Giza Pyramid construction

[Tom1200]

53 minutes ago, Vaz said:

Read Dunn's book would be a great help!  He goes into detail on how the granite stack would be caused to resonate after being acoustically excited.  Don't forget we know that the pyramid has missing parts.  Dunn fills in some of these gaps. We know that there are missing parts in the antechamber, missing parts in the grand gallery.  We know something of the properties of granite.  The principles are clear but some of the detail still needs to be proved.

Just saying 'I have a physics degree and this can't be done' won't really make a dent on the principle I'm afraid Tom.  The Pyramid has very well established acoustic properties that were put into the design for a reason.  Look at the architecture of the grand gallery and he corbelled ceiling.  It speaks volumes.  

Then there are the shafts that played a huge part.  Metal electrodes found in there only recently.  Again Dunn describes the role these could have played.

It all adds up to a much bigger picture.

Would that be Dunn's masterpiece "The Giza Power Plant: Technologies of Ancient Egypt" 1998?  I don't have time to read it just now, so I'll share what I found on Amazon:

Did a highly advanced civilization exist in prehistory? Is the Giza Pyramid a remnant of their technology? Then, what was the power source that fueled such a civilization? The technology of harmonic resonance, claims renowned master craftsman and engineer Christopher Dunn. In a brilliant piece of reverse engineering based on twenty years of research, Dunn reveals that the Great Pyramid of Giza was actually a large acoustical device! By its size and dimensions, this crystal edifice created a harmonic resonance with the Earth and converted Earth's vibrational energies to microwave radiation. The author shows how the pyramid's numerous chambers and passageways were positioned with the deliberate precision to maximize its acoustical qualities. This may be the same technology discovered by Nikola Tesla and the solution to our own clean energy needs.

This is just silly. 

#1.  The GP is not a crystal edifice - it's a pile of stones.  It's a mixture of different materials used for their load-bearing properties, not their atomic configurations.  The vast bulk of the pyramids is limestone which, being a sedimentary rock, does not have a crystalline structure.

#2.  Microwaves are electromagnetic radiation generated when electrons are suddenly decelerated, usually when striking a target.  You cannot generate em radiation just by shaking a stone.  

#3.  Even if #2 were possible you would have to shake the stone at a microwave frequency, between 300 MHz and 300 GHz.  An object's resonant frequency is inversely proportional to its size - larger (pyramid-sized) objects have very low resonant frequencies.  To resonate at the required frequencies would require nanometre-sized objects and even then - what good would this achieve?

#4.  There's no evidence whatsoever that Tesla built 400-foot-tall stone pyramids anywhere as part of his research.  Someone would surely have noticed?

etc.  My physics background and degree allow me to declare that there is no principle here - Dunn's ideas are worthless.  They don't work.  They can't work.  Never did, never will.  Simply labelling a diagram of a pyramid with a handful of vaguely-scientific terms does not constitute proof.  Let's remind ourselves what we're dealing with here:

About the only thing missing is the dilithium crystals!

[abhijit_b]

This is from the alternative camp, he makes total sense

 

[Kenemet]

19 hours ago, Vaz said:

Not lightning no.  Some of what the early cultures were playing with was undoubtedly dangerous and nuclear. 

However that is a different story.  The GP was constructed to maintain an artificial ecology which the people needed as the planet's natural ecology began to change.  It will change to become highly ionised again and the process has already begun.

What we think is climate change is the beginning of it.

There would be global evidence of such changes... and don't point to the end of the Ice Age as the start, because the Earth began those changes 30,000 years ago, with a spike at the Younger Dryas.  Furthermore, "high ionization" doesn't occur at lower temperatures.

This is the problem with blindly accepting the "alternative history" folks... they don't have a clue what they're talking about.

 

[Hanslune]

8 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

The changes turn it into an Ancient Egyptian Mills & Boon of sorts.

Romantic novels?

[Hanslune]

7 hours ago, Vaz said:

Looking at it from the alternative researchers point of view you have unconvincing scrawl in the upper chambers referring to 'friends of Khufu', a hotly disputed Cartouche, and a papyrus mentioning absolutely nothing any importance other than food supplies.  

That's not a water tight set of evidence.  All it does at very best is place Khufu as the inheritor. 

That opens the door for a plethora or alternative theories which is what we now have and have had for decades.  Thanks to people with specialist skills and insight we have some degree of convergence with at least some of these theories.

Namely:

The GP is much older than originally thought
It was a power plant.
It was dormant for a very considerable amount of time aftet some cataclysm and general abandonment of the area
It was reclaimed and repaired probably by Khufu who then (not entirely unjustified) laid claim to it.

The specifics of the generator itself, it's radioactive output, the reason why it was needed should be the focus of discussion. I have laid out ideas in previous posts as to how these missing pieces can be found for anyone wanting to make that journey.

