Giza Pyramid construction

[Piney]

28 minutes ago, Windowpane said:

It's impossible in a situation like that to change someone's whole way of thinking, especially if their views are completely entrenched.  About all you might hope to do is perhaps fasten onto one particular aspect that they've got wrong, point out why it is wrong, and hope that they then review for themselves whatever theory it is that they're clinging to.  

We're talking about American Evangelicals here. 

[Windowpane]

16 minutes ago, Piney said:

We're talking about American Evangelicals here. 

Oh, dear ... well ...

If people aren't going to listen, well, they're not going to listen ... 

But I think one just has to try, that's all. 

[Jarocal]

2 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

There was no such thing as an Egyptologist in Vyse's day and Vyse would never have known enough even to attempt a forgery. That cannot be disputed.

Please stop banging the  tired, unevidenced fringe drum and use legitimate research to inform your opinion!

I find it amusing that the pieces Vyse apparently used for the creation of the "forgery" would have been as important of a find as the marks he allegedly painted in the chambers.

 

[Jarocal]

48 minutes ago, Windowpane said:

Oh, dear ... well ...

If people aren't going to listen, well, they're not going to listen ... 

But I think one just has to try, that's all. 

American Evangelicals can be almost as obstinate in their beliefs as card carrying members of the Academic Cabal.

[Hanslune]

32 minutes ago, Jarocal said:

American Evangelicals can be almost as obstinate in their beliefs as card carrying members of the Academic Cabal.

..hey when did they hand out cards? I didn't get mine!

[Jarocal]

Just now, Hanslune said:

..hey when did they hand out cards? I didn't get mine!

I swiped yours from your post box. I like the 10% off at waffle house restaurants.

 

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

So to summarise - the Great Pyramid, and not any of the other pyramids, is older than recorded Egyptian history, belongs to an ancient culture that left no record or trace and is full of artwork by a later group of people, and the odd bit of forged cartouches put there by people from a time before heiroglyphs were translated in order to assuage another group of people whose specialism didn’t exist yet and is a power plant that no longer works a because it’s damaged (which is odd, because damaged power plants tend to explode rather than simply stop working)

[Golden Duck]

5 hours ago, Hanslune said:

Romantic novels?

Yes... it sound like a euphemism. 

[Swede]

14 hours ago, Vaz said:

No but I'm aware of others that have.  You are probably not aware but there are a lot more interested folk now than there used to be.  Look at the youtube message boards.  The are full of ideas along these lines.  Chris Dunn's book has been out for ages now and it is a seminal work on the subject.  He wasn't the first to propose the idea but he has put more 'meat on the bone' where this subject is concerned.  I recommend his work on precision machining and the GP power plant.

Timeline:  Egypt stretching back tens of thousands of years.  50 would be close to the mark.  

The 'artifacts' from this very remote time would be the artwork depictions.  As previously mentioned, energised platforms for transport, electrical apparatus. Don't forget the unexplained stone artifacts.

1) The readers of, and contributors to, these pages are, rather sadly, quite familiar with the likes of fringe "authors" such as Dunn, Childress, Bauval, Creighton, Sitchin, von Daniken, etc. This cadre not only prays on the ill-informed but can not even agree with each other. Endless self-serving rubbish. Nor do the informed readers and contributors of these pages rely upon silly YouTube material. Are you actually familiar with credible research?

2) Your 50 kya figure is not at all consistent with the archaeological and bioanthropological data. As a brief example, circa 50 kya H.s.s. was, in very small numbers, diffusing from Africa.

.

[Windowpane]

7 minutes ago, Swede said:

1) The readers of, and contributors to, these pages are, rather sadly, quite familiar with the likes of fringe "authors" such as Dunn, Childress, Bauval, Creighton, Sitchin, von Daniken, etc. ...

 

And a thread from wayback that discusses many of these writers ...

[Kenemet]

7 hours ago, Hanslune said:

Then explain how he disassembled the pyramid to get to the inaccessible relieving chambers. Do you even know where the relieving chambers are? The Goyon-Grinsell mark was in the core stones so you cannot blame Vyse for that...lol

...and how they got the stones in there...

[Windowpane]

1 minute ago, Kenemet said:

...and how they got the stones in there...

Presumably, the same way that they coped with the 14-ton sealing stone over the second boat pit in which several further crew-marks containing the cartouche name of Khufu were recently discovered.

[Tom1200]

2 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

So to summarise - the Great Pyramid, and not any of the other pyramids, is older than recorded Egyptian history, belongs to an ancient culture that left no record or trace and is full of artwork by a later group of people, and the odd bit of forged cartouches put there by people from a time before hieroglyphs were translated in order to assuage another group of people whose specialism didn’t exist yet and is a power plant that no longer works because it’s damaged (which is odd, because damaged power plants tend to explode rather than simply stop working)

Oh PLEASE, Sir Hats.  Left no trace?  They left a great big bloomin' pyramid!  

