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Giza Pyramid construction


Paul Hai
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I could site sources to say that the earth was churned out of butter by the Hindu gods, or made from the bones of giants or titans by the Norse or Greek gods. There are sources that say that the Japanese Islands are drops of blood from the sword tip of Izani-ni, or that the whole shebang was made in six days. Gary Gygax was source material for innumerable D&D games across the world. I am sure one or more of them had a Was-Sceptre in them. You might have to roll 15 or better on a 20 sided dice to make it work properly.

Those sources are probably as accurate as the ones I cited.

You may know all about alien technology and ancient mystery sources. I cannot dispute that. Harmonic disks and levitation come up too from other sources

Aliens? Levitation?

What I know is a little bit about the natural world, engineering, science, and technology.

All useful research endeavors.

I like blueprints and schematics.

Me too

I can figure out how to quarry, transport, and raise stone. I like plans. I don't know how the Egyptians did it. I do know the stone shows quarry marks, nor laser or water jet cutting.

Which is why I did not mention either of those.

I distrust arm waving and obfuscation. I think a big gap that is filled by unknown mysteries or alien technology is suspect. When you use that arm waving to cover processes that can be understood with simpler explanations it does not explain anything.

Why take the easy path when a convoluted conspiracy with no veriable evidence serves so much better?

Ok I will take Sir Wearer of Hat's advice and go sit with the old man in the corner and tickle his black teeth.

Instead try reading the themes I cited. It can be very entertaining (though admittedly not very informative except for the posts refuting the assertions).

Edited by Jarocal
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The story these priests told of Atlantis is about the Minoan Island of Thera, today called Santorini. When Thera's volcano exploded it created a massive tsunami which caused havoc in Egypt's delta area. Atlantis was Thera and Thera's people were Minoan Sea Traders sailing to South England and into Egypt. Minoans were the 'Bull Leapers" and "Bull Leaping" exists in parts of Northern Spain and Southern France.

The main problem with this idea is:

* the island was well-known to Egyptians. Their troops were quartered there.

* it was a trading partner with Egypt during the time of the New Kingdom - specifically during the reigns of Thutmose I - Tutankhamun (the time period for the volcano)

* It never conquered anyone.

* by the time of Ezekiel, it was again under Egyptian control. Its history was recorded in their annals.

* they would never have called it Atlantis.

* and all the other civilizations of the area knew the place.

Ezekiel documents what he is told of Great Pyramid construction.

* Hebrews weren't Hebrews back during the time of the Great Pyramid

* the first time Hebrews enter Egypt in any numbers is during the New Kingdom, a thousand years and more after the GP was built.

* the last pyramids they built were during the time of Ezekiel... and they are much smaller than and NOT similar to the GP.

The only way to build the Great Pyramid in the documented time-frame of twenty years was by using the pyramid itself, progressively to the point of completion using all four sides and there were four work gangs also to provide a spirit of competition and get their work done.

Your information source seems to be out of date. They had around 30,000 people on site during active building periods and there were ten or more work gangs of 200 men each. You might like to read this article by my teacher: http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/egyptians/pyramid_builders_01.shtml

Pyramid engineering required at least ten lane highways on each side of the Pyramid, forty lanes in total.

It appears you got your initial information from websites and publications that relied on old and outmoded information about pyramids. You might want to read up on the more recent discoveries.

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the four methods were

1)water powered funicular transport up the causeway

2) geyser powered hydraulic lift to the block 81'3" straight up the side of each step.

3) djed (pulley,block and tackle) for horizontal transfer of blocks on each level powered by runoff water from geyser lift operation.

4) Was-Sceptre for final placement

Egyptology cannot understand the natural language spoken by man at the time of pyramid construction. Ramps have been conclusively debunked (Cladking et al. public posting of information here,ats,ghmb...)

Sand acted as micro-ball bearings reducing friction for djed operation (I forget who at ghmb)

Yeah, we'll go with that. :w00t:

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i like the idea of encasing a block in a circular frame, it would be a great way to roll a stone along. I like what you call your four lobed pulley. It has some use too. Cog railroads use a rack and pinion to pull themselves up steep mountainsides. Many industrial applications exist for sprockets and lobed gears designed uniquely to fit the purpose of a specific machine. Look a machining and industrial journals pre-1930 and you will see a plethora of ingenious mechanisms developed before the age of electronics, stepper motors, and programmable logic controllers on machinery. People at the turn of the 20th century were as clever as Egyptians. You can find those journals at almost any large library. The corporation I worked for had about 70 years of back issues in the Document Center. I used to leaf through them at lunch sometimes.

With all due respect, you might never have looked at any such publication, but you are not the first to invent lobed pulleys. Still, its a neat idea and one solution to a problem. If you consider it, a large spoked hub without a rim would have worked also, same rack and pinion concept. Also check out power wheel chairs that can climb stairs.

I'm down with the engineering and mechanics, not to say the original pyramid builders did it this way or knew the techniques. For the life of me though, I don't understand the link with Ezekiel. I heard Timothy Leary give a talk once on breathