White Crane Feather Posted June 19, 2015 #1276 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) The authors of the resource I posted relate everything (lucid dreaming, sleep paralysis, meditation, Astral Projection, etc) to what they call the "phase" and put it all on a spectrum of sorts. Like White Crane Feather said, if the info is good it works. Whatever the exact process is behind what happens in "the phase" (or meditation, lucid dreams, OOB, AP, etc ad nauseam) I feel it is all intra-related, (Note, not inter-related, but intra) though I am curious to see what thoughts others have For White Crane Feather-- a few pages back I saw that you had sucess with a seated meditation into an OOB. I am extremely interested in this and would like to know more, if you would be willing to share I had a chance to look the book over. The info seems sound. In would caution their claims of success though. There is a very strong language used in their material that reminds me of hard sales. I think this is done on purpose so the reader can feel confident which is good. The problem lies in their Classes and a typical psycological response to group think and authority. I have encountered it myself. Lots of people willing to attend a class in a formal setting want to achieve this much more than the average person. When I used to visit a wicken group and present, seriously about half the class would claim they had an exit simply in the practice sessions which was simply designed to show them how to do it on their own. I knew most of not all did not have a real OBE. Despite my continued insistance that this is not an imagined phenominon, some still think its all daydreaming. Anyway the formal setting creates people that act out false success. Now online and through messageing I have tried to assist hundreds of people over the last five or so years, and they are much more honest. It's more difficult than the book makes it out to be, but they are totally right. Most the time when people are struggling, it's because they simply are not listening to a key bit of advice. I can't tell you how many times I have reminded people to make their atempt after they have awakened only to find out that they are still trying to do it at night before bed. Then there is an excuse (valid or not) that they just don't have time in the morning. Coachability is a factor. I'm also concerned about the lak of personal development. I can tell you from experience that without working on oneself, the alteres states can be tumultuous. But again they are right that it can open up fantastic new posabilities. I have been able to access creative sides of myself that are astounding and I have learned to view conciousnes from a completely different context. Obtaining OBEs while not prone came because I learned the coridoors of my mind. After so many OBEs and discoveries I learned how to "change directions in my mind" now this is really important to understand. I put that term in quotes becuase there is no language for what I have learned how to do. To access various states youturn left instead of right or go up instead of down." But these are not directions they are places in your mind. Again I struggle for words because there are no real reference points to describe. Imagine trying to exsplain the color teel to a blind person. Learning how to navigate like that i can access different states of conciousness including OBEs. Some states with more success than others. Essentially I know the space for OBEs and can now with increasing succes go straight there and bypass all the methodology. I don't have to be as relaxed as I used to be nor do I need to be close to in or out of REM. There are other states aswell. I can create a waking hypnogia. I can walk around physically while in a full visionary state. But let me tell you, it's not for the feint of heart. You essentially put yourself in a state of lucid insanity. Without the right exsperince and control the waking mind is full of all kinds quirks. I can also put my body into a full state of exacy. Like a massive orgasim all over your body even your face. No I don't do it that often. What follows is ego dissolution that I don't particukarly like. I have tried to figure out how to show people how to navigate their mind like this, but I have come to the conclusion that it can only be personally discovered through personal meditation and exploration. Essentially despite being a teacher my entire life I can't teach anyone to do any of it. Only encourage them and help them to overcome the hurdles. Be careful. My mind has changed in the last ten years. My sensory abilities to create experiences are very over active now. I'm certain I have grown the part of my brain used to create Exsperinces and there are some signifigant consequences. Examples: I have an employee and student that I care very much about. She is very allergic to peanuts. Even a wiff can send her into anafelectic shock. Eveytime kids start opening up lunches or food around her I actually smell a very strong peanut smell even though there is non. If I hear she is going somwhere that she could be exspose to peanuts, I will smell it also. Her mother loves me because I'm always Makeing sure her environment is devoid of peanuts something she has been doing all her life. I have to because the simple thought of it creates the peanut smell exsperience. I'm exsperiencing it now just writting about it. I can't tell if there are really peanuts around anymore or not, so essentially I have lost the ability to detect peanuts because my brain recreates the exsperience every time. I don't think this is a good thing. We have tolerances and blocks in our minds for a reason. I also hear my kids in white noise. I can't take a shower without hearing my children in the water. I hear them talk and I hear them call for me long before they actually come upstairs to see where I'm at. I have visionary exsoerinces when I meet people. A tiny body movement ( because I teach martial arts I'm particularly sensitive to body movements) will creat an entire scenerios in my mind that tell me about the person. A dip of the eye, and turn of the