Giza Pyramid construction

[Paul Hai]

The documented reporting by Herodotus was by himself gleaning information from Egyptian priests who were noble (noblemen-high rank) scribes whose work included recording regional history.

The story these priests told of Atlantis is about the Minoan Island of Thera, today called Santorini. When Thera's volcano exploded it created a massive tsunami which caused havoc in Egypt's delta area. Atlantis was Thera and Thera's people were Minoan Sea Traders sailing to South England and into Egypt. Minoans were the 'Bull Leapers" and "Bull Leaping" exists in parts of Northern Spain and Southern France.

Ezekiel documents what he is told of Great Pyramid construction. The "creatures" with clawed feet are "Hebrew labourers" carrying the claw footed lifting tools to fit the wooden pulleys to Pyramid blocks.

The only way to build the Great Pyramid in the documented time-frame of twenty years was by using the pyramid itself, progressively to the point of completion using all four sides and there were four work gangs also to provide a spirit of competition and get their work done.

There is no evidence of ramps at Giza but there is a lot of debris. Debris cannot be used as evidence of a ramp. Likewise the hole in the ground on the Giza Plateau filmed by a "famous television archaeologist" became a survey peg and that non-visible peg became proof of a survey line for the ramp. Critical thinking is very important and if we think of a ramp as a single lane road that can be blocked by 'traffic' accident at any time, then we can see the ramp is not feasible for Great Pyramid engineering. Great Pyramid engineering required at least ten lane highways on each side of the Pyramid, forty lanes in total. The ancient Egyptians were not primitives but extremely sophisticated innovative engineers, such that their four-lobe pinion pulley does not exists today and it was I who re-discovered it. Herodotus and Ezekiel documented much truth and both these sources are important. I decoded Ezekiel Chapter 1, so along with Herodotus there are TWO Great Pyramid construction documentations and most universities accept at least TWO separate but converging documented accounts as proof of an historical event. The decoding of Ezekiel has a page at haitheory.com

[Hanslune]

The documented reporting by Herodotus was by himself gleaning information from Egyptian priests who were noble (noblemen-high rank) scribes whose work included recording regional history.

Howdy Paul Hai

Regional history? Could you give us examples of this regional history? Herodotus could not speak Egyptian so he did not gather the information himself whether he spoke to Greek speaking Egyptian priests or used an interpreter is not known.

Ezekiel documents what he is told of Great Pyramid construction. The "creatures" with clawed feet are "Hebrew labourers" carrying the claw footed lifting tools to fit the wooden pulleys to Pyramid blocks.

That is very inventive but while my knowledge of the book of Ezekiel is not complete I don't see how it could be speaking about the pyramids 2,000 years after the event

There is no evidence of ramps at Giza but there is a lot of debris. Debris cannot be used as evidence of a ramp.

Sure they can one thing about ramps is that they are removed after use - although in some cases bits and pieces remain.

The ancient Egyptians were not primitives but extremely sophisticated innovative engineers, such that their four-lobe pinion pulley does not exists today and it was I who re-discovered it.

Does it work - have you made one and used it? Not being an engineer I would note that wood being placed between a stone and they draw up and bumping into stones multiple times would soon shatter. Have you done a study of this?

I decoded Ezekiel Chapter 1, so along with Herodotus there are TWO Great Pyramid construction documentations and most universities accept at least TWO separate but converging documented accounts as proof of an historical event. The decoding of Ezekiel has a page at haitheory.com

Which universities have agreed that your 'translation' is correct or more correctly which experts have agreed with you - science works by consensus. Have you written up and published your research so that others could see your idea?

Edited January 30, 2016 by Hanslune

[Jarocal]

Howdy Paul Hai

Regional history? Could you give us examples of this regional history? Herodotus could not speak Egyptian so he did not gather the information himself whether he spoke to Greek speaking Egyptian priests or used an interpreter is not known.

