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Q24

9/11: The Flight 77 Eyewitnesses

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RubyGray
1 hour ago, ChrLzs said:

Even if I accept the timeline (I don't), what's the big deal?  Where I live (near 2 major freeways), there are at least 8 locations where towtrucks wait, like vultures, in a 20 km stretch that I oft travel.,  And as soon as they saw huge clouds of smoke, you don't think they would be moving to take advantag er.. help?  Same with emergency services vehicles (do you not realise how many fire/ambulance/police stations are dotted about thru a city - did you not research where the vehicles potentially came from?) and also officials who were already on the road - they would get a call almost immediately.  8 minutes is an eternity in such a huge and obvious event, particular give that the news was already out there from the other earlier events.

Ah well, at least you finally started to outline your problem... thanks.

In fact, I have laid all this out quite logically in many and various places. But you have just now started paying attention. Thanks.

Your lack of logical deduction is underwhelming.

We know that there was "NO traffic" on the southbound lanes. Except, obviously, for the handful of vehicles that were allowed through, which actively participated in this drama.

  • The decoy Capitol Cab which was on the bridge, but not overflown by any plane, and undamaged by any pole, at the time of impact.
  • Lloyde England's cab, which was about 50m north of the overhead sign beside the cemetery wall, when the plane flew over his car, UP THERE, NOT over the bridge, and a pole smashed through his windscreen.
  • Steve Riskus, who was following on Lloyde's tail, who also witnessed the plane flying UP THERE, NOT over the bridge. Riskus' job was to take the earliest photographs of the scene, proving that there was "NO TRAFFIC SOUTHBOUND", which he accomplished by carefully framing his numerous shots to exclude the area of highway next to the cemetery wall, where Lloyde and his cab were. However, his second photograph does show shattered glass and skid marks on the highway, right there where the cab was hit.
  • The black towtruck, with the orange low loader trailer borrowed from, and shortly returned to, its spot behind the guardrail, obscured from view of highway traffic by mounds of rubble, on the northwest cloverleaf. This combo was waiting right behind Lloyde's cab at 4 minutes post impact, even before the pole was removed. Lloyde had been told by FBI agents to WAIT in that spot with his cab, as it was EVIDENCE.
  • The White Van, whose driver, the Silent Stranger, helped Lloyde remove the pole at 9:42 a.m.

All these vehicles are seen on the video shot from the triage site. 

Detective Fortunato's silver sedan is also there, but he had made his way 2 miles south from the police station after the impact, and was in the HOV lane, not the southbound lane.

I have indeed researched where the towtruck and trailer came from.

The trailer is of that colour and particular, very rare tongueless type used by the Virginia Dept of Transportation. As seen in the CIT video, 

I have a very good idea indeed where the towtruck came from, although it was unmarked on that day.

That this towtruck ...

had previously hitched up a trailer belonging to the VDOT,

which was parked conveniently on a side road equidistant from

  • the cemetery wall site where Lloyde's cab was hit by a pole, and
  • the bridge site where Lloyde's cab needed to be photographed next to an entirely different pole within 11 minutes from impact,

and that immediately after the cab was moved to the bridge,

the towtruck unhitched that trailer in its original position again ...

... and that if it was merely "HELPING", it's operators did not communicate with the driver Lloyde England who was unaware of its actions,

... and did not remove the immobilized cab from the scene, but left it across the lanes of the highway, where it continued to obstruct traffic for many hours ...

is more than strongly suggestive of premeditation and collusion with the perpetrators.

Lloyde was later forced to engage a different towing company to have his cab returned home from the courthouse (I belIeve) where it had been moved at the end of 9/11.

Of course, the synchronised activities of the identical DECOY CAB are another major clue.

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ChrLzs

Thanks for the ongoing smarm, Ruby, it certainly tells us about your 'style'.

As for the new 'information', EVERY item you claim needs to be supported and explained in context.  Why is it important, what scenario is it you are suggesting and what was the overall motive?

 As you very rarely do any of that, the response you get is what you deserve.  I have lost interest in dealing with every new claim you make, but I will continue to point out the deficiencies in your approach.   By all means put me on ignore, though.