shoulder can tell me a young girl is afraid of men, has an agressive father, and her mother has her in my program precisly so that she can see that other men don't behave how her dad does. I don't just know these things I experinence him yelling at her, I feel her wanting to stay at school instead of going home, and yes I can even smell the alcohol. A man sitting in a car watching my classes, from his hair, how his eyes watch the class through the window, his body language, the body language of the girl next to him how he is sitting. I know he is a martial instructor from Southern California, and the woman next to him is one of his students that he started dating. Again I don't just know these things, I have actual experiences of him being in class, I see the couple talking before they were daeting. I see him in the mirror making sure his hair looks the way it does and that he is copying a famous person from Europe. I know that she likes him more than he likes her. I know that he already has somone ekse in mind after he is done. I can write this off as my add mind, but then I know the exact body language the will draw him. I wave and nod as if I know him. Sure enough they both come in. He introduces himself. He is martial arts instructor from southern California. He likes the way I am teaching my classes ( true) because that's the way he does things too ( not true) he is telling me this as part of his "charm". I smile to act like it's working, so does she knowing he is blowing smoke up my ass. As part of the conversation I bring up my wife and that I met her in martial arts precisly to check if I was right about how they met. I am. Now I'm not claiming to be psycic. I think areas of my Brian have developed experiential responses to stimulus and subconscious deductions precisly from all the meditation and altered state exsploration. Sorry I'm rambling. But even my math abilities have qudruppled. I'm considering going back and perusing advanced degrees in mathmatics because I can see things and relationships much more clearly now. My blood pressure has also doubled for no apparent reason. It fluctuates wildly. I'm now being medicated because no matter what I did I could not get it down. Several weeks ago it was almost critical. But It makes sense I probably have an adrenal response to every person I meet. Only when I'm alone in the woods does it naturally go down. Anyway. The reason I'm telling everyone this is so that you are fully informed of the benefits and draw backs of opening up your mind. It's no game folks nor is it a hobby. This is your brain you are messing with. I must deal with dreams that take months to finish, and spirit guides/psycological constructs/angles ( whatever you choose to call them) that create areas in my mind to shelter me from the onslaught of information. They literally hide me from my dreams so I don't have to deal with a months of information in a single nite when I wake up. Yet I can put a scared little girl and her mom at ease instantly with only the slightest smile, kneel on my left knee not my right so that my eyes are below hers and she knows I'm not like her dad. And I know exactly what she needs from me. I know when my car has been targeted for burglary becuse I have kids and won't chase them if I catch them. The tiniest flash of white is a human predictory response I can identify nearly as far as I can see their face. I know the guy shopping next to me is the look out for the guy stealing the change out of my astray. What he dosnt know is that I left the door unlocked so that he would not break my window. My two little boys are not oblivious. I have ready told them a bad guy will riffle through our car. I told them to keep quite but watch. Anyway I could go on. I experience amazing things daily good and bad. I don't even go OBE that much anymore. Life is a dayly adventure, but im rambling. The biggest benefit is that my kids think I know everything, my students love me, and wife knows I see the world differently. The biggest draw back is that it's affecting my health: I'm certain this crazy blood pressure issue is a result of all this. But it seems to be under control at the moment with medication: Take care. Edited June 19, 2015 by White Crane Feather 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Naismith Posted June 19, 2015 #1277 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I had a chance to look the book over. The info seems sound. In would caution their claims of success though. There is a very strong language used in their material that reminds me of hard sales. I think this is done on purpose so the reader can feel confident which is good....I'm also concerned about the lak of personal development. White Crane Feather I totally agree with you. That is why when I first introduced it I described the book and their claims as "militant" since I couldn't think of another word. I also mentioned that I felt like their focus was less on spiritual development--which it seems you also felt. Glad we both evaluated the source in similar ways I appreciated your personal experiences as well. Thank you, as always Still hoping to hear more about your meditation-into-AP experience Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted June 22, 2015 #1278 Share Posted June 22, 2015 White Crane Feather I totally agree with you. That is why when I first introduced it I described the book and their claims as "militant" since I couldn't think of another word. I also mentioned that I felt like their focus was less on spiritual development--which it seems you also felt. Glad we both evaluated the source in similar ways I appreciated your personal experiences as well. Thank you, as always Still hoping to hear more about your meditation-into-AP experience Cheers! Les see. I was at my school. I had been atempting to OBE without lying down for a while. It never seemed to work well becuse I was still trying to do it via ridding the edge of conciousness. I started meditating at my school in the mornings after workouts. While meditating I found an "opening" a place I had not been to yet. I moved into it and I felt the beginnings of a seperation. I sepperated and floated up through the ceiling. Then I took a short flight over the lake and around the foothills. That's about it. Nothing crazy other than I learned where the sweat spot was no spirit guides or anything. I can get back anytime now, however it takes a while to get my mind just right for the opening to be there. I find it much quicker just to wake up and do the standard methods. It's easier. Though I find thought form ability to be much more powerfu this way. I sat out on a rock once and I drew four rock men straight out of the rocks. Thought forms and I gave them autonomy to act like dream characters. They were to fight me. I spent the morning in meditation on that rock "physically" practicing martial arts on golem like creators I had created. It was very fun. But I really have to be alone with plenty of time on my hands. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Naismith Posted June 25, 2015 #1279 Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) They were to fight me. I spent the morning in meditation on that rock "physically" practicing martial arts on golem like creators I had created. It was very fun. But I really have to be alone with plenty of time on my hands. That. Is freaking awesome. I imagine this "Sweet Spot" that you found simply comes from a familiarity with your own mind and it's meditative states? I feel like I'm on the verge of discovering...almost...I want to call them levels, but I think shelves is a better term. Almost like my consciousness is a set of shelves of unknown height and I can sometimes peer into one or two different "shelves" or levels, but that's about it. Does this sound familiar to you at all? And does anyone have any tips on getting better at exploring these different levels? Additionally, I was doing some research today and came across this. It's a book called The Astral Plane by C. W. Leadbeater of the Theosophical Society, published in 1895. I have not yet read all the way through it, but does anyone with experience in the Astral Plane see anything familiar in these writings? I've only AP'd once (and partially at that) but have been spending more time meditating lately, though I'm feeling like it's going to be time to start working on AP again pretty soon. I have read other works from the Theosophical Society and have found them to be pretty interesting, though their views on God and prayer are somewhat incongruous with mine Cheers and good feelings / thoughts for all Edited June 25, 2015 by Admiral Naismith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted June 25, 2015 #1280 Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) That. Is freaking awesome. I imagine this "Sweet Spot" that you found simply comes from a familiarity with your own mind and it's meditative states? I feel like I'm on the verge of discovering...almost...I want to call them levels, but I think shelves is a better term. Almost like my consciousness is a set of shelves of unknown height and I can sometimes peer into one or two different "shelves" or levels, but that's about it. Does this sound familiar to you at all? And does anyone have any tips on getting better at exploring these different levels? Additionally, I was doing some research today and came across this. It's a book called The Astral Plane by C. W. Leadbeater of the Theosophical Society, published in 1895. I have not yet read all the way through it, but does anyone with experience in the Astral Plane see anything familiar in these writings? I've only AP'd once (and partially at that) but have been spending more time meditating lately, though I'm feeling like it's going to be time to start working on AP again pretty soon. I have read other works from the Theosophical Society and have found them to be pretty interesting, though their views on God and prayer are somewhat incongruous with mine Cheers and good feelings / thoughts for all It does sound familure. You are on the right track. But levels for me is a bad analogy. A rainbow is a better one. There are no clear transitions. One color gently blends into another. It does take practice and focus. Discernment, and critical thinking. Edited June 25, 2015 by White Crane Feather Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted June 25, 2015 #1281 Share Posted June 25, 2015 That. Is freaking awesome. I imagine this "Sweet Spot" that you found simply comes from a familiarity with your own mind and it's meditative states? I feel like I'm on the verge of discovering...almost...I want to call them levels, but I think shelves is a better term. Almost like my consciousness is a set of shelves of unknown height and I can sometimes peer into one or two different "shelves" or levels, but that's about it. Does this sound familiar to you at all? And does anyone have any tips on getting better at exploring these different levels? Additionally, I was doing some research today and came across this. It's a book called The Astral Plane by C. W. Leadbeater of the Theosophical Society, published in 1895. I have not yet read all the way through it, but does anyone with experience in the Astral Plane see anything familiar in these writings? I've only AP'd once (and partially at that) but have been spending more time meditating lately, though I'm feeling like it's going to be time to start working on AP again pretty soon. I have read other works from the Theosophical Society and have found them to be pretty interesting, though their views on God and prayer are somewhat incongruous with mine Cheers and good feelings / thoughts for all I havn't read any of that. Robert Munroe has a very balanced apraoch and was one of the first people to really analyze what he was experiencing. "Journeys out of body" was his first book. Robert Bruce wrote a book also that is decent though Im not sure about some of his stuff. I read them after I started to go OBE to try and figure out what the hell was happening to me. I tend to lean toword more traditionally spiritualy as a spiritual platform. The journey is part of all real shamanism and has been for many thousands of years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Naismith