I believe you will find that it is known he used Priest's with whom he shared a language or an interpreter, some may argue direct telepathy or channeled spirits but I am confident the evidence points to one of the first two methods mentioned.

That is very inventive but while my knowledge of the book of Ezekiel is not complete I don't see how it could be speaking about the pyramids 2,000 years after the event

considering he posted an image with Ezekiel's wheel, I suppose this is the relevant passage.

16 The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel.

17 When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not when they went.

18 As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four.

19 And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up.

20 Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.

21 When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.

funny how the poster mentioned the beasts with clawed feet were Hebrew Labour when I thought the conspiracy theory always was that they had horns...

Sure they can one thing about ramps is that they are removed after use - although in some cases bits and pieces remain.

Ramps have been debunked, and Egyptology cannot even explain how the sceptre were used. The mainstream is floundering in century old dogma that will be washed away as free thinkers shift the paradigm.

Does it work - have you made one and used it? Not being an engineer I would note that wood being placed between a stone and they draw up and bumping into stones multiple times would soon shatter. Have you done a study of this?

Just take his word for it...

Which universities have agreed that your 'translation' is correct or more correctly which experts have agreed with you - science works by consensus. Have you written up and published your research so that others could see your idea?

Why ask questions you already know the answer to?

Edited January 30, 2016 by Jarocal

[Paul Hai]

My existence does not include spoon-feeding pieces of information being requested in an interrogating arrogant manner when that information is readily available, so gather up the Old Testament, The Histories and Raising Stone 1 and read. Ezekiel and Herodotus will not mind if you do not believe them so what is left but a modern ramp theory that cannot deliver the Great Pyramid within twenty years. Read in Ezekiel there was a meeting by the River Chebar in Babylon where the descendants of Hebrew Pyramid builders described what they knew and present was the Hebrew priest and noble (rank) scribe, Ezekiel to document what was being explained at that meeting. I do not know about the multi-lingual skills of Herodotus or the Egyptian priests but the diplomatic language of that time was Persian. Herodotus had fled his home in Halicarnassus which was under severe Persian occupation and Egypt was also under Persian occupation, but less severe, so it is possible that Persian was spoken to provide information. Writing equipment was available and is it not obvious that drawings can be made with writing materials. Critical thinking is important, along with critical reading.

[Hanslune]

Just take his word for it...

That may be wise advice

Why ask questions you already know the answer to?

I'm collecting the answers to this question which I have asked many times before on many a website!

[Hanslune]

My existence does not include spoon-feeding pieces of information being requested in an interrogating arrogant manner when that information is readily available, so gather up the Old Testament,

You mean you don't answer questions you cannot answer - CHECK

The Histories and Raising Stone 1 and read. Ezekiel and Herodotus will not mind if you do not believe them so what is left but a modern ramp theory that cannot deliver the Great Pyramid within twenty years. Read in Ezekiel there was a meeting by the River Chebar in Babylon where the descendants of Hebrew Pyramid builders described what they knew and present was the Hebrew priest and noble (rank) scribe, Ezekiel to document what was being explained at that meeting.

Hmmmm just what version of that book are you reading I see nothing of that in those passages also you are making the assumption that the Hebrews were involved in building of the pyramid

I do not know about the multi-lingual skills of Herodotus or the Egyptian priests but the diplomatic language of that time was Persian. Herodotus had fled his home in Halicarnassus which was under severe Persian occupation and Egypt was also under Persian occupation, but less severe, so it is possible that Persian was spoken to provide information.

Yes that is possible which points to his obtaining information thru translators which is often full of difficulties plus said priests would have been discussing something 2,000 years before their own time.

Critical thinking is important, along with critical reading.

Which is why I questioned your unique interpretation of Ezekiel

I take it that since you didn't answer some of my questions that they cannot be answered? ie your 'two university' thought failed under the concept of consensus?