 

And wake me if anyone who matters takes up the cause.

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RubyGray

Anyone who is anybody already knows enough about this story for what I write to make perfect sense. Whether or not the truth revealed on all those real-time videos is too painful a concept to consider seriously.

You are only here to pirouette, whinge and ridicule.

Your pretentious criticisms of my "style" only thinly disguise the fact that you know nothing about the topic, cannot be interested in doing any research, and have nothing of any validity to add to the discussion.

Mockery is to forum discussion as sarcasm is to wit.

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bknight
13 hours ago, RubyGray said:

Let's go way back to when the NTSB was forced under FOIA request, to release their OFFICIAL animation of the Flight path of AA77 as per the OFFICIAL FDR DATA, in 2006.

This info was posted long ago on Pilots for 9/11 Truth website, after they obtained this info directly from the NTSB.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=375&pid=10814556&st=0&#entry10814556

How do you explain this?

The NTSB refuses to explain this.

Barbara Honegger comes closest, with her revelation that a NORAD General sent a fighter jet to fly over the Pentagon, where he did a large loop southwest of the building, then at altitude of just under 500 feet (below radar detection height) the pilot reported that he saw no sign of a plane impact into the Pentagon.

This information is contained in Barbara Honegger's PDF, "The Pentagon Attack Papers - Seven Hours in September". 

  • "In the Air Force’s own account of the events of 9/11, Air War Over America, the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) general who finally ordered interceptor jets scrambled on 9/11, although too late, Gen. Larry Arnold, revealed that he ordered one of his jets to fly down low over the Pentagon shortly after the attack there that morning, and that this pilot reported back that there was no evidence that a plane had hit the building. This fighter jet − not Flight 77 − is almost certainly the plane seen on the Dulles airport Air Traffic Controller’s screen making a steep, high−speed 270−degree descent before disappearing from the radar. [When a plane flies low enough to go undetected, it is said to be "under the radar."] Military pilots − like the one sent by Gen. Arnold on 9/11 to report on the Pentagon’s damage − are trained to fly 500 feet above ground in order to evade radar detection. In fact, when the Air Traffic Controller responsible for the plane and her colleagues watched the extremely difficult 270−degree maneuver on her screen, they were certain that the plane whose blip they were watching perform this extremely difficult feat was a US military aircraft, and said so at the time. It almost certainly was. Thus, the likely reason the Pentagon has refused to lower the current official time for "Flight 77" impact, 9:37, to 9:32 am−the actual time of the first explosions there−is that they decided to pretend the blip represented by Arnold’s surveillance jet approaching just before 9:37 was "Flight 77."'

Note: I cannot agree with certain personal theories of this researcher.

Since the fighter was directed to the Pentagon AFTER the crash and circled at +/- 500' at whatever speed it is not unreasonable to think that the pilot would not see a plane in the debris.  Images taken from ground level don't show any aircraft, just parts.  So why is this a mystery to anyone in the audience?

As to the video presented by the NTSB of the FDR data, I am only able to say that path does not meet the evidence and therefore is incorrect.  I'm sure that Truther site Pilots for 9/11 Truth website was very happy to show this to attempt to "prove" the official story was fake/fraud.  But still the video is wrong whether it was produced by NTSB or not, IT DOESN'T FIT THE EVIDENCE. 

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bknight
15 hours ago, RubyGray said:

Why can you not understand that real-time video evidence of Lloyde and his cab at the cemetery wall, concurrently filmed, by 4 independent sources, from 4 different vantage points,, trumps any of that "evidence" you believe in?

Since they were already prepared to move Lloyde's cab 350 yards down the road, within 8 minutes, with a waiting TOWTRUCK and low loader trailer,

and as soon as that was organised, they got the Secretary of Defense's own bodyguard to drive around, locate this cabbie he did not know, among all the congested traffic and onlookers on the highway, and take him to the bridge site to reunite him with his cab, within 15 minutes of impact,

so that a military photographer could take a series of photographs lining them up with a downed lightpole and the fire in the Pentagon,

in order to create the public delusion that a lightpole on the bridge had been hit by a plane then smashed into Lloyde's windshield before that plane continued in a beeline for the hole in the building --

then how can you possibly deny premeditation, precision planning, collusion and culpability by the government, military and police?

