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Britain Suffers as a Bystander to Eurocrisis


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True, but mostly because they are importing less from outside the EU. if you buy VW or Citroen you won't buy Hyundai...

Once a nation gets into high debt with another, they control you.

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Once a nation gets into high debt with another, they control you.

Or you them... depends who is more dependent: The receiver or the supplier.

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Or you them... depends who is more dependent: The receiver or the supplier.

Or in our case, if your France or if your Germany ;)

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its all well and good but the facts are the EU is going to imploded sooner rather than later, some people seem to forget that Greece is going to default. Italy is heading the wrong way and Portugal will be in need of help soon. let them commit financial suicide.

all this talk of Britain being on the sidelines, well thank god we are on the sidelines its better to be out of the firing line for when the brown stuff its the fan. the europhiles talk like they are going to avoid the poo storm. they need to understand nothing is going to save the eurozone from being covered head to toe. the impending Eurozone crash. this so called meeting today in the EU just covers the cracks the problems of the hangers one is not solved. its a charade to buy more time.

the EU ministers announce a policy the markets respond. within the next few hours the markets realise there is nothing of substance and the markets come back down again. the Eurozone crisis cannot be avoided. the markets have said so and so have the people.

on a side not the europhiles have always dreamed about a EU super power to tackle the likes of the China and USA. now the same people are sitting at the table of the Chinese with their begging bowl out. they are at the mercy of those they despise so much. so much for a european empire. crisis one and epic fail.

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They put forward a policy of a transaction tax that would have put the whole of Europe's financial services industry in jeopardy. 50% of Europe's financial service are in the UK (probably will increase after this) and they wonder why we couldn't sign up to it?

Imagine the thousands of jobs that would have been lost as these corporations disappear to countries without this regulation. I can understand Merkel and Sarkozy wanting to cut them a slice of our pie but there would have been an empty plate very soon if that caper would have been allowed to continue.

Sounded like a short term gain for a long term loss to me. Several banks had already warned they would move operations if this came in.

What a stitch up, lose thousands of jobs in torrent financial times or be blamed for the possible break up of the Euro.

No doubt the usual suspects will see only the latter.

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They put forward a policy of a transaction tax that would have put the whole of Europe's financial services industry in jeopardy. 50% of Europe's financial service are in the UK (probably will increase after this) and they wonder why we couldn't sign up to it?

Imagine the thousands of jobs that would have been lost as these corporations disappear to countries without this regulation. I can understand Merkel and Sarkozy wanting to cut them a slice of our pie but there would have been an empty plate very soon if that caper would have been allowed to continue.

Sounded like a short term gain for a long term loss to me. Several banks had already warned they would move operations if this came in.

What a stitch up, lose thousands of jobs in torrent financial times or be blamed for the possible break up of the Euro.

No doubt the usual suspects will see only the latter.

I doubt they will have an empty plate. I foresee those wanting stability moving to Luxembourg or Frankfurt... if they did not yet move to Switzerland, soon.

And that transaction tax is needed to avoid these split of a second trading (where a trader buys something to push it off a split of a second later to a higher value, mostly generated by his own purchase) that don't add anything to the economies, in fact are just as destructive as insider trading. Even if it only is pennies per transaction it will stop this practice.

And no, Cameron could not break up the Euro (after all he has not the format of Mrs. Thatcher) so nobody would blame him. As I said, the caravan is moving out of the desert and you either lead, follow or get out of the way.

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:lol: yeah I can see your point, the whole world must be thinking lets move our HQ to Europe as they have proven they can be trusted with money :lol:
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:lol: yeah I can see your point, the whole world must be thinking lets move our HQ to Europe as they have proven they can be trusted with money :lol:

Wait until the economic reality of Britain's money handling hits them, you thought Portugal was a mess?

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Wait until the economic reality of Britain's money handling hits them, you thought Portugal was a mess?

Indeed. It is unimaginable how far worse Britain will be than Portugal or Iceland. I mean, we essentially have a country that was around third 'richest' in the World for decades, yet the vast, vast, VAST majority of these riches were and are nothing more than numbers on a screen, controlled and manipulated by London (like Wall Street). It's a completely false economy.

It'll be nice when Britain finally leaves the Euro. Not because I have much against the organisation (I, just like anyone else who posts here, don't even notice they exist - really when we admit it to ourselves - and wouldn't if it weren't for the usual fear mongering splashed all over papers and forums), but because I can't wait to hear what the Brits here will blame all of our worries on after. Heck, who am I kidding, the Euro will still be blamed... Oh, and of course, immigrants and Muslims.

