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The Silver Thong

Obama has failed the US

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The Silver Thong

I was an Obama fan but that has faded fast and a second term will spell disaster. There is but one canidate and I do not care about his party but his policy. Is this the only man that can possibly save the Empire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V36MT5lAMrc&feature=related

Vote for this man if you want a life line.

Edited by The Silver Thong

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Habitat

Wot, no Hillary ? :huh:

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The Silver Thong

Wot, no Hillary ? :huh:

Hillary was but a tool used by Obama`s puppet masters to get the women vote. The only reason Obama won was because Bush was so bad.

Dr. Paul is by far the clear choice in 2012. Obama will win another term if any but Dr. Paul runs against him. The republicans-consevatives have no other choice imo. Some here know me as a liberal but I assure you I do not vote party nor would I if I were able to vote in the US.

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Doctor_Strangelove

I like a few of his ideas, but his leniency towards libertarianism raises too many red flags. Government intervention is necessary to protect the rights of the working class, and that's something I wouldn't risk just because the man has a few progressive views on things like demilitarization. Any politician who is a libertarian is far too radical for me to stomach.

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Mr_Snstr

I like a few of his ideas, but his leniency towards libertarianism raises too many red flags. Government intervention is necessary to protect the rights of the working class, and that's something I wouldn't risk just because the man has a few progressive views on things like demilitarization. Any politician who is a libertarian is far too radical for me to stomach.

What rights is the "working class" entitled to exactly? The right to get payed for work done and any other facets to the particular employee/employer agreement; and full entitlement of that pay is the most important; and perhaps the only right IMO. All other possible "working class rights" are secondary to having full rights to your own earnings; diminishing that is not protecting working class rights. Besides that; giving more "rights" to the "working class" can only be done by diminishing employer rights; disturbing the balance between the two is always detrimental to the employee(s).

Edited by Mr_Snstr

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The Silver Thong

I like a few of his ideas, but his leniency towards libertarianism raises too many red flags. Government intervention is necessary to protect the rights of the working class, and that's something I wouldn't risk just because the man has a few progressive views on things like demilitarization. Any politician who is a libertarian is far too radical for me to stomach.

So the government is in the right to protect the bankers rights and those of large car makers but unless you fall under the corprat umbrella your fubard. The government should have allowed every single non government agency go through the same proccess. Let them fail and have private industry pick up from there.

The wellfare state people blaim on the poor is because the rich where bailed out. It is far cheaper feeding the poor then deffending the rich. Demalitazation will come as soon as the protests from the 60`s due to Veitnam proved to be the end of the war. Desention at home is the reason schitt gets done.

If radical is to much to stomach then all is lost as being complaciant does nothing and only adds to why these protests will only get more violent. In the US losing your iphone is on par as losing your right to have food, in other nations while the so called elected eat like fat pigs the ones not eating will soon storm the gates.

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Doctor_Strangelove

What rights is the "working class" entitled to exactly? The right to get payed for work done and any other facets to the particular employee/employer agreement; and full entitlement of that pay is the most important; and perhaps the only right IMO. All other possible "working class rights" are secondary to having full rights to your own earnings; diminishing that is not protecting working class rights. Besides that giving more "rights" to the "working class" can only be done by diminishing employer rights; taking rights from one group and giving them to another does not create stability or sustainability.

Working rights can range from everything between minimum wage and safe work conditions to vacation days. If you take away all intervention from the free market, then anyone who lives off of a paycheck is at the mercy of the employer. It's not a matter of self entitlement, it's a matter of there has to be some sort of authority to keep working conditions from becoming unbearable as a result of one individual trying to save money. There is a balance between full government control of industry and full free market, and when such balance is abandoned to one side of the specter, things go bad. I honestly believe that libertarianism could potentially be as dangerous as communism.

Contrary to neo-conservative and libertarian beliefs, not everyone who is a progressive liberal is one because they believe in a socialist, nanny state where cultural Marxism and unwarranted self entitlement run rampant.

Edited by Doctor_Strangelove

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The Silver Thong

Working rights can range from everything between minimum wage and safe work conditions to vacation days. If you take away all intervention from the free market, then anyone who lives off of a paycheck is at the mercy of the employer. It's not a matter of self entitlement, it's a matter of there has to be some sort of authority to keep working conditions from becoming unbearable as a result of one individual trying to save money. There is a balance between full government control of industry and full free market, and when such balance is abandoned to one side of the specter, things go bad. I honestly believe that libertarianism could potentially be as dangerous as communism.

Contrary to neo-conservative and libertarian beliefs, not everyone who is a progressive liberal is one because they believe in a socialist, nanny state where cultural Marxism and unwarranted self entitlement run rampant.

The laws are set by the people elected to represent them. We see this failing and we are doing nothing but giving government more power to dictate to private industry. I have mixed feelings as I live in Alberta Canada and am told every day I should be lucky to live here because of the oil. It`s a lie, I see no benifit. Zero none and I am getting p***ed that I have to keep paying more for crap I don`t need.