[jaylemurph]

I decoded Ezekiel Chapter 1, so along with Herodotus there are TWO Great Pyramid construction documentations and most universities accept at least TWO separate but converging documented accounts as proof of an historical event. The decoding of Ezekiel has a page at haitheory.com

That's odd. I've never even heard of universities as institutions accepting proof of anything. That's done in journals, with individuals in the field espousing different viewpoints and writing about them until a consensus is built. Universities adopting them would only lead to the sort of intellectual diktats that only conspiracy theorist idiots even suggest exist.

My existence does not include spoon-feeding pieces of information being requested in an interrogating arrogant manner when that information is readily available, so gather up the Old Testament...

Oh, I see. Your job isn't to explain or support your "theory," just to shout it at people, whom you must reckon will meekly lie down and start proclaiming your genius. Well, you've already gotten a taste of the results of that, and you've gotten precisely what you've earned for mistaking a blog with a public discussion. And good thing you did that here, because if you can't be bothered to explain yourself, you're never going to warrant the attention of any (other) actual historian.

I just gave a copy of one of my own works to fellow member Jarocal. In it, I cite Herodotus (by book, section and line) when I referred to information he presents that's useful to my thesis. I didn't scream at people who question my premise or expect them to look up the reference on their own, but that could just be the difference between good scholarship and whatever the hell it is you're doing.

--Jaylemurph

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Ezekiel chapter one.

Where he sees th Host of Heaven (ie the chaps with four faces and four wings) and goes into painful detail to describe them.

Sorry, I'm missing the bit where he describes the building of the pyramids.

[Hanslune]

Ezekiel chapter one.

Where he sees th Host of Heaven (ie the chaps with four faces and four wings) and goes into painful detail to describe them.

Sorry, I'm missing the bit where he describes the building of the pyramids.

Ah that is the question - however he did say he 'decoded' them. It has been my experience that often the fringe meaning of 'decode' is 'rewrite to what I want it to say'...however lets see if he can explain how that book can be used to create engineering details......

[Kenemet]

My existence does not include spoon-feeding pieces of information being requested in an interrogating arrogant manner when that information is readily available, so gather up the Old Testament, The Histories and Raising Stone 1 and read. Ezekiel and Herodotus will not mind if you do not believe them so what is left but a modern ramp theory that cannot deliver the Great Pyramid within twenty years. Read in Ezekiel there was a meeting by the River Chebar in Babylon where the descendants of Hebrew Pyramid builders described what they knew and present was the Hebrew priest and noble (rank) scribe, Ezekiel to document what was being explained at that meeting.

"descendants of Hebrew Pyramid builders"?

That means only one of two things, both of which are not correct:

* There are no Hebrew pyramids.

* Hebrews did not build any of the Egyptian pyramids. They did not arrive in Egypt until the time of the Hyksos, a thousand years after Giza.

You also seem unaware that there are well over 100 large pyramids in Egypt, and that the design of the early ones (the Gizamids) is VERY different from the two that were built during the time of Ezekiel (when the only pyramids built were for the Nubian pharaohs.)

Critical thinking is important, along with critical reading.

Indeed. Your timeline and your understanding of pyramid construction needs considerable rethinking.

[back to earth]

I think someone saw application in the reverse of this principle ....

I suppose one could fit a small block in the carry basket ?

The concept of encasing a block in a circular frame and using it as a reverse windless with a rope around it is great ! Experiments have shown that much less force is needed to move a block up an even steeper angle than the 'push on rollers' concept . It is very efficient method for moving a block ....., up a ramp .

... But since ' ramps are debunked' , obviously they never used this principle

Edited January 31, 2016 by back to earth

[Tatetopa]

i like the idea of encasing a block in a circular frame, it would be a great way to roll a stone along. I like what you call your four lobed pulley. It has some use too. Cog railroads use a rack and pinion to pull themselves up steep mountainsides. Many industrial applications exist for sprockets and lobed gears designed uniquely to fit the purpose of a specific machine. Look a machining and industrial journals pre-1930 and you will see a plethora of ingenious mechanisms developed before the age of electronics, stepper motors, and programmable logic controllers on machinery. People at the turn of the 20th century were as clever as Egyptians. You can find those journals at almost any large library. The corporation I worked for had about 70 years of back issues in the Document Center. I used to leaf through them at lunch sometimes.