This is a serious question, but do the nationalists in this forum think that they would actually notice ANY financial difference after leaving the Euro? Do they think that the money will then, LOL, be spent on us? I pity the fool.

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They put forward a policy of a transaction tax that would have put the whole of Europe's financial services industry in jeopardy. 50% of Europe's financial service are in the UK (probably will increase after this) and they wonder why we couldn't sign up to it?

Imagine the thousands of jobs that would have been lost as these corporations disappear to countries without this regulation. I can understand Merkel and Sarkozy wanting to cut them a slice of our pie but there would have been an empty plate very soon if that caper would have been allowed to continue.

Sounded like a short term gain for a long term loss to me. Several banks had already warned they would move operations if this came in.

What a stitch up, lose thousands of jobs in torrent financial times or be blamed for the possible break up of the Euro.

No doubt the usual suspects will see only the latter.

If you equate your best interests with those of the London based financial markets and Bankers - then you really haven't been watching your history. England was ruined by the reliance on those markets and industries, and its lack of investment in a real economy. That is the reason that Cameron vetod - because he is there to represent the best interests of his paymasters the Financial speculators - the very same ones who helped creates the Euro and Dollar crises.

It would be laughable if those I love wouldn't be in a position to suffer due to this short sightedness.

Br Cornelius

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Personal disagreement being sorted out via PMs.

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If you equate your best interests with those of the London based financial markets and Bankers - then you really haven't been watching your history. England was ruined by the reliance on those markets and industries, and its lack of investment in a real economy. That is the reason that Cameron vetod - because he is there to represent the best interests of his paymasters the Financial speculators - the very same ones who helped creates the Euro and Dollar crises.

It would be laughable if those I love wouldn't be in a position to suffer due to this short sightedness.

Br Cornelius

England is one of the top Financial hubs in Europe, do you think Germany would go for a tax on the automotive industry?

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They put forward a policy of a transaction tax that would have put the whole of Europe's financial services industry in jeopardy. 50% of Europe's financial service are in the UK (probably will increase after this) and they wonder why we couldn't sign up to it?

Imagine the thousands of jobs that would have been lost as these corporations disappear to countries without this regulation. I can understand Merkel and Sarkozy wanting to cut them a slice of our pie but there would have been an empty plate very soon if that caper would have been allowed to continue.

Sounded like a short term gain for a long term loss to me. Several banks had already warned they would move operations if this came in.

What a stitch up, lose thousands of jobs in torrent financial times or be blamed for the possible break up of the Euro.

No doubt the usual suspects will see only the latter.

You have it the wrong way round.

Having an economy based primarily on Financial Services (as the UK's is) is inherently unstable. In the Eurozone, the basis of the economy is, instead, manufacturing - which provides a much more stable base for growth without the inevitable 'boom and bust' cycles being an FS based economy brings.

Thus, the Eurozone countries can afford to cut back their Financial Service sector with hardly any loss in the short-term, and gain in the long-term as manufacturing assumes an even greater importance to their bottom-lines.

Meanwhile, the UK might gain some of the business in FS lost by the Eurozone, and so enjoy a brief resurgence, but will be even more susceptible to the fickleness of the money markets. The UK literally "has the tiger by the tail" and is fearful of letting go because of the carnage it would cause to the country.

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England is one of the top Financial hubs in Europe, do you think Germany would go for a tax on the automotive industry?

England was one of the primary causes of the world financial crisis - wake up - the country has been left to rot whilst the money men push bits around cyberspace destroying all in their path. Money is not value, and the creation of "funny Money" leads to the loss of value. The City of London is a parasite bleeding the real wealth creating industries dry.

I ask you - how does a minimally taxed industry which generates billions in profits but employs a tiny proportion of the actual population benefit that population. Britain is a low wage economy where most people operate on short term contracts with little security, and many have to survive on multiple part time jobs. Its not a nice place to live or bring up a family. Manufacturing is intrinsically more wealth distributing. The difference is that manufacturing takes long term investment and good infrastructure - both of which cost money which the financial services industry fails to provide. The FS industry is implicitly selfish, anti-social and destabilising.

This has been easy to see since the 1980's and I am saying nothing that I wouldn't have said back then - England abandoned its real economy and people a long time ago and the British as a whole will suffer long and hard as a direct consequence.