The FDR data came from a plane whose cockpit door was never opened during the Flight, and whose Flightpath was over 400 feet too high AGL to have hit anything.

There was no Serial Number from the FDR - which was "found" in 3 different locations at various times by several different people - identifying this plane as N644AA. Nor was a Serial Number found on any other piece of wreckage, to confirm that this was N644AA.

According to the official NTSB data, N644AA never left the ground that morning.

PLEASE GO BACK AND WATCH THE AARON RUSSO VIDEO!! He was a good man, already dying, with nothing more to lose, with insider knowledge about 9/11 being a false flag operation coordinated by the illuminati.

Where do you "find" this information?  From Pilots for 9/11 Truth, a known Truther organization. The FDR had a serial number, whether the NTSB obtained it from the FBI is not a valid argument, except by truthers.  If as you say the NTSB data N644AA never left the ground, then why was the errored flight plan released? Or why did the NTSB publish a report concerning the crash? 

https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/pentagonattackpage2

http://www.911myths.com/AAL77_fdr.pdf

Al  this smoke it another anomaly that truthers like yourself seem to favor and "they raise questions to the event", because they contain/don't contain data.  The evidence is there, all one has to do is look.  The FBI was the lead investigator in this event, since I was a crime.

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RubyGray

You are looking at this backwards.

Try saying it this way ...

"The EVIDENCE does not fit all the EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY, nor the NTSB's OFFICIAL FDR DATA, and it is ABSOLUTELY CONFOUNDED BY THE VIDEOS SHOWING LLOYDE ENGLAND'S CAB WAS HIT BY A POLE 400 YARDS NORTH OF THE BRIDGE, therefore ...

"... the EVIDENCE MUST HAVE BEEN FAKED!!!"

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RubyGray
2 minutes ago, bknight said:

The FBI was the lead investigator in this event, since I was a crime.

This is what is referred to as the FOX BEING IN CHARGE OF THE HENHOUSE.

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bknight
3 hours ago, RubyGray said:

You are looking at this backwards.

Try saying it this way ...

"The EVIDENCE does not fit all the EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY, nor the NTSB's OFFICIAL FDR DATA, and it is ABSOLUTELY CONFOUNDED BY THE VIDEOS SHOWING LLOYDE ENGLAND'S CAB WAS HIT BY A POLE 400 YARDS NORTH OF THE BRIDGE, therefore ...

"... the EVIDENCE MUST HAVE BEEN FAKED!!!"

The evidence doesn't fit your belief, that is why you try so hard to convince others that shaky, blurry hazy videos prove any point you are trying to make.  Those images could be interpreted as anything, your choice is to prove Mr. England correct, although I'm not sure which version he is right.

The evidence isn't faked, except in truther minds.  How do you account or the downed light poles and the generator damage IF the northern route was correct?

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bknight
3 hours ago, RubyGray said:

This is what is referred to as the FOX BEING IN CHARGE OF THE HENHOUSE.

I'm not defending the investigation, I merely relate what/why it happened that way.  If you suspect fraud/fake then I suggest you write the FBI, NTSB and accuse them.

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RubyGray
4 hours ago, bknight said:

The evidence doesn't fit your belief, that is why you try so hard to convince others that shaky, blurry hazy videos prove any point you are trying to make.  Those images could be interpreted as anything, your choice is to prove Mr. England correct, although I'm not sure which version he is right.

The evidence isn't faked, except in truther minds.  How do you account or the downed light poles and the generator damage IF the northern route was correct?

You have got to be kidding yourself!

There are FOUR VIDEOS totalling MANY SECONDS of Lloyde England's cab, attested by Lloyde England himself, by the damage to his cab, plus the detailed first-person testimony of numerous credible eyewitnesses, some of whom are also confirmed on location in real-time videos ...

versus ...

