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German Exports Soar above One Trillion Euros


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My former journalism teacher owns a Peugeot 205. I can tell it was built in France because of the quality and the fact that the indicator wiring is principally on the left hand side of the car (the passenger side in NZ).

I can usually tell a Peugeot because of the wiring too. The Electrics break down all the time lol

No seriously my step father seems to love them and buys one after the other. He has a monumental amount of trouble with them, my mother has big arguments as they do big miles and she doesn't think they are reliable enough for the Job. His latest, a 606 has never worked properly since it left the factory. The general quality is pretty rubbish throughout and the parts are silly money.

I am really shocked the yanks would put up with all the non-sense from them, it takes an age to get the parts from France to England I can't imagine what it must be like in the US.

I know I haven't been to the states in about 4 years, but I have been dozens of times in the last 15 years and cannot really recall seeing any. I don't think American cars are as bad as some say either, I always have hire cars out there and whilst not being the most exciting drive they are generally very comfortable and I have never had problems. Couple of Chrysler Sebings I have had lasted more than 6 months trouble free without being returned to the hire company once.

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I can usually tell a Peugeot because of the wiring too. The Electrics break down all the time lol

No seriously my step father seems to love them and buys one after the other. He has a monumental amount of trouble with them, my mother has big arguments as they do big miles and she doesn't think they are reliable enough for the Job. His latest, a 606 has never worked properly since it left the factory. The general quality is pretty rubbish throughout and the parts are silly money.

I am really shocked the yanks would put up with all the non-sense from them, it takes an age to get the parts from France to England I can't imagine what it must be like in the US.

I know I haven't been to the states in about 4 years, but I have been dozens of times in the last 15 years and cannot really recall seeing any. I don't think American cars are as bad as some say either, I always have hire cars out there and whilst not being the most exciting drive they are generally very comfortable and I have never had problems. Couple of Chrysler Sebings I have had lasted more than 6 months trouble free without being returned to the hire company once.

I have had two Peugeots and would never buy another one. They both failed with the same things after about 100K miles - built in redundancy par excellance. Parts were always expensive and a bugger to come by.

The Toyotos and VW's I have had have both been infinitely more reliable. My current Golf is up at 200K with no signs of dying any time soon (and I run it on veg oil which is a hard life).

Peugeots have a good reputation because they handle well and are a real pleasure to drive. If you replace from new at 3-5yrs you never hit the reliability wall so there is always a constant supply onto the second hand market. All french cars have very poor reliability records in the UK (in the bottom five of all manufactures), German cars come near the top behind the Japanese. I love my VW Golf - built like a tank and it has never let me down - I can well understand why people become life long fans.

As has been pointed out - you never ever see an American built car on the roads of Europe (apart from the occasional stretch Limo or Hummer). That has got to tell you something about there desirability to anyone but Americans.

Br Cornelius

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As has been pointed out - you never ever see an American built car on the roads of Europe (apart from the occasional stretch Limo or Hummer). That has got to tell you something about there desirability to anyone but Americans.

Br Cornelius

Not entirely true. I went to France a couple of years ago and saw quite a few American built cars, along the lines of old ones and some newer models. In NZ, you can buy Chryslers and Dodges strait from the dealership as well as Cadillacs. The 300C and Voyager are realitvely common where I live.

In saying that though, I would never own anything American. Not up to what I consider as decent build quality.

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Not entirely true. I went to France a couple of years ago and saw quite a few American built cars, along the lines of old ones and some newer models. In NZ, you can buy Chryslers and Dodges strait from the dealership as well as Cadillacs. The 300C and Voyager are realitvely common where I live.

In saying that though, I would never own anything American. Not up to what I consider as decent build quality.

Top Gear did a review of one of the big American Ford pickups and said that despite it meeting all their he-man needs, it was a bit pathetic that they couldn't get the dash parts to line up and stay down when pulled at.

I suppose been the king of the world makes you complacent about these kinds of things.

America been to busy making funny money to care about actually producing anything - and thats why everythings blown up in their faces. The same can be said for the UK that now only produces Japanese cars under licence. Sad really.

Br Cornelius

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Not entirely true. I went to France a couple of years ago and saw quite a few American built cars, along the lines of old ones and some newer models. In NZ, you can buy Chryslers and Dodges strait from the dealership as well as Cadillacs. The 300C and Voyager are realitvely common where I live.

