Britain Suffers as a Bystander to Eurocrisis

[questionmark]

LONDON — No matter what happens at the European summit meeting on the euro in Brussels that begins Thursday, Britain is sure to lose.

There is looming recognition at 10 Downing Street that if the euro falls, Britain will sink along with everyone else.But if Europe manages to pull itself together by forging closer unity among the 17 countries that use the euro, then Britain faces being ever more marginalized in decisions on the Continent.

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[Paracelse]

Germany has a real production activity that supports it's country very well and creates the value of the Euro. The rest of EU either the Euro zone or not, suffer from the strength of German economy. Most of EU today has a service economy which is IMHO a fake economy.

[keithisco]

I think it is becoming clearer (almost by the day) that the Eurozone countries will be spearheading a New European co-operation Pact, possibly even a Treaty within the EU,

This will lead, inevitably IMO, to a Federated Eurozone of willing participants. The "outsiders", those that have rejected joining the Euorzone, AND not committed to a European future will be given short - shrift and possibly excluded entirely from EU decision - making through the new majority voting principle.

For myself, as a committed European (no surprise there), I welcome the day when the "Whingeing Poms" are sent packing.

[skookum]

I think it is becoming clearer (almost by the day) that the Eurozone countries will be spearheading a New European co-operation Pact, possibly even a Treaty within the EU,

This will lead, inevitably IMO, to a Federated Eurozone of willing participants. The "outsiders", those that have rejected joining the Euorzone, AND not committed to a European future will be given short - shrift and possibly excluded entirely from EU decision - making through the new majority voting principle.

For myself, as a committed European (no surprise there), I welcome the day when the "Whingeing Poms" are sent packing.

I quite agree, for the UK get off this sinking ship would make me sleep far easier.

[keithisco]

I quite agree, for the UK get off this sinking ship would make me sleep far easier.

It most definitely IS sinking for you, but you need some imagination to see just how important it will become

..."Therein lies the rub".. (Will Shakespeare)

A truly united European Monetary System and Federated Political area will leave the UK as a wan outsider, trying to hold onto world influence as a puppet of the USA (the song "Puppet on a String" comes to mind) , but even that is not guaranteed, is it? If you ever loose the dominance that is the UK Invisibles, you will really suffer - much worse than any of the so-called PIIGS in the EU, because you will have nobody to bail you out.

Just IMHO

[skookum]

It most definitely IS sinking for you, but you need some imagination to see just how important it will become

..."Therein lies the rub".. (Will Shakespeare)

A truly united European Monetary System and Federated Political area will leave the UK as a wan outsider, trying to hold onto world influence as a puppet of the USA (the song "Puppet on a String" comes to mind) , but even that is not guaranteed, is it? If you ever loose the dominance that is the UK Invisibles, you will really suffer - much worse than any of the so-called PIIGS in the EU, because you will have nobody to bail you out.

Just IMHO

If your happy to give up sovereignty then I am happy for you too. I see your location is Madrid, however I see that the only ones pulling the strings in Europe are France and Germany. You call the UK the bystander!!

LOL how hypocritical.

[questionmark]

If your happy to give up sovereignty then I am happy for you too. I see your location is Madrid, however I see that the only ones pulling the strings in Europe are France and Germany. You call the UK the bystander!!

LOL how hypocritical.

That is mostly, as recognized by all, that only France and Germany have the weight to pull anything at all. And it is not like Britain has not been invited into the team multiple times, it is just that Britain liked the role of being "in the team" while pretending to be on the sidelines. Well, looks like they got to be on the sidelines now. That is: can say whatever it wants about its future, the decisions are taken by others.

[keithisco]

If your happy to give up sovereignty then I am happy for you too. I see your location is Madrid, however I see that the only ones pulling the strings in Europe are France and Germany. You call the UK the bystander!!

LOL how hypocritical.

No hypocrisy, Spain is, and alwways has been, on the side of European integration. Spain is, of course, in the Eurozone as well and we see this as the opportunity in a millenium. Spain will not be asking for huge sums of money to help it, we just do not need it. We could privatise such companies as Telefonica. or RENFE and all debt would be cleared - that is more than can be said for the UK. What do you have left to sell???

The whole idea of "Sovereignty " is just a Political construct, it means nothing in the wider world - you have no empire to rely on, members of the Commonwealth are out-performing you - why should anyone take you seriously???