TWO BLURRY FRAMES from Gatecam videos allegedly showing a 757, on a flightpath which NOBODY SAW!!

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RubyGray
5 hours ago, bknight said:

I'm not defending the investigation, I merely relate what/why it happened that way.  If you suspect fraud/fake then I suggest you write the FBI, NTSB and accuse them.

Another fox in charge of the henhouse, is Captain Aubrey Davis of the Pentagon Force Protection Agency in Maryland.

If you have any information about possible terrorism plots against the Pentagon, he wants to know all about it.

You remember him?

He was Donald Rumsfeld's bodyguard on 9/11, who was sent to collect Lloyde from the highway, drive him back to his relocated cab, and supervise him while the official photos were taken of them next to a downed lightpole which was not hit by any plane, and which had nothing to do with the damage to Lloyde's cab.

THAT Aubrey Davis.

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bknight
3 hours ago, RubyGray said:

You have got to be kidding yourself!

There are FOUR VIDEOS totalling MANY SECONDS of Lloyde England's cab, attested by Lloyde England himself, by the damage to his cab, plus the detailed first-person testimony of numerous credible eyewitnesses, some of whom are also confirmed on location in real-time videos ...

versus ...

TWO BLURRY FRAMES from Gatecam videos allegedly showing a 757, on a flightpath which NOBODY SAW!!

I guess you forgot these 104 that saw the flight traverse the accepted flightpath, except by truthers.

https://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/911pentagonflight77evidencesummary

Shaky, blurry hazy videos might prove about any contention, but not really.

 

 

 

 

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bknight
3 hours ago, RubyGray said:

Another fox in charge of the henhouse, is Captain Aubrey Davis of the Pentagon Force Protection Agency in Maryland.

If you have any information about possible terrorism plots against the Pentagon, he wants to know all about it.

You remember him?

He was Donald Rumsfeld's bodyguard on 9/11, who was sent to collect Lloyde from the highway, drive him back to his relocated cab, and supervise him while the official photos were taken of them next to a downed lightpole which was not hit by any plane, and which had nothing to do with the damage to Lloyde's cab.

THAT Aubrey Davis.

You have failed to produce any evidence that he was sent to collect/supervise Mr. England, although I asked politely.

Now you claim the light pole was not struck by any plane.  Do you have any evidence of this or are you just throwing it out to see if something sticks.  What caused the damge to Mr. England's cab?  Was it a top-secret pole launching device?  The more you post the worse your position looks.

You know I asked you what you thought happened at the Pentagon, and you answered that you don't owe me anything.  So I did a little research over at ISF.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141769&page=2

Post #67

Say rubygray, that's quite a post there but if you don't mind, would you indulge me by answering another question?

Do you believe AA Flight 77 was deliberately flown into The Pentagon by Muslim terrorists on 09/11/2001?

Thanks in advance.

Post #68 --You

Nope.

So we all know now how your feelings towards the events, but we all guessed your position.

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RubyGray
7 hours ago, bknight said:

You have failed to produce any evidence that he was sent to collect/supervise Mr. England, although I asked politely.

No, YOU have failed to read what I have posted.

Such as Post #2012.

For some reason which nobody is prepared to explain, this site does not permit posting more than a single image for  ... how long? Hours? Other sites have no such liimitations, which makes it much simpler to explain stuff elsewhere.

At 9:42 a.m., Rumsfeld's bodyguard was trotting along beside his boss as he helped carry his first victim to the ambulance. 2 videos show this from north and south.

As Rumsfeld delivered his second victim, the bodyguard was waiting on the sidelines next to the highway, talking on his handheld radio and grinning as he watched the towtruck exit the bridge onto the northwest cloveleaf. This is seen on one video that I know of.

At 9:48 and 9:49 in Jason Ingersoll's photos DSC_0412 and 0413, the brown jeep has driven up ontop the top of the brodge, and it is approaching Lloyde ENgland, sho is standing in the HOV lane on the northern side of the bridge.

By 9:52 a.m. in DSC_0415, the bodyguard is pulling up on the southbound lanes of the bridge, near Lloyde England's cab.