In saying that though, I would never own anything American. Not up to what I consider as decent build quality.

While it is true that you can buy American cars in Europe (including France) US build cars are not even on the 2010 top twenty sales list (Ford refers to Ford Europe, belongs to Ford but build completely different cars than in the US.., mostly same name but a size smaller and more technically advanced):

  1. Volkswagen (VW) ... 1,541,279 ... 11.2 ... -6.6
  2. Renault ... 1,147,486 ... 8.3 ... +3.4
  3. Ford ... 1,109,588 ... 8.0 ... -13.3
  4. Opel / Vauxhall (GM) ... 1,006,832 ... 7.3 ... -5.5
  5. Peugeot (PSA) ... 1,005,916 ... 7.3 ... -0.4
  6. Citroen (PSA) ... 838,147 ... 6.1 ... -4.5
  7. Fiat ... 825,376 ... 6.0 ... -18.8
  8. Audi (VW)... 623,536 ... 4.5 ... +1.7
  9. BMW ... 609,196 ... 4.4 ... +6.5
  10. Mercedes (Daimler) ... 586,146 ... 4.3 ... -0.1
  11. Toyota ... 582,457 ... 4. 2 ... -16.5
  12. Skoda (VW) ... 468,034 ... 3.4 ... -3.2
  13. Nissan ... 402,654 ... 2.9 ... +9.7
  14. Hyundai ... 358,284 ... 2.6 ... +4.7
  15. Seat (VW) ... 301,931 ... 2.2 ... -4.7
  16. Dacia (Renault) ... 262,777 ... 1.9 ... +10.2
  17. Kia ... 262,627 ... 1.9 ... +4.5
  18. Volvo ... 230,307 ... 1.7 ... +12.6
  19. Suzuki ... 195,458 ... 1.4 ... -21.7
  20. Honda ... 187,408 ... 1.4 ... -23.4

Read more at Suite101: Top 20 Best-Selling Car Manufacturers and Brands in Europe, 2010 | Suite101.com http://henk-bekker.suite101.com/top-20-best-selling-car-manufacturers-and-brands-in-europe-2010-a334475#ixzz1fQ9U2au1

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While it is true that you can buy American cars in Europe (including France) US build cars are not even on the 2010 top twenty sales list (Ford refers to Ford Europe, belongs to Ford but build completely different cars than in the US.., mostly same name but a size smaller and more technically advanced):

  1. Volkswagen (VW) ... 1,541,279 ... 11.2 ... -6.6
  2. Renault ... 1,147,486 ... 8.3 ... +3.4
  3. Ford ... 1,109,588 ... 8.0 ... -13.3
  4. Opel / Vauxhall (GM) ... 1,006,832 ... 7.3 ... -5.5
  5. Peugeot (PSA) ... 1,005,916 ... 7.3 ... -0.4
  6. Citroen (PSA) ... 838,147 ... 6.1 ... -4.5
  7. Fiat ... 825,376 ... 6.0 ... -18.8
  8. Audi (VW)... 623,536 ... 4.5 ... +1.7
  9. BMW ... 609,196 ... 4.4 ... +6.5
  10. Mercedes (Daimler) ... 586,146 ... 4.3 ... -0.1
  11. Toyota ... 582,457 ... 4. 2 ... -16.5
  12. Skoda (VW) ... 468,034 ... 3.4 ... -3.2
  13. Nissan ... 402,654 ... 2.9 ... +9.7
  14. Hyundai ... 358,284 ... 2.6 ... +4.7
  15. Seat (VW) ... 301,931 ... 2.2 ... -4.7
  16. Dacia (Renault) ... 262,777 ... 1.9 ... +10.2
  17. Kia ... 262,627 ... 1.9 ... +4.5
  18. Volvo ... 230,307 ... 1.7 ... +12.6
  19. Suzuki ... 195,458 ... 1.4 ... -21.7
  20. Honda ... 187,408 ... 1.4 ... -23.4

Read more at Suite101: Top 20 Best-Selling Car Manufacturers and Brands in Europe, 2010 | Suite101.com http://henk-bekker.suite101.com/top-20-best-selling-car-manufacturers-and-brands-in-europe-2010-a334475#ixzz1fQ9U2au1

Ford came in at number 3 for best selling brands in Europe an for number of cars sold GM came in at 4 and Ford came in at 5. I don't think thats bad for a U.S, company to do in Europe.

