9/11: The Flight 77 Eyewitnesses

[RubyGray]

1 hour ago, ChrLzs said:

Just as a minor clarification and indication of how daft this is - I was there.  Prove I wasn't.

I saw the aircraft hit exactly as described.  Prove I didn't.

I also saw all that stuff about Lloyde England (what a great name!), and I perosnally know him - he's actually a made up unicorn with alzheimer's.  Which explains everything..  Prove me wrong.

 

Everything i typed above is of course absolutely 100% true, because it fits with my desired narrative.  And frankly there is lots more evidence to back up those claims, than there is to back up yours.

So, like I said - byebye, and that is why.

You gave yourself away with your statement about "Everything you typed" being "absolutely true". I have no need to disprove anything you said. You did it yourself. If any of it was true, you would have some factual statements to make, and of course I would be interested to hear it.

Everything that perfectly sane, intelligent witness Lloyde England said in his interviews with CIT, was true.

This is proven by the physical damage to his cab, so meticulously recorded on video and photos by Craig Ranke and Christopher Taylor, when they personally inspected it; by Lloyde England's own testimony; by his wife Shirley's testimony; and by the testimony of other witnesses who testified having seen Lloyde England's cab at the location where the pole speared his windshield, north of the heliport.

These witnesses include, but are not limited to: 

Tony Terronez, Detective Don Fortunato, Sergeant William Lagasse, two motorcycle cops, Father Stephen McGraw, Steve Riskus, the driver of a white Ford Econoline van, the occupants of a black tow truck, the driver and passenger of a decoy Capitol Cab posed for the first 7 minutes on top of the bridge, Pentagon police officer Aubrey Davis, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, and all the rest of his security detail, who for previously unfathomed reasons appeared on the lawn opposite Lloyde's cab within 3 minutes of impact ...

... and of course there are the several independent but concurrent videos which show the cab beside the cemetery wall at 4 minutes post impact, then being relocated to the bridge within the next 4 minutes.

[RubyGray]

4 minutes ago, Trelane said:

@RubyGraySooooooo, what is it you're driving at? Just a simple sentence or two will suffice.

The first-person eyewitness testimony corroborated by the significant bank of photographic and video evidence suggests that the Official Pentagon Story is not the truth.

[Obviousman]

Quote

"It was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane," Mr Campo said. "I was cutting the grass and it came in screaming over my head. I felt the impact. The whole ground shook and the whole area was full of fire. I could never imagine I would see anything like that here."

Afework Hagos, a computer programmer, was on his way to work but stuck in a traffic jam near the Pentagon when the plane flew over. "There was a huge screaming noise and I got out of the car as the plane came over. Everybody was running away in different directions. It was tilting its wings up and down like it was trying to balance. It hit some lampposts on the way in."

A pilot who saw the impact, Tim Timmerman, said it had been an American Airways 757. "It added power on its way in," he said. "The nose hit, and the wings came forward and it went up in a fireball."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/12/expertopinions.charlieporteronmensfashion

Quote

. . . I saw the plane hit the building. It did not hit the ground first. . . It did not hit the roof first. . . It hit dead center on the edge. . . I was close enough (about 100 feet or so) that I could see the "American Airlines" logo on the tail as it headed towards the building. . . It was not completely level, but it was not going straight down, kind of like it was landing with no gear down. . . It knocked over a few light poles on its way. . . I did not see any smoke or debris coming from the plane. I clearly saw the "AA" logo with the eagle in the middle. . . I don't really remember the engine configuration, but it did have those turbine engines on the wing. . . and yes, it did impact the Pentagon. . . There was none of this hitting-the-ground first crap I keep hearing. . . It was definitely an American Airlines jet. . . There is no doubt about that. . . When I got to work I checked it out.

https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/F77pentagon.html#SRiview