Alberta oil helping Albertains is a lie, it`s helping a select few that make there already comfy lives more comfy. I am starting to get more and more p***ed at my local goverment that lies to me every damn day sayonh our oil will be a benifit. To who I have to ask. Sure as schitt not me.

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Doctor_Strangelove

The laws are set by the people elected to represent them. We see this failing and we are doing nothing but giving government more power to dictate to private industry. I have mixed feelings as I live in Alberta Canada and am told every day I should be lucky to live here because of the oil. It`s a lie, I see no benifit. Zero none and I am getting p***ed that I have to keep paying more for crap I don`t need.

Alberta oil helping Albertains is a lie, it`s helping a select few that make there already comfy lives more comfy. I am starting to get more and more p***ed at my local goverment that lies to me every damn day sayonh our oil will be a benifit. To who I have to ask. Sure as schitt not me.

Such a problem isn't going to be solved by giving more power to private companies, though. Attempts at regulating the oil and gas industry in Alberta have largely been unsuccessful, but going the opposite route wouldn't be a solution either. I shudder at what would happen to the environment if the private sector was left to it's own devices, let alone what would happen to worker's rights. 80 hour work weeks are already common enough in the oil patch.

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The Silver Thong

Such a problem isn't going to be solved by giving more power to private companies, though. Attempts at regulating the oil and gas industry in Alberta have largely been unsuccessful, but going the opposite route wouldn't be a solution either. I shudder at what would happen to the environment if the private sector was left to it's own devices, let alone what would happen to worker's rights. 80 hour work weeks are already common enough in the oil patch.

So you don`t get the fact that private industry controls the political system. Private industry can no longer control government. Governements negotiates with private industy allowing private industry to control governments. Hence the vote becaomes usless. The government needs to establish laws and inforce them by the people. Not have private companies dictate law to goverment that people think they elected.

No poltician gets to power with out corprate support today, and that in itself takes away the private vote makeing democracy a joke.

When it costs half a billion dollars to run for President we can clearly see that it was not the average voter that got them there.

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Mr_Snstr

Working rights can range from everything between minimum wage and safe work conditions to vacation days. If you take away all intervention from the free market, then anyone who lives off of a paycheck is at the mercy of the employer. It's not a matter of self entitlement, it's a matter of there has to be some sort of authority to keep working conditions from becoming unbearable as a result of one individual trying to save money. There is a balance between full government control of industry and full free market, and when such balance is abandoned to one side of the specter, things go bad. I honestly believe that libertarianism could potentially be as dangerous as communism.

Contrary to neo-conservative and libertarian beliefs, not everyone who is a progressive liberal is one because they believe in a socialist, nanny state where cultural Marxism and unwarranted self entitlement run rampant.

Minimum wage may do well to ease the effects of poverty on the lowest percentage of workers on the short term. But the long term effect is an overall increase in cost of living for everyone(as almost every product/service relies in part on minimum wage labor). Thus being a wash to the lowest percentage; and a detriment to everyone else.

As far as fair living wage, which minimum wage does nothing to address or regulate; it has self regulated just fine this whole time. The biggest problem we're facing now is not wages being too low; but cost of living being too high and increasing too fast.

As far as safe work conditions go I imagine we'd agree more on that. There needs to be systems of liability and insurance in place. Safe working conditions should always be in the employers best interest to create; you do this by ensuring employees can hold their employers liable when they don't.

If you're living from paycheck to paycheck you're already at the mercy of your employer, and/or at the mercy of your own government. I'd rather have people at the mercy of their employer than at the mercy of their government. Living within you're means is something we all have to eventually learn to do; until you do, you'll always be at the mercy of others.

You didn't comment on having full rights on your own earnings as being the most important workers right.

I wasn't using the word "entitled" as a sort of jab or anything BTW. Judging by your response I feel you took it that way. I also generally give little weight to political labels.

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preacherman76

I like a few of his ideas, but his leniency towards libertarianism raises too many red flags. Government intervention is necessary to protect the rights of the working class, and that's something I wouldn't risk just because the man has a few progressive views on things like demilitarization. Any politician who is a libertarian is far too radical for me to stomach.

I find it amazing that people wont vote for Dr Paul cause of policies he has no power to implement. Especialy considering the fact that he is the only man in our entire government who has acuritly predicted everything we have seen over the last 3 years. And is the only man with a plan to reverse the criminal policies this government has implement, and plan to further implement. Its like spending your last few seconds worrying about about a kid who might trip over a stone, as you are standing on a rail road track seconds away from being hit by a train.

Silver, you just moved up about 10 notches in my book. :tu:

Edited by preacherman76

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TheBoar

I was an Obama fan but that has faded fast and a second term will spell disaster. There is but one canidate and I do not care about his party but his policy. Is this the only man that can possibly save the Empire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V36MT5lAMrc&feature=related

Vote for this man if you want a life line.

i didnt no america was an empire :s?

