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Sakari

Females are aborted in India..Boys prefered

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Yamato

i'm pro-choice because this world IS grossly unfair to women. Women are 52% of the population and only 5% of the wealth.

that alone causes severe injustices. In my mind, an umbilical cord has been used as a leash (economically and physically). if we really valued motherhood, we would give each mother a salary (so she doesn't have to get an external job). let's put our money where our mouths are.

but this is off topic....

I do not favor aborting children on basis of sex (or any other demographic) society needs a massive overhaul in its thinking.

Here in the US, we devalue volunteer work so much it's free. And social workers? Among the worst paid employees in the country. So perhaps our value adjustment needs more of an overhaul than one limited to a single gender.

These expansions of the topic make for a much more energetic, entertaining, and knowledgeable discussion don't you think? Keeping within the bounds of the content of an original article is so limited and boring, we're left with little more than stating our opinions about it. Even if that's all I did, I'd have to get my opinion from somewhere, and I'm willing to bet it comes from my own environment, not India's. Unless we're lucky enough to have a citizen from India here, the hundreds of relevant insights we would have are lacking.

Speaking of valuing motherhood, actually what a "woman's right to choose" really means is "a mother's right to choose". The woman down the street is not going to tell me, the expectant father, the when, where, how or why to abort my baby. So it's the mother that gets the power on this issue legally already, not "a woman". Though, if the fact that the woman has to carry the baby in her own body is the reason that puts people on the "pro-choice" bandwagon as oft-stated, I wonder if they support the right of the surrogate mother to change her mind.

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HerNibs

After watching that disturbing video.. I was not in a kidding sort of mood...................I wonder if those little baby girls shown were really dead? I turned it off once I saw what looked like an abortion... I cannot bare to watch that.. It is too sick...So sorry, I just couldn't get into a joke mood.. and normally I love to joke around..I have lost a little girl myself and when I see this it makes me feel sick...

Hi BM *hugs*

I watched the video. No, the baby girls weren't dead. They were breathing. The scene you thought was an abortion was actually a birth (the woman's family were NOT happy about it being a girl).

The entire idea horrifies me as well and I am strongly pro-choice.

Nibs

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Mainpoint

Wow, this was news to me.....Sick fricken people.

http://news.yahoo.co...t-27566497.html

this is the dark side of hinduism.

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Beckys_Mom

Sorry if you found my post offencive, it was intended as satire against a very male orientated society.

It's ok....I just noticed your joke seconds after I had watched the video in horror.. ........It's really ok.. I am sorry for acting so touchy ..

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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libstaK

After watching that disturbing video.. I was not in a kidding sort of mood...................I wonder if those little baby girls shown were really dead? I turned it off once I saw what looked like an abortion... I cannot bare to watch that.. It is too sick...So sorry, I just couldn't get into a joke mood.. and normally I love to joke around..I have lost a little girl myself and when I see this it makes me feel sick...

Thats understandable it is horrendous, for the record I didn't watch the vid - I've seen enough of what goes on over there in docos etc. It makes me feel sick too, more even because it is often the husbands MOTHER that pushes her daughter in law around as much as the men and forces her to have the abortion, unbelievable.disgust.gif

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Beckys_Mom

BM I also lost a daughter - my only child many years ago - and I would give anything to have her back... I agree that this is not a subject that lends itself well to jokes...

Me too...I still think of her..wishing I could have done something... I was shocked at this subject, I had no idea that India was that brutal ..and doing it for the money? It is like treating little girls like cattle and ironically they treat their cattle ( cows) with more respect for life and protect them... This has IRONY written all over it

Hi BM *hugs*

I watched the video. No, the baby girls weren't dead. They were breathing. The scene you thought was an abortion was actually a birth (the woman's family were NOT happy about it being a girl).

The entire idea horrifies me as well and I am strongly pro-choice.

Nibs

Thank you Nibs....... So, she gave birth to a girl.. and they were not happy...did you see why happens next? Did they just kill the infant anyway?................ See the video was saying they kill over 50,000 female babies each year... and the only way you can tell if they were females in the womb is after a 20-22 week ultrasound.. and by that time the baby is fully formed.... I know this I have recently seen my own ultrasound ... ......... So for them to kill the baby girls while still in the womb.. those baby girls are fully formed .........and it says they also kill the babies at birth................ They have NO compassion....doing this for money in the future is absurd and evil ........... Ironically they treat the gils like cattle and treat the cattle like precious beings... I mentioned this above

Muslims do this too..... read this...