Posted June 26, 2015 #1282 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Okay guys, something pretty scary for me just happend a few moments ago. To preface this--let me just say that I'm a self-proclaimed emetophobic. That means that I am mortally afraid of vomiting. It's a really silly fear, but it's my fear and I just can't shake it. A few traumatic experiences as a kid can really mess you up sometimes. That said, I was listening to a guided meditation tonight while resting on the couch. It was one if you're curious. I really like this guy's channel. Anyways, near the beginning, I was doing a really good job of being relaxed and I actually felt some very gentle spinning sort of vibrations--the kind I used to get a LONG time ago when just starting to meditate, but which I haven't felt in a long time. This was pleasing to me. Those gradually went away, and as the meditation progressed, I started to get very disoriented. This of course sparked a fear response and my heart started hammering (remember, nausea freaks me out) but I maintained that I was going to be fearless and see the meditation through. At a certain point in the guided narrative, the man says that you're at the point where you're about to meet your spirit guide, and that whatever is going to happen is necessary to spiritual growth. (Naturally I worried that I was going to throw up and that was necessary for my growth, which I hope it's not, but might be. eyeroll).Anyway, by this point, I was so disoriented that I could not tell which direction was up or down. I could sort of feel my legs and feet on the couch but the rest of me almost felt like it was bending backwards through the couch and just swinging there. My heart hammered faster and faster as the disorientation continued to intensify and I had to open my eyes and reorient myself to up and down and walk around some. Needless to say, my experience was over. I'm still a little shaky as I write this and the disorientation has mostly passed. It was certainly different from nausea that I have felt before when I actually was sick (I've had some digestive health problems in my day, let's just leave it at that for now) but the similarity really scared me. So, questions: Is disorientation normal and indicative of the beginnings of separation? Do I just need to (bravely) hold out longer and consciously try to separate and orient myself to the astral plane? (to dispel the vertigo-y feeling? I mean, I've had real vertigo before, and this was sorta different but still similar enough to scare me) Is something else going on? I mean, I had chinese food tonight for dinner but that was hours ago and it was pretty well cooked... And (I'm afraid to ask) but is it likely that my fear of vomiting is keeping me from progressing? Having an outlet to express these feelings is pretty cathartic and I feel a lot better. I hope to receive some of the generosity and care I've seen others receive on this thread. Thanks in advance to any responders. I know it's foolish but this was a pretty scary thing for me, despite the (hopefully) progress(?) I have made in exploring my own consciousness. I feel like I visualized myself tonight far better than I ever have, which is a step in the right direction, but bailing out right before what could have been a spiritual experience has left me pretty discouraged. Cheers, Naismith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted June 26, 2015 #1283 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Your sensations are not all that uncommon. Many many people bail out when things start to happen. Yes in altered states we are often confronted with our fears very early on in our development. Our fears boil up naturally when our minds are trying to break free. Learning to realax and just let things happen is very important. Think about being in state of conciousnes where you are pure thought. The human mind is very undisciplined, you are likely to cause yourself all kinds of chaos if you don't learn to master your thoughts and reactions, so all this is good and forward moveing. Don't be discouraged. I'm leaving forn Las Vegas for work, then I will be on a five day journey into the sierras Nevada wilderness, so I will not be able to get back to anything until about July 4. Take care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted June 26, 2015 #1284 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Hope you have a great trip WCF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted June 29, 2015 #1285 Share Posted June 29, 2015 .. Reiki is energy work, where a practitioner clears, balances and heals the chakras.. Google helped me find one locally.. There's plenty about.. All you do in show up, lay down, and... er, TBH I don't know what else they do because I was eyes closed throughout the whole thing. But basically they send healing energies through your body.. It's subtle, I guess they waves their hands about.. Lot's of people say it's all a hoax.. but the results speak for themselves as far as I'm concerned.. I had my first Reiki secession this morning. It didn't go very well. The lady I saw came highly recommended. She was a very sweet older lady. First we had a little chat about why I was there, and what I hoped to get outta the secession. I told her about my AP experiences, and told her I have been having a lot of trouble out side just a few small handful of experiences being able project. She asked me a lot of questions about my intentions, and I was very honest with her. Told her a big part of it was just about how cool it is, and how much fun. I also told her that Id eventually like to find myself in position to have experiences like White Crane talks about, where maybe I could be used to help people in whatever way I could. Things seemed to be going well. She takes me to the back and lays me down on this table. Well about 15 minutes into it she stops. I look at her and she has a troubled look on her face. So im all like, whats the matter? She stops the secession completely and asks me to sit up. She then tells me that the angels have refused to help me in the way I was asking them too. Told her they couldn't