And not all damaged power plants explode.  The ones made out of stones, stones, stones and more stones (with no moving parts, chemicals or science) tend to just sit there for a few millennia.  Eventually someone will come along and convert it into apartments or a shopping mall.  Or an art gallery.

And 10/10 for squeezing in "assuage" without sniggering!

Edited October 28, 2019 by Tom1200

[Harte]

8 hours ago, jaylemurph said:

Well, history *isn’t* a science, so why would it matter. It’s a bit like whining that poetry isn’t mathematically rigorous...

—Jaylemurph 

Quote

At one point in Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland, Alice is trying to make sense of what’s happened to her, and she says,

“I’ll try if I know all the things I used to know.  Let me see:  four times five is twelve, and four times six is thirteen, and four times seven is – oh dear!  I shall never get to twenty at this rate!”

It sounds like nonsense, but underneath it there’s a pattern involving a progression of number bases (and in this progression, she really doesn’t ever get to “20”).  Arithmetic turns up in the poem ‘The Hunting of the Snark’, and a Möbius Strip appears in Carroll’s last novel, Sylvie and Bruno Concluded.  And throughout the Alice books and Dodgson’s other work writing as Lewis Carroll, logical absurdities create much of the humor, as in this exchange between Alice and the White King in Alice Through the Looking Glass:

White King:  They’re both gone to town.  Just look along the road, and tell me if you can see either of them.

Alice:  I see nobody on the road.

White King:  I only wish I had such eyes.  To be able to see Nobody!  And at that distance, too!  Why, it’s as much as I can do to see real people, by this light!

https://www.rfwp.com/pages/lewis-carroll-the-original-mathematical-novelist/

Harte

[Harte]

8 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

Too late, my friend. It bothers me no end that grown, presumably educated adults believe such silly, comic-book crap. I even get it from adult visitors at the museum. Sad, just sad!

One of my Geometry students today asked me about "sacred Geometry." I told him to put the entire concept completely out of his mind, unless he just enjoys feeding grifters.

He retorted that it had something to do with the Great Pyramid, so I reiterated.

Harte

[Harte]

3 hours ago, Windowpane said:

And a thread from wayback that discusses many of these writers ...

From that thread:

On 1/11/2010 at 7:14 AM, Harte said:

Kmt_sesh,

Good work. Now get ready to say it over and over again as this thread ages, since as we both know, "true believers" will ignore what you've said and even pretend you never said it!

Harte

[Vaz]

10 hours ago, Swede said:

1) The readers of, and contributors to, these pages are, rather sadly, quite familiar with the likes of fringe "authors" such as Dunn, Childress, Bauval, Creighton, Sitchin, von Daniken, etc. This cadre not only prays on the ill-informed but can not even agree with each other. Endless self-serving rubbish. Nor do the informed readers and contributors of these pages rely upon silly YouTube material. Are you actually familiar with credible research?

2) Your 50 kya figure is not at all consistent with the archaeological and bioanthropological data. As a brief example, circa 50 kya H.s.s. was, in very small numbers, diffusing from Africa.

.

I appreciate what you are saying.  It's more about planting seeds to try and get people out of the mud of modern brainwashing.  The folk here have made their hard position clear, and I respect that and I respect the people and the forum.  Just know that what you refer to as the fringe is growing and showing no signs of retreating.  As I previously said, 'the fringe' will rarely challenge mainstream over the more recent historical claims (classical and onwards).  That should tell you something.  It's only the ancient narrative and relics that is hotly disputed.

Out of respect for you all I'll withdraw for a while until I uncover more.

Bye for now.

[Windowpane]

42 minutes ago, Vaz said:

 ... t's only the ancient narrative and relics that is hotly disputed ...

A cool examination of the evidence might succeed in removing much of the heat from the dispute. 

[Vaz]

37 minutes ago, Windowpane said:

A cool examination of the evidence might succeed in removing much of the heat from the dispute. 

I don't think there is any heat.  Not from my persepective.  

Edited October 29, 2019 by Vaz

[Tom1200]

1 hour ago, Vaz said:

I appreciate what you are saying.  It's more about planting seeds to try and get people out of the mud of modern brainwashing.  The folk here have made their hard position clear, and I respect that and I respect the people and the forum.  Just know that what you refer to as the fringe is growing and showing no signs of retreating.  As I previously said, 'the fringe' will rarely challenge mainstream over the more recent historical claims (classical and onwards).  That should tell you something.  It's only the ancient narrative and relics that is hotly disputed.

Out of respect for you all I'll withdraw for a while until I uncover more.

Bye for now.

Hey!  You don't get off that easily!