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Cute_Gingrich

Minimum wage may do well to ease the effects of poverty on the lowest percentage of workers on the short term. But the long term effect is an overall increase in cost of living for everyone(as almost every product/service relies in part on minimum wage labor). Thus being a wash to the lowest percentage; and a detriment to everyone else.

The US minimum wage is 7.25$ with 5% of workers at or below this level: http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2009.htm

For someone who doesn't get tips, this is far to low for anyone in the west to live comfortably on, and everyone who works full-time should be guaranteed comfortable living wages within reason. If increasing minimum wage increases cost of products and services, then so be it, you shouldn't be living cheap on the exploitation of your countrymen.

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preacherman76

i didnt no america was an empire :s?

We have hundreds of military bases all over the world. Our president single handedly now wages wars with countries with no congressioonal aproval. Yes America is a empire.

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preacherman76

The US minimum wage is 7.25$ with 5% of workers at or below this level: http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2009.htm

For someone who doesn't get tips, this is far to low for anyone in the west to live comfortably on, and everyone who works full-time should be guaranteed comfortable living wages within reason. If increasing minimum wage increases cost of products and services, then so be it, you shouldn't be living cheap on the exploitation of your countrymen.

The government takes on average 40% of peoples income through a wide range of taxes. Id start with eliminating that version of modern day slavery, before I worried about a fair wage the government is going to take from you anyway. Id also worry more about moves the government has made to devalue our dollar by 97% since the federal reserve act was signed. Cause there will be no such thing as a fair wage, when the money they give you isnt worth anything. People think the governemnt has protected people using minimum wage laws. When in fact they are directly responcible for the poverty levels in this country. And lets not even get into the unfair trade agreements our government has screwed us with, that has moved millions our our manufactoring jobs overs seas.

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Cute_Gingrich

People think the governemnt has protected people using minimum wage laws. When in fact they are directly responcible for the poverty levels in this country.

How are they responsible for the poverty levels?

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preacherman76

How are they responsible for the poverty levels?

How much time to do have?

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Cute_Gingrich

How much time to do have?

Enough time to read about 2 A4 pages worth of text. If you have an article or study at that size which gets to the core of the issue, I would be thrilled.

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preacherman76

Enough time to read about 2 A4 pages worth of text. If you have an article or study at that size which gets to the core of the issue, I would be thrilled.

Well we can start with what Ive already posted at the top of this page. Which part do you object to?

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Cute_Gingrich

I reread your post. Are you talking about Government being responsible for the poverty? I though you were talking about minimum wage being responsible. In that case, nevermind.

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questionmark

I was an Obama fan but that has faded fast and a second term will spell disaster. There is but one canidate and I do not care about his party but his policy. Is this the only man that can possibly save the Empire.

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Vote for this man if you want a life line.

I am afraid that it will not be a lifeline, Ron Paul is aiming at dissolving the empire in loosely organized states with own currency and veto over the Federal State. That would be the American version of the EU.

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The Silver Thong

I am afraid that it will not be a lifeline, Ron Paul is aiming at dissolving the empire in loosely organized states with own currency and veto over the Federal State. That would be the American version of the EU.

How would pulling out of the middle east and shutting down bases around the world in order to save itself create an EU style government. The US needs to say it`s sorry`s we tried but failed and come home. Time to take care of the family, lick the wounds and move on with one agenda. America first. Can`t help anyone if your in the hospital right.

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The Silver Thong

How are they responsible for the poverty levels?

By bailing out private industry with tax payers dollars. The middle class is taxed beyond there means while corporations rep what the little guy is forced to pay. The government has no right using your money to bail out private business nor fund un constitutional wars. The people need a strong say in what there taxs are actually used for. When the middle class shrinks the poverty levels rise. Thats when intitlements start and that should be the last thing any nation wants. Be keeping a strong middle class and closing the gap between rich and poor a society can only do better.

In the past the rich were taxed much higher then the middle class and things were great. How and why did that change. By taxing the super rich does that make them poor, no. When the wealthy pay 15 percent and the middle class pay 40 percent we have a problem. The rich have bought the government around the world allowing for such to happen.

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Fluffybunny

By bailing out private industry with tax payers dollars. The middle class is taxed beyond there means while corporations rep what the little guy is forced to pay. The government has no right using your money to bail out private business nor fund un constitutional wars. The people need a strong say in what there taxs are actually used for. When the middle class shrinks the poverty levels rise. Thats when intitlements start and that should be the last thing any nation wants. Be keeping a strong middle class and closing the gap between rich and poor a society can only do better.

In the past the rich were taxed much higher then the middle class and things were great. How and why did that change. By taxing the super rich does that make them poor, no. When the wealthy pay 15 percent and the middle class pay 40 percent we have a problem. The rich have bought the government around the world allowing for such to happen.

Yep, you are absolutely correct. If they government doesn't change things soon we may end up in a financial position we cannot recover from. We are close to that now.

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