interfere with my free will. Said she has never experienced anything like it before. Said she felt like she was being choked. Then she tells me that on a subconscious level that I wasn't really there for what I told her at all. That I needed to find out what it was I was really looking for, to find the true reason I was really there to begin with. She wouldn't even take my money. Needless to say I left there with more problems then I came in with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Naismith Posted June 29, 2015 #1286 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Things seemed to be going well. She takes me to the back and lays me down on this table. Well about 15 minutes into it she stops. I look at her and she has a troubled look on her face. So im all like, whats the matter? She stops the secession completely and asks me to sit up. She then tells me that the angels have refused to help me in the way I was asking them too. Told her they couldn't interfere with my free will. My logial side responded first with: I wasn't aware that Reiki healers had anything to do with / consulted with angels--plus, it just seems strange to me that she said they said that they couldn't interfere with your free will, especially since it was your own free will that brought you to her. My non-logical side says maybe you have some soul-searching to do? I think we might be in the same boat where we want to AP so bad and perhaps are finding out that our spiritual journey will take us a different direction first? I dunno man, but I can totally empathize with the disappointment you might be feeling. Hang in there 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor T Posted June 30, 2015 #1287 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Yeah, I've only had 3 Reiki sessions, I haven't been attuned yet, so I can't say much about what happened to Preacherman76. It's a shame Blu3 seems to have moved on, she was really clued up on this kind of thing.. The Master I see, and I suspect it is the case with all Reiki masters can channel spirits as much as energy.. My experience has taught me that they quite often have to have hard conversations with their clients, I sure know that was the case with me.. By hard conversations I mean that they probably have to tell people hard facts that no one likes to hear.. So in a way, yeah, Soul searching is probably something you need to do.. Interjection by higher beings, angels, guardians ect... That kind of suggests that they are there acting on your behalf.. I recall Blu3 saying as much either in this thread or some other.. This kind of thing can happen for your benefit. It may be that a pact was made between you and your guardians before incarnation that they would not allow others to adjust your chakras.. It may be that a major lesson needs to be learned unaided.. Either way, they mystery of it is fuel your thoughts, just don't let it consume you.. Being told that on a subconscious level that you weren't really there for what you told her is another common thing.. Hell I know I've been there before, probably in this very thread if I'm not mistaken... Motivation, intention, ulterior motives.. These are qualities that we label as the reason for why we act, but they are all pretty much different.. Motivation tends to be driven emotionally, but the sponsoring emotion can be positive or a negative vibe.. As far as I can tell Intention is pure (can say I know more than a basic working knowledge on intention).. Ulterior motives are hidden and 99% of the time they are self serving.. The worse kind of Ulterior motives are the ones we carry and do not recognize in your selves.. So, yeah, that's my inexpert opinion.. On a side note though, I don't post all my experiences.. and with Reiki and having that contact with someone who channeled what I can only assume as Akashic records I have been told some very deep truths that honestly sit very deep within the psyche.. These truths were unknown to me, and yet at deeper levels, I've known them all my life...................Anyhow, don't let it be a setback. All apparent setbacks are really just opportunities to overcome and grow. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin28 Posted July 9, 2015 #1288 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Hey haven't viewed this thread in 2 year or so so i'll read through it when i have time. I've had about 4-5 obes if you want me to type them out. I should have one of them deep in the forums somewhere from around 2012-2013. I seem to get them when i'm asleep form time to time or after a strong lucid dream and you can feel its real. I had this dream a day or so ago where i became aware for a few seconds and my body felt real like it was physical. So that may have been one but shifted back into a dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin28 Posted July 14, 2015 #1289 Share Posted July 14, 2015 (edited) Hey haven't viewed this thread in 2 year or so so i'll read through it when i have time. I've had about 4-5 obes if you want me to type them out. I should have one of them deep in the forums somewhere from around 2012-2013. I seem to get them when i'm asleep form time to time or after a strong lucid dream and you can feel its real. I had this dream a day or so ago where i became aware for a few seconds and my body felt real like it was physical. So that may have been one but shifted back into a dream. Fixed: Hey haven't viewed this thread in like 2 year so i'll read through it when i have time. I've had about 4-5 obes if you want me to type them out. I should have one of them deep in the forums somewhere from around 2012-2013. I seem to get them when i'm asleep form time to time or after a strong lucid dream and you can feel its real. I had this dream a day or so ago where i became aware for a few seconds and my body felt real like it was physical. So that may have been one but shifted back into a dream.Also had about 4 lucid dreams mixed with 4-5 normal one's last night within 2 hours. I first became aware in the dream and fell back out of the dream and not sure what happened but i remember seeing these all these colors or