Quote

Eyewitness Accounts

Abshire, Marc	Air Force Lt. Col. Marc Abshire, 40, a speechwriter for Air Force Secretary James Roche, was working on several speeches this morning when he felt the blast of the explosion at the Pentagon. His office is on the D ring, near the eighth corridor, he said. "It shot me back in my chair. There was a huge blast. I could feel the air shock wave of it," Abshire said. "I didn't know exactly what it was. It didn't rumble. It was more of a direct smack. I said, 'This isn't right. Something's wrong here.'" "We all went out in the hallway. People were yelling 'Evacuate! Evacuate!' And we found ourselves on the lawn and looking back on our building. It was very much a surrealistic sort of experience. It's just definitely not right to see smoke coming out of the Pentagon. It was a very strange sight to see." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/metro/daily/sep01/attack.html
Anderson, Steve	I witnessed the jet hit the Pentagon on September 11. From my office on the 19th floor of the USA TODAY building in Arlington, Va., I have a view of Arlington Cemetery, Crystal City, the Pentagon, National Airport and the Potomac River. ... Shortly after watching the second tragedy, I heard jet engines pass our building, which, being so close to the airport is very common. But I thought the airport was closed. I figured it was a plane coming in for landing. A few moments later, as I was looking down at my desk, the plane caught my eye. It didn't register at first. I thought to myself that I couldn't believe the pilot was flying so low. Then it dawned on me what was about to happen. I watched in horror as the plane flew at treetop level, banked slightly to the left, drug it's wing along the ground and slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon exploding into a giant orange fireball. Then black smoke. Then white smoke. http://www.jmu.edu/alumni/tragedy%5Fresponse/read%5Fmessages.html
Anderson, Ted	Lt. Col. Ted Anderson : "We ran to the end of our building, turned left and saw nothing but huge, billowing black smoke, and a brilliant, brilliant explosion of fire." (...) One of the Pentagon's two fire trucks was parked only 50 feet from the crash site, and it was "totally engulfed in flames," Anderson says. Nearby, tanks full of propane and aviation fuel had begun igniting, and they soon began exploding, one by one. (...) Back in the building again, Anderson said he began "screaming and hollering for people as secondary and third-order explosions started going off. One of them was a fire department car exploding-I think my right eardrum exploded at the same time, and it unequivocally scared the heck out of me." http://www.msnbc.com/news/635293.asp
Anlauf, Deb & Jeff	Mrs. Deb Anlauf, resident of Colfax, Wisconsin, was in her 14th floor of the Sheraton Hotel [located 1.6 mile from the explosion], (immediately west of the Navy Annex) when she heard a "loud roar": Suddenly I saw this plane right outside my window. You felt like you could touch it; it was that close. It was just incredible. "Then it shot straight across from where we are and flew right into the Pentagon. It was just this huge fireball that crashed into the wall (of the Pentagon). When it hit, the whole hotel shook. (...) Jeff didn't feel the impact of the plane crash as directly as his wife. He was attending an environmental meeting on the second floor of the hotel when the plane struck the Pentagon. About five seconds before the crash, Jeff said he heard the sound of "tin being dropped," likely as construction workers building an addition to the hotel saw the plane and dropped their building materials. "Then, about 5 seconds later, the whole hotel shook," Jeff recalled. "I could feel it moving. We said 'Oh, my gosh, what's going on?' " http://www.leadertelegram.com/specialreports/attack/storydetail.asp?ID=7
Battle	Battle, an office worker at the Pentagon, was standing outside the building and just about to enter when the aircraft struck. "It was coming down head first," he said. "And when the impact hit, the cars and everything were just shaking." http://www.abqtrib.com/archives/news01/091201_news_dcscene.shtml
Bauer, Gary	Gary Bauer, a former Presidential candidate, happened to be driving into Washington, D.C. that morning, to a press conference on Capitol Hill. "I was in a massive traffic jam, hadn't moved more than a hundred yards in twenty minutes. ... I had just passed the closest place the Pentagon is to the exit on 395 . . . when all of a sudden I heard the roar of a jet engine. I looked at the woman sitting in the car next to me. She had this startled look on her face. We were all thinking the same thing. We looked out the front of our windows to try to see the plane, and it wasn't until a few seconds later that we realized the jet was coming up behind us on that major highway. And it veered to the right into the Pentagon. The blast literally rocked all of our cars. It was an incredible moment." massnews.com / Amy Contrada / December 2001 http://www.massnews.com/past_issues/2001/dec%202001/1201bauer.htm
Bauer, Gary	"...came from behind us and banked to the right and went into the Pentagon." Interview with Warren Smith http://www.thecharlotteworld.com/30%20Mins%20With/gary%20bauer/garybauer.html
Beans, Michael	Anger and guilt still sear Lieutenant Colonel Michael Beans who shakes his head ruefully and asks himself why he survived: "Why you, not them? Who made that decision?" (...) Inside the Pentagon, the blast lifted Beans off the floor as he crossed a huge open office toward his desk. "You heard this huge concussion, then the room filled with this real bright light, just like everything was encompassed within this bright light," said Beans. "As soon as I hit the floor, all the lights went out, there was a small fire starting to burn." His friends were not so lucky. Not far away on the same floor, Beans' once familiar world had turned into a terrifying maze as well. Opening a door to the outer E-ring corridor, Beans saw waves of fire rolling towards him like surf on a beach. Turning back, he groped slowly back across the room on hands and knees. The sprinkler came on and that kept the smoke and heat down. But it was nervewracking and Beans was alone, listening as the building burned. "It was so quiet," he recalled. "There was no screaming, nobody saying anything, just nothing." He thought he might not make it out alive. He thought about his wife, his daughter and son, his 22 years in the army. "I remember taking a couple of breaths there, and I made up my mind: I just can't go out this way," he said. Suddenly out of the smoke a man ran by. "I tried to grab him, and I tried to yell at him," Beans said. But "he just disappeared into the smoke." Alone again, Beans crawled with his face to the floor. Then the carpet turned to wet tile, and he looked up and saw he was in a corridor. He ran and as the smoke cleared, he saw a guard. Beans discovered later that his head and forearms were burned. He now wears special flesh-colored compression sleeves on his arms. "These burns are going to heal, eventually," he said. But the memories "will be with me for the rest of my life." http://www.theosuobserver.com/main.cfm/include/smdetail/synid/54846.html
Begala, Paul	Paul Begala, a Democratic consultant, said he witnessed an explosion near the Pentagon. "It was a huge fireball, a huge, orange fireball," he said in an interview on his mobile phone. He said another witness told him a helicopter exploded. AP, Washington, 9/12/2001 11:45:33 PM http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0%2C1300%2C550486%2C00.html
Bell, Mickey	Mickey Bell : The jet came in from the south and banked left as it entered the building, narrowly missing the Singleton Electric trailer and the on-site foreman, Mickey Bell. Bell had just left the trailer when he heard a loud noise. The next thing he recalled was picking himself off the floor, where he had been thrown by the blast. Bell, who had been less than 100 feet from the initial impact of the plane, was nearly struck by one of the plane's wings as it sped by him. In shock, he got into his truck, which had been parked in the trailer compound, and sped away. He wandered around Arlington in his truck and tried to make wireless phone calls. He ended up back at Singleton's headquarters in Gaithersburg two hours later, according to President Singleton, not remembering much. The full impact of the closeness of the crash wasn't realized until coworkers noticed damage to Bell's work vehicle. He had plastic and rivets from an airplane imbedded in its sheet metal, but Bell had no idea what had happened. During Bell's close call, other Singleton workers, including sub-foreman Greg Cobaugh, were doing other work on the first and third floors. The blast wasn't very loud to them. They were talking about reports that two planes crashed into the World Trade Center in Manhattan, New York - not considering the noise they heard could be a similar attack. http://www.necanet.org/whats_new/report.cfm?ID=1003
Benedetto, Richard	Richard Benedetto, a USA TODAY reporter, was on his way to work, driving on the Highway parrallel to the Pentagon : "It was an American Airlines airplane, I could see it very clearly.(...) I didn't see the impact. (...) The sound itself sounded more like a thud rather than a bomb (...) rather than a loud bomb explosion it sounded muffled, heavy, very deep. I didn't see any flaps, it looked like the plane was just in normal flying mode but heading straight down. It was straight. The only thing we saw on the ground outside there was a piece of a ... the tail of a lamp post. (Video) high bandwidth : http://digipressetmp3.teaser.fr/uploads/491/Benedetto2.ram low bandwidth : http://digipressetmp3.teaser.fr/uploads/491/Benedetto.ram
Biggert, Judy	Members of Congress have been shuttled to the site to inspect the damage. Rep. Judy Biggert (R-Ill.) made the trip on Thursday. She saw remnants of the airplane. 'There was a seat from a plane, there was part of the tail and then there was a part of green metal, I could not tell what it was, a part of the outside of the plane,' she said. 'It smelled like it was still burning.'
Birdwell, Brian	LTC Brian Birdwell. He was just heading back down the hall to his office when the building exploded in front of him. The flash fire was immediate and the smoke was thick. The blast had thrown him down, giving him a concussion. He wanted to head down the hall toward the A ring...but because he couldn't see anything he had no idea which way to go and he didn't want to head in the wrong direction. (...) Once they stabilized Brian, they transferred him to George Washington Hospital where...the best, cutting edge burn doctor in the U.S. The doctor told him that had he not gone to Georgetown first, he probably would not have survived because of the jet fuel in his lungs. http://www.aog.usma.edu/Class/1961/BirdwellLuncheon.htm
Birdwell, Brian	Down the hall from Yates, Lt. Col. Brian Birdwell, 40, had been at his desk in Room 2E486 since 6:30 a.m. (...) Birdwell walked out to the men's room in corridor 4, a move that saved his life. He had just taken three or four steps out of the bathroom when the building was rocked. "Bomb!" the Gulf War vet immediately thought as he was knocked down. When he stood up, he realized he was on fire. "Jesus, I'm coming to see you" http://www.hjpa.org/morenews.html
Boger, Sean	Sean Boger, Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower chief - "I just looked up and I saw the big nose and the wings of the aircraft coming right at us and I just watched it hit the building." "It exploded. I fell to the ground and covered my head. I could actually hear the metal going through the building." The crew, Boger and Spc. Jacqueline Kidd, air traffic controller and training supervisor, prepared for President George W. Bush to arrive from Florida around 12:30 p.m. http://www.dcmilitary.com/army/pentagram/6_46/local_news/12049-1.html
Bouchoux, Donald R.	Donald R. Bouchoux, 53, a retired Naval officer, a Great Falls resident, a Vietnam veteran and former commanding officer of a Navy fighter squadron, was driving west from Tysons Corner to the Pentagon for a 10am meeting. He wrote: At 9:40 a.m. I was driving down Washington Boulevard (Route 27) along the side of the Pentagon when the aircraft crossed about 200 yards [should be more than 150 yards from the impact] in front of me and impacted the side of the building. There was an enormous fireball, followed about two seconds later by debris raining down. The car moved about a foot to the right when the shock wave hit. I had what must have been an emergency oxygen bottle from the airplane go flying down across the front of my Explorer and then a second piece of jagged metal come down on the right side of the car. Washington Post, Sept. 20, 2001 http://web.lexis-nexis.com...
Bowman, John	John Bowman, a retired Marine lieutenant colonel and a contractor, was in his office in Corridor Two near the main entrance to the south parking lot. "Everything was calm,' Bowman said. "Most people knew it was a bomb. Everyone evacuated smartly. We have a good sprinkling of military people who have been shot at." http://www.dcmilitary.com/army/pentagram/6_37/local_news/10380-1.html
Braman, Chris	Staff Sgt. Chris Braman : The lawn was littered with twisted pieces of aluminum. He saw one chunk painted with the letter ``A,'' another with a ``C.'' It didn't occur to Braman what the letters signified until a man in the crowd stooped to pick up one of the smaller metal shards. He examined it for a moment, then announced: ``This was a jet.''
Bright, Mark	Defense Protective Service officers were the first on the scene of the terrorist attack. One, Mark Bright, actually saw the plane hit the building. He had been manning the guard booth at the Mall Entrance to the building. "I saw the plane at the Navy Annex area," he said. "I knew it was going to strike the building because it was very, very low -- at the height of the street lights. It knocked a couple down." The plane would have been seconds from impact -- the annex is only a few hundred yards from the Pentagon. He said he heard the plane "power-up" just before it struck the Pentagon. "As soon as it struck the building I just called in an attack, because I knew it couldn't be accidental," Bright said. He jumped into his police cruiser and headed to the area. http://www.dcmilitary.com/marines/hendersonhall/6_39/local_news/10797-1.html
Brown, Ervin	At the Pentagon, employees had heard about or seen footage of the World Trade Centre attack when they felt their own building shake. Ervin Brown, who works at the Pentagon, said he saw pieces of what appeared to be small aircraft on the ground, and the part of the building by the heliport had collapsed.
Brown, Rich	Pentagon staff raced along a wooden pathway opposite the Pentagon building, all heading towards bridges that would take them across the Potomac River. Grown men ran at full pace. Rich Brown was sitting at his desk and "there was just a huge sound that shook the building for a second or two". "I don't know what's happened. I assume it's a co-ordinated terrorist attack." http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/08/23/1030052968648.html
Burgess, Lisa	Lisa Burgess, a reporter for the Army newspaper Stars and Stripes, said she was walking in a corridor near the blast site and was thrown to the ground by the force of the blast. http://www.neurosis.org...
Burgess, Lisa	Lisa Burgess : Stars and Stripes reporter Lisa Burgess was walking on the Pentagon's innermost corridor, across the courtyard, when the incident happened. "I heard two loud booms - one large, one smaller, and the shock wave threw me against the wall," she said.Burgess, reporting by telephone from the scene at about 4 p.m., said that five hours after the blast, still no one was able to get into the building. After the first casualties were removed, no one was brought out of the building, either dead or alive. http://www.pstripes.com/01/sep01/ed091201i.html
Campo	It was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane, Mr Campo said. "I was cutting the grass and it came in screaming over my head. I felt the impact. The whole ground shook and the whole area was full of fire. I could never imagine I would see anything like that here." http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0%2C1300%2C550486%2C00.html