At 9:52 a.m. in DSC_0416, the bodyguard has gotten out of the cab, and is standing near Lloyde's cab.

At 9:55 a.m. in DSC_0419, both Lloyde and the bodyguard are seen on the bridge with the brown Jeep and Lloyde's cab.

By definition, the bodyguard of the Secretary of Defense is answerable to and required to be in attendance of his boss at all times.

Davis did not know Lloyde England, so it is a mystery how he could have been there with Lloyde at all, and how he recognised him on the highway, or made the connection between Lloyde and the damaged cab.

This is proof of collusion and premeditation. There is absolutely no reason for this guy to have left the side of Rumsfeld and collected Lloyde then babysat him during the photo opp with his cab and an impossible pole on the bridge. And all within 10 minutes! While people are still dying in the Pentagon!

Of course he was "sent" by Rumsfeld.

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bknight
3 hours ago, RubyGray said:

No, YOU have failed to read what I have posted.

Such as Post #2012.

For some reason which nobody is prepared to explain, this site does not permit posting more than a single image for  ... how long? Hours? Other sites have no such liimitations, which makes it much simpler to explain stuff elsewhere.

At 9:42 a.m., Rumsfeld's bodyguard was trotting along beside his boss as he helped carry his first victim to the ambulance. 2 videos show this from north and south.

As Rumsfeld delivered his second victim, the bodyguard was waiting on the sidelines next to the highway, talking on his handheld radio and grinning as he watched the towtruck exit the bridge onto the northwest cloveleaf. This is seen on one video that I know of.

At 9:48 and 9:49 in Jason Ingersoll's photos DSC_0412 and 0413, the brown jeep has driven up ontop the top of the brodge, and it is approaching Lloyde ENgland, sho is standing in the HOV lane on the northern side of the bridge.

By 9:52 a.m. in DSC_0415, the bodyguard is pulling up on the southbound lanes of the bridge, near Lloyde England's cab.

At 9:52 a.m. in DSC_0416, the bodyguard has gotten out of the cab, and is standing near Lloyde's cab.

At 9:55 a.m. in DSC_0419, both Lloyde and the bodyguard are seen on the bridge with the brown Jeep and Lloyde's cab.

By definition, the bodyguard of the Secretary of Defense is answerable to and required to be in attendance of his boss at all times.

Davis did not know Lloyde England, so it is a mystery how he could have been there with Lloyde at all, and how he recognised him on the highway, or made the connection between Lloyde and the damaged cab.

This is proof of collusion and premeditation. There is absolutely no reason for this guy to have left the side of Rumsfeld and collected Lloyde then babysat him during the photo opp with his cab and an impossible pole on the bridge. And all within 10 minutes! While people are still dying in the Pentagon!

Of course he was "sent" by Rumsfeld.

No, you have provided no proof that Mr. Rumsfeld sent his body guard to collect/supervise Mr. England.  All you have provided are comments on images.  Nowhere is a link from either Mr. Rumsfeld or the body guard that Mr. Rumsfeld instructed him(the body guard) to go and do those activities.  Whether you believe that he should be at the scene of the accident or not is evidence, just wild speculation.

So if you don't believe that "AA Flight 77 was deliberately flown into The Pentagon by Muslim terrorists" then what do you believe happened?

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Trelane

This is insane. Some nebulous story that has ,in fact, been long debunked and discredited is the basis for this bloated thread continuing. I'm actually surprised how anyone after all these years wants to bite on this B.S.

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RubyGray
34 minutes ago, Trelane said:

This is insane. Some nebulous story that has ,in fact, been long debunked and discredited is the basis for this bloated thread continuing. I'm actually surprised how anyone after all these years wants to bite on this B.S.

There is nothing insane or nebulous about physical evidence of the taxi attested by the driver himself, plus numerous credible eyewitnesses (priest, police sergeant, detective, Pentagon staff etc) and recorded in real time on numerous independently filmed videos.

Lloyde England's story has NEVER been discredited or debunked. Sure, many people have misrepresented his story, and defamed him mercilessly on the basis of lies falsely attributed to him, but nobody before has ever investigated it from LLOYDE'S OWN STATEMENTS.