With all due respect, you might never have looked at any such publication, but you are not the first to invent lobed pulleys. Still, its a neat idea and one solution to a problem. If you consider it, a large spoked hub without a rim would have worked also, same rack and pinion concept. Also check out power wheel chairs that can climb stairs.

I'm down with the engineering and mechanics, not to say the original pyramid builders did it this way or knew the techniques. For the life of me though, I don't understand the link with Ezekiel. I heard Timothy Leary give a talk once on breathing and lung function (yes I am that old) which bore a lot of similarity to Ezekiel. Perhaps they had the same inspiration. It might be a dynamite explanation for a spiritual concept, but it lacks the accuracy and efficacy for explaining an engineering concept. For example, Ezekiel did know cedar. He could have called it out rather than refer to it as the color of beryl. In my own humble way, I have done a good deal of technical writing. I would have to say that Ezekiel may be spiritually far above me, but I put him in the shade as a technical writer.

[kmt_sesh]

The documented reporting by Herodotus was by himself gleaning information from Egyptian priests who were noble (noblemen-high rank) scribes whose work included recording regional history.

The story these priests told of Atlantis is about the Minoan Island of Thera, today called Santorini. When Thera's volcano exploded it created a massive tsunami which caused havoc in Egypt's delta area. Atlantis was Thera and Thera's people were Minoan Sea Traders sailing to South England and into Egypt. Minoans were the 'Bull Leapers" and "Bull Leaping" exists in parts of Northern Spain and Southern France.

Ezekiel documents what he is told of Great Pyramid construction. The "creatures" with clawed feet are "Hebrew labourers" carrying the claw footed lifting tools to fit the wooden pulleys to Pyramid blocks.

The only way to build the Great Pyramid in the documented time-frame of twenty years was by using the pyramid itself, progressively to the point of completion using all four sides and there were four work gangs also to provide a spirit of competition and get their work done.

There is no evidence of ramps at Giza but there is a lot of debris. Debris cannot be used as evidence of a ramp. Likewise the hole in the ground on the Giza Plateau filmed by a "famous television archaeologist" became a survey peg and that non-visible peg became proof of a survey line for the ramp. Critical thinking is very important and if we think of a ramp as a single lane road that can be blocked by 'traffic' accident at any time, then we can see the ramp is not feasible for Great Pyramid engineering. Great Pyramid engineering required at least ten lane highways on each side of the Pyramid, forty lanes in total. The ancient Egyptians were not primitives but extremely sophisticated innovative engineers, such that their four-lobe pinion pulley does not exists today and it was I who re-discovered it. Herodotus and Ezekiel documented much truth and both these sources are important. I decoded Ezekiel Chapter 1, so along with Herodotus there are TWO Great Pyramid construction documentations and most universities accept at least TWO separate but converging documented accounts as proof of an historical event. The decoding of Ezekiel has a page at haitheory.com

There is archaeologically attested evidence for at least one large ramp at the Great Pyramid and possibly two others. The best preserved is just beyond the east face of the Great Pyramid, leading in a northerly direction away from the primary quarry. All that remains is the footing, in which was found tightly compacted rubble and fill as well as the remains of log rollers and seal impressions bearing the name of Khufu. Additionally, it took archaeologists many years to clear the primary quarry to the immediate south of countless tons of that tightly compacted rubble and fill, which was definitely not normal desert debris and was most likely the remains of disassembled ramps.