Cissell, James R.	As former Cincinnatian James R. Cissell sat in traffic on a Virginia interstate by the Pentagon Tuesday morning, he saw the blur of a commercial jet and wondered why it was flying so low. ''Right about the time it was crossing over the highway, it kind of dawned on me what was happening,'' said Cissell, son of Hamilton County Clerk of Courts Jim Cissell. In the next blink of an eye, he realized he had a front-row seat to history, as the plane plowed into the Pentagon, sending a fireball exploding into the air and scattering debris - including a tire rim suspected of belonging to the airplane - past his car. (...) In the next seconds dozens of things flashed through his mind. ''I thought, 'This isn't really happening. That is a big plane.' Then I saw the faces of some of the passengers on board,'' Cissell said. While he remembers seeing the crash, Cissell remembers none of the sounds. ''It came in in a perfectly straight line,'' he said. ''It didn't slow down. I want to say it accelerated. It just shot straight in.'' http://www.cincypost.com/attack/cissel091201.html
Cleveland, Allen	Allen Cleveland of Woodbridge Virginia looked out from a Metro train going to National Airport, to see a jet heading down toward the Pentagon. "I thought, 'There's no landing strip on that side of the subway tracks,' " Before he could process that thought, he saw "a huge mushroom cloud. A lady staThe lady next to me was in absolute hysterics."" . . a silver pasenger jet, mid sized" http://mfile.akamai.com/920/rm/thepost.download.akamai.com/920/nation/091101-5s.ram
Cleveland, Allen	Soon after the crash (Within 30 seconds of the crash) I witnessed a military cargo plane (Possibly a C130) fly over the crash site and circle the mushroom cloud. My brother inlaw also witnessed the same plane following the jet while he was on the HOV lanes in Springfield. He said that he saw a jetliner flying low over the tree tops near Seminary RD in Springfield, VA. and soon afterwards a military plane was seen flying right behind it. I think this was also a reason for the false threat of another plane about to crash which caused rescuers to have to evacuate for a short time after the initial crash. I have done my research onthis and according to time magazine it took 24 minutes before Norad was supposedly notified about this particuliar jet and fighters were scrambling to intercept at that time. Isn't it odd how there is Not a single mention of this aircraft in ANY of the articles written about this crash? Also if you had not noticed... There is not a single picture or live footage of the actual jet prior to its crash at the Pentagon. Nor is there any of the one that crashed in Pennsylvania. But if Anyone who rides the metro-rail knows, there are plenty of Video cameras all around National airport at the parking Garages and the high level security buildings found all around Crystal city. (3 of which I have personally found pointed directly towards crystal city which would have given a great line of site shot of that jet prior to the crash as well as any other plane which might have been following it. I personally believe that the government new full well that this was about to happen and they are hiding something a lot bigger than they are willing to let out. I was interviewed at Washingtonpost.com and gave them my full story, but they did not print it as I have told you. I also find it interesting that one of the planes engines in the pennsylvania crash was supposedly found 5 miles prior to the crash site (This information I'm unsure of). The only thing that I'm aware of that might cause that would be a heat seeking missle. A weapon which I am pretty familiar with form Ord.training. I'm not saying that the government new exactly what was about to happen, but I do believe that they are definitely hiding something here. Many of my friends in intelligence have said the same. I work in a Gov. building in DC., but my heart is right there with you and your team. I hope you and those who served with you are doing well. Take care. http://www.spooky8.com/reviews.htm
Cook, Scott P.	[We didn't know what kind of plane had hit the Pentagon, or where it had hit. Later, we were told that] it was a 757 out of Dulles, which had come up the river in back of our building, turned sharply over the Capitol, ran past the White House and the Washington Monument, up the river to Rosslyn, then dropped to treetop level and ran down Washington Boulevard to the Pentagon (...) As we watched the black plume gather strength, less than a minute after the explosion, we saw an odd sight that no one else has yet commented on. Directly in back of the plume, which would place it almost due west from our office, a four-engine propeller plane, which Ray later said resembled a C-130, started a steep decent towards the Pentagon. It was coming from an odd direction (planes don't go east-west in the area), and it was descending at a much steeper angle than most aircraft. Trailing a thin, diffuse black trail from its engines, the plane reached the Pentagon at a low altitude and made a sharp left turn, passing just north of the plume, and headed straight for the White House. All the while, I was sort of talking at it: "Who the hell are you? Where are you going? You're not headed for downtown!" Ray and Verle watched it with me, and I was convinced it was another attack. But right over the tidal basin, at an altitude of less than 1000 feet, it made another sharp left turn to the north and climbed rapidly. Soon it was gone, leaving only the thin black trail. http://www.clothmonkey.com/91101.htm
Corley	"It was striking to me how little of the building was involved in the fire," said Dr. Corley, who has reviewed the Pentagon report. The fire, he said, "didn't spread and and trap other people in the building. "While 125 Pentagon workers and 59 passengers and crew members on the plane died, few if any of the workers who died were from outside the immediate impact zone." http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/05/nyregion/05TOWE.html
Correa, Victor	LTC Victor Correa work at the Pentagon. (...) LTC Victor Correa's office, what was the Army's Deputy Chief of Staff for Personnel, now the Army G-1, was in the path of the Boeing 757 that crashed into the Pentagon on a sunny fall morning. He was walking over to talk to a co-worker in the next cubicle when he was knocked down by the impact. "I saw a fireball come over my head," said Correa, an Active Guard Reservist now assigned to Joint Chiefs of Staff, J-5. "The fireball was coming like a wind-cloud of smoke trailing it. I also noticed to my right the windows going out and coming back in. The fireball came in and out quick - the speed of lightning. As it went back, it left a cloud of smoke and started dropping. At that time the fire system went up." Being knocked down turned out to be a life-saver. (...) "We thought it was some kind of explosion. That somehow someone got in here and planted bombs because we saw these holes." http://www.army.mil/usar/news/2002/09-11anniv/herotellsall.html
Creed, Dan	He and two colleagues from Oracle software were stopped in a car near the Naval Annex, next to the Pentagon, when they saw the plane dive down and level off. "It was no more than 30 feet off the ground, and it was screaming. It was just screaming. It was nothing more than a guided missile at that point," Creed said. "I can still see the plane. I can still see it right now. It's just the most frightening thing in the world, going full speed, going full throttle, its wheels up," Creed recalls. http://www.ahwatukee.com/afn/community/articles/020906a.html
Damoose	Damoose said the worst part was leaving the Pentagon and walking along Fort Meyer Drive, a bike trail, "you could see pieces of the plane." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/metro/daily/sep01/attack.html
Dave	Near the Lincoln Memorial, Dave heard two booms, which sounded like the artillery salutes on the Mall on the Fourth of July, he said. It was likely the noise from a secondary blast at the Pentagon - http://www.gridlockmag.com/911/
Day Wayne T.	For one employee with Wedge One's mechanical subcontractor John J. Kirlin Inc., Rockville MD, "lucky" is an understatement. "We had one guy who was standing, looking out the window and saw the plane when it was coming in. He was in front of one of the blast-resistant windows," says Kirlin President Wayne T. Day, who believes the window structure saved the man's life. According to Matt Hahr, Kirlin's senior project manager at the Pentagon, the employee "was thrown about 80 ft down the hall through the air. As he was traveling through the air, he says the ceiling was coming down from the concussion. He got thrown into a closet, the door slammed shut and the fireball went past him," recounts Hahr. "Jet fuel was on him and it irritated his eyes, but he didn't get burned. Then the fireball blew over and the sprinklers came on, and he was able to crawl out of the closet and get out of the building through the courtyard." http://www.designbuildmag.com/oct2001/pentagon1001.asp
DeChiaro, Steve	Instead of following the streams of people away from the Pentagon, Steve DeChiaro ran toward the smoke. As he reached the west side of the building he saw a light post bent in half. "But when I looked at the site, my brain could not resolve the fact that it was a plane because it only seemed like a small hole in the building," he said. "No tail. No wings. No nothing." He followed the emergency crews that had just arrived. He saw people hanging out of windows and others crawling from the demolished area. "These people were covered in what I thought was powder - I don't know anything about medicine or first aid, I'm an engineer - but it looked like powder," DeChiaro said. "Only later did I find out that it was their skin." Civilians and soldiers joined emergency crews who were rushing inside to pull out anyone they could. But shortly after 10 a.m. police yelled at people to get back. "Just as we're about to open the door, they start screaming, 'There's another inbound plane', " DeChiaro said. "At that moment, your thoughts are: 'I go in the building, I get killed, then I'm no help to anybody.' In hindsight, I think we should have gone back in that building." For nearly 15 minutes, they stood watching the Pentagon burn and periodically checked the sky for another plane. That plane never reached Washington but fell, instead, in rural Pennsylvania. Teams of two and three eventually were sent back in to find more victims. But as the day grew longer, the flow of the injured stopped. http://www.gomemphis.com/mca/america_at_war/article/0,1426,MCA_945_1300676,00.html
Defina	"The only way you could tell that an aircraft was inside was that we saw pieces of the nose gear. The devastation was horrific. It was obvious that some of the victims we found had no time to react. The distance the firefighters had to travel down corridors to reach the fires was a problem. With only a good 25 minutes of air in their SCBA bottles, to save air they left off their face pieces as they walked and took in a lot of smoke," Captain Defina said. Captain Defina was the shift commander [of an aircraft rescue firefighters crew.] http://www.nfpa.org/NFPAJournal/OnlineExclusive/Exclusive_11_01_01/exclusive_11.01.01.asp
DiPaula, Michael	Michael DiPaula 41, project coordinator Pentagon Renovation Team - He left a meeting in the Pentagon just minutes before the crash, looking for an electrician who didn't show, in a construction trailer less than 75 feet away. "Suddenly, an airplane roared into view, nearly shearing the roof off the trailer before slamming into the E ring. 'It sounded like a missile,' DiPaula recalls . . . Buried in debris and covered with airplane fuel, he was briefly listed by authorities as missing, but eventually crawled from the flaming debris and the shroud of black smoke unscathed. http://www.sunspot.net/search/bal-archive-1990.htmlstory (killtown)
Dobbs, Mike	Marine Corps officer Mike Dobbs was standing on one of the upper levels of the outer ring of the Pentagon looking out the window when he saw an American Airlines 737 twin-engine airliner strike the building. "It seemed to be almost coming in slow motion," he said later Tuesday. "I didn't actually feel it hit, but I saw it and then we all started running. They evacuated everybody around us." http://www.abqtrib.com/archives/news01/091201_news_dcscene.shtml
Dobbs, Mike	"... we saw a plane coming toward us, for about 10 seconds ... It was like watching a train wreck. I was mesmerized. ... At first I thought it was trying to crash land, but it was coming in so deliberately, so level... Everyone said there was a deafening explosion, but with the adrenaline, we didn't hear it."St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Sept. 13, 2001 - Philip Dine http://web.lexisnexis.com ... http://www2.hawaii.edu/~julianr/lexisnexis/dobbs.txt
Dougherty, Jill	Jill Dougherty : It took your breath away, data analyst Jill Dougherty said of the vibration. It went right through you. I didn't hear anything. I just felt it. http://www.delawareonline.com/newsjournal/local/2001/09/pdf/09112001EXTRA2.pdf
Dubill, Bob	" (...) when he saw a jetliner fly over the roadway. It filled his field of vision. The jet was 40-feet off the ground speeding toward the Pentagon. The wheels were up http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=5425475&BRD=386&PAG=461&dept_id=444919&rfi=6
Eberle, Bobby	"Riding in a convertible ... I looked back and saw a jet airliner flying very low and very fast. http://www.gopusa.com/bobby/bobby_091201.shtml
Eiden, Steve	Steve Eiden, a truck driver, had picked up his cargo that Tuesday morning in Williamsburg, Va., and was en route to New York City and witnessed the aftermath. He took the Highway 95 loop in the area of the Pentagon and thought it odd to see a plane in restricted airspace, thinking to himself it was odd that it was flying so low. "You could almost see the people in the windows," he said as he watched the plane disappear behind a line of trees, followed by a tall plume of black smoke. Then he saw the Pentagon on fire, and an announcement came over the radio that the Pentagon had been hit. http://www.baxterbulletin.com/ads/chronology2001/page2.html
Elgas, Penny	Traffic was at a standstill. I heard a rumble, looked out my driver's side window and realized that I was looking at the nose of an airplane coming straight at us from over the road (Columbia Pike) that runs perpendicular to the road I was on. The plane just appeared there- very low in the air, to the side of (and not much above) the CITGO gas station that I never knew was there. My first thought was "Oh My God, this must be World War III!" In that split second, my brain flooded with adrenaline and I watched everything play out in ultra slow motion, I saw the plane coming in slow motion toward my car and then it banked in the slightest turn in front of me, toward the heliport. In the nano-second that the plane was directly over the cars in front of my car, the plane seemed to be not more than 80 feet off the ground and about 4-5 car lengths in front of me. It was far enough in front of me that I saw the end of the wing closest to me and the underside of the other wing as that other wing rocked slightly toward the ground. I remember recognizing it as an American Airlines plane -- I could see the windows and the color stripes. And I remember thinking that it was just like planes in which I had flown many times but at that point it never occurred to me that this might be a plane with passengers. In my adrenaline-filled state of mind, I was overcome by my visual senses. The day had started out beautiful and sunny and I had driven to work with my car's sunroof open. I believe that I may have also had one or more car windows open because the traffic wasn't moving anyway. At the second that I saw the plane, my visual senses took over completely and I did not hear or feel anything -- not the roar of the plane, or wind force, or impact sounds. The plane seemed to be floating as if it were a paper glider and I watched in horror as it gently rocked and slowly glided straight into the Pentagon. At the point where the fuselage hit the wall, it seemed to simply melt into the building. I saw a smoke ring surround the fuselage as it made contact with the wall. It appeared as a smoke ring that encircled the fuselage at the point of contact and it seemed to be several feet thick. I later realized that it was probably the rubble of churning bits of the plane and concrete. The churning smoke ring started at the top of the fuselage and simultaneously wrapped down both the right and left sides of the fuselage to the underside, where the coiling rings crossed over each other and then coiled back up to the top. Then it started over again -- only this next time, I also saw fire, glowing fire in the smoke ring. At that point, the wings disappeared into the Pentagon. And then I saw an explosion and watched the tail of the plane slip into the building. It was here that I closed my eyes for a moment and when I looked back, the entire area was awash in thick black smoke. http://americanhistory.si.edu/september11/collection/supporting.asp?ID=30
