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Hurrikane

Civil Service Reform

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Hurrikane

Do you think there is a need for significant reform of the US civil service system? If so, what would you do?

Also, I am looking for proposed reforms to civil service recently does anyone know of any?

-Hurrikane

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rashore

I dunno what reforms are currently out there, but what would I do??

Allow people who owe the government taxes to work them off by performing civil services- one flat rate of "pay" for everyone who participates, no matter what the job is. If they are road crew, put them to work on roads. If construction, put them to work building/fixing government buildings. If they are office folks, put them to work doing government office work. If they are doctors, put them to work in "universal health care clinics".

People who have been collecting unemployment or welfare for X amount of time, cough up some man hours in civil services to work for the "paycheck" Uncle Sam is handing out. All sorts of same types of jobs like paying off your taxes.

Allow people to volunteer to do civil services akin to volunteering in the military. There's people out there that would like to serve their country, but can't hang with the whole guns thing. They get paid like soldiers get paid, and if they want to be a "career" civil servant, they can do so as "enlisted". If the want to be civil management, they have to go through "officers" school, just like in the military that distinguishes between enlisted and officers.

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ninjadude

People who have been collecting unemployment or welfare for X amount of time, cough up some man hours in civil services to work for the "paycheck" Uncle Sam is handing out.

Generally this will not work because they would not be qualified to do those jobs.

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Generally this will not work because they would not be qualified to do those jobs.

Where the dog is buried. As a rule Civil Service needs people just as qualified as the free market, and given the amount of additional rules and regulations sometimes with more will to dedicate their time to the job.

Somebody who has no chance on the free market does not either in Civil Service, if we exclude low paying jobs like Park Ranger or Commissary stocker. But people in those are quite unwilling to leave them.

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ninjadude

If I understand, that was my point. You can't just fall into a Civil service job. There are requirements. Just like the private sector. Many people think these are just stupid jobs that anyone can get. That is not the case.

And just because I was interested, there are requirements for park ranger..

Competition exists for Park Ranger positions in all grade levels. The starting salary for summer Ranger hires with a college degree is a GS-4 ($18,687); Permanent Ranger hires are GS-5 ($20,908) to GS-9 ($31,680) depending on college degrees and experience. How To Apply

Applicants should contact the appropriate office having jurisdiction over the area of interest to inquire about vacant positions. An avenue of entry is provided through the Administrative Careers With America, an OPM program which provides applicants with the opportunity to compete through an examination. Park Ranger positions come under Group VI, Law Enforcement and Investigation, in this program. Undergraduate and Graduate Education: Major study - natural resource management, natural or earth sciences, history, archeology, anthropology, park and recreation management, law enforcement/ police science, social or behavioral sciences, museum sciences, business or public administration, sociology, or other closely related subjects pertinent to the management and protection of natural and cultural resources, and deemed applicable to job performance. General Experience: is administrative, professional, technical, investigative, or other responsible work which provided a familiarity with natural or cultural history, fish, or wildlife habitat characteristics, techniques of resource protection and use, recreational use of public lands and facilities, enforcement of laws, rules, or regulations, fire prevention and suppression, or the practice of interpersonal relations skills in dealing with the general public. Pertinent work experience in substantive and relevant aspects of secretarial, clerical, or trades and crafts is also qualified. Nonspecialized tasks and those of a routine nature, such as typing, filling, and maintaining records is not qualifying. Specialized Experience: is work which demonstrated the knowledge, skills, and abilities necessary to perform successfully, the duties of the position to be filled. Experience may have been in technical, administrative, or scientific work, fish and wildlife management, recreation management, law enforcement, or other park-related work.

source

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rashore

Generally this will not work because they would not be qualified to do those jobs.

Hey never can tell... An out of work welder who put in 20 years of work before the company shut down might be skilled enough to help repair a bridge. An out of work office gopher might have the skills to file paperwork and answer phones. An out of work food processor might have the skills to help the FDA inspections of machinery. An out of work engineer or tool and die maker might be skilled enough to check over tank blueprints or spec out gyroscopes for airplanes.

Ok, I know who the gyroscopes is an overstatement- I know who the last tool and die maker is that could do that, and she's retired, and machines do it now.

A welfare mother might just have the skills to work as a daycare person to help take care of kids while their unemployed parents are going off to work on their civil service. A welfare father might have the skills to do janitor duties at a government building.

There's a lot of people that are collecting unemployment or welfare that are totally skilled or talented, it's just that there aren't private sector jobs in their area that are hiring. IMO it's grossly unfair of people to assume that just because someone is on unemployment or welfare, that means they don't have skills. Shame on you Ninja and Question for assuming or suggesting people on unemployment or welfare do not have skills.