PAKISTAN: More than 1200 newborn baby girls killed and dumped in the garbage last year

But those are only the corpses found. Hundreds more never are. At a morgue in Pakistan's largest city, five linen pouches, each the size of a loaf of bread, line the shelf of a walk-in freezer. Wrapped inside each small sack is the corpse of an infant. The babies are victims of what one relief agency calls Pakistan's worst unfolding tragedy: the killing and dumping of newborns.

CNN (Story & Video)"Sometimes they hang them, and sometimes they kill by the knife, and sometimes we find bodies which have been burned," said Anwar Kazmi, a manager at Edhi Foundation, Pakistan's largest privately run social service and relief agency.

Records at Edhi Foundation show that more than 1,200 newborns were killed and dumped in Pakistan last year, an increase of about 200 from the previous year. Families view many of these children as illegitimate in a culture that condemns those born outside of marriage. Statistics show that roughly nine out of 10 are baby girls, which families may consider too costly to keep in a country where women frequently are not allowed to work

"Girls are seen as a burden, seen as a property which belongs to somebody else so people see that as a waste of money and the wasting of an education of a girl," said Bhagyashri Dengle, executive director of a nonprofit for children. "Then when the girl gets married, the families have a big, heavy dowry. So that is one of the reasons here." http://barenakedisla...bage-last-year/

It is a sick world we live in..truly is...What's worse, is when people make up weak excuses for killing and slaughtering innocent babies at birth...

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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Just Dave

Some races are just sick and nonhumane.... Why the hell aren't they using normal law, just go to the girl and ask her out or for a phone number, not selling her. OH MY GOD THIS TRADITION IS FALSE,CRIME,EVERYTHING WRONG! All because of filthy money... Human race really fails if it's not wars it's discrimination!!!

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Taun

Me too...I still think of her..wishing I could have done something... I was shocked at this subject, I had no idea that India was that brutal ..and doing it for the money? It is like treating little girls like cattle and ironically they treat their cattle ( cows) with more respect for life and protect them... This has IRONY written all over it

Yes it is very ironic... They treat cattle with respect as they believe that transmigrating souls exist in the animals (I may be a bit weak on my theology here - so bear with me)... yet they show such a monumental lack of respect for the souls that are in the human animal!!

Once - many, many years ago - dowry's were not a bad thing... indeed in many cultures the dowry was originally intended to be a financial safety net for the woman should her husband die, or should they seperate (the dowry was supposed to pass to her in those instances)... Not sure if this was the case in India or not... But the dowry has apparently outlived it's usefullness, and now is actually a life threatening situation for the unborn/newborn...

I won't get into a debate on abortion... but I firmly believe that using it in these instances is (IMO) no less than murder... much less those poor children that were so heartlessly killed after birth...

Another thing... earlier someone commented to the effect that this (abortion for gender selection) might be a way to control population... I'm not certain if a culture can survive such a drastic 'culling' of either gender... Sure your population will drop... but can it pull out of the nose dive it will take in the following generations?... You will effctively have bred your population to be more prone to producing one gender over the other - for a permanent gender imbalance... I'm not a geneticist (or a great speller!) so I'm not 100% certain it would happen... but it does seem to be heading toward permanent gender imbalance...

(off soapbox)

Edited by Taun

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Beckys_Mom

I won't get into a debate on abortion... but I firmly believe that using it in these instances is (IMO) no less than murder... much less those poor children that were so heartlessly killed after birth...

I see it as wrong.. Only time I support abortion IF there is a life threatening situation... Not because they just don't want it.. There are many women who cannot have babies and would give anything to have just one...

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Sakari

And people b**** when the US bombs 3rd world countries.......Is it really such a loss?

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DieChecker

I watched a show on TV just the other day on this. Dateline, I think. They said the practice of aborting female fetuses became widespread after ultrasound technology became widely available. They showed one street in Mumbi, I think, that had several blocks of just ultrasound clinics that would diagnos a woman as having a boy or girl. And then doctors offices just down the street from there that would all sign off on abortion of females as being needed for the mothers "health".