I'm not claiming to be a guru of pre-dynastic Egypt, just an ordinary guy with an interest.  That's all.

Just one more hot issue to throw into the pot and that is that the same arguments apply to other sites in the world where mainstream information is highly dubious.  I'm not aware that alternative researchers claim interest in Greek or Roman artifacts.  As far as I can tell mainstream history pretty much has this stitched up.  Regarding ancient artifacts however that is a whole different story.
 

Hey Vaz

Ah there are nine cartouches not one - your fringe sources are lying to you if they say 'one'. Perhaps you should think about why they are lying to you?

The scrawl as you call it exists - but there is no writing from the Invisible civilization within and while exploring the GP other such builders marks have been found.

Similar marks were found in the 'air or star shafts

Edited October 28, 2019 by Hanslune

[Hanslune]

7 hours ago, Vaz said:

No but I'm aware of others that have.  You are probably not aware but there are a lot more interested folk now than there used to be.  Look at the youtube message boards.  The are full of ideas along these lines.  Chris Dunn's book has been out for ages now and it is a seminal work on the subject.  He wasn't the first to propose the idea but he has put more 'meat on the bone' where this subject is concerned.  I recommend his work on precision machining and the GP power plant.

Timeline:  Egypt stretching back tens of thousands of years.  50 would be close to the mark.  

The 'artifacts' from this very remote time would be the artwork depictions.  As previously mentioned, energised platforms for transport, electrical apparatus. Don't forget the unexplained stone artifacts.

Dunn's book is a work of fiction. There is simply no evidence of any advanced culture or civilization in that time frame  and no amount of wishful thinking will create it. Sorry

[Hanslune]

6 hours ago, Vaz said:

Why do you suppose the 'cartouche' only appears in a hidden place?  Does it raise suspicion?  

Not one, please try to keep up. Do some reading from something other than captions on youtube videos.

[Hanslune]

5 hours ago, Vaz said:

'Quarry Marks' stating that they are friends of Khufu?  Fair enough but back my original suggestion that this was an artifact of the repair in Khufu's time, not part of the original build.  Else why do we not see inscriptions in more visual locations?  

In fact it could conceivably lend more credence to the cartouche in that it signifies Khufu as the repairer and adopted owner.  That's another valid theory.

Then explain how he disassembled the pyramid to get to the inaccessible relieving chambers. Do you even know where the relieving chambers are? The Goyon-Grinsell mark was in the core stones so you cannot blame Vyse for that...lol

[Hanslune]

5 hours ago, Vaz said:

Creighton's refutation of the 'quarry marks' and evidence pointing to Vyse's work:

https://grahamhancock.com/creightons10/

Debunked thoroughly by the book in two volumes I noted before. Creighton is a internet engineer.

[Hanslune]

5 hours ago, Vaz said:

Translation of the Merer Paprus.

 

The rest can be found here:

https://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/2017/09/27/the-log-book-of-inspector-merer-from-wadi-al-jarf-and-the-pyramid-of-cheops-khufu/

Don't get too excited.  It doesn't say a great deal 

Only to those who are dismissive of history and of a voice from the ancient past - can you link to a similar document from the Invisible Civilization? Nope

[Hanslune]

3 hours ago, Vaz said:

I've reviewed it.  To base a historical precedent on those disputed markings isn't the least bit scientific.  

More likely when Vyse forged them, nervous Egyptologists (who probably assisted in the forgery act anyway) breathed a huge sigh of relief.

I dismiss your claim. You seem to forget that C-14 dating puts the pyramid into Khufu's age and previous ancient writers had noted that Khufu was associated with said pyramid. If the inscriptions didn't exist it would still be associated with Khufu by way of C-G and his son's name found in the boat pits and the names of his relatives found in locations around Giza. As to the Invisible Civilization not a single inscription, pottery sherd or any mention or note in the archaeological record.

[Hanslune]

3 hours ago, Tom1200 said:

Would that be Dunn's masterpiece "The Giza Power Plant: Technologies of Ancient Egypt" 1998?  I don't have time to read it just now, so I'll share what I found on Amazon:

Did a highly advanced civilization exist in prehistory? Is the Giza Pyramid a remnant of their technology? Then, what was the power source that fueled such a civilization? The technology of harmonic resonance, claims renowned master craftsman and engineer Christopher Dunn. In a brilliant piece of reverse engineering based on twenty years of research, Dunn reveals that the Great Pyramid of Giza was actually a large acoustical device! By its size and dimensions, this crystal edifice created a harmonic resonance with the Earth and converted Earth's vibrational energies to microwave radiation. The author shows how the pyramid's numerous chambers and passageways were positioned with the deliberate precision to maximize its acoustical qualities. This may be the same technology discovered by Nikola Tesla and the solution to our own clean energy needs.