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Ford came in at number 3 for best selling brands in Europe an for number of cars sold GM came in at 4 and Ford came in at 5. I don't think thats bad for a U.S, company to do in Europe.

Yes but this is Ford Europe. Totally different kettle of fish to the Ford in the US. It actually licences its name out to different parts of the world in order for their cars to be produced. Ford do Brasil and Ford Australia are good examples.

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Ford came in at number 3 for best selling brands in Europe an for number of cars sold GM came in at 4 and Ford came in at 5. I don't think thats bad for a U.S, company to do in Europe.

The point we were discussing is whether US products, which is not the same as US companies abroad (because that does not produce anything for the US, except money for that company and a few cents in taxes) have a chance on the market. In fact Ford Europe was doing OK when Ford USA was about too go off the cliff a few years back. General Motors USA had been living off General Motors Europe before almost bankrupting GM Europe by drawing off its R&D and investment capital and going bankrupt itself (having the dishonor of being bailed out by 4 governments).

Take away some parts of GE, Boeing and Caterpillar and there is nothing industrial from the US that anybody wants abroad, which is why the US had a negative pay balance for 40 years. (Well maybe Harley Davidson counts too...but that would not make a visible dent in the balance).

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Yes but this is Ford Europe. Totally different kettle of fish to the Ford in the US. It actually licences its name out to different parts of the world in order for their cars to be produced. Ford do Brasil and Ford Australia are good examples.

They also hold a blocking minority in all those firms.

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The point we were discussing is whether US products, which is not the same as US companies abroad (because that does not produce anything for the US, except money for that company and a few cents in taxes) have a chance on the market. In fact Ford Europe was doing OK when Ford USA was about too go off the cliff a few years back. General Motors USA had been living off General Motors Europe before almost bankrupting GM Europe by drawing off its R&D and investment capital and going bankrupt itself (having the dishonor of being bailed out by 4 governments).

Under the list of Top 20 Best-Selling Car Manufacturers in Europe in 2010, Ford came in at 3 then why even use that chart? we have discussed this on another thread already if wr look at BMW, Voltswagon and Toyota many of those companies have factories here, if your looking at what cars are made in this country and are sold in Europe, no kidding it will be a low number, these companies deal with North America. thats a big market.

Take away some parts of GE, Boeing and Caterpillar and there is nothing industrial from the US that anybody wants abroad, which is why the US had a negative pay balance for 40 years. (Well maybe Harley Davidson counts too...but that would not make a visible dent in the balance).

Thats like saying take away the Rolls Royce or Pratt & Whitney engines that Airbus uses and claim the French make a jet that no one wants. the U.S. is the 3rd largest exporter in the world.

I don't really look at "pay balance" but rather trade surplus or deficit. we have a deficit because many things we cant build, mine and harvest fast enough to keep up with demand so we look to Canada and Mexico.

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Under the list of Top 20 Best-Selling Car Manufacturers in Europe in 2010, Ford came in at 3 then why even use that chart? we have discussed this on another thread already if wr look at BMW, Voltswagon and Toyota many of those companies have factories here, if your looking at what cars are made in this country and are sold in Europe, no kidding it will be a low number, these companies deal with North America. thats a big market.

Thats like saying take away the Rolls Royce or Pratt & Whitney engines that Airbus uses and claim the French make a jet that no one wants. the U.S. is the 3rd largest exporter in the world.

I don't really look at "pay balance" but rather trade surplus or deficit. we have a deficit because many things we cant build, mine and harvest fast enough to keep up with demand so we look to Canada and Mexico.

Again, Ford is a company that uses the same name, but is not Ford USA, Ford of Europe GmbH is the European subsidiary of Ford Motor Company incorporated in Germany. That company does nothing for US exports nor for the balance of pay nor does it create any jobs in the US. Second, they might use the same names for their cars (Escort, Fiesta, etc) but those cars are not the same models as in the US, they are developed specifically for the European market needs (in fact about 30% they sell is Diesel compacts, in the US they sell none).

So, while it has a Ford logo on the hood, a European Ford is a European product, just like the Mercedes M type is an American product. And yes, the US is the third largest exporter but at the same time, with a large difference to the second place, it is also the largest importer. And that is the sustainability problem.

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To add to what questionmark said, a lot of Ford Europe's products are also developed and produced in Europe. Ford has a factory in Ghent in Belgium for example, where they produce the Ford Fiesta. Ford Europe's chief car testing facility is also in Belguim as the roads in Europe are significantly different to the roads in the US and thus require different development. Not only that, but the size of some Ford US products would be impractical in Europe.