Br Cornelius

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England is one of the top Financial hubs in Europe, do you think Germany would go for a tax on the automotive industry?

This may come as a shock to you, the German automobile industry is subject to various taxes, most of them for environmental reasons.

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You have it the wrong way round.

Having an economy based primarily on Financial Services (as the UK's is) is inherently unstable. In the Eurozone, the basis of the economy is, instead, manufacturing - which provides a much more stable base for growth without the inevitable 'boom and bust' cycles being an FS based economy brings.

Thus, the Eurozone countries can afford to cut back their Financial Service sector with hardly any loss in the short-term, and gain in the long-term as manufacturing assumes an even greater importance to their bottom-lines.

Meanwhile, the UK might gain some of the business in FS lost by the Eurozone, and so enjoy a brief resurgence, but will be even more susceptible to the fickleness of the money markets. The UK literally "has the tiger by the tail" and is fearful of letting go because of the carnage it would cause to the country.

It is a question of proportions. In the UK manufacturing has been reduced to 13% (maybe less now as I got the 2009 figures) of GDP,agriculture to 2%, mining and drilling to about 4%. That level is totally unsustainable because it means that most anything non-money has to come from abroad. The UK does not produce what it consumes.

What happened here is that Mrs. Thatcher swallowed hook line and sinker the Harvard boy's theory of the service society of the 70s (where we have to add that she was not the only one) purposely seeing to a drastic reduction in manufacturing. What nobody ever thought about with that theory is that economies are not viable if they are reduced to (drastically formulated) the guy cleaning the window of the hot-dog stand buying hot-dogs. That economy ends with the end of the hot-dogs (or the gas to cook them).

The next attempt was to consolidate the economic services in London, which could have worked were it not for the fact that most of the money needed to build this up came from abroad, causing an outflow of money greater than the inflow (because those abroad lending the money also want to earn something). At present that is being fixed by the BoE lending money to the banks at laughable rates. It could have worked in a situation like Luxembourg which is the only net borrower of all the countries in the world (all other countries are net lenders). But only under those circumstances.

Does Britain have a future as a financial market place? Yes, but only if economies get more integrated. At a point where economically Britains ecconomy and fiscal policies is so interwoven with a classic economy that you cannot distinguish between them anymore. But that is exactly what they don't want, and that is exactly what will break her neck.

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I will add that our current coalition Government in the UK does want Britain's economy to become far less reliant on the financial sector. They want to boost manufacturing which was driven practically into the ground since the 1970's.

Obviously any move this way will take decades to achieve so we have to get along with what we have in the meantime.

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What will be will be,i'm afraid.Why should us Brits jump every time the French and Germans snap their fingers.We will never accept the Euro or the EU flag.Why do you think there has never been a referendum in the UK on the Euro?,the answer is because the no vote would be in high nineties percentage wise and the Euro door would be closed forever.

Bravo Mr Cameron for being the first British P.M to not kiss the French and Germans Asses.

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All this talk about Cameron, Cameron done the right thing he protected Britain's interest, one of those interests was the financial services in the city of London. its ours and ours to protect. when you have sarcozy saying Britain should put her national interest to one side for the greater good of the EU then we know where the meeting was heading - which ever way the Germans wanted.

Let the 17 countries impose their financial tax on themselves. let them have their national budgets run by Brussels. let them hand over the powers on spending and taxation. let them submit their national budgets first to the EU for approval before their national parliaments, let them have sanctions placed on them by so called fellow EU members. in short let them commit financial suicide.

Let Germany dominate Europe. leave the fatherland to continually be bogged down by the hangers on, we can do without all the hassle. Croatia have just signed up to join the EU. all these smaller countries will just become a nuisance trying to bring southern europe and the Balkan states up to the standards of Northern Europe. its a political and financial nightmare we can do without.

Britain should go a step further and refuse to pay anymore EU membership payments until the EU has its accounts signed off. the EU sells more to us than we to them. so who needs who. its about time we left the political union. keep the free trade but nothing more. stand back and those sidelines we stand on will become a great observation platform for when the whole EU goes tits up.

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All this talk about Cameron, Cameron done the right thing he protected Britain's interest, one of those interests was the financial services in the city of London. its ours and ours to protect. when you have sarcozy saying Britain should put her national interest to one side for the greater good of the EU then we know where the meeting was heading - which ever way the Germans wanted.