That ramps were employed is beyond rational dispute. There is solid evidence for construction ramps at a myriad of tombs (pyramids included), temples, and other engineering feats throughout dynastic history. When it comes to something as colossal as the Great Pyramid, the one thing we cannot definitively answer is exactly how the ramps looked and what different systems of ramps were used at any one time. The one-off, single ramp stretching off into the horizon is no longer considered valid, but ramps can take a variety of forms and shapes. And they are well within the engineering capabilities of Early Bronze Age people.

Numerous alternative-history and fringe writers have attempted to "disprove" ramps in recent history, yet all such attempts have fallen flat.

Please understand something important to this specific discussion about the Bible, Old Testament included: nowhere are Egyptian pyramids mentioned in it. In like manner alternative-history and fringe writers have attempted to point to this or that passage from the Bible as "proof" for pyramids, but no legitimate biblical scholar would agree. Nor would any historian who is versed in biblical lore, for that matter.

Equally critical to understand is that the Great Pyramid was erected sometime around 2500 BCE. The Hebrews simply did not exist that early. That is historical and archaeological fact. The earliest possible textual evidence we have for the Hebrews is the early thirteenth century BCE. This is almost 1,300 years after the Great Pyramid was built. Archaeological evidence for the material culture of a people identifiable as "proto-Hebrew" begins to date to around that time, too. In other words, while the Egyptians built that pyramid in the Early Bronze Age, the Hebrews did not emerge as a people and culture until the Late Bronze Age. There is not and cannot be any direct association between the Great Pyramid and the Hebrews, so actually it makes sense that the Hebraic scribes who first wrote down their oral traditions didn't even mention the Egyptian pyramids—culturally and historically they were of no relevance to the Hebrews.

One must take Herodotus with a grain of salt. His historical accounts are endlessly entertaining but not actually hard "history" as we moderns think of the term. Herodotus definitely recorded some things accurately, such as the Egyptians building a big dam near Memphis at the dawn of dynastic history (archaeology has located and excavated it), but at the same time Herodotus records obvious inaccuracies and many plain mistakes. One example is the mention that the inscriptions on the pyramid temples mention the food stuffs the builders were paid, which is of course not at all correct. This brings into question the veracity and knowledge of the native Egyptian sources to whom Herodotus turned for his information. But that's not surprising, given that Herodotus toured Egypt over 2,000 years after the Great Pyramid was built. The Egyptians of his time were likely going to know less about pyramid construction than our theoretical models are able to posit today.

Et cetera. There is more I find to be inaccurate, such as the pulley (none was really known to Egyptians of 2500 BCE), but I've written enough for now.

On a closing note, don't take our criticisms personally. We are addressing the information you posted, not attacking you. This is a discussion forum, after all.

[Lucas Cooper Merrin]

An awful lot of "copy paste" material going on here!

[Hanslune]

On a closing note, don't take our criticisms personally. We are addressing the information you posted, not attacking you. This is a discussion forum, after all.

Alright Kmt_Sesh that seems a bit mean but ...okay? I have to say I don't care for the guys shirt at all! I mean that color? I've haven't seen anything like that outside of a stagnant pond - and don't get me started on those glass frames puh leezzeeeee.

Oops I just re-read your last sentence and I see I got it wrong I thought you said we SHOULD criticize him personally- sorry about that!

[Tatetopa]

kmt_sesh thanks. I think there might be a number of different ways to build a pyramid. I even know from contemporary engineering that the best way does not always get chosen. But we are not dealing with parallel universes in which alternative ways might have been used. I appreciate your knowledge of the evidence for ramps. Sorry I won't be able to get up to see your exhibit to look for you.

Yet, I am mystified with the link to Mr. Prophet Ezekiel. God's instructions on how to build a world are sadly lacking in detail, If Ezekiel was his protege, maybe his Pyramid Appendix is understandable. Still the dudes with wheels and wings and distributed eyes are a little creepy.

Lighten up Hanslune, I've worn the same green vest with little slag burns in it for the last three winters. I wasn't good looking or sexy forty years ago so I feel an amazing freedom from the constraints of fashion now.