There is even a place called the Village of No Women, due to this practice being put into effect that the only women are the mothers of boys, no young girls exist in the village.

http://m.ibtimes.com/india-40-million-missing-girls-problem-gendercide-267181.html

It is a very sick thing.

On the radio the other day, there was an advertisement of Anti-Abortion that said that 85% of women contemplating abortion change their minds if given an ultrasound first. The reverse is happening in India. A shocking percentage of pregnancys that have an ultrasound showing a girl result in a choice for abortion.

IMHO, this can only lead to violence, as men will compete for very few women. Historically nations that had surpuses of men did very badly and almost always ended up going to war with a neighboring state, sending people out to colonys, or having violent cultural revolution.

I see it as wrong.. Only time I support abortion IF there is a life threatening situation... Not because they just don't want it.. There are many women who cannot have babies and would give anything to have just one...

Agree!

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Beckys_Mom

I watched a show on TV just the other day on this. Dateline, I think. They said the practice of aborting female fetuses became widespread after ultrasound technology became widely available. They showed one street in Mumbi, I think, that had several blocks of just ultrasound clinics that would diagnos a woman as having a boy or girl. And then doctors offices just down the street from there that would all sign off on abortion of females as being needed for the mothers "health".

There is even a place called the Village of No Women, due to this practice being put into effect that the only women are the mothers of boys, no young girls exist in the village.

http://m.ibtimes.com...ide-267181.html

It is a very sick thing.

Aye, I saw that too on the video... it is a sad sad place to be...Evil runs riot on this planet...

And people b**** when the US bombs 3rd world countries.......Is it really such a loss?

I gotta admire your honesty... ...If all the evil people were wiped out.. I don't think it would be a loss.

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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Taun

I see it as wrong.. Only time I support abortion IF there is a life threatening situation... Not because they just don't want it.. There are many women who cannot have babies and would give anything to have just one...

My father once told me that graveyards are full of people who've argued politics and religion... Later in life I realized he was right...

The number of people who've had their view points on these topics (to include abortion) changed by an on-line discussion is most likely a very, very small number - so I usually don't try...

However, my opinion is the same as yours on this issue... for what that's worth...

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lucifer_reborn_amen

And people b**** when the US bombs 3rd world countries.......Is it really such a loss?

You really outdid yourself with that one man. Females are not aborted all over India. There are of course a few villages in India where they are aborted. Most of these people are uneducated and barely scrape by. They prefer having sons because they think that a son can bring some income home when he grows up and can take care of the family. Whereas, if a girl is born, it is very expensive for them because most of the women are restricted to cooking and cleaning and also they have a cough up a lot of money as dowry when they get them married.

I am not saying what they do is right. It is absolutely wrong but I think you should try to see things from their point of view as well before making such irresponsible statements.

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lucifer_reborn_amen

Aye, I saw that too on the video... it is a sad sad place to be...Evil runs riot on this planet...

I gotta admire your honesty... ...If all the evil people were wiped out.. I don't think it would be a loss.

And who has the right to wipe out all the evil people in the third world countries by bombing them? Is it the angelic United states? Oh wait.. I think they are doing that already. :sleepy:

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Beckys_Mom

And who has the right to wipe out all the evil people in the third world countries by bombing them? Is it the angelic United states? Oh wait.. I think they are doing that already.

And? rolleyes.gif

My father once told me that graveyards are full of people who've argued politics and religion... Later in life I realized he was right...

The number of people who've had their view points on these topics (to include abortion) changed by an on-line discussion is most likely a very, very small number - so I usually don't try...

However, my opinion is the same as yours on this issue... for what that's worth...

Great minds think alike

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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lucifer_reborn_amen

And? rolleyes.gif

Great minds think alike

Have you run out of things to say? It is easy for you to sit where ever you are and judge people by what they do. Maybe you should also try to understand why people do the things they do and it might not be as horrific as it is to you now.

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lucifer_reborn_amen

And people b**** when the US bombs 3rd world countries.......Is it really such a loss?

Aye, I saw that too on the video... it is a sad sad place to be...Evil runs riot on this planet...