I wouldn't suggest pairing a person with a job they aren't skilled at. Like having a welder that is collecting unemployment tackle the job of proofing tank blueprints, or having an engineer tackle welding on a bridge.

Yes, I understand that some folks are utilizing these programs because they are totally unskilled or totally untalented. But a lot of people, especially those collecting unemployment, do have a skill- otherwise they wouldn't have a job that was lost in the first place in a manner that entitles them to collect unemployment.

Hell, maybe some of the talented/skilled people could be utilized to teach untalented/unskilled peoples. Like an out of work welder could teach people how to weld and so on.

Edited by rashore

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A welfare mother might just have the skills to work as a daycare person to help take care of kids while their unemployed parents are going off to work on their civil service. A welfare father might have the skills to do janitor duties at a government building.

.

Not quite:

Education and training. The training and qualifications required of child care workers vary widely. Each State has its own licensing requirements that regulate caregiver training. These requirements range from less than a high school diploma, to a national Child Development Associate (CDA) credential, to community college courses or a college degree in child development or early childhood education. State requirements are generally higher for workers at child care centers than for family child care providers.

Read more

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ninjadude

Hey never can tell... An out of work welder who put in 20 years of work before the company shut down might be skilled enough to help repair a bridge. An out of work office gopher might have the skills to file paperwork and answer phones. An out of work food processor might have the skills to help the FDA inspections of machinery. An out of work engineer or tool and die maker might be skilled enough to check over tank blueprints or spec out gyroscopes for airplanes.

Ok, I know who the gyroscopes is an overstatement- I know who the last tool and die maker is that could do that, and she's retired, and machines do it now.

A welfare mother might just have the skills to work as a daycare person to help take care of kids while their unemployed parents are going off to work on their civil service. A welfare father might have the skills to do janitor duties at a government building.

There's a lot of people that are collecting unemployment or welfare that are totally skilled or talented, it's just that there aren't private sector jobs in their area that are hiring. IMO it's grossly unfair of people to assume that just because someone is on unemployment or welfare, that means they don't have skills. Shame on you Ninja and Question for assuming or suggesting people on unemployment or welfare do not have skills.

I wouldn't suggest pairing a person with a job they aren't skilled at. Like having a welder that is collecting unemployment tackle the job of proofing tank blueprints, or having an engineer tackle welding on a bridge.

Yes, I understand that some folks are utilizing these programs because they are totally unskilled or totally untalented. But a lot of people, especially those collecting unemployment, do have a skill- otherwise they wouldn't have a job that was lost in the first place in a manner that entitles them to collect unemployment.

Hell, maybe some of the talented/skilled people could be utilized to teach untalented/unskilled peoples. Like an out of work welder could teach people how to weld and so on.

OK I understand what you're saying now. But in today's conservative "I hate government" raise no taxes, deficit ridden governments, who's gonna pay for these jobs? Governments are looking to cut jobs (stupidly) not increase them,.

OR, Are you advocating that unemployed get priority as over the general public for any government jobs listed? Or something else?

We do not collect unemployment insurance because we are unskilled but because we have lost our jobs. As I understand it, you can't get unemployment unless you've worked. The money comes from your former employer.

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OK I understand what you're saying now. But in today's conservative "I hate government" raise no taxes, deficit ridden governments, who's gonna pay for these jobs? Governments are looking to cut jobs (stupidly) not increase them,.

While now it is too late as there are few ways to spend oneself out of debt (none that I know), the proposal has a merit. The government could actually "hire" these low qualified people to get a better qualification by going to school. Works great in Denmark and Germany. But that is a program you start in good times, not when the train is off the track.

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rashore

Ok, gonna answer quick since my pizza is almost done, and I didn't knead that dough for nothing, lol...

Some folks are useless, yeppers.

But who's gonna pay for the jobs? Uncle Sam. Crap, already pay out for months and years of unemployment and welfare benefits. Should it be a bad thing when Uncle Sam says, hey, give me some hours of your skills in return?

I don't suggest this be a long term job situation. But rather, if you want to claim government monies, you should be willing to give up hours in service to the government needs in work to pay for the check you are getting.

And unemployment... There's only oh so far that the employer pay in pays for it. If a person is collecting unemployment for a few months, yeppers, that's part of the kiddie pool that the employer pays in for. But I know people that have been on unemployment for a year or two- and at the salary they were making when employed, how much unemployment pool does that really cover? Like if a person is making 12 an hour, how many months of employer paying into unemployment even at the cut rate does that cover before the government starts picking up the tab?

OK, gonna go off now before my pizza crust turns from golden to inedible...