Elliott, Bruce	Former ammunition plant official evacuated building moments before suicide airliner collision.Col. Bruce Elliott, former commander of the Iowa Army Ammunition Plant who was reassigned to the Pentagon in July, watched in horror Tuesday as a hijacked 757 airliner crashed into the nerve center of the U.S. military command. Elliott, in a phone interview Wednesday, said he had just left the Pentagon and was about to board a shuttle van in a south parking lot when he saw the plane approach and slam into the west side of the structure. "I looked to my left and saw the plane coming in," said Elliott, who watched it for several seconds. "It was banking and garnering speed. I felt it was headed for the Pentagon." (...) "It was like a kamikaze pilot. I felt it was going to ram the Pentagon," he said. He said the craft clipped a utility pole guide wire, which may have slowed it down a bit before it crashed into the building and burst into flames. (...) Elliott said the rubble was still smoldering Wednesday morning. http://www.thehawkeye.com/features/911/IdxThur.html
Evey, Walker Lee	The plane approached the Pentagon about six feet off the ground, clipping a light pole, a car antenna, a construction trailer and an emergency generator before slicing into the building, said Lee Evey, the manager of the Pentagon's ongoing billion-dollar renovation. The plane penetrated three of the Pentagon's five rings, but was probably stopped from going farther by hundreds of concrete columns. The plane peeled back as it entered, leaving pieces of the front of the plane near the outside of the building and pieces from the rear of the aircraft farther inside, Evey said. The floors just above the impact remained intact for about 35 minutes after the crash, allowing many people in those offices to escape, Evey said http://detnews.com/2001/nation/0110/06/nation-312016.htm
Evey, Walker Lee	Internally, the Wedge One project included: complete demolition of existing facilities; significant abatement of hazardous materials (most notably, 28 million lbs. of asbestos-contaminated material was removed); installation of all new electrical, mechanical, plumbing and telecommunication systems within the existing floorplan; structural steel reinforcement; and replacement of all 1,282 windows in the section, including 386 blast-resistant units on the outermost "E Ring" and innermost "A Ring" of the building. All-new office space was created with an open space plan aimed at enhancing flexibility (...) Amazingly, the plane pushed through the outermost "E Ring", and drove deep into the interior, its nose coming to rest just inside the "C Ring." http://www.designbuildmag.com/oct2001/pentagon1001.asp
Evey, Walker Lee	We've learned -- this is wedge one, okay, the newly-renovated area. The path of the airplane seems to have taken it along this route, so it entered the building slightly, on this photo, slightly to the left of what we call corridor four. There are 10 radial corridors in the building that extend from A ring out through E ring, and this is the fourth of those radial corridors. So it impacted the building in an area that had been renovated, but its path was at a -- it appears to be at a diagonal, so that it entered in wedge one but passed through into areas of wedge two, an unrenovated portion of the building. And, of course, you all know it's got rings A through E, five stories tall, et cetera. QUESTION: That seems to indicate that it came to rest in ring C, the nose cone. EVEY: Let me talk to that, because you've asked a number of questions already about the extent of penetration, et cetera. This is an overhead of the building. The point of penetration was right here, and we blocked that out to show that's the area of collapse. The plane actually penetrated through the E ring, C ring -- excuse me -- E ring, D ring, C ring. This area right here is what we call A-E Drive. And unlike other rings in the building, it's actually a driveway that circles the building inside, between the B and the C ring. The nose of the plane just barely broke through the inside of the C ring, so it was extending into A-E Drive a little bit. So that's the extent of penetration of the aircraft. The rings are E, D, C, B and A. Between B and C is a driveway that goes around the Pentagon. It's called A-E Drive. The airplane traveled in a path about like this, and the nose of the aircraft broke through this innermost wall of C ring into A-E Drive. QUESTION: One thing that's confusing -- if it came in the way you described, at an angle, why then are not the wings outside? I mean, the wings would have shorn off. The tail would have shorn off. And yet there's apparently no evidence of the aircraft outside the E ring. EVEY: Actually, there's considerable evidence of the aircraft outside the E ring. It's just not very visible. When you get up close -- actually, one of my people happened to be walking on this sidewalk and was right about here as the aircraft approached. It came in. It clipped a couple of light poles on the way in. He happened to hear this terrible noise behind him, looked back, and he actually -- he's a Vietnam veteran -- jumped prone onto the ground so the aircraft would not actually -- he thinks it (would have) hit him; it was that low. On its way in, the wing clipped. Our guess is an engine clipped a generator. We had an emergency temporary generator to provide life-safety emergency electrical power, should the power go off in the building. The wing actually clipped that generator, and portions of it broke off. There are other parts of the plane that are scattered about outside the building. None of those parts are very large, however. You don't see big pieces of the airplane sitting there extending up into the air. But there are many small pieces. And the few larger pieces there look like they are veins out of the aircraft engine. They're circular. QUESTION: Would you say that the plane, since it had a lot of fuel on it at the impact, and the fact that there are very small pieces, virtually exploded in flames when it tore into the building? I mean, since there are not large pieces of the wings laying outside, did it virtually explode? EVEY: I didn't see it. My people who did see it enter the building describe it as entering the building and then there being flames coming out immediately afterwards. Whether you describe it as an explosion or not, people I talk to who were there, some called it an explosion. Others called it a large fire. I'm not sure. I wasn't there, sir. It's just a guess on my part. http://www.patriotresource.com/wtc/federal/0915/DoD.html
Evey, Walker Lee	Walker Lee Evey, program manager of the Pentagon restoration project : The fire was so hot, Evey said, that it turned window glass to liquid and sent it spilling down walls into puddles on the ground. The impact cracked massive concrete columns far beyond the impact site, destabilizing a broader section of the building than contractors had originally thought. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/03/07/attack/main503257.shtml On Sept. 11, Flight 77 sliced through the outermost three of the Pentagon's five concentric rings. Fires from the plane's 20,000 gallons of fuel melted windows into pools of liquid glass. The impact of the crash fractured concrete pillars well beyond the incisions in the three outer rings. http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/2821782.htm
Faram, Mark	I hate to disappoint anyone, but here is the story behind the photograph. At the time, I was a senior writer with Navy Times newspaper. It is an independent weekly that is owned by the Gannett Corporation (same owners as USA Today). I was at the Navy Annex, up the hill from the Pentagon when I heard the explosion. I always keep a digital camera in my backpack briefcase just as a matter of habit. When the explosion happened I ran down the hill to the site and arrived there approximately 10 minutes after the explosion. I saw the piece, that was near the heliport pad and had to work around to get a shot if it with the building in the background. Because the situation was still fluid, I was able to get in close and make that image within fifteen minutes of the explosion because security had yet to shut off the area. I photographed it twice, with the newly arrived fire trucks pouring water into the building in the background. The collapse of the building above area happened long after I left the scene. I was not even aware that that had happened until that evening when I watched the news. My photos were on the wire by noon. That was the only piece of wreckage of any SIZE that I saw, but was by no means the ONLY piece. Right after photographing that piece of wreckage, I also photographed a triage area where medical personnel were tending to a seriously burned man. A priest knelt in the middle of the area and started to pray. I took that image and left immediately. As I stepped onto the highway next to the triage area, I knelt down to tie my shoe and all over the highway were small pieces of aircraft skin, none bigger than a half-dollar. Anyone familiar with aircraft has seen the greenish primer paint that covers many interior metal surfaces - that is what these shards were covered with. I was out of the immediate area photographing other things within 20 minutes of the crash. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/frameup/message/1254
Flyler, Kim	Kim Flyler was trying to sneak into a parking space near to the building when she saw the plane: "At that moment I heard a plane and then a loud cracking noise.... Right before the plane hit the building, you could see the silhouettes of people in the back two rows. You couldn't see if they were male or female, but you could tell there was a human being in there." The Observer, Sept. 8, 2002
Ford, Ken	Ken Ford : One eyewitness, State Department employee Ken Ford, said he watched from the 15th floor of the State Department Annex, just across the PotomacRiver from the Pentagon. We were watching the airport through binoculars, Ford said, referring to Reagan National Airport, a short distance away. The plane was a two-engine turbo prop that flew up the river from National. Then it turned back toward the Pentagon. We thought it had been waved off and then it hit the building. http://www.delawareonline.com/newsjournal/local/2001/09/pdf/09112001EXTRA2.pdf http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/world/2001/0912/wor5.htm
Fortunato, Don	"Traffic was at a standstill, so I parked on the shoulder, not far from the scene and ran to the site. Next to me was a cab from D.C., its windshield smashed out by pieces of lampposts. There were pieces of the plane all over the highway, pieces of wing, I think. (...) "There were a lot of people with severe burns, severe contusions, severe lacerations, in shock and emotional distress" http://www.msnbc.com/news/635293.asp
Fowler, Charles	Navy Capt. Charles Fowler : Navy Capt. Charles Fowler, assigned to the Joint Chiefs, was working on a speech for Gen. Henry Shelton, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, when he heard the explosion. "You could feel the building shake," said Fowler. "You knew it was a major explosion. I grabbed all my gear and grabbed the laptop and headed out." "The interesting part was we didn't hear the alarm go off, but word got around very fast. It was an orderly evacuation" Fowler's office, on the river side, appeared to be on the opposite side from the explosion, he said. "Tons of smoke was coming up from the wedge-lots of black and gray smoke." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/metro/daily/sep01/attack.html
Fraunfelter, Dan	Dan Fraunfelter : After the meeting, just before 9:30 a.m., the young engineer grabbed a subcontractor to help him repair a damaged ceiling grid on the third floor of the Pentagon's E-Ring. The two were in the middle of the job when a strange sound ripped through the room. It lasted just a split second, says Fraunfelter, "A strange sucking, whirring sound, like a loud vacuum cleaner." Then the sound stopped, the building shook violently, and the lights went out. http://www.msnbc.com/news/635293.asp
Frost, Stephen S.	Captain Stephen S. Frost, Medical Corps : We saw many blast injuries http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq87-7b.htm
Gaines, Kat	Kat Gaines, heading south on Route 110, approached the parking lots, saw a low-flying jetliner strike the top of nearby telephone poles. " http://www.fccc.org/News/valor.htm
Goff, Dr	Dr Goff :"We used every aspect of our medical training that day to treat victims suffering from injuries ranging from inhalation and blast injuries to all levels of burns to emotional trauma," http://www.aoa-net.org/Publications/DO/pentagon1101.pdf
Goldsmith, Gilah	Gilah Goldsmith, personnel attorney at the Pentagon. When she got to her office sometime around 9, she phoned her daughter and heard "an incredible whomp noise." It didn't seem so unusual since her office is situated near a narrow area where trucks sometimes come by and hit the wall. Goldsmith was told to evacuate. "We saw a huge black cloud of smoke," she said, saying it smelled like cordite, or gun smoke. http://www.jewishsf.com/bk010921/usp14a.shtml
Hagos, Afework	Afework Hagos, a computer programmer, was on his way to work but stuck in a traffic jam near the Pentagon when the plane flew over. "There was a huge screaming noise and I got out of the car as the plane came over. Everybody was running away in different directions. It was tilting its wings up and down like it was trying to balance. It hit some lampposts on the way in." http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0%2C1300%2C550486%2C00.html
Hagos, Asework	Asework Hagos, 26, of Arlington, was driving on Columbia Pike on his way to work as a consultant for Nextel. He saw a plane flying very low and close to nearby buildings. "I thought something was coming down on me. I know this plane is going to crash. I've never seen a plane like this so low." He said he looked at it and saw American Airline insignia and when it made impact with the Pentagon initially he saw smoke, then flames.
Harrington, Joe	Harrington was working on the installation of new furniture in Wedge One, when he was called out to the parking lot to talk about security with his customer moments before the crash. "About two minutes later one of my guys pointed to an American Airlines airplane 20 feet high over Washington Blvd.," Harrington said. "It seemed like it made impact just before the wedge. It was like a Hollywood movie or something. http://www.dcmilitary.com/army/pentagram/6_37/local_news/10380-1.html
Haubold, Art	At about 9:20 a.m., Lt. Col. Art Haubold, a public affairs officer with air force, was in his office on the opposite side of the complex when the plane struck. "We were sitting there watching the reports on the World Trade Center. All of a sudden, the windows blew in," he said. "We could see a fireball out our window." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/metro/daily/sep01/attack.html
Hemphill, Albert	From the view of the Navy Annex : After a few moments, Lt Gen Ron Kadish, Director of the Ballistic Missile Defense Organization entered the Secure Conference Room to pursue the day's activities and do real work. This office, with two nice windows and a great view of the monuments, the Capitol and the Pentagon was "good digs" by any Pentagon standard. I walked in the office and stood peering out of the window looking at the Pentagon. As I stood there, I instinctively ducked at the extremely loud roar and whine of a jet engine spooling up. Immediately, the large silver cylinder of an aircraft appeared in my window, coming over my right shoulder as I faced the Westside of the Pentagon directly towards the heliport. The aircraft, looking to be either a 757 or Airbus, seemed to come directly over the annex, as if it had been following Columbia Pike - an Arlington road leading to Pentagon. The aircraft was moving fast, at what I could only be estimate as between 250 to 300 knots. All in all, I probably only had the aircraft in my field of view for approximately 3 seconds. The aircraft was at a sharp downward angle of attack, on a direct course for the Pentagon. It was "clean", in as much as, there were no flaps applied and no apparent landing gear deployed. He was slightly left wing down as he appeared in my line of sight, as if he'd just "jinked" to avoid something. As he crossed Route 110 he appeared to level his wings, making a slight right wing slow adjustment as he impacted low on the Westside of the building to the right of the helo, tower and fire vehicle around corridor 5. What instantly followed was a large yellow fireball accompanied by an extremely bass sounding, deep thunderous boom. The yellow fireball rose quickly as black smoke engulfed the entire Westside of the Pentagon, obscuring the whole of the heliport. I could feel the concussion and felt the shockwave of the blast impact the window of the Annex, knocking me against the desk. http://lists.travellercentral.com/pipermail/tml/2001-September/013153.html http://www.ournetfamily.com/WarOnTerror/emails/pentagonwitness.shtml