Spain is integral to the European Federal project for our natural resources, so I disagree with your analysis - we are not a by-stander, Bi and Tri - lateral talks occur between Spain and germany / France on a monthly basis, when was the last time that the UK was invited to such talks? Never, is the correct answer - you sit on the outside, are not important, are impotent in the EU, and - to be completely honest - an embarassment to us all.

Of course your own Politicians do not have what it takes to actually force a vote on membership - in the end it doesnt matter, you will be left alone to your "Island mentality" as the world passes you by... Good luck with that!!

Edited December 8, 2011 by keithisco

[Mr Right Wing]

No hypocrisy, Spain is, and alwways has been, on the side of European integration. Spain is, of course, in the Eurozone as well and we see this as the opportunity in a millenium. Spain will not be asking for huge sums of money to help it, we just do not need it. We could privatise such companies as Telefonica. or RENFE and all debt would be cleared - that is more than can be said for the UK. What do you have left to sell???

The whole idea of "Sovereignty " is just a Political construct, it means nothing in the wider world - you have no empire to rely on, members of the Commonwealth are out-performing you - why should anyone take you seriously???

Spain is integral to the European Federal project for our natural resources, so I disagree with your analysis - we are not a by-stander, Bi and Tri - lateral talks occur between Spain and germany / France on a monthly basis, when was the last time that the UK was invited to such talks? Never, is the correct answer - you sit on the outside, are not important, are impotent in the EU, and - to be completely honest - an embarassment to us all.

Of course your own Politicians do not have what it takes to actually force a vote on membership - in the end it doesnt matter, you will be left alone to your "Island mentality" as the world passes you by... Good luck with that!!

Uk debt isnt a problem because we can inflate it away by printing money but you guys in the EU cant (yet).

[keithisco]

Uk debt isnt a problem because we can inflate it away by printing money but you guys in the EU cant (yet).

Also known as Quantitative Easing - the more you print, the less value it has...causing monetary deflation, and internal inflation - it is a road to nowhere.

[skookum]

You have no choice but to accept what Germany and France say. The meetings are between Merkel and Sarkozy. The Southern Europeans are in a situation to accept what is said or face bankruptcy. Do you truly believe that Spain, Italy or Greece could change the financial decisions being made?

The deal for you guys will be beneficial which is great, the only thing more humiliating than being bailed out is becoming bankrupt which hopefully will be avoided.

Strange how I can be wish you a positive future but you can only refer to the UK with utter contempt.

[itsnotoutthere]

You have no choice but to accept what Germany and France say. The meetings are between Merkel and Sarkozy. The Southern Europeans are in a situation to accept what is said or face bankruptcy. Do you truly believe that Spain, Italy or Greece could change the financial decisions being made?

The deal for you guys will be beneficial which is great, the only thing more humiliating than being bailed out is becoming bankrupt which hopefully will be avoided.

Strange how I can be wish you a positive future but you can only refer to the UK with utter contempt.

Well that is liberal socialist way.

[Guest]

You have no choice but to accept what Germany and France say. The meetings are between Merkel and Sarkozy. The Southern Europeans are in a situation to accept what is said or face bankruptcy. Do you truly believe that Spain, Italy or Greece could change the financial decisions being made?

The deal for you guys will be beneficial which is great, the only thing more humiliating than being bailed out is becoming bankrupt which hopefully will be avoided.

Strange how I can be wish you a positive future but you can only refer to the UK with utter contempt.

The UK has placed itself in a position where if it jumps it is lost, if it stays on the sidelines it has to face at least a decade of austerity with no plan as to how to rebuild an economy based purely on funny money and property. Its a dead duck, looking for excuses for its woos and its total inability to manage its economy for the good of its citizens - rather than a few wealthy bankers in London. Its the independence to screw its population for every last penny that can be got out of them which the British politicians want to preserve by marginalising themselves in their main trading block. Your welcome to your rosy future shouting at Europe about all the imagined wrongs it has done to the honest Brit.

Wake up suckers.

Br Cornelius

[itsnotoutthere]

The UK has placed itself in a position where if it jumps it is lost, if it stays on the sidelines it has to face at least a decade of austerity with no plan as to how to rebuild an economy based purely on funny money and property. Its a dead duck, looking for excuses for its woos and its total inability to manage its economy for the good of its citizens - rather than a few wealthy bankers in London. Its the independence to screw its population for every last penny that can be got out of them which the British politicians want to preserve by marginalising themselves in their main trading block. Your welcome to your rosy future shouting at Europe about all the imagined wrongs it has done to the honest Brit.