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ninjadude

But who's gonna pay for the jobs? Uncle Sam.

never happen in the US current political climate.

Crap, already pay out for months and years of unemployment

It's my understanding that it's 99 weeks but it may vary by state.

I don't suggest this be a long term job situation. But rather, if you want to claim government monies, you should be willing to give up hours in service to the government needs in work to pay for the check you are getting.

unemployment is a pittance. (Again varies by state). It certainly is nothing compared to a real government job. That's like comparing pennies to dollars.

But I know people that have been on unemployment for a year or two- and at the salary they were making when employed, how much unemployment pool does that really cover?

In illinois (to my knowledge) the max is less than 400 per week for a single person. You could make a million a year and it would be less than 400 dollars a week. And it only goes for a number of weeks. Ever hear of the 99ers? That's for the 99 weeks that you get. Two years would be 104 weeks. So no that is not possible. Unemployment insurance is not a salary and not meant to replace salary. It is simply some SMALL amount of money that you get to keep from being completely destitute. And it is no where close to a real government job salary. Any work you get and you loose it.

Unemployment Insurance (UI)

Unemployment insurance is a state-operated insurance program designed to partially replace lost wages when you are out of work. Like fire, accident, health and other types of insurance, it is for an emergency: when you are temporarily or permanently out of a job, or if you work less than full time because of lack of work.

The program ensures that, if you meet the eligibility requirements of the law, you will have some income while you are looking for a job, up to a maximum of 26 full weeks in a one-year period. Unemployment insurance, however, cannot and does not protect you against wage losses while you are absent from work due to illness or while you are idle by choice.

source

people have some pretty funny (funny wrong) ideas about what unemployment insurance does.

</h2><h2>Update on Federal Extended Unemployment Insurance Programs

On 12/17/2010, President Obama signed legislation, extending the emergency unemployment compensation (EUC) and extended benefit (EB) programs.

Under the legislation, the number of weeks of unemployment benefits available to an Illinois claimant will still generally range from a minimum of 26 to a maximum of 99; however, not everyone will be entitled to the maximum number of weeks. The number of payable weeks of EUC and EB depends on whether an individual meets the EB and EUC eligibility criteria, when an individual's claim was initially filed and the federal phase out rules.

The legislation does not extend the total number of weeks beyond 99

Edited by ninjadude

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rashore

Ok Ninja, you seem to have a better grasp on employment than I do...

How do people scam the system then? Like I was dating a guy in Chicago, and his roommate collected unemployment for the 2 1/2 years that I knew him. Only reason I know is because the guy would brag about it, because he would be taking his unemployment and was working a cash under the table job- and so would go out drinking and dancing every night and still have the money to pay his part of the bills.

He's the only person that I know of that did this, but because of him I assumed unemployment was longer than apparently it's supposed to be.

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Paracelse

People who have been collecting unemployment or welfare for X amount of time, cough up some man hours in civil services to work for the "paycheck" Uncle Sam is handing out. All sorts of same types of jobs like paying off your taxes.

Just a tiny reminder that unemployment and welfare a two distinct form of revenue. To receive unemployment one has first to invest in the system. It's to the same as welfare. Although in North America being unemployed is not well perceived, being on unemployment means that you are just collecting what you have paid.

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Paracelse

OK I understand what you're saying now. But in today's conservative "I hate government" raise no taxes, deficit ridden governments, who's gonna pay for these jobs? Governments are looking to cut jobs (stupidly) not increase them,.

OR, Are you advocating that unemployed get priority as over the general public for any government jobs listed? Or something else?

We do not collect unemployment insurance because we are unskilled but because we have lost our jobs. As I understand it, you can't get unemployment unless you've worked. The money comes from your former employer.

Some of your pay also goes to unemployment benefits.

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ninjadude

Ok Ninja, you seem to have a better grasp on employment than I do...

How do people scam the system then? Like I was dating a guy in Chicago, and his roommate collected unemployment for the 2 1/2 years that I knew him. Only reason I know is because the guy would brag about it,

I have no idea. Maybe his "bragging" was exactly that. Untrue.

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Uncle Sam

What about the diabled who are not being hired? I been turned down so many times it isn't funny. I applied for everything, even spent years of my life getting an degree, but that doesn't matter anymore. All because I am deaf, everything that I did, everything I worked for is nullified. If the government gave me a job, I would take it without hesitation. I mean I need the job badly...

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What about the diabled who are not being hired? I been turned down so many times it isn't funny. I applied for everything, even spent years of my life getting an degree, but that doesn't matter anymore. All because I am deaf, everything that I did, everything I worked for is nullified. If the government gave me a job, I would take it without hesitation. I mean I need the job badly...

See the PM I send you.

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