Henson, Jerry	Pinned in his chair and wrapped in a shroud of thick smoke and darkness, Jerry Henson had almost given up hope. He could feel all his limbs, but they wouldn't move. It was as if he were frozen at his desk by forces he couldn't battle. Through the smoke, he mustered some pleas for help. His mind still raced to figure out what happened and whether this was real. It was 9:40 a.m., Sept. 11. (...) airliner (...) slammed into the Pentagon. "The impact was quite clear," Henson said. "But it wasn't what you would think. It was just a loud kathump. Just a loud noise." Then all his senses failed him. The plane had sliced through the emergency lighting generators leaving everything in blackness. Books and computer monitors tumbled from the shelves behind him. Then his head throbbed. Pain shot through his legs. He couldn't move. All he could taste was smoke and dust. "I knew I was wounded some place because you can tell the difference between water and blood," he said. "Blood is sticky and tacky and warm. But I couldn't tell where the blood was coming from." For 15 minutes he and two of his staff who also were trapped in the office yelled for help. They yelled for Punches, Henson's deputy. They yelled for other survivors. They yelled for anyone at all. http://www.gomemphis.com/mca/america_at_war/article/0,1426,MCA_945_1300676,00.html
Henson, Jerry	Inside the hell that was once his office, Jerry Henson freed his hands enough to move rubble off of his shoulders. He dislodged his head. But he couldn't move the heavy desktop from his lap. It had been 15, maybe 20 minutes since everything turned dark and painful. Still no answer from Capt. Punches. Now fires were burning closer as deposits of jet fuel ignited. "You could hear them lighting off," Henson said. "They would go 'poof,' kind of like when you light a furnace. You could hear these getting closer." The two other men in the office couldn't get to Henson, but they found a hole in the wall to crawl through. And they found help. Minutes passed slowly as Henson remained trapped in the dark and more conscious of every breath. He heard rubble crumbling and splashes like footsteps in puddles. Then he saw a slice of light. "I'm a doctor, I'm here to help you," said a voice. Navy Lt. Cmdr. David Tarantino, the doctor, and Capt. David M. Thomas Jr. had dodged slithering electrical wires and dripping solder to reach Henson. Tarantino, realizing Henson was pinned, got on his back and lifted the table top with his feet enough for Henson to slide out. Thomas and Tarantino pulled him back out through the maze. With a blur of light and a rush of fresh air, Henson knew he was safe. Jerry Henson, now 65, spent four days at nearby Arlington Hospital Center. Doctors sewed up the gash in the back of his head and on his chin. His neck was sprained, his back was sore, and he still needed treatment for smoke inhalation. "I was eager to get out," he said. "I thought the sooner I was able to get walking and breathing, the better I'd avoid pneumonia and things like that." http://www.gomemphis.com/mca/america_at_war/article/0,1426,MCA_945_1300676,00.html
Holland, Nicholas	Nicholas Holland, an engineer with AMEC Construction Management of Bethesda, Md., had spent the last two years working to reinforce the walls. Two summers ago, a blast wall of reinforced steel and concrete was installed right where the plane hit. It stood for 25 minutes after it was hit before collapsing, long enough for people to escape, Holland said. http://www.detnews.com/2001/nation/0109/11/nation-291261.htm
Hovis, Tom	Being a former transport type (60's era) I cannot understand how that plane hit where it did giving the direction the aircraft was taking at the time. As most know, the Pentagon lies at the bottom of two hills from the west with the east side being next to the river at 14th street bridge. One hill is at the Navy Annex and the other is Arlington Cemetery. The plane came up I-395 also known as Shirley Hwy. (most likely used as a reference point.) The plane had been seen making a lazy pattern in the no fly zone over the White House and US Cap. Why the plane did not hit incoming traffic coming down the river from the north to Reagan Nat'l. is beyond me . Strangely, no one at the Reagan Tower noticed the aircraft. Andrews AFB radar should have also picked up the aircraft I would think. Nevertheless, the aircarft went southwest near Springfield and then veered left over Arlington and then put the nose down coming over Ft Myer picking off trees and light poles near the helicopter pad next to building. It was as if he leveled out at the last minute and put it square into the building. The wings came off as if it went through an arch way leaving a hole in the side of the building it seems a little larger than the wide body of the aircraft. The entry point was so clean that the roof (shown in news photo) fell in on the wreckage. They are just now getting to the passengers today. The nosewheel I understand is in the grass near the second ring. Right now it is estimated that it will take two years to repair the damage. Ironcally, the area had just been remodeled with most of the area was still blocked off and some offices were empty. I know a young Army Major who went to a planned staff meeting at 8:30 am sharp. He left his office and attended the meeting, there was something he needed. He called his friend also a major near his office on his cell phone. As they were talking his friend said, My God a plane has just came through near your office "(which was not part of the new area, but near it ). Fire rolled down the hallway, somehow his friend on the phone ducked down another hallway. Four of the Major's friends did not make it. Incidently, the fireball also went along the outside of the building as shown by the blackend side of the building to left of the impact point. The reason the fire took so long to put out was because the attic was filled with "horse hair" for insulation put there in 1942 when the building was built. http://www.beanerbanner.com/a_father____.htm
Hunt, Bob	office when the explosion at the Pentagon occurred. "About a third of the sky was blacked with smoke", He said. Hunt was in contact with this office via e-mail on September 11 until he left work and decided to walk, rather than catch a crowded subway. "I talked to a number of average people in route who said they saw the plane hovering over the Washington Mall Area at an altitude lower that the height of the Washington Monument" Hunt stated. He said they reported to him they could clearly see the markings of an American Airlines airliner and some even said they could make out faces of passengers in the aircraft windows. Again, this is what Bob Hunt heard from witnesses on the street in Washington D.C. on September 11, 2001. http://www.sierratimes.com/02/03/15/arjj031502.htm
Jarvis, Will	From time spent on military aircraft as part of his job at the Pentagon, Will Jarvis (who graduated with a bachelor of applied science in 1987 while attending New College) knows what aviation fuel smells like. That smell was his only clue that a plane had crashed into the Pentagon, where he works as an operations research analyst for the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Jarvis, who was around the corner from the disaster, tried but failed to see the plane when he left the building. "There was just nothing left. It was incinerated. We couldn't see a tail or a wing or anything," he says. "Just a big black hole in the building with smoke pouring out of it." For someone sitting only 300 metres away from the carnage of American Airlines Flight 77, Jarvis and his officemates were surprisingly well insulated from it. "We thought the plane was a dump truck backing into the building, because there was a lot of construction going on," he says. The group noticed that the sky was darker than normal, but still didn't think much of it. "Then I saw little bits of silver falling from the sky," says Jarvis. http://www.magazine.utoronto.ca/02winter/f02.htm#jarvis
Joyce, Tom	Tom Joyce, a Navy captain, was reading at his desk on the fifth floor in the building's fifth wing, when the plane hit. The impact knocked him out of his chair. "The whole building shook," Captain Joyce said. "Smoke started coming into the building." http://www.americanmemorials.com/memorial/tribute.asp?idMemorial=1316&idContributor=7466
Kean, Terrance	Terrance Kean, 35, who lives in a 14-story building nearby, heard the loud jet engines and glanced out his window. "I saw this very, very large passenger jet," said the architect, who had been packing for a move. "It just plowed right into the side of the Pentagon. The nose penetrated into the portico. And then it sort of disappeared, and there was fire and smoke everywhere. . . . It was very sort of surreal." http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A13766-2001Sep11
Khavkin, D. S.	from an 8th floor high-rise: "At first, we thought it was the jets that sometimes fly overhead. However, it appeared to be a small commercial aircraft..." http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/talking_point/newsid_1540000/1540586.stm
Kirk, Mark Steven	Rep. Mark Steven Kirk (R-Ill.), a Naval Reserve intelligence officer. ''Apparently, the fire killed everybody in there,'' said Kirk, shortly after he learned that two friends perished in the center. Kirk also went to the site. ''The first thing you smell is the burning. And then you can smell the aviation fuel. And then you can smell this sickly, rotten-meat smell,'' he said.
Kizildrgli, Aydan	Kizildrgli, while driving by the Pentagon, "saw the jetliner bank slightly" http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/11/attack-usat.htm
Krohn, Charles H.	One of the aircraft's engines somehow ricocheted out of the building and arched into the Pentagon's mall parking area between the main building and the new loading dock facility, said Charles H. Krohn, the Army's deputy chief of public affairs. Those fleeing the building heard a loud secondary explosion about 10 min. after the initial impact. http://www.aviationnow.com/content/publication/awst/20010917/aw48.htm
Lagasse, William	Sgt. William Lagasse, a pentagon police dog handler, the son of an aviation instructor, was filling up his patrol car at a gas station near the Pentagon when he noticed a jet fly in low. He watched as the plane plowed into the Pentagon. Initially, he thought the plane was about to drop on top of him -- it was that close. Lagasse knew something was wrong. The 757's flaps were not deployed and the landing gear was retracted. http://206.181.245.163/ebird/e20011108vivid.htm
Lagasse, William	I saw the aircraft above my head about 80 feet above the ground, 400 miles an hour. The reason, I have some experience as a pilot and I looked at the plane. Didn't see any landing gear. Didn't see any flaps down. I realized it wasn't going to land. . . . It was close enough that I could see the windows and the blinds had been pulled down. I read American Airlines on it. . . .I got on the radio and broadcast. I said a plane is, is heading toward the heliport side of the building. http://web.lexis-nexis.com... http://www2.hawaii.edu/~julianr/lexisnexis/lagasse1.txt
Liebner, Lincoln	"I saw this large American Airlines passenger jet coming in fast and low," said Army Captain Lincoln Liebner. "My first thought was I've never seen one that high. Before it hit I realised what was happening." http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/08/23/1030052968648.html
Liebner, Lincoln	After the second plane hit the World Trade Center, Major Lincoln Leibner jumped in his pickup truck and raced to the Pentagon. As he ran to an entrance, he heard jet engines and turned in time to see the American Airlines plane diving toward the building. "I was close enough that I could see through the windows of the airplane, and watch as it as it hit," he said. "There was no doubt in my mind what I was watching. Not for a second. It was accelerating," he said. "It was wheels up, flaps up, engines full throttle. " http://www.theosuobserver.com/main.cfm/include/smdetail/synid/54846.html
Liebner, Lincoln	Maj. Leibner drove in and made it as far as the south parking lot, where he got out on foot. "I heard the plane first," he said. "I thought it was a flyover Arlington cemetery." From his vantage point, Maj. Leibner looked up and saw the plane come in. "I was about 100 yards away," he said. "You could see through the windows of the aircraft. I saw it hit." The plane came in hard and level and was flown full throttle into the building, dead center mass, Maj. Leibner said. "The plane completely entered the building," he said. "I got a little repercussion, from the sound, the blast. I've heard artillery, and that was louder than the loudest has to offer. I started running toward the site. I jumped over a fence. I was probably the first person on the scene." A tree and the backend of a crash truck at the heliport near the crash site were on fire and the ground was scorched, Maj. Leibner recounted. "The plane went into the building like a toy into a birthday cake," he said. "The aircraft went in between the second and third floors." At that point, no one was outside. Spotting a Pentagon door that had been blown off its hinges, Maj. Leibner went in and out several times, helping rescue several people. "The very first person was right there," he said. "She could walk. I walked her out onto the grass." Maj. Leibner said a police officer pulled up onto the grass and began to help. "Everybody was hurt," Maj. Leibner said. "They were all civilian females. Everybody was burned on their hands and faces. http://www.usmedicine.com/article.cfm?articleID=384&issueID=38
Leibner, Lincoln	Captain Lincoln Leibner says the aircraft struck a helicopter on the helipad, setting fire to a fire truck. We got one guy out of the cab," he said, adding he could hear people crying inside the wreckage. Captain Liebner, who had cuts on his hands from the debris, says he has been parking his car in the car park when the crash occurred." http://abc.net.au/news/2001/09/item20010911230953_1.htm
M. K.	It was so shocking, I was listening to the news on what had happened in New York, and just happened to look out the window because I heard a low flying plane and then I saw it hit the Pentagon. It happened so fast... it was in the air one moment and in the building the next... I still have a hard time believing it, but every time I look out the window, it seems to be more real than it did the time before... K.M., Pentagon City, USA http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/talking%5Fpoint/newsid%5F1537000/1537530.stm
Marra, David	David Marra, 23, an information-technology specialist, had turned his BMW off an I-395 exit to the highway just west of the Pentagon when he saw an American Airlines jet swooping in, its wings wobbly, looking like it was going to slam right into the Pentagon: "It was 50 ft. off the deck when he came in. It sounded like the pilot had the throttle completely floored. The plane rolled left and then rolled right. Then he caught an edge of his wing on the ground." There is a helicopter pad right in front of the side of the Pentagon. The wing touched there, then the plane cartwheeled into the building. http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,174655-4,00.html
Martinez, Oscar	``I saw a big jet flying close to the building coming at full speed. There was a big noise when it hit the building,'' said Oscar Martinez, who witnessed the attack. Extrait article : Away from the Pentagon, unexplained explosions were reported in the vicinity of the State Department and the Capitol. http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/11_APdc.html
McAdams	Daniel and his wife Cynthia McAdams : Two other witnesses, Daniel McAdams and his wife, Cynthia, said they were sitting in their kitchen drinking coffee in their third-floor condominium in Arlington, Va., just two miles from the Pentagon when they heard a plane fly directly overhead around 9:45 a.m. It was unusually loud and low. Seconds later, they heard a big boom and felt the doors and windows of their three-story building shake. From their window, they could see a plume of black smoke coming from the Pentagon. I said, Oh my God, ... I can t even come to grips. It s just a shock, said Daniel McAdams, a freelance journalist. It s scary to just be so close .... Who knows if there's another one being hijacked that could miss the target? I feel like a target here. Soon after, military planes including F-15s were circling the Pentagon. Traffic clogged McAdams street as workers fled. http://www.delawareonline.com/newsjournal/local/2001/09/pdf/09112001EXTRA2.pdf
and many more (see link below)