This is just silly. 

#1.  The GP is not a crystal edifice - it's a pile of stones.  It's a mixture of different materials used for their load-bearing properties, not their atomic configurations.  The vast bulk of the pyramids is limestone which, being a sedimentary rock, does not have a crystalline structure.

#2.  Microwaves are electromagnetic radiation generated when electrons are suddenly decelerated, usually when striking a target.  You cannot generate em radiation just by shaking a stone.  

#3.  Even if #2 were possible you would have to shake the stone at a microwave frequency, between 300 MHz and 300 GHz.  An object's resonant frequency is inversely proportional to its size - larger (pyramid-sized) objects have very low resonant frequencies.  To resonate at the required frequencies would require nanometre-sized objects and even then - what good would this achieve?

#4.  There's no evidence whatsoever that Tesla built 400-foot-tall stone pyramids anywhere as part of his research.  Someone would surely have noticed?

etc.  My physics background and degree allow me to declare that there is no principle here - Dunn's ideas are worthless.  They don't work.  They can't work.  Never did, never will.  Simply labelling a diagram of a pyramid with a handful of vaguely-scientific terms does not constitute proof.  Let's remind ourselves what we're dealing with here:

About the only thing missing is the dilithium crystals!

Thanks Dunn's stuff is so painful amateurish Sci-fi fantasy it is remarkable anyone but the most ardent believers take it to heart.

[Windowpane]

4 hours ago, Vaz said:

... More likely when Vyse forged them, nervous Egyptologists (who probably assisted in the forgery act anyway) breathed a huge sigh of relief.

What do you mean by "nervous Egyptologists?"  Who were these people?  (Vyse made a list of his assistants and colleagues, none of whom was an "Egyptologist" -  Egyptology as a discipline did not yet exist.)

So in what way did any of Vyse's colleagues "probably assist ... in the forgery act"?  For one thing, how would they have known what to forge, and where?

 

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by Windowpane
clarification

[Hanslune]

38 minutes ago, Windowpane said:

What do you mean by "nervous Egyptologists?"  Who were these people?  (Vyse made a list of his assistants and colleagues, none of whom was an "Egyptologist" -  Egyptology as a discipline did not yet exist.)

So in what way did any of Vyse's colleagues "probably assist ... in the forgery act"?  For one thing, how would they have known what to forge, and where?

 

 

A while back Kenemet made an excellent posting about what the status of the Pyramid was and what forging would have 'done' for Vyse. I unfortunately didn't save/link to it. Basically Vyse didn't gain anything and made no great production of their finding it - Kenemet correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Quote

nervous Egyptologists

Yes that is a very funny statement thanks for catching that. Yes a non existing group would be 'nervous' about a trivial point in a science that was but a handful of year old. Nah they were more interested at that time in finding stuff for museums and trying to find Biblical links.

Its a good example of the tunnel vision that much of the fringe has 'that the GP is other only thing in ancient Egypt' our friend Vaz has noted he knows nothing about G2 and I salute his honesty in mentioning it BUT - the giant near twin of the G1 right next to it - no interest really? 'Cheese Louise' - context, context, context.

I had a thought experiment some years ago and asked a group of archaeology students this question: If all the evidence of the GP being built by the Egyptian disappeared how would or what would current archaeologist associate it with?

Answer: the AE of the Old Kingdom and no they wouldn't say it was built by an invisible civilization as there is no evidence of its existence.

 

[kmt_sesh]

7 hours ago, Vaz said:

'Quarry Marks' stating that they are friends of Khufu?  Fair enough but back my original suggestion that this was an artifact of the repair in Khufu's time, not part of the original build.  Else why do we not see inscriptions in more visual locations?  

In fact it could conceivably lend more credence to the cartouche in that it signifies Khufu as the repairer and adopted owner.  That's another valid theory.

Sorry but it's not the least valid nor  can it honestly be termed a theory.  A theory requires some measure of evidence, but the alternative argument is not supported by evidence. It cannot stand. No legitimate researcher supports the   alternative view. Nor does anyone with the training and education support the bizarre notion that Khufu "inherited" the Great Pyramid or merely "repaired" it. The beams in the  relieving chambers are weight bearing–there are hundreds of tons of masonry above them–so they are agreed to be original. So is the ancient graffiti painted on them.

[jaylemurph]

5 hours ago, Vaz said:

I've reviewed it.  To base a historical precedent on those disputed markings isn't the least bit scientific.  

Well, history *isn’t* a science, so why would it matter. It’s a bit like whining that poetry isn’t mathematically rigorous...

—Jaylemurph 

[kmt_sesh]

5 hours ago, Vaz said:

I've reviewed it.  To base a historical precedent on those disputed markings isn't the least bit scientific.  