I gotta admire your honesty... ...If all the evil people were wiped out.. I don't think it would be a loss.

Great minds definitely do think alike. :w00t:

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Beckys_Mom

Have you run out of things to say?

Yes, when I normally read some ridiculous statement that have... NO point made.. I have to bite my tongue and just roll my eyes at the silliness of what I am reading at the time...

Maybe you should also try to understand why people do the things they do and it might not be as horrific as it is to you now.

Killing defenceless babies is horrific.. REGARDLESS of their reason.. and never tell me what I should do..ok? ........ It gets absurd when people expect you to accept killings and show understanding.. how absurd can this planet get? No one will tell me what I should accept or understand.. more so when it comes to slaughtering babies...

Great minds definitely do think alike. :w00t:

As long as it doesn't match yours.. I am fine with that yes.gif

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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lucifer_reborn_amen

Yes, when I normally read some ridiculous statement that have... NO point made.. I have to bite my tongue and just roll my eyes at the silliness of what I am reading at the time...

Killing defenceless babies is horrific.. REGARDLESS of their reason.. and never tell me what I should do..ok? ........ It gets absurd when people expect you to accept killings and show understanding.. how absurd can this planet get? No one will tell me what I should accept or understand.. more so when it comes to slaughtering babies...

As long as it doesn't match yours.. I am fine with that yes.gif

Don't bite your tongue too hard.. You might not be able to say anything when you really want to :devil: .Killing defenseless babies is definitely horrific and I definitely did not ask anyone to accept it. But it is the reality and there are various reasons for that reality which I suppose you wouldn't even make an attempt to find out because you would rather just ignore it and cry foul. The planet is absurd all over or is it heaven where you are?

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Beckys_Mom

.Killing defenseless babies is definitely horrific and I definitely did not ask anyone to accept it.

Asking one to show understanding for it... is absurd and no one will tell me what I should do in these situations...When I have lost a baby girl.. I cannot ever show understanding towards those killing hem at random..... You can look down on anyone and throw comments at those who would love the evil to go away all you like... but frankly.. I see no real logic in that

. From one of the articles posted it speaks of - > Hanging infants at birth, slitting their little throats...burning some of them alive.. and you want me to show understanding? .... You seem too keen on coming on to judge others who would love the evil to stop and go away .. I see no real logic in that at all

I suppose you wouldn't even make an attempt to find out because you would rather just ignore it and cry foul

I have read the many articles on it giving their reasons WHY and watched the video... I do not feel I should show understanding so quit nagging me about it... ....... Many people live in poverty but do not slaughter or kill their babies as a result

The planet is absurd all over or is it heaven where you are?

We are not perfect but we do not kill babies by the 1000 or more each year....Enough said

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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lucifer_reborn_amen

Asking one to show understanding for it... is absurd and no one will tell me what I should do in these situations...When I have lost a baby girl.. I cannot ever show understanding towards those killing hem at random..... You can look down on anyone and throw comments at those who would love the evil to go away all you like... but frankly.. I see no real logic in that

. From one of the articles posted it speaks of - > Hanging infants at birth, slitting their little throats...burning some of them alive.. and you want me to show understanding? .... You seem too keen on coming on to judge others who would love the evil to stop and go away .. I see no real logic in that at all

I have read the many articles on it giving their reasons WHY and watched the video... I do not feel I should show understanding so quit nagging me about it... ....... Many people live in poverty but do not slaughter or kill their babies as a result

We are not perfect but we do not kill babies by the 1000 or more each year....Enough said

I did not ask anyone to show understanding and pity either. I don't know where you got that from. Evil does not go away by throwing comments around and ignoring it. I think you have to first understand why there is evil and how we can eradicate it.If bombing a third world country is your idea of eradicating evil, I would think you are nuts. You cant just wish it would go away either. Because if you can, it wouldn't exist would it?

Killing of babies occur all over the world but for different reaons I guess. My link

Who is this we you are talking about? Is it you or your country or what?

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Beckys_Mom

I did not ask anyone to show understanding and pity either.