Paul Hai, I really do like your idea of a lobed pulley or cam. It might work, but maybe the Egyptian's didn't use it. How would that make you feel to be smarter than the Egyptians? Of course we have had better than 4000 years of experimentation to come up with some good solutions. Is it really surprising that you with 4000 years of technology development might come up with a better way to build pyramids?

[Davros of Skaro]

Ezekiel's Wheel is just the Throne of God which was the writer's intent.

"Was Ezekiel's Wheel vision just symbolic of the iconography of competing polytheistic beliefs from his day? In his vision the Lord sit's on top of these images (four beasts) from surrounding cultures of the monotheistic Israelites."

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=289610entry5720080

[Hanslune]

kmt_sesh thanks. I think there might be a number of different ways to build a pyramid. I even know from contemporary engineering that the best way does not always get chosen. But we are not dealing with parallel universes in which alternative ways might have been used. I appreciate your knowledge of the evidence for ramps. Sorry I won't be able to get up to see your exhibit to look for you.

Yet, I am mystified with the link to Mr. Prophet Ezekiel. God's instructions on how to build a world are sadly lacking in detail, If Ezekiel was his protege, maybe his Pyramid Appendix is understandable. Still the dudes with wheels and wings and distributed eyes are a little creepy.

Lighten up Hanslune, I've worn the same green vest with little slag burns in it for the last three winters. I wasn't good looking or sexy forty years ago so I feel an amazing freedom from the constraints of fashion now.

Paul Hai, I really do like your idea of a lobed pulley or cam. It might work, but maybe the Egyptian's didn't use it. How would that make you feel to be smarter than the Egyptians? Of course we have had better than 4000 years of experimentation to come up with some good solutions. Is it really surprising that you with 4000 years of technology development might come up with a better way to build pyramids?

Ha ha yep there are probably many, many ways to build a pyramid. My own view is that they used four different way; directly dragging up the first few courses, switching to one or more direct approach ramps, thirdly switching to a 'switch back' ramp then finally using 'machines' to lift the later lighter stones that came up the earlier two set up ramps - some sort of Shadoof or similar. However it is all speculation and unless we find the tomb of an engineer who had drawing made of his greatest work or an atypical papyrus we are going to be in the dark - probably forever.

[Jarocal]

Ha ha yep there are probably many, many ways to build a pyramid. My own view is that they used four different way; directly dragging up the first few courses, switching to one or more direct approach ramps, thirdly switching to a 'switch back' ramp then finally using 'machines' to lift the later lighter stones that came up the earlier two set up ramps - some sort of Shadoof or similar. However it is all speculation and unless we find the tomb of an engineer who had drawing made of his greatest work or an atypical papyrus we are going to be in the dark - probably forever.

the four methods were

1)water powered funicular transport up the causeway

2) geyser powered hydraulic lift to the block 81'3" straight up the side of each step.

3) djed (pulley,block and tackle) for horizontal transfer of blocks on each level powered by runoff water from geyser lift operation.

4) Was-Sceptre for final placement

Egyptology cannot understand the natural language spoken by man at the time of pyramid construction. Ramps have been conclusively debunked (Cladking et al. public posting of information here,ats,ghmb...)

Sand acted as micro-ball bearings reducing friction for djed operation (I forget who at ghmb)

Edited January 31, 2016 by Jarocal

[Tatetopa]

I think four ways is a limit of imagination. There are many. I could say lowboy trailers to haul the blocks and a construction crane to lift them in place is a fifth. But you would tell me that is ridiculous, that the Egyptians didn't know about those. They used Was-Sceptres and geysers. Maybe in some parallel universes each is true, but on our Earth in our historical Egypt neither is likely.

I beg your pardon, sand does not make a good ball bearing. Its fractured structure and sharp edges make it great for abrasion. You can certainly drag things across or through it, but it does not do much to reduce friction. You would do better with a little bit of clay suspended in water. Clay particles are much finer and more regular than the average sand.