It's hardly 'brainwashing' to ask that something that claims to be an amazing, awe-inspiring machine that could solve the world's energy needs might actually... do... something?

Is it brainwashing to apply knowledge and learning, rather than wishful thinking and overactive imaginations?

I don't have a position on whether the GP was a power station thousands of years ago.  I don't have a belief about this.  I've explained in simplified terms why the GP cannot, and never could, generate power, microwaves, electricity, bolloxon rays, magic, ley lines, Pringles^TM or anything else.  I don't have any qualifications in archaeology, ancient Egypt, ancient religions, ancient gods, ancient astronauts, ancient wisdom or any similar topic.  I just know what can and can't happen, by applying basics tenets of science.  And the Powermid (see wot I dun there?) can't happen.  There endeth this story.

[Hanslune]

3 hours ago, Vaz said:

I don't think there is any heat.  Not from my persepective.  

You perhaps, hopefully, gained an appreciation for NOT just believing what fringe sources tell you. Do your own research and verify what they are claiming from reliable sources.

Much of what is written for fringe consumption is for the fringe only. It is quite common to see people who read that kind of material to appear on these forums and announce what they've been told only to become confused when the folks here dismiss it.

The fringe has its own reality and trying to transfer material from that place to reality will often get you into areas where truth and reality and fringe memes cannot survive together.

Good luck in research. Let us know what you find.

[Hanslune]

3 hours ago, Tom1200 said:

I don't have a position on whether the GP was a power station thousands of years ago.  I don't have a belief about this.  I've explained in simplified terms why the GP cannot, and never could, generate power, microwaves, electricity, bolloxon rays, magic, ley lines, Pringles^TM or anything else.  I don't have any qualifications in archaeology, ancient Egypt, ancient religions, ancient gods, ancient astronauts, ancient wisdom or any similar topic.  I just know what can and can't happen, by applying basics tenets of science.  And the Powermid (see wot I dun there?) can't happen.  There endeth this story.

Hey man it was VECTRON* rays!!!

 

 

* I made up the term Vectron back in the late 80 for use on the usenet as a name for any supernatural/supersciency sounding energy thingies - I find now there is a company using that name......

Edited October 29, 2019 by Hanslune
Explanation of Vectron

[jaylemurph]

10 hours ago, Vaz said:

I appreciate what you are saying.  It's more about planting seeds to try and get people out of the mud of modern brainwashing.  The folk here have made their hard position clear, and I respect that and I respect the people and the forum.  Just know that what you refer to as the fringe is growing and showing no signs of retreating.  As I previously said, 'the fringe' will rarely challenge mainstream over the more recent historical claims (classical and onwards).  That should tell you something.  It's only the ancient narrative and relics that is hotly disputed.

Out of respect for you all I'll withdraw for a while until I uncover more.

Bye for now.

...called it. 
 

—Jaylemurph 

[Piney]

Just now, jaylemurph said:

...called it. 

[Gaden]

9 hours ago, Vaz said:

I appreciate what you are saying.  It's more about planting seeds to try and get people out of the mud of modern brainwashing.  The folk here have made their hard position clear, and I respect that and I respect the people and the forum.  Just know that what you refer to as the fringe is growing and showing no signs of retreating.  As I previously said, 'the fringe' will rarely challenge mainstream over the more recent historical claims (classical and onwards).  That should tell you something.  It's only the ancient narrative and relics that is hotly disputed.

Out of respect for you all I'll withdraw for a while until I uncover more.

Bye for now.

What does that mean, you're going to watch some more you tube vids from fringe authors? Here's a wild and crazy idea I'll bet never occurred to you. Read something from a mainstream author. Miroslav Verner, Craig B. Smith, and Mark Lehner would be good ones to start with. It is painfully obvious that your research consists only of watching vids from the 'charlatan' group. This group, Childress, Hancock, Dunn, et. al. are writers that have discovered an easy way to make money. They make up stories about the AE and sell them to the gullible of the world. A true Egyptologist literally spends his entire life studying his subject, and these quacks spend what, a few weeks out of a few years? Here is another wild and crazy idea; an expert is called that for a reason. Just because some fantasy of Dunn's sounds interesting to you, if you would actually learn something about Ancient Egypt, you might see why it is foolish to place any stock in what these 'Pyramidiots' claim. But, of course, since you have championed the idea of a 'power generator', any thought that you are capable of rational and critical thinking is a waste of time. That you are simply parroting what you have seen on you tube has been obvious from your very first post, and in every point you have tried to make, not the least of which is the claim that graffiti that could only have been scrawled by one of the builders supports your ridiculous story. If you would follow my suggestion, and read something of substance, it is possible that you would realize that the idea that the Pyramids are not tombs is ludicrous. When you find out how important it was to the AE that their Pharaoh successfully reach the afterlife, things start making more sense.