The govt is still intending to prosecute another Arab individual for his alleged role in 9/11, seeking the death penalty, after all these years. Meanwhile, the real perpetrators enjoy power, prestige, and wealth.

Did you watch that AARON RUSSO VIDEO yet? He describes his friendship with NICK ROCKEFELLER, who tried to recruit Russo into the Council on Foreign Relations, but he would have none of it, nor of the illuminati plan to microchip every person in the world in order to totally control every citizen as the ultimate goal of the NEW WORLD ORDER so beloved of the Bushes snr & jnr.

Rockefeller warned Russo a year in advance, that there would be a staged "event" to be employed as the pretext for the phony "War on Terror", a war without an enemy, a war that would have no end, but the goal of accessing foreign oilfields and wealth, and controlling Middle East nations, in the furtherance of their One World Government and Cashless Society.

I'm actually surprised how anyone after all these years is so naive and gullible as to believe a handful of Arabs were the masterminds and sole perpetrators of 9/11.

WAKE UP!!!!!!

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RubyGray
11 hours ago, bknight said:

No, you have provided no proof that Mr. Rumsfeld sent his body guard to collect/supervise Mr. England.  All you have provided are comments on images.  Nowhere is a link from either Mr. Rumsfeld or the body guard that Mr. Rumsfeld instructed him(the body guard) to go and do those activities.  Whether you believe that he should be at the scene of the accident or not is evidence, just wild speculation.

So if you don't believe that "AA Flight 77 was deliberately flown into The Pentagon by Muslim terrorists" then what do you believe happened?

Oh grow up.

The bodyguard  of the Secretary of Defense cannot just wander off on his own, looking for stray strangers who might want a ride back to their misplaced vehicle that the bodyguard knows nothing about, while the country is "under attack", and his compatriots are still suffering, dying and rescuing people inside the Pentagon.

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Trelane
7 minutes ago, RubyGray said:

There is nothing insane or nebulous about physical evidence of the taxi attested by the driver himself, plus numerous credible eyewitnesses (priest, police sergeant, detective, Pentagon staff etc) and recorded in real time on numerous independently filmed videos.

Lloyde England's story has NEVER been discredited or debunked. Sure, many people have misrepresented his story, and defamed him mercilessly on the basis of lies falsely attributed to him, but nobody before has ever investigated it from LLOYDE'S OWN STATEMENTS.

The govt is still intending to prosecute another Arab individual for his alleged role in 9/11, seeking the death penalty, after all these years. Meanwhile, the real perpetrators enjoy power, prestige, and wealth.

Did you watch that AARON RUSSO VIDEO yet? He describes his friendship with NICK ROCKEFELLER, who tried to recruit Russo into the Council on Foreign Relations, but he would have none of it, nor of the illuminati plan to microchip every person in the world in order to totally control every citizen as the ultimate goal of the NEW WORLD ORDER so beloved of the Bushes snr & jnr.

Rockefeller warned Russo a year in advance, that there would be a staged "event" to be employed as the pretext for the phony "War on Terror", a war without an enemy, a war that would have no end, but the goal of accessing foreign oilfields and wealth, and controlling Middle East nations, in the furtherance of their One World Government and Cashless Society.

I'm actually surprised how anyone after all these years is so naive and gullible as to believe a handful of Arabs were the masterminds and sole perpetrators of 9/11.

WAKE UP!!!!!!

I read everything you posted (lots or repletion and a lot of lost time). I watched the original Russo video about 11 years ago. Nothing in all this has resulted in any discernible evidence of what you support. A CT that categorically was debunked a decade ago. None of this which you have repeated ad nauseum has any substance outside of your desire for it to be true. The accounts of former co-workers who were first responders and the associated trauma and injuries they acquired that day is far more real and tangible than the alleged tale of Lloyd the cab driver.

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bknight
11 hours ago, RubyGray said:

Oh grow up.

The bodyguard  of the Secretary of Defense cannot just wander off on his own, looking for stray strangers who might want a ride back to their misplaced vehicle that the bodyguard knows nothing about, while the country is "under attack", and his compatriots are still suffering, dying and rescuing people inside the Pentagon.