Let the 17 countries impose their financial tax on themselves. let them have their national budgets run by Brussels. let them hand over the powers on spending and taxation. let them submit their national budgets first to the EU for approval before their national parliaments, let them have sanctions placed on them by so called fellow EU members. in short let them commit financial suicide.

Let Germany dominate Europe. leave the fatherland to continually be bogged down by the hangers on, we can do without all the hassle. Croatia have just signed up to join the EU. all these smaller countries will just become a nuisance trying to bring southern europe and the Balkan states up to the standards of Northern Europe. its a political and financial nightmare we can do without.

Britain should go a step further and refuse to pay anymore EU membership payments until the EU has its accounts signed off. the EU sells more to us than we to them. so who needs who. its about time we left the political union. keep the free trade but nothing more. stand back and those sidelines we stand on will become a great observation platform for when the whole EU goes tits up.

Its about time you grew up and realised that the economic union is built upon the political structures which created it. If you don't want the politics - then don't expect the benefits of selling your goods without tariffs. That is your real choice, and I suggest you encourage your political masters to cuts all ties and let Britain sink all by itself.

I don't want to imagine the misery that will cause the common man as you come to rely more and more on financial services which will be tariffed out of profitability by your no longer friendly neighbours.

Br Cornelius

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We are the United Kingdom and we'll continue to pick and choose whats best for our country. its been awhile since we fought our corner and i liked it. we are still part of the EU and Free trade. just because the other EU members think its in their interest it doesn't mean we have to agree with them and sign up also. let them get on with it, whats the problem? let the 17 euro countries and others drag one another into the mire.

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Its about time you grew up and realised that the economic union is built upon the political structures which created it. If you don't want the politics - then don't expect the benefits of selling your goods without tariffs. That is your real choice, and I suggest you encourage your political masters to cuts all ties and let Britain sink all by itself.

I don't want to imagine the misery that will cause the common man as you come to rely more and more on financial services which will be tariffed out of profitability by your no longer friendly neighbours.

Br Cornelius

No disrespect but didn't Ireland rely on billions of pounds from the UK earn't through it's financial sector to stop it going bankrupt? I believe it was around 9 billion but correct me if I am wrong.

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No disrespect but didn't Ireland rely on billions of pounds from the UK earn't through it's financial sector to stop it going bankrupt? I believe it was around 9 billion but correct me if I am wrong.

Yes thats about right,financially speaking in the last couple of Decades the British tax payer has paid more into the EU coffers than it has got back and the French and Germans have always blocked any rebates that the UK have requested.So to say that we are in isolation is kind of funny,because we are one of the biggest payers into the EEC.

The next few months should be interesting because the big two are in far more trouble than they are letting on....

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Yes thats about right,financially speaking in the last couple of Decades the British tax payer has paid more into the EU coffers than it has got back and the French and Germans have always blocked any rebates that the UK have requested.So to say that we are in isolation is kind of funny,because we are one of the biggest payers into the EEC.

The next few months should be interesting because the big two are in far more trouble than they are letting on....

Seems we are all in trouble.

Is Britain a strong lifeboat able to weather the storm of the coming tidal waves all by itself ?

Is it better to be in a flotilla with plenty of cash reserves stashed under the mattress to see you through troubled times.

It seems that I know which one I would rather be in.

There is an interesting fact about Britains contributions to the EU. It has been eligible for large sums of structural funds to rebuild its industrial base in the South of Wales and North of England - but Thatcher preferred to not recieve them and instead negotiated a rebate. So if Britain has gained less from the EU than it is entitled to - blame Thatcher who didn't want a rebuilt industrial sector to threaten her dreams of a bright new financial sector and service industry. Thatcher was involved in class warfare and didn't care if those of her citizens who lost their jobs in the seventies and eighties failed to get what they were entitled to from the EU. The UK has always been a semi-detached member of the EU and they have paid a financial price for that decision - again - blame no one else but yourself for that outcome.

Again try looking a little nearer to home for the causes of Britains ills and stop blaming the EU who has helped to grow the economies of all member states.

There is no forgiving the stupidity of the Irish Political class for what has happened to their country - but it was entirely due to their dereliction of responsibility to control a burgeoning property bubble - and only slightly due to the opportunity membership of the EU allowed them to derelict those duties. We should expect our politicians to conduct themselves as grown ups - rather than crooks, but unfortunately Ireland voted in Crooks. The EU did nothing to force our hand in those decisions we made - but the EU has been there to help us out of our folly.

Br Cornelius

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