You were asking me why don't I show understanding ?.. you said nothing about pity... And I will tell you once more.. I will never show understanding to killing innocent babies like it or not

Evil does not go away by throwing comments around and ignoring it

Evil can never be ignored.. but one doesn't have to agree it should stay.. People can wish it would go away.and I along with others who agree own the rights to state how we feel.. whether you like it or not.....A lot of religious will pray for the evil to say away... all harmless unless you feel they are wrong too??...............I admire anyone who would love evil to vanish...but see we know it won't.. no harm in wishing.. unless you wish to peg wishing as some sort of crime now? .........Ever try showing understanding towards those of us that do not like the idea of killing babies? Or would you rather just look down on us and tell us all we should just be understanding towards killing babies?......Is it just a one way street??

think you have to first understand why there is evil

I know why there is evil ..and I know it never will go away..

.If bombing a third world country is your idea of eradicating evil,

I never once said they should be bombed.. In fact I never used those words... I admired a guy for using his honesty.. and I stand by it... Not many will be so honest...So your point is what? ................I took from his post - Would there be much of a loss if the evil was gone?.. So I have to use my honesty and say - No.. there wouldn't be much of a loss if evil was to go... I said NOTHING about bombing anyone !!

I would think you are nuts.

And I would loose sleep over what you thought..really?

You cant just wish it would go away either

People make wishes every day.. not all come true... People have a right to wish what they feel is right... It causes no harm.. it is just wishing..

Because if you can, it wouldn't exist would it?

It would be excellent if you could wish evil away for real.. .......but unfortunately that in reality will never happen.. pity though... Many people would love to rid the world of evil.. Well people with morals that is..!!!

Who is this we you are talking about? Is it you or your country or what?

You asked if it was heaven where I am.. I gather you meant my country.. who else?

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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lucifer_reborn_amen

You were asking me why don't I show understanding ?.. you said nothing about pity... And I will tell you once more.. I will never show understanding to killing innocent babies like it or not

Evil can never be ignored.. but one doesn't have to agree it should stay.. People can wish it would go away.and I along with others who agree own the rights to state how we feel.. whether you like it or not.....A lot of religious will pray for the evil to say away... all harmless unless you feel they are wrong too??...............I admire anyone who would love evil to vanish...but see we know it won't.. no harm in wishing.. unless you wish to peg wishing as some sort of crime now? .........Ever try showing understanding towards those of us that do not like the idea of killing babies? Or would you rather just look down on us and tell us all we should just be understanding towards killing babies?......Is it just a one way street??

I know why there is evil ..and I know it never will go away..

I never once said they should be bombed.. In fact I never used those words... I admired a guy for using his honesty.. and I stand by it... Not many will be so honest...So your point is what? ................I took from his post - Would there be much of a loss if the evil was gone?.. So I have to use my honesty and say - No.. there wouldn't be much of a loss if evil was to go... I said NOTHING about bombing anyone !!

And I would loose sleep over what you thought..really?

People make wishes every day.. not all come true... People have a right to wish what they feel is right... It causes no harm.. it is just wishing..

It would be excellent if you could wish evil t away for real.. ..but unfortunately that in reality will never happen.. pity though... Many people would love to rid the world of evil.. Well people with morals that is..!!!

You asked if it was heaven where I am.. I gather you meant my country.. who else?

Can you show me where exactly I asked people to show understanding about why these babies are murdered? All I said was, you have to look at it from their point of view and understand why they do it. I did not mean we should show them sympathy.

So you agree that evil wont vanish even if you wish for it. Wishful thinking :unsure2: Would you rather just wish and wish instead of doing something about it if it bothers you so much?

Sakari was talking about the US bombing third world countries. Does that mean all third world countries are evil and you agree with him for being so honest and stand by what he said? Im sorry but were you talking about people with morals? :w00t:

Which country are you from because I would love to read about how your country attained eternal bliss :yes:

Edited by lucifer_reborn_amen

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Taun

A person does not need to understand the "why" of evil deeds...

I do not need to understand 'why' a person chooses to murder another (and that is what this is)... It is murder... I do not need to understand it to despise it...

The question should be - not do you understand these evil actions - but what can be done to stop them...

And don't try and tell me "we have to understand it to stop it"... No truely sane, compassionate person in our society CAN understand something as heinous as this... (If they could understand it... I would be concerned for them...)

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