Wake up suckers.

Br Cornelius

As if on cue

Forgot, it's also the irish fall back position too.

Edited December 8, 2011 by itsnotoutthere

[Guest]

As if on cue

Forgot, it's also the irish fall back position too.

The Irish are working their way out of a crisis (and remember I am English).

The British could have spent the last 50yrs building a real economy like Germany and become the real leaders in Europe. Instead they built a house of cards out of funny money and now wonder how the **** they can stave off collapse on a monumental scale. Listen to your own news to see how bad all political commentators and economists know the next decade will be for the British.

Do you ever wonder why I left Britain over a decade ago ??

Br Cornelius

Edited December 8, 2011 by Guest

[Mr Right Wing]

Also known as Quantitative Easing - the more you print, the less value it has...causing monetary deflation, and internal inflation - it is a road to nowhere.

There is a reason why the economic minister of Zimbabwe holds such a high position at the IMF.

You have a low inflation model of running an economy and a high inflation one. Globalist economies need the low inflation model while self sufficent economies can switch to the high inflation model.

Under a high inflation model the Government could say right lets make 30 aircraft carriers and we'll hyper-inflate the money supply so when it comes to paying the bill its worth nothing. If your economy isnt nationalised thats a bad thing but if it is you essentially become limited by just your man power and natural resources.

Edited December 8, 2011 by Mr Right Wing

[questionmark]

There is a reason why the economic minister of Zimbabwe holds such a high position at the IMF.

You have a low inflation model of running an economy and a high inflation one. Globalist economies need the low inflation model while self sufficent economies can switch to the high inflation model.

Under a high inflation model the Government could say right lets make 30 aircraft carriers and we'll hyper-inflate the money supply so when it comes to paying the bill its worth nothing. If your economy isnt nationalised thats a bad thing but if it is you essentially become limited by just your man power and natural resources.

Under a high inflation model everybody ends up dirt poor. Not very usable in a democracy.

[Guest]

I just wanted to point out why Germany is successful and Britain is a basket case;

Germany has a national wage policy - Britain doesn't.

Germany has regional development Banks - Britain doesn't.

Germany has a planned industrial strategy - Britain doesn't.

Germany invests heavily in national infrastructure - Britain doesn't.

Germany has workers representative on management boards - Britain doesn't.

Germany has a low wage differential - Britain has a high wage differential.

Germany operates as a Federal State - Britain acts as a centralised Government.

Need I go on or are you seeing a pattern developing.

Br Cornelius

[Caesar]

"Britain Suffers as a Bystander to Eurocrisis "

This would be a world problem not just Britain.

[questionmark]

"Britain Suffers as a Bystander to Eurocrisis "

This would be a world problem not just Britain.

Aggravated by most of the world. You have the Koreans, Japanese and the Chinese complaining that they are exporting less... on the other hand you have the Europeans exporting more. Why? Because of the "markets" attack on the Euro. They can't match the price/quality ratio anymore.

[Caesar]

Aggravated by most of the world. You have the Koreans, Japanese and the Chinese complaining that they are exporting less... on the other hand you have the Europeans exporting more. Why? Because of the "markets" attack on the Euro. They can't match the price/quality ratio anymore.

Its mainly Germany though.

The place I work at only gets metals from Germany and the U.K.

[Mr Right Wing]

Under a high inflation model everybody ends up dirt poor. Not very usable in a democracy.

I agree its only practicle in a fully nationalised state where people dont have savings.

[questionmark]

Its mainly Germany though.

The place I work at only gets metals from Germany and the U.K.

Yes, but not only Germany, even Greece has a positive balance up to Q3 mostly on the back of maritime shipping (Q4 not available yet). Then again, considering that Germany alone makes for 20% of the EUs economy and 60% of its exports it is not surprising that their export grew most.

[Caesar]

Yes, but not only Germany, even Greece has a positive balance up to Q3 mostly on the back of maritime shipping (Q4 not available yet). Then again, considering that Germany alone makes for 20% of the EUs economy and 60% of its exports it is not surprising that their export grew most.

Don't forget even nations within the E.U. are importing more.

France, Germany Bicker over Export Surplus

[questionmark]

Don't forget even nations within the E.U. are importing more.

France, Germany Bicker over Export Surplus

True, but mostly because they are importing less from outside the EU. if you buy VW or Citroen you won't buy Hyundai...