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OK... time to 'fess up". My own car is a Chrysler Sebring 2.7 LX (2002, older than Methuselah!!) but I wouldnt give it up for anything.

It is elegant to look at, incredibly comfortable (after the suspension was "hardened" up a bit), never let me down (due to regular servicing), and a credit to USA car - build. OK, I know I have been lucky (obviously not built on a monday or friday).

I know I will have to trade up this year, the new Chryslers are just too gross, so will probably opt for a Porsche Cayenne, nothing flashy, but good for a small family + dog.

The Sebring will be kept and maintained for those "nostalgic" trips...

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To add to what questionmark said, a lot of Ford Europe's products are also developed and produced in Europe. Ford has a factory in Ghent in Belgium for example, where they produce the Ford Fiesta.

I just found it odd that questionmark would use a list that doesn't tell you that.

Ford Europe's chief car testing facility is also in Belguim as the roads in Europe are significantly different to the roads in the US and thus require different development. Not only that, but the size of some Ford US products would be impractical in Europe.

That right, the European market isn't the same as the North American market. from what I gather, Europeans demand a smaller car with better MPG because of the costs of fuel as apposed to North America. I think cars like Mustangs, Camaros, Corvetts and SUV's do much better in the North. GM and Ford needed to make a car for India for almost the same reasons.

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OK... time to 'fess up". My own car is a Chrysler Sebring 2.7 LX (2002, older than Methuselah!!) but I wouldnt give it up for anything.

It is elegant to look at, incredibly comfortable (after the suspension was "hardened" up a bit), never let me down (due to regular servicing), and a credit to USA car - build. OK, I know I have been lucky (obviously not built on a monday or friday).

I know I will have to trade up this year, the new Chryslers are just too gross, so will probably opt for a Porsche Cayenne, nothing flashy, but good for a small family + dog.

The Sebring will be kept and maintained for those "nostalgic" trips...

Well, I guess I drive the last honest 4WD in the world: Lada Niva. But here you need something rustic like that. To get to town I have to cross two rivers... and in rainy season they even have water.

And yes, 60 MPG is an illusion with that thing (US made GM engine)... it is more like 20 MPG. But still better than the Jeep I drove before that.

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I just found it odd that questionmark would use a list that doesn't tell you that.

Anyone with a remote grasp on the global automotive industry would be able to tell you that.

That right, the European market isn't the same as the North American market. from what I gather, Europeans demand a smaller car with better MPG because of the costs of fuel as apposed to North America. I think cars like Mustangs, Camaros, Corvetts and SUV's do much better in the North. GM and Ford needed to make a car for India for almost the same reasons.

Cars are smaller in Europe because the roads are narrower, especially in cities. That and it's cheaper to buy European made cars because they don't have the same distances to travel.

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Anyone with a remote grasp on the global automotive industry would be able to tell you that.

Cars are smaller in Europe because the roads are narrower, especially in cities. That and it's cheaper to buy European made cars because they don't have the same distances to travel.

And because we have always paid 4 times the gas price of the US in Europe. Right now we are at $9 a gallon normal on average.

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Anyone with a remote grasp on the global automotive industry would be able to tell you that.

LOL me and the article, right?

Cars are smaller in Europe because the roads are narrower, especially in cities. That and it's cheaper to buy European made cars because they don't have the same distances to travel.

I would imagine paying $9 a gallon would also have an impact, wouldn't you agree? unlike the $3 that I'm paying. I only see oil prices going higher especially with all the problems in the Eurozone.

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LOL me and the article, right?

I would imagine paying $9 a gallon would also have an impact, wouldn't you agree? unlike the $3 that I'm paying. I only see oil prices going higher especially with all the problems in the Eurozone.

There is a correlation between Euro and oil price, but to the contrary you expect: Euro goes down and so does oil.

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There is a correlation between Euro and oil price, but to the contrary you expect: Euro goes down and so does oil.

So you must be paying much more in taxes then.

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So you must be paying much more in taxes then.

We always have, and in Europe the highest portion taxed were always consumer taxes (i.e. sales, gas, booze and so on). That way you could always decide on how much you wanted to pay on top of your 24-40% (income)... somehow they have to get 40% of GDP for the government to spend.

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