 

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/witnesses/bart.html

 

You should quit whilst you are behind.

Edited September 20, 2019 by Obviousman
Corrected formatting error in quoted text

[+Liquid Gardens]

1 hour ago, RubyGray said:

but CIT were so obtuse that they missed this crucial evidence from a prime Northside Witness.

Why is any of this 'crucial'?  Pointing out issues, if they even are issues, with eyewitnesses on the bridge and supposed flight paths is being done in such detail by you to what end?  Do you mistakenly think that pointing out discrepancies in what some people said is evidence against the idea that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon?  I assume not since you snipped out the rest of my post with very reasonable questions concerning the theory that the plane flew over or something.  If you're just talking about this as just miscellaneous trivia, that's fine; I haven't read the recent part of this thread so maybe you spelled out the purpose of this analysis of yours earlier.

[+Liquid Gardens]

42 minutes ago, RubyGray said:

The first-person eyewitness testimony corroborated by the significant bank of photographic and video evidence suggests that the Official Pentagon Story is not the truth.

Thanks, but more detail please.  What specific parts of the official story are not the truth, at a high level.

[Peter B]

9 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Frankly I find that to be fairly absurd; CIT is not 'pointing out' something, we usually reserve that phrase for things that are factual, what CIT is engaging in is massive conjecture (to put it politely).  Who is doing this silencing?  How many people do they have on staff?  The Pentagon is out in the open and where the Pentagon was hit by the plane is not hidden, there was the potential for hundreds of witnesses; how many 'agents' were on hand to immediately silence all these witnesses?  Furthermore by the time the plane hit the Pentagon we already knew we were under attack, which would just increase the potential number of witnesses.

If the plane flew over the Pentagon, then why are there just a few people who said they saw 'a plane' fly over the Pentagon?  Where are all the witnesses on the other side of the Pentagon and in Washington DC in general who would have logically seen, 30+ minutes after it had been made clear that the US was under attack, an extremely low-flying, extremely loud jet flying past it?  A jet of that size takes a while to climb, and with the speed it was travelling we should have a mile's worth, at least, of DC witnesses who saw a low jet flying overhead past the Pentagon.  Where are all these witnesses?  Sorry, that's just too many people to 'silence'.

If you are aware of the reliability, and most importantly the unreliability, of eyewitness testimony then the fact that there are different witnesses stating different specific things and making mistakes on what occurred is entirely unsurprising.  Human beings naturally have issues perception-wise with accurately judging the size, speed, and location with respect to the ground of flying objects.

RubyGray, I'd be grateful if you could address this point of Liquid Gardens's.

Out of interest, has there been any attempt to find CCTV footage from locations past the Pentagon where any overflying plane would have gone?

[Peter B]

2 hours ago, Trelane said:

@RubyGraySooooooo, what is it you're driving at? Just a simple sentence or two will suffice.

 

2 hours ago, RubyGray said:

The first-person eyewitness testimony corroborated by the significant bank of photographic and video evidence suggests that the Official Pentagon Story is not the truth.

But if so, there must have been a different sequence of events.

As with Trelane, so with me: if "the Official Pentagon Story is not the truth", then what was the actual sequence of events? And what evidence is available to back it up?

[RubyGray]

1 hour ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Thanks, but more detail please.  What specific parts of the official story are not the truth, at a high level.

Please make up your mind.

I gave you the one-sentence version which you requested.

For the fuller version, please begin from my first post here a few days ago, read until here, then continue reading as I post more evidence.

If Lloyde England's taxi windscreen was speared by a 4 inch x 12 foot piece of pole when he was 400 yards north of the bridge as a plane flew just above him towards the Pentagon (which videos now prove was the case),

and if there was an identical but undamaged black cab parked askew across the lanes of the bridge between 9:37 and 9:43 a.m., which sped south away from the bridge, as ...

Lloyde's taxi was then speedily moved south down the highway by a waiting black tow truck and low loader trailer, concealed by a black tarp, and posed on the bridge beside a 10 inch x 30 foot downed lightpole, which was claimed officially to have been knocked down by hijacked AA77 and to have done that damage to Lloyde's cab, by 9:45 a.m.,

and if DONALD RUMSFELD'S BODYGUARD was then despatched from his employer's presence on the Pentagon lawn, to collect Lloyde England from wandering about on the highway, transport him in a brown Jeep and to reunite him with his cab on the bridge, where he first appeared in a photo at 9:55 a.m., 18 minutes post impact, guarded by this bodyguard, a police detective and a Fire Dept officer,

Then what would this suggest to you about the significance of a single eyewitness claiming to have been somewhere other than where the official photos taken by military photographer Cpl Jason Ingersoll, placed him?

Photos of Lloyde England and his damaged cab on the bridge beside a downed lightpole are used as the "physical proof" that AA77 flew across the bridge, knocked down a diagonal corridor of 5 lightpoles, then impacted the Pentagon.

But it did not happen that way, and Lloyde England and his cab are actually physical proof that the official story was a premeditated false flag operation by the Pentagon.

Edited September 20, 2019 by RubyGray
Durned predictive text

[RubyGray]

21 minutes ago, Peter B said:

 

But if so, there must have been a different sequence of events.

As with Trelane, so with me: if "the Official Pentagon Story is not the truth", then what was the actual sequence of events? And what evidence is available to back it up?

There certainly was a different sequence of events.

Much of this is laid out on my unfinished thread "LLOYDE ENGLAND VINDICATED WITH NEW EVIDENCE ON PHOTOS AND VIDEO" to which I do not have the direct link available on this tablet right now.

The evidence is found on numerous videos taken by amateur witnesses, TV news and CCTV footage, within minutes of impact. The quality of these videos is generally poor. If the quality had been good, then no amount of FOIA requests would have wrested them from the custody of the FBI, for the evidence they reveal is damning.

However, they were taken concurrently from many vantage points, and when correlated, they confirm the testimony of Lloyde England and several eyewitnesses who saw his cab at the cemetery wall location, and form a continuous timeline of the events.

Several high-profile individuals are identified on these videos, playing their parts in the scene.

How come nearly everyone here is Australian?

[RubyGray]

40 minutes ago, Peter B said:

If the plane flew over the Pentagon, then why are there just a few people who said they saw 'a plane' fly over the Pentagon?  Where are all the witnesses on the other side of the Pentagon and in Washington DC in general who would have logically seen, 30+ minutes after it had been made clear that the US was under attack, an extremely low-flying, extremely loud jet flying past it?  A jet of that size takes a while to climb, and with the speed it was travelling we should have a mile's worth, at least, of DC witnesses who saw a low jet flying overhead past the Pentagon.  Where are all these witnesses?  Sorry, that's just too many people to 'silence'.

There are witnesses whose accounts seem anomalous, but who were doing their best to describe and make sense of the curious and frightening event they had just seen. I believe several of these were flyover witnesses.

MICHAEL KELLY was travelling east on I-395, about to enter the 14th Street Bridge, when a very low, very SLOW plane flew across his car. It was not climbing, it was not loud, it was not fast. It was so QUIET that he had the impression it was a small plane. He looked back behind him when he heard the crash, he saw the fireball, and he assumed it had been THIS PLANE which somehow turned around and caused that damage. 

He was interviewed by a TV crew within about 10 minutes of impact, sounding extremely confused and disturbed. 

I have never been able to find any other testimony from him. That is strange. Surely he would have been sought out by other journalists? Or was he? Did his story not fit the mould?

 

DON SCOTT was driving a bus east on I-395 past Macy's store, when he saw a very low jet, making a hard right bank across the top of the Pentagon. Like Kelly, he THEN heard the impact, and looked behind him, to see the fireball rising into the sky.

The evidence of these 2 witnesses suggests that the plane was travelling much slower than claimed, that it actually crossed the Pentagon roof perhaps up to 2 seconds BEFORE the explosion, that it maybe had its engines cut out to reduce the nouse, and was therefore dislocated in people's perceptions from the impact, so that those on the east side would have thought THIS was a regular flight coming in to land at the nearby Reagan National Airport. That is probably what this plane did.

 

CIT interviewed LEVI STEPHENS, who was in South Parking when, he stated, he saw the plane approach, FLY OVER HIS VAN, and THEN he saw and heard the explosion. These things seem mutually exclusive. Yet again we suspect a time delay between flyover and explosion. That was in fact mentioned by many "impact witnesses", and would explain some anomalies in other accounts.

 

"SKARLET" initially believed that the plane had overflown the Pentagon, but the explosion semi-convinced her that it had impacted. Her blog, published within hours, reveals the conflicting impressions she experienced.

 

MARIA DE LA CERDA was playing in a military band at a funeral on top of the cemetery, looking down towards the Pentagon. She saw the plane flying towards the building, and stated in her early official testimony, "IN MY MIND'S EYE I THOUGHT I SAW IT HIT ON THE OTHER SIDE / ON TOP." She was also interviewed by CIT, and again, gave the impression that she could not believe the plane had hit the West wall at ground level. It was only the explosion which made her believe the Official story, and distrust her own observation. Again, she sounds as though she saw the plane having crossed the Pentagon roof before the explosion occurred.

 

The CCTV footage from the forecourt of the Double Tree hotel is curiously disjointed. The footage locks on a single frame for some seconds, several times. The time-stamp fluctuates wildly, back and forth by 2 minutes. There is a young man walking into the parking lot, who turns back to see the rising smoke plume. After a few seconds, he walks on into the lot. The footage freezes his image when he is in centre frame, with his arms outstretched, and looking up into the sky to the east. Was it it a bird? Superman? "AA77"??? 

It is almost as if he is watching something far more significant than the spectacle of the Pentagon burning behind him, towards nearby Reagan National Airport. The deleted frames suggest to me that there could have been something in the footage which needed to be deleted by the FBI - could it have been the passing shadow of a large jet?