More likely when Vyse forged them, nervous Egyptologists (who probably assisted in the forgery act anyway) breathed a huge sigh of relief.

The marks are not disputed, except by fringe fans who don't understand nor cannot even read them in the first place. Please stop turning to nutcase fringe sources and try using credible, professional, peer-reviewed literature.

[Tom1200]

3 hours ago, Vaz said:

Tom this would be a great place to start.  From the man himself.
 

 

Hi again Vaz,

Well - if that's the best this theory has to offer then it's committing suicide long before anyone with an education gets a chance to shoot it down.

Does this bloke believe any of the garbage he's mumbling about?  He stumbles over words and terms, throwing in just enough random science to convince the feeble-minded that he is presenting a coherent and plausible scenario.  

He's basically saying that the entire five squillion tonnes of pyramid is a giant maser (microwave amplification by the stimulated emission of radiation).  The nonsense about HCl, ZnCl₂, H₂, Helmholtz coils, wave-guides, wobbly granite, etc., is utterly irrelevant tripe, designed to distract the audience.  'Earth vibrations' (whatever they are - earthquakes?) will not excite hydrogen atoms into the high energy levels needed to emit microwaves.  At best they'd warm the hydrogen by a tiny fraction of a degree, which would make absolutely no difference.  

Microwaves are used to communicate with geostationary satellites because they penetrate the ionosphere and do not diffract much, maintaining a focused beam that will hit the satellite accurately.  This relies on the satellite being where it ought to be.  Mr bull****'s "just ten degrees off where one would put a geostationary satellite" might as well be a trillion parsecs.  And his parting "feedback mechanism" tells us nothing at all.  Should I repeat that?  NOTHING AT ALL. 

There is so much bad about this video that I hardly know where to give up in disgust.  Just in case you haven't understood my position could I please reiterate:

There is NO science to back up this yarn.  It is not a theory, just smoke, mirrors and waffle designed to deceive and con people.

Finally - he repeatedly claims to have reverse-engineered the technology behind this awesome machine.  Has he replicated a single effect he claims existed 4000+ years ago?  Of course not!  He is just another con artist hoping to extract money from the gullible.

RSVP? XxX

[Hanslune]

9 minutes ago, jaylemurph said:

Well, history *isn’t* a science, so why would it matter. It’s a bit like whining that poetry isn’t mathematically rigorous...

—Jaylemurph 

...nor are they required to make the association with Khufu. The C-14 dates puts it in the Old Kingdom

[kmt_sesh]

5 hours ago, Vaz said:

More likely when Vyse forged them, nervous Egyptologists (who probably assisted in the forgery act anyway) breathed a huge sigh of relief.

There was no such thing as an Egyptologist in Vyse's day and Vyse would never have known enough even to attempt a forgery. That cannot be disputed.

Please stop banging the  tired, unevidenced fringe drum and use legitimate research to inform your opinion!

[Piney]

9 minutes ago, kmt_sesh said:

Please stop banging the  tired, unevidenced fringe drum and use legitimate research to inform your opinion!

Now don't get yourself all worked up! 

[kmt_sesh]

7 minutes ago, Piney said:

Now don't get yourself all worked up! 

Too late, my friend. It bothers me no end that grown, presumably educated adults believe such silly, comic-book crap. I even get it from adult visitors at the museum. Sad, just sad!

[Piney]

13 minutes ago, kmt_sesh said:

Too late, my friend. It bothers me no end that grown, presumably educated adults believe such silly, comic-book crap. I even get it from adult visitors at the museum. Sad, just sad!

I use to have middle age adult young Earth creationists come into the Cumberland Prehistory Museum and troll me. 

[jaylemurph]

5 hours ago, Tom1200 said:

  My physics background and degree allow me to declare that there is no principle here - Dunn's ideas are worthless.  They don't work.  They can't work.  Never did, never will. 

And yet pyramidiots like Vas pay for his books and then try to spread his dreck like it has value. 
 

Really, Vas just wants praise for figuring out “what really happened” without all that tedious labor of actually learning ****. It’s childish. He wants us to back up his belief that the lies his fringe sources tell (that he’s either too ignorant to know are impossible or too invested in the Kool-Ade to walk away from) are just as valid and useful as expert opinion and documented fact. They aren’t. When he doesn’t get what he wants, he’ll leave to find other pinheads who will. 
 

—Jaylemurph 

[Windowpane]

7 minutes ago, Piney said:

I use to have middle age adult young Earth creationists come into the Cumberland Prehistory Museum and troll me. 

It's impossible in a situation like that to change someone's whole way of thinking, especially if their views are completely entrenched.  About all you might hope to do is perhaps fasten onto one particular aspect that they've got wrong, point out why it is wrong, and hope that they then review for themselves whatever theory it is that they're clinging to.