light flash at me and was feeling the vibrations so i may have gotten out of body along with these. Edited July 14, 2015 by Kevin2211 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astral Seeker Posted July 14, 2015 #1290 Share Posted July 14, 2015 I guess you are not around here anymore, but I just wanted to say for people who might be experiencing the same problems. When I first heard of this, I tried real hard for like 6 months with almost no results. Id get a very small vib feeling from time to time, but that was it. So I gave up trying. Then about 6 months later, I used one of the meditations to help relax my muscles in my back, and BAM I got a very powerful vib out no where, and was able to have a very cool AP experience that night. Point is, It didn't happen for me till I stopped trying. After that I tried really hard again, cause I saw results. And again I had very limited results. It can be funny that way. I'm here And after struggling for 1,5 years I decided to stop trying. I was fed up. Too disappointing. Last week I decided to get back to it but to change my view. I was that much fed up with astral projection that I didn't even feel the urge to go to bed at night, it was just a moment to go and rest. So, no more pressure. Result is that I've been cracking the code for 2 days. The last 2 nights I could astral project willingly. I think that I have found my way to do it, even if the sample is ridiculously tiny. I will keep on doing what has shown success for the past 2 nights and work from there to refine and strenghten my technique. Thanks for your post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blurry Posted July 16, 2015 #1291 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Quick question, does anyone here have ADHD and/or other concentration 'problems'? (for lack of a better term.) And do you think it affects one's ability to AP? The reason why I'm asking this is because I'm struggling to keep conscious thoughts in check (chatter) after relaxing. If anyone can relate and/or share methods for improving focus, that would be great. So far I've been counting one through four repeatedly, it gets straining after a while though.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astral Seeker Posted July 18, 2015 #1292 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I'm happy that I can quite easily reach the vibrational stage. It's been a long way to get there. Unfortunately and since they're never the same, I never know what to do to be able to project. Sometimes, they are wild and strong. In those case, I don't do anything and just go with the flow and I find myself in the astral realms. a) However, recently has seen them being mild, soft. They can last quite a long time, for instance today I had them the entire morning. But I can't do anything when they are that weak. I try to strenghten them by imagining that I'm swinging or levitating but nothing works. Do you have the same problem ? Another issue is that I never know when to move (supposing that I dont go with the flow) to exit my body. So, more often then not when I try to move, this is my body which moves. Never know if I have to move as soon as they come or if I have to let them grow ? (but what if they DON'T INCREASE ?) I've found way more easy to project using the phasing method. Issue is that I don't always have dream images showing up. Sometimes I only have the vibrations and therefore I'm quite ****ed up not knowing what to do.. Do some people here have the same issue ? It is a shame because either I can project and it's cool or I'm in those vibrational swamp that I don't know how to handle. Knowing how to handle them will allow me to AP at will since I have them everyday now (which is a huge break through). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senkaku Posted August 5, 2015 #1293 Share Posted August 5, 2015 hmmm, maybe you guys can help me. i have successfully taught others how to astral travel but it doesnt work for me. my astral travels/obe's are always random and uncontrollable, its really annoying. whenever i attempt it, it doesnt work and i have been trying for a while, i honestly gave up, but i still want to do it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horta Posted August 17, 2015 #1294 Share Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) Quick question, does anyone here have ADHD and/or other concentration 'problems'? (for lack of a better term.) And do you think it affects one's ability to AP? The reason why I'm asking this is because I'm struggling to keep conscious thoughts in check (chatter) after relaxing. If anyone can relate and/or share methods for improving focus, that would be great. So far I've been counting one through four repeatedly, it gets straining after a while though.. Take this for what it's worth blurry. I'm not one who believes in the "astral" as such. Though I know the "phenomena" is real, I see very different reasons for it (it's a wholly psychological phenomena IMO). I find it fascinating none the less, if for very different reasons to most here (more to do with an interest in psychology cultural anthropology etc.). I think it's a fascinating thing that deserves more research from the academic community than it has been given. I haven't read through this whole thread to know how your trying to achieve this other than "counting one to four", but I have learnt countless techniques, meditations, visualisations and so on regarding this phenomena from those who claim to be special (spiritual masters and so on). I found them to be charlatans one and all (being a sceptic probably doesn't help ) who overstated their abilities in this area quite massively. It is not an easy thing for most people and for the more successful, can still be very sporadic. If "counting one to four" isn't working and you have given it a fair shot, try another! We are all different. The ability to maintain a gentle and relaxed awareness through the process of going to sleep is all there is to it. The rest is placebo. Easier said than done though. The problem is that it can be easy to lose this awareness and then simply drift off to