That there were deletions by the FBI before this video was released, is absolutely proven. The frame following the final frame showing this man after he is beamed up from the sequence, reveal a telltale trace. Whistleblower perhaps?? The section around the timestamp has been very clumsily cut out of the frame with the man in it, and superimposed on a frame of the empty forecourt. Expanding this image shows that they have left parts of his hands and legs around the timestamp.

 

Please do not complain that this evidence is "anecdotal" or "uncited". All references and video grabs exist to support these statements, inaccessible to me until I get back to a PC.

[RubyGray]

3 hours ago, Obviousman said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/12/expertopinions.charlieporteronmensfashion

https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/F77pentagon.html#SRiview

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/witnesses/bart.html

 

You should quit whilst you are behind.

Ooh goody, you can cut & paste!!!

[RubyGray]

3 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Thanks, but more detail please.  What specific parts of the official story are not the truth, at a high level.

For me, the involvement of the Secretary of Defense, who seconded his own bodyguard to retrieve, transport and babysit Lloyde England through the photo session posed on the bridge, completed within the first 20 minutes from impact, is the clanging bell that rings out "Pentagon premeditation and military operation".

This scene is played out in startling manner on the videos I mention.

Numerous journalists and others have asked the gnarly question, "What was the S.O.D. doing playing first responders on the lawn for the first half hour, when he should have been running the military response?"

This little bridge-cab-pole stage play is the surprising answer.

[toast]

2 hours ago, RubyGray said:

Ooh goody, you can cut & paste!!!

Ooh goody, can you please please focus on the essentials (if there are any). BTW, your writing style is highly confusing and I'm still not 100% sure what it's all about because the key issue, if there is any, got sunk in an endless ocean of scribblings. As you are a beginner in the field of communication, I strongly recommend you to read the book What`s Your Point by Bob Boylan. Even if the book is about to improve the style of presentations, its a general how-to how to convey contents in an understandable fashion to an audience and/or single persons.

Edited September 20, 2019 by toast

[+Liquid Gardens]

8 hours ago, RubyGray said:

Please make up your mind.

I gave you the one-sentence version which you requested.

Is it your theory that Flight 77 (or whatever commercial jet you seem to agree was there) did not hit the Pentagon and instead flew over it?  If so, then you have issues, as you are missing a lot of evidence where evidence should be.  Jets, even when they are supposedly travelling 'slow', make a lot of noise.

8 hours ago, RubyGray said:

Photos of Lloyde England and his damaged cab on the bridge beside a downed lightpole are used as the "physical proof" that AA77 flew across the bridge, knocked down a diagonal corridor of 5 lightpoles, then impacted the Pentagon.

No.  One person is not 'the' physical proof that AA77 flew across the bridge, there were many people who saw that and who saw it hit the Pentagon.

8 hours ago, RubyGray said:

But it did not happen that way, and Lloyde England and his cab are actually physical proof that the official story was a premeditated false flag operation by the Pentagon

There's more conjecture.  Have you not noticed all the other people and vehicles around on the highway in all of your photos, which should tell you how important focusing on the experience of one person is not?  Where is this information about Rumsfeld's bodyguard coming from? Is it from Rumsfeld or the bodyguard himself?

7 hours ago, RubyGray said:

Ooh goody, you can cut & paste!!!

Uh, that's what you should do when providing quotes. What, do you want all of those hand typed again?  Will you be providing explanations why all of that testimony should be disregarded?

[Robotic Jew]

8 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Is it your theory that Flight 77 (or whatever commercial jet you seem to agree was there) did not hit the Pentagon and instead flew over it?  If so, then you have issues, as you are missing a lot of evidence where evidence should be.  Jets, even when they are supposedly travelling 'slow', make a lot of noise.

No.  One person is not 'the' physical proof that AA77 flew across the bridge, there were many people who saw that and who saw it hit the Pentagon.

There's more conjecture.  Have you not noticed all the other people and vehicles around on the highway in all of your photos, which should tell you how important focusing on the experience of one person is not?  Where is this information about Rumsfeld's bodyguard coming from? Is it from Rumsfeld or the bodyguard himself?

Uh, that's what you should do when providing quotes. What, do you want all of those hand typed again?  Will you be providing explanations why all of that testimony should be disregarded?

I'm pretty sure the point is just #Bushdid911

[RubyGray]

52 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Re cutting and pasting vast reams of external material :

Uh, that's what you should do when providing quotes. What, do you want all of those hand typed again?  Will you be providing explanations why all of that testimony should be disregarded?

I have read all these a hundred times. Merely pasting scores of quotes here verbatim from another site, followed by a sarcastic one-liner, may be the Ocker way, but it contributes nothing valuable to the discussion.

Picking one or a few witness testimonies at a time, discussing it/them and omitting the snarky remark, is surely more in keeping with the tenor of this site.

All testimony is of some value, even if only to prove that it may be sensationalist journo-speak, second-or-third-person therefore not actual witness testimony, even hearsay, or frankly invented; the product of a disturbed mind or mistaken observation or faulty memory. 

The original intention of this thread was to take each witness testimony one by one and discuss them, sorting the wheat from the chaff, and creating a more accurate record for posterity. I think that is a good idea. Far too many of the witness compilations contain testimony by unidentifiable people. There is a great deal of vague and/or contradictory info in them. There should be a better, more comprehensive collation of testimonies than we now have. Of course it is getting very late to try contacting witnesses to clarify the many woolly elements. At least CIT did their best to personally interview many witnesses, and this evidence should also be entered into an improved database of eyewitness accounts.

[+Liquid Gardens]

9 minutes ago, RubyGray said:

There is a great deal of vague and/or contradictory info in them.

Which is of course to be 100% expected given the nature of this event and rather basic psychology.  If you are going to spend equal time on every witness testimony as you have spent on this cab driver, this is going to be a very long thread, and again is somewhat besides the point considering all of the physical evidence which is far more compelling.

12 minutes ago, RubyGray said:

Merely pasting scores of quotes here verbatim from another site, followed by a sarcastic one-liner, may be the Ocker way, but it contributes nothing valuable to the discussion

It contributes a lot that is valuable, you essentially admit that since you yourself are discussing testimony of witnesses; why is testimony that is for your position so valuable but the scores of other testimony that is counter 'nothing valuable'?

I'm not sure why you did not address the question I asked of whether your position is that the plane flew over the Pentagon; just saying 'false flag' is way too vague.  If the false flag plan involved the plane coming close to the Pentagon but actually flying over, then I'm sorry, it's difficult to think why someone would think they could get away with that deception, concerning one of the most prominent buildings in DC, in plain sight, next to a highway, after everyone knew there was an attack in progress.

[RubyGray]

1 hour ago, Liquid Gardens said:

No.  One person is not 'the' physical proof that AA77 flew across the bridge, there were many people who saw that and who saw it hit the Pentagon.

You are certainly hard to please.

You complain when I mention multiple witnesses, then criticise me for discussing one witness in detail.

Obviously there were many witnesses. Many of their testimonies contradict each other, so which are we to take as gospel? How are we to determine which are true?

Of course Lloyde England is not "the only" proof of anything, either way. But he was promoted as the likable public face of the day's narrative that delineated the flightpath of "hijacked flight AA77". 

Plane flew across bridge - plane knocked down 5 light poles - light pole #1 smashed Lloyde's taxi windshield - photos taken of Lloyde and cab with damaged windshield beside downed light pole #1 on bridge proves AA77 was the culprit which caused the corridor of damage on its path into the Pentagon - 9/11 memorial constructed on lawn replicates diagonal path of plane extremities so everybody remembers exactly where AA77 flew. QED. RIGHT?

WRONG.

Lloyde England strongly disputed his )location at the time of impact, and he, like so many other witnesses, testified that the plane did not fly across the bridge, but crossed Route 27 at about the level of the Columbia Pike exit road at the southern end of the cemetery.

The question is - If Lloyde's testimony is true, then thinking at least hypothetically, what implications does this have for the trajectory of the plane?

[Peter B]

RubyGray said:

There are witnesses whose accounts seem anomalous, but who were doing their best to describe and make sense of the curious and frightening event they had just seen. I believe several of these were flyover witnesses.

Thank you for this information.

MICHAEL KELLY was travelling east on I-395, about to enter the 14th Street Bridge, when a very low, very SLOW plane flew across his car. It was not climbing, it was not loud, it was not fast. It was so QUIET that he had the impression it was a small plane. He looked back behind him when he heard the crash, he saw the fireball, and he assumed it had been THIS PLANE which somehow turned around and caused that damage. 

He was interviewed by a TV crew within about 10 minutes of impact, sounding extremely confused and disturbed. 

I have never been able to find any other testimony from him. That is strange. Surely he would have been sought out by other journalists? Or was he? Did his story not fit the mould?

Here is Michael Kelly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnSB_vmc72E

Here's the best transcript I can produce of what he says: I was in the traffic on the 14th Street Bridge, right at the Pentagon, [inaudible] going into town, and I heard this plane come over my head, it was really *slow*...it sounded like a small plane, but it was very very low. And the next thing I know there was this tremendous explosion as it hit the Pentagon, and I looked right over, and the smoke started coming out, and pieces of the plane and pieces of the Pentagon were falling on the 14th Street...onto the [inaudible] highway...

Note there's no reference to how loud or quiet the plane was. Instead, he says "...it sounded like a small plane..." (my emphasis). Small plane doesn't necessarily mean quiet plane.

DON SCOTT was driving a bus east on I-395 past Macy's store, when he saw a very low jet, making a hard right bank across the top of the Pentagon. Like Kelly, he THEN heard the impact, and looked behind him, to see the fireball rising into the sky.

And according to the transcript I've read, Scott said "...I noticed a plane making a sharp turn from north of the Pentagon..." That's rather different from what you describe him as saying.

The evidence of these 2 witnesses suggests that the plane was travelling much slower than claimed, that it actually crossed the Pentagon roof perhaps up to 2 seconds BEFORE the explosion, that it maybe had its engines cut out to reduce the nouse, and was therefore dislocated in people's perceptions from the impact, so that those on the east side would have thought THIS was a regular flight coming in to land at the nearby Reagan National Airport. That is probably what this plane did.

I'm sorry, I have to strongly disagree. In both cases your descriptions of what these men said is noticeably different from what they are recorded as actually saying. Yes, Kelly describes the plane as being slow, but neither Kelly or Scott gives any indication of the plane overflying the Pentagon - that's your conclusion.

CIT interviewed LEVI STEPHENS, who was in South Parking when, he stated, he saw the plane approach, FLY OVER HIS VAN, and THEN he saw and heard the explosion. These things seem mutually exclusive. Yet again we suspect a time delay between flyover and explosion. That was in fact mentioned by many "impact witnesses", and would explain some anomalies in other accounts.

I'm not going to comment either way as I'm not sure of the location of the Navy Annex or Stephens in relation to the Pentagon.

"SKARLET" initially believed that the plane had overflown the Pentagon, but the explosion semi-convinced her that it had impacted. Her blog, published within hours, reveals the conflicting impressions she experienced.

I'm fairly sure that Skarlet posted on the Punk Princess blog. Is this the quote you mean: "As I came up along the Pentagon I saw helicopters. That's not strange. It's the Pentagon. Then I saw the plane. There were only a few cars on the road, we all stopped. I know I wanted to believe that plane was making a low descent into National Airport, but it was nearly on the road. And it was headed straight for the building. It made no sense. The pilot didn't seem to be planning to pull up anytime soon. It was there. A huge jet. Then it was gone." If so, that doesn't sound like she was only semi-convinced it had impacted.