Geyser power? A hydraulic lift requires considerable machining capability. There would be some traces of that skill scattered across the intervening centuries. I did not know there were geysers available for power. Geysers require a certain amount of tectonic activity that the region shows little sign of possessing. They are not required. There are much more mundane ways to achieve water pressure.

I am going to call BS on your assumption that Egyptology cannot understand the "natural language" spoken by man at the time of pyramid construction. I have been on a few construction sites around the world. I have climbed on a scaffold ten stories tall made out of bamboo and tied with bread wrappers. I only went up one story, that was enough for me. I have been on a road project where the only tools were horse carts and sledge hammers. I will tell you that the guys climbing that scaffold and swinging those hammers knew the names of their tools and how to use them. They were not poetic. They did not refer to their structure as the ever growing forest reaching for heaven, they called it a scaffold when they spoke English. They did not refer to their rock breakers as flaming rods of heavenly power. They called them hammers, and they knew when to use a 12 pound sledge and when to use a 3 pounder.

My species, Homo sapiens, has built a hell of a lot of **** with a few simple tools. There are surveyors and project managers, engineers and specialists today as I bet there were 4000 years ago. Its a lot simpler and the work is harder than you might imagine. It doesn't really require a white robed elite priest with a Was-Sceptre to get stuff done.

And by the way, try to imagine the crater produced when a novice priest uses an uncalibrated Was-Sceptre or miscalculates the focal length of the positioning ray.

[Jarocal]

I think four ways is a limit of imagination. There are many. I could say lowboy trailers to haul the blocks and a construction crane to lift them in place is a fifth. But you would tell me that is ridiculous, that the Egyptians didn't know about those. They used Was-Sceptres and geysers. Maybe in some parallel universes each is true, but on our Earth in our historical Egypt neither is likely.

I beg your pardon, sand does not make a good ball bearing. Its fractured structure and sharp edges make it great for abrasion. You can certainly drag things across or through it, but it does not do much to reduce friction. You would do better with a little bit of clay suspended in water. Clay particles are much finer and more regular than the average sand.

Geyser power? A hydraulic lift requires considerable machining capability. There would be some traces of that skill scattered across the intervening centuries. I did not know there were geysers available for power. Geysers require a certain amount of tectonic activity that the region shows little sign of possessing. They are not required. There are much more mundane ways to achieve water pressure.

I am going to call BS on your assumption that Egyptology cannot understand the "natural language" spoken by man at the time of pyramid construction. I have been on a few construction sites around the world. I have climbed on a scaffold ten stories tall made out of bamboo and tied with bread wrappers. I only went up one story, that was enough for me. I have been on a road project where the only tools were horse carts and sledge hammers. I will tell you that the guys climbing that scaffold and swinging those hammers knew the names of their tools and how to use them. They were not poetic. They did not refer to their structure as the ever growing forest reaching for heaven, they called it a scaffold when they spoke English. They did not refer to their rock breakers as flaming rods of heavenly power. They called them hammers, and they knew when to use a 12 pound sledge and when to use a 3 pounder.

My species, Homo sapiens, has built a hell of a lot of **** with a few simple tools. There are surveyors and project managers, engineers and specialists today as I bet there were 4000 years ago. Its a lot simpler and the work is harder than you might imagine. It doesn't really require a white robed elite priest with a Was-Sceptre to get stuff done.

And by the way, try to imagine the crater produced when a novice priest uses an uncalibrated Was-Sceptre or miscalculates the focal length of the positioning ray.

I cited my sources...

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

I think four ways is a limit of imagination. There are many. I could say lowboy trailers to haul the blocks and a construction crane to lift them in place is a fifth. But you would tell me that is ridiculous, that the Egyptians didn't know about those. They used Was-Sceptres and geysers. Maybe in some parallel universes each is true, but on our Earth in our historical Egypt neither is likely.