sleep, or to concentrate so much that sleep becomes difficult to achieve. I don't know about things like ADHD in this regard, as I don't suffer with it. But I can see the possibility that whatever affects our ability to do this could hamper efforts, if it makes it more difficult to focus. The simplest way IMO is just to practice a gentle breathing pattern, to the point it feels very natural, to focus on while going to sleep. If we get it right, the rest seems to happen naturally. Use whatever rhythm feels good (most people will find if the out breath longer than in breath to be more relaxing). Don't only practice it at night, any time you can lay down. The worst it can do is result in a refreshing little nap. Then just be aware of your breathing when you go to sleep, letting it happen without forcing it in any way. Just let it happen and do nothing other than be aware of it, ignoring any sensations you feel (vibrations etc.). Gently bring your mind back when it tries to drift off to other things. Don't worry that it might not work, again the worst that can happen is you'll go to sleep (unless you force it and can't get to sleep). Any technique that allows you to relax and maintain some form of awareness this way is valid. There are more ways to skin a cat also. There are good methods that can help in becoming aware that you are dreaming (lucid dreaming), which is the same phenomena, with the difference that you will already be in some dream scenario at the time. Make a point of regularly looking for things that look odd, through your normal day/night. When you go outside look up at the stars in the sky. See anything odd? Every time you do look around, ask yourself..... are you dreaming at the moment? There are ways to verify whether you are, that you will probably work out. Make it repetitious throughout the day, but genuinely wonder if you really are dreaming. This repetition will eventually carry over into your dreams where you can find yourself realising you are dreaming quite regularly. There are plenty of wierd things in dreams to cue this. In fact it's possible to do this many times in the one night. Edited August 17, 2015 by Horta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted September 12, 2015 #1295 Share Posted September 12, 2015 hmmm, maybe you guys can help me. i have successfully taught others how to astral travel but it doesnt work for me. my astral travels/obe's are always random and uncontrollable, its really annoying. whenever i attempt it, it doesnt work and i have been trying for a while, i honestly gave up, but i still want to do it Gaining control in altered states is indeed difficult. The problem arises with intention and the fedback you get from and environment of pure thought. Let's say for example you want to try to put your hand through a wall. You aproach the wall and try to put your hand through it. The wall acts like a normal wall and it stops you. Why? You kne this wall is not a physical object yet it's still blocking you. The reason is becuse you tried. You aproached the task from a psycological starting point that there is a wall in front of you. The act of "trying" something is actually an affirmation of the negative. Only the reality that you are holding will manifest. You cannot aproach an environment of pure thought "trying" to do things. You have to just do it as if it were the most natural thing in the world. Not easy to do at all. A good practice you can do is to pretend you are simply grabbing something from beyond the wall and just do it naturally. If your mind is in the right place as you do it you will find that the wall is not an obstacle. This is true for all actions while OBE. It's also true why mindfulness meditations help to condition your mind to be blank to expectations. Once you can get good at just doing things without a preconceived substrate reality, then you will find much better control in the alterted state environment. Just remeber these famous lines " do not try do" and "there is no spoon". Once these concepts are ingrained as a habit and psycological base for your actions things will open up for you. But even then it's terribly easy to revert. On many ocasions I have had to stop what I was doing and steady myself back to a blank mindful state before I could continue. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted September 12, 2015 #1296 Share Posted September 12, 2015 Take this for what it's worth blurry. I'm not one who believes in the "astral" as such. Though I know the "phenomena" is real, I see very different reasons for it (it's a wholly psychological phenomena IMO). I find it fascinating none the less, if for very different reasons to most here (more to do with an interest in psychology cultural anthropology etc.). I think it's a fascinating thing that deserves more research from the academic community than it has been given. I haven't read through this whole thread to know how your trying to achieve this other than "counting one to four", but I have learnt countless techniques, meditations, visualisations and so on regarding this phenomena from those who claim to be special (spiritual masters and so on). I found them to be charlatans one and all (being a sceptic probably doesn't help ) who overstated their abilities in this area quite massively. It is not an easy thing for most people and for the more successful, can still be very sporadic. If "counting one to four" isn't working and you have given it a fair shot, try another! We are all different. The ability to maintain a gentle and relaxed awareness through the process of going to sleep is all there is to it. The rest is placebo. Easier said than done though. The problem is that it can be easy to lose this awareness and then simply drift off to sleep, or to concentrate so much that sleep becomes difficult to achieve. I don't know about things like ADHD in this regard, as I don't suffer with it. But I can see the possibility that whatever affects our ability to do this could hamper efforts, if it makes it more difficult to focus. The simplest way IMO is just to practice a gentle breathing pattern, to the point it feels very natural, to