MARIA DE LA CERDA was playing in a military band at a funeral on top of the cemetery, looking down towards the Pentagon. She saw the plane flying towards the building, and stated in her early official testimony, "IN MY MIND'S EYE I THOUGHT I SAW IT HIT ON THE OTHER SIDE / ON TOP." She was also interviewed by CIT, and again, gave the impression that she could not believe the plane had hit the West wall at ground level. It was only the explosion which made her believe the Official story, and distrust her own observation. Again, she sounds as though she saw the plane having crossed the Pentagon roof before the explosion occurred.

I'm not going to argue with what she thought she saw, but I note her location has her to the west of the Pentagon, and through all the trees in the Arlington Cemetery I don't see how she could have any view of a plane flying over the Pentagon. 

The CCTV footage from the forecourt of the Double Tree hotel is curiously disjointed. The footage locks on a single frame for some seconds, several times. The time-stamp fluctuates wildly, back and forth by 2 minutes. There is a young man walking into the parking lot, who turns back to see the rising smoke plume. After a few seconds, he walks on into the lot. The footage freezes his image when he is in centre frame, with his arms outstretched, and looking up into the sky to the east. Was it it a bird? Superman? "AA77"??? 

It is almost as if he is watching something far more significant than the spectacle of the Pentagon burning behind him, towards nearby Reagan National Airport. The deleted frames suggest to me that there could have been something in the footage which needed to be deleted by the FBI - could it have been the passing shadow of a large jet?

That there were deletions by the FBI before this video was released, is absolutely proven. The frame following the final frame showing this man after he is beamed up from the sequence, reveal a telltale trace. Whistleblower perhaps?? The section around the timestamp has been very clumsily cut out of the frame with the man in it, and superimposed on a frame of the empty forecourt. Expanding this image shows that they have left parts of his hands and legs around the timestamp.

Here's a link to the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq7Een-tx3s

Yes, over the course of the whole video it's quite jumpy, and it freezes for the last couple of seconds the young man is walking towards the camera, which makes it look like he teleported out of the car park. But the part of the video from 0:04 to 0:20, including the explosion around 0:13 is smooth and uninterrupted.

As for why the man has his arms outstretched and is looking up into the sky, who knows. For all we know he might be appealing to God. I see no reason to conjecture another plane.

Please do not complain that this evidence is "anecdotal" or "uncited". All references and video grabs exist to support these statements, inaccessible to me until I get back to a PC.

No, that's fine.

However I have one major problem (in addition to the problems I mentioned above): all of these witnesses are somewhere in the arc from west of the Pentagon to south of the Pentagon. If the plane flew over the Pentagon from south-west to north-east, where are the witnesses to the east of the Pentagon who should have seen any plane fly just over the top of the Pentagon? For example, those travelling south-west on the 14th St Bridge would have seen the plane come straight towards them, then execute a sharp right hand turn to land at the Ronald Reagan Airport.

[RubyGray]

9 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

If you are going to spend equal time on every witness testimony as you have spent on this cab driver, this is going to be a very long thread, and again is somewhat besides the point considering all of the physical evidence which is far more compelling.

It contributes a lot that is valuable, you essentially admit that since you yourself are discussing testimony of witnesses; why is testimony that is for your position so valuable but the scores of other testimony that is counter 'nothing valuable'?

I'm not sure why you did not address the question I asked of whether your position is that the plane flew over the Pentagon; just saying 'false flag' is way too vague.  If the false flag plan involved the plane coming close to the Pentagon but actually flying over, then I'm sorry, it's difficult to think why someone would think they could get away with that deception, concerning one of the most prominent buildings in DC, in plain sight, next to a highway, after everyone knew there was an attack in progress.

You really need to lighten up a bit. I can do nothing that satisfies you. No, I am not intending to discuss each witness with such lengthy detail. For most witnesses, we have nowhere near the amount of first-person testimony, TV interviews, preserved physical evidence (the taxi cab), investigative interviews by numerous researchers, internet discussions, etc., as we have for Lloyde England. Few other witness stories were as high profile when it came to reinforcing the flightpath in the public perception. Yet Lloyde's account does not feature in the various eyewitness compilations. But his story is extraordinary, and deserves to be discussed.

As to me not responding instantaneously to your every demand, well I have already spent far too many hours on this today, and it is now 1 a.m.

Yes, it would be a crazy plan, to try to pull off a flyover in full view of hundreds to fake a terrorist attack, wouldn't it?  But many witnesses very specifically testified that the plane they saw, flew hundreds of yards north of the official flightpath, and that the plane banked, rather than making a beeline for the Pentagon.

Lloyde England testified that the pole which hit his cab, was not the light pole seen in the photos of the bridge, but that it was a much smaller pole, and that the incident occurred 400 yards north of the bridge. A series of videos has captured the evidence that validates Lloyde's story.

So something is up with the official story. There are gaping holes in it. If people are provoked into at least thinking for themselves about the implications and possibilities, that is a positive thing.

I have presented testimonies which tell a story at variance with the official narrative. I suggest that people do their own research on those individuals, and attempt to reconcile them with the official account.

[RubyGray]

6 minutes ago, Peter B said:

... However I have one major problem (in addition to the problems I mentioned above): all of these witnesses are somewhere in the arc from west of the Pentagon to south of the Pentagon. If the plane flew over the Pentagon from south-west to north-east, where are the witnesses to the east of the Pentagon who should have seen any plane fly just over the top of the Pentagon? For example, those travelling south-west on the 14th St Bridge would have seen the plane come straight towards them, then execute a sharp right hand turn to land at the Ronald Reagan Airport.

It is very late and I need to sleep.

Your reasonable observations are noted and will be addressed later.

I see you have some misconceptions about the geography of these accounts, which partly explains why your opinions differ.

You are quoting from a very attenuated version of Skarlet's blog. She had much more to say than that, which can be hard to locate, but I have the full account.

From videos it appears that all traffic was travelling east on the 14th St Bridge, and there was very little traffic on I-395 at all, despite what was claimed by some.

The plane was travelling west to east towards the Pentagon according to witnesses, then banked to the right. so the path was coming from the west then turning to maybe E-S-E. Not southwest to northeast.

Later.

[+Liquid Gardens]

14 minutes ago, RubyGray said:

You complain when I mention multiple witnesses, then criticise me for discussing one witness in detail.

That's not correct, I objected to the inconsistency in your approach as I stated, and noted that finding discrepancies in one eyewitness' testimony doesn't erase all the other evidence.  You are focusing on one/few eyewitnesses and their testimony to support your position and then turn around and respond that providing other testimony, that happens to not agree with you, contributes 'nothing' to the discussion.  If witness testimony is valuable for your position then, if we're consistent, it's valuable against your position and most certainly contributes something.

22 minutes ago, RubyGray said:

Lloyde England strongly disputed his )location at the time of impact, and he, like so many other witnesses, testified that the plane did not fly across the bridge,

And as Peter has just pointed out, Michael Kelly was in traffic on the bridge and saw the plane fly overhead. Inconsistent and contradictory eye-witness testimony, especially under very emotional conditions, is entirely expected. 

Actually I'm of the opinion that the crappy security footage/snapshots of the explosion does show a fuzzy AA airliner right before impact, that's difficult to reconcile with your apparent theory:

[Trelane]

17 hours ago, RubyGray said:

The first-person eyewitness testimony corroborated by the significant bank of photographic and video evidence suggests that the Official Pentagon Story is not the truth.

So what story do you believe or would you accept then?

[RubyGray]

6 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

... And as Peter has just pointed out, Michael Kelly was in traffic on the bridge and saw the plane fly overhead. Inconsistent and contradictory eye-witness testimony, especially under very emotional conditions, is entirely expected. 

Actually I'm of the opinion that the crappy security footage/snapshots of the explosion does show a fuzzy AA airliner right before impact, that's difficult to reconcile with your apparent theory:

I have nothing at all  against people quoting the eyewitness testimony. Of course that is the correct procedure. But when a post consists of a cut & paste of scores of such testimonies, with zero accompanying discussion, just the snarky admonition "Quit while you're behind," then I think I am justified in my objection. I am happy to discuss any of those testimonies. One at a time, or a handful,  would be fine. But to dump them all on the table with the assumption that the mere weight of numbers trumps any valid criticism, is not useful. That poster labours under the misconception that i believe none of those testimonies. Wasn't he the one who stated that CIT are "no planers"? And other such false accusations.

I see your point on David Chandler's enhanced blink comparator image of the plane. That is as good as the evidence for an AA 757 gets. If we could be certain that this was not an airbrushed insertion concocted by FBI talent in the significant interval between 9/11 and the FOIA release date, that would be something, but even so, there would be the insurmountable problem of the Northside witnesses who saw the plane cross the highway much farther north than the bridge, and perpendicular to the wall rather than at ~50 degrees to it. There would be the problem of all the motorists on the bridge who did not notice a 124 ft 6 inch wide 757 jet roar diagonally over their heads.

It would not cancel the many testimonies from Route 27 witnesses who estimated that the plane was between 40 to 80 feet above their cars as it crossed the highway. That is far too high to hit any lightpoles or car antennas. 80 feet is already high enough to clear the Pentagon roof, and too high to swoop down to lawn level within the fractional second before impact. There would be the problem that not one single person witnessed that very prominent gushing white cloud emitted by the plane, and one person (name escapes me at present; perhaps Riskus?) who protested that there was no such phenomenon. Also that this thick trail of whatever failed to cast a shadow on the lawn.

There would still be the problem of credible witnesses who stated that the plane hit or "bounced" much higher than the ground floor. And those who saw the plane "lift up" or "pivot up" as it crossed the highway. These witnesses include Captain Lincoln Liebner (<100 yards from impact), ATC Sean Boger (inside the heliport tower, <100 yards from impact), Mary Ann Owens (beside helipad), Father Stephen McGraw (about level with heliport), Robert Turcios (at Citgo), Darius Prather (at cemetery workshop), Tim Timmerman (over 1 mile away and had a view for only about 1/5th second as the plane appeared from behind high rise buildings; he was never able to be found again), etc. And the possibility of flyover witnesses would still not be dismissed. I will provide images with locations to illustrate my suggestions later.

Steve Riskus, I would argue, was an operative on the day, whose photos were framed to "prove" that Lloyde England's cab was not beside the cemetery wall. But even so, he did not toe the party line of the plane flying diagonally across the bridge, which would have been 400 yards south of his position, rendering it virtually impossible to identify. Riskus drew his position and the flightpath on overhead maps (coming soon), and stated that he was "only about 100 feet or so" from seeing the plane broadside on, such that he could ID the tail logo. 100 feet is too short an estimate, unless he was referring to the left wing tip. But Riskus (like Lloyde England whose cab was directly in front of his car)  witnessed the plane crossing the highway at the level of the Columbia Pike exit road.

This corroborates the testimonies of Sergeants Lagasse and Brooks, of Captain Lincoln Liebner who drew this perpendicular flightpath on a map just a few days post 9/11, of James Cissell who was "about 4 car lengths behind the plane" opposite the impact site, of ANC staff George Aman, Darrell Carter,  Darius Prather, William Middleton, Erik Dihle and 2 others, etc.

So this topic is worthy of further research. The gatecam videos showing a single frame each of what is purported to be "hijacked AA77" are simply not supported by the testimony of the many witnesses who were right there, and some explaining needs to be done.

[RubyGray]

14 hours ago, toast said:

Ooh goody, can you please please focus on the essentials (if there are any). BTW, your writing style is highly confusing and I'm still not 100% sure what it's all about because the key issue, if there is any, got sunk in an endless ocean of scribblings.

Sorry you got bogged down in the details. One style cannot suit all. My comments presume a certain level of interest and familiarity with the general topic of Pentagon 9/11 eyewitness testimony, and specifically with the Lloyde England story. Also an understanding of the CIT research. Watching their videos on Craig Ranke's YT channel Lytetrip is the best way to get up to speed with the background to my posts. Then they also keep their websites up as a resource, although they have been inactive for years.

All this material is "essential", actually.