I beg your pardon, sand does not make a good ball bearing. Its fractured structure and sharp edges make it great for abrasion. You can certainly drag things across or through it, but it does not do much to reduce friction. You would do better with a little bit of clay suspended in water. Clay particles are much finer and more regular than the average sand.

Geyser power? A hydraulic lift requires considerable machining capability. There would be some traces of that skill scattered across the intervening centuries. I did not know there were geysers available for power. Geysers require a certain amount of tectonic activity that the region shows little sign of possessing. They are not required. There are much more mundane ways to achieve water pressure.

I am going to call BS on your assumption that Egyptology cannot understand the "natural language" spoken by man at the time of pyramid construction. I have been on a few construction sites around the world. I have climbed on a scaffold ten stories tall made out of bamboo and tied with bread wrappers. I only went up one story, that was enough for me. I have been on a road project where the only tools were horse carts and sledge hammers. I will tell you that the guys climbing that scaffold and swinging those hammers knew the names of their tools and how to use them. They were not poetic. They did not refer to their structure as the ever growing forest reaching for heaven, they called it a scaffold when they spoke English. They did not refer to their rock breakers as flaming rods of heavenly power. They called them hammers, and they knew when to use a 12 pound sledge and when to use a 3 pounder.

My species, Homo sapiens, has built a hell of a lot of **** with a few simple tools. There are surveyors and project managers, engineers and specialists today as I bet there were 4000 years ago. Its a lot simpler and the work is harder than you might imagine. It doesn't really require a white robed elite priest with a Was-Sceptre to get stuff done.

And by the way, try to imagine the crater produced when a novice priest uses an uncalibrated Was-Sceptre or miscalculates the focal length of the positioning ray.

Apropos of "understanding the language", apparently (and according to QI) the pigeon English for piano is "old man who sit in corner, press him white teeth he laugh, press him black teeth he cry". Which, when you think about it is a solid explanation for how a piano works.

[Hanslune]

the four methods were

1)water powered funicular transport up the causeway

2) geyser powered hydraulic lift to the block 81'3" straight up the side of each step.

3) djed (pulley,block and tackle) for horizontal transfer of blocks on each level powered by runoff water from geyser lift operation.

4) Was-Sceptre for final placement

Egyptology cannot understand the natural language spoken by man at the time of pyramid construction. Ramps have been conclusively debunked (Cladking et al. public posting of information here,ats,ghmb...)

Sand acted as micro-ball bearings reducing friction for djed operation (I forget who at ghmb)

ah yeah......

[Tatetopa]

I cited my sources...

I could site sources to say that the earth was churned out of butter by the Hindu gods, or made from the bones of giants or titans by the Norse or Greek gods. There are sources that say that the Japanese Islands are drops of blood from the sword tip of Izani-ni, or that the whole shebang was made in six days. Gary Gygax was source material for innumerable D&D games across the world. I am sure one or more of them had a Was-Sceptre in them. You might have to roll 15 or better on a 20 sided dice to make it work properly.

You may know all about alien technology and ancient mystery sources. I cannot dispute that. Harmonic disks and levitation come up too from other sources What I know is a little bit about the natural world, engineering, science, and technology. I like blueprints and schematics. I can figure out how to quarry, transport, and raise stone. I like plans. I don't know how the Egyptians did it. I do know the stone shows quarry marks, nor laser or water jet cutting. I distrust arm waving and obfuscation. I think a big gap that is filled by unknown mysteries or alien technology is suspect. When you use that arm waving to cover processes that can be understood with simpler explanations it does not explain anything.

Ok I will take Sir Wearer of Hat's advice and go sit with the old man in the corner and tickle his black teeth.

[Tatetopa]

Hey there Paul Hai. Have you considered that the greatest event in the ancient middle east might have been the construction of the tower of Babel? Compared to the pyramids, it was a real skyscraper. And as an added bonus, right in Ezekiel's back yard.