focus on while going to sleep. If we get it right, the rest seems to happen naturally. Use whatever rhythm feels good (most people will find if the out breath longer than in breath to be more relaxing). Don't only practice it at night, any time you can lay down. The worst it can do is result in a refreshing little nap. Then just be aware of your breathing when you go to sleep, letting it happen without forcing it in any way. Just let it happen and do nothing other than be aware of it, ignoring any sensations you feel (vibrations etc.). Gently bring your mind back when it tries to drift off to other things. Don't worry that it might not work, again the worst that can happen is you'll go to sleep (unless you force it and can't get to sleep). Any technique that allows you to relax and maintain some form of awareness this way is valid. There are more ways to skin a cat also. There are good methods that can help in becoming aware that you are dreaming (lucid dreaming), which is the same phenomena, with the difference that you will already be in some dream scenario at the time. Make a point of regularly looking for things that look odd, through your normal day/night. When you go outside look up at the stars in the sky. See anything odd? Every time you do look around, ask yourself..... are you dreaming at the moment? There are ways to verify whether you are, that you will probably work out. Make it repetitious throughout the day, but genuinely wonder if you really are dreaming. This repetition will eventually carry over into your dreams where you can find yourself realising you are dreaming quite regularly. There are plenty of wierd things in dreams to cue this. In fact it's possible to do this many times in the one night. They are not technically placebos Horta. They are simply tools to get the mind into the right places. That's why there are so many techniques because people are very different. No one actually thinks they are climbing a rope. It's just a tool. Writing them off because you are skeptical of people's motives is not helpful. Yes lots of fakers out there that are simply parrots, but they do not represent the tools themselves. If something works then it's good reguardless of why. The why is terribly more complicated and a hall of mirrors to exsplore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Naismith Posted September 13, 2015 #1297 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Good to hear from you as always White Crane Feather. I just started a class at a traditional Japanese jujutsu dojo and thought of you the other day. What do you practice? I agree with white crane in that I think it is important to always keep in mind that the things that happen inside of people's heads are real to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Crane Feather Posted September 13, 2015 #1298 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Good to hear from you as always White Crane Feather. I just started a class at a traditional Japanese jujutsu dojo and thought of you the other day. What do you practice? I agree with white crane in that I think it is important to always keep in mind that the things that happen inside of people's heads are real to them. Quite a few different things over the years. Traditional Japanese jujitsu? Awesome. Yes my first jujitsu I practiced was Danzan Ryu when I was about 15 years old, but that has since meshed with all kinds of grappling from Akido and judo to collegic wrestling to the the Gracie's and their methods. There is very fascinating missing material in ancient jujitsu that most never get to learn. If you meet the right teacher and you train with them long enough you will eventually learn how ancient warriors learned how to draw hidden weapons like boot daggers while they were grappling. Very fascinating and dangerous stuff that for obvious reasons is not apart of modern jujitsu programs. The art was invented by samuri because obviously striking is not that effective with a huge suit of armour on, but an arm bar can certainly disable their sword arm. Back on to the subject matter, I truely beleive my success in alteres states is directly related to my life as a martial artist. The spacial awarenss, control of natural reactions, and obviously dedication are all things that are important. The funny thing is that it's almost a clique that a martial arts master has found these things. It's even in a Chris Farley movie. Then you mix that with my native American blood and heart it's no wonder I find myself flying around quite regularly. Now I'm Definantly no saying I'm anything special, but it's just sort of a perfect storm of circumstances. I could talk for days and days about it. But I'll leave you with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcherSage Posted September 17, 2015 #1299 Share Posted September 17, 2015 I have always been able to reach the vibrational state with no problem, and sometimes in a very short amount of time. The problem has always been detaching from the physical body. I wonder if my work schedule has an effect on this, because I have heard that its best to do it early in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Naismith Posted November 10, 2015 #1300 Share Posted November 10, 2015 @whitecranefeather I don't know why I stopped getting notifications for this post, oh well. My Sensei is extremely traditional and focuses on the martial "art" rather than the martial "sport" that we see so much of today. He focuses on "level two" or the deeper meaning behind techniques, not just force and strength. I feel it helps with mindfulness and meditation, since our whole workout is a physical meditation. Back to topic-- After having taken a long break from meditation and AP, my body and mind feel like it's the right time to start getting back into it. Can anyone give a recommendation / regimen that is particularly helpful or successful to them? I'm in a really good place physically and emotionally now (I was very ill for a long time and lost 30 pounds. I just gained it back) and would like to start progressing spiritually again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now