You may believe what you wish, however you have provided no link in testimony of either man that Rumsfeld told the security guard to go and collect/supervise Mr. England.  Nor have you shown except in jerky/blurry videos that your allegation has any truth.  

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Daughter of the Nine Moons
19 hours ago, RubyGray said:

WAKE UP!!!!!!

 

19 hours ago, RubyGray said:

Oh grow up.

@RubyGray I understand you are passionate but please a little bit more civility.

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RubyGray
9 hours ago, bknight said:

You may believe what you wish, however you have provided no link in testimony of either man that Rumsfeld told the security guard to go and collect/supervise Mr. England.  Nor have you shown except in jerky/blurry videos that your allegation has any truth.  

The application of logic, and watching of the videos which clearly show both Rumsfeld and Davis (and the rest of the security detail) closely observing this charade being played out on the highway as Rumsfeld merely pretends to care about the severely burned victims he is carrying, is far greater proof of their involvement in this premeditated psy-op, than the  grand total of TWO blurry screenshots being "proof" that Hank Hanjour flew AA77 into the Pentagon.

You are merely kicking tyres here, having no actual answer for this damning evidence that 9/11 was committed against its own loyal hardworking citizens, by the US government and cohorts.

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RubyGray
20 hours ago, Trelane said:

I read everything you posted (lots or repletion and a lot of lost time). I watched the original Russo video about 11 years ago. Nothing in all this has resulted in any discernible evidence of what you support. A CT that categorically was debunked a decade ago. None of this which you have repeated ad nauseum has any substance outside of your desire for it to be true. The accounts of former co-workers who were first responders and the associated trauma and injuries they acquired that day is far more real and tangible than the alleged tale of Lloyd the cab driver.

The only thing "alleged" about Lloyde England's story is the official version of it.

None of his own true story was ever "debunked", because nobody ever dealt with his story before.

Why do you think that your repeated references to those colleagues and first responders, somehow cancels the significance of the fact that Lloyde England was a 9/11 victim, cynically targeted and shot at By his own government? All those people were just as dead and wounded, whoever did it.

Don't you think that the victims deserve to know who their real enemy was on that world-changing day?

Don't you think the millions of people in the Middle East whose loved ones were slaughtered on the strength of this pretext, deserve to have the truth revealed?

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Obviousman
On 10/25/2019 at 1:03 AM, RubyGray said:

You are looking at this backwards.

Try saying it this way ...

"The EVIDENCE does not fit all the EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY, nor the NTSB's OFFICIAL FDR DATA, and it is ABSOLUTELY CONFOUNDED BY THE VIDEOS SHOWING LLOYDE ENGLAND'S CAB WAS HIT BY A POLE 400 YARDS NORTH OF THE BRIDGE, therefore ...

"... the EVIDENCE MUST HAVE BEEN FAKED!!!"

Reminds me of that old fraud, Jack White, when he said words to the effect of:

'I'm happy to examine evidence that proves the the Apollo landings were real but since the landings were faked, any evidence that says they were true must also be faked and therefore it is a waste of my time to examine such evidence.'

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Trelane
7 hours ago, RubyGray said:

The only thing "alleged" about Lloyde England's story is the official version of it.

None of his own true story was ever "debunked", because nobody ever dealt with his story before.

Why do you think that your repeated references to those colleagues and first responders, somehow cancels the significance of the fact that Lloyde England was a 9/11 victim, cynically targeted and shot at By his own government? All those people were just as dead and wounded, whoever did it.

Don't you think that the victims deserve to know who their real enemy was on that world-changing day?

Don't you think the millions of people in the Middle East whose loved ones were slaughtered on the strength of this pretext, deserve to have the truth revealed?

It was and you can find it really anywhere.

I think it because I have seen them. They are real people with real scars, with real emotions. Lloyd is a phantom that no-one has decided to champion . I would ask that you be more judicious with the term 9/11 victim. I was at ground zero in NYC for four weeks, I'm sure I have seen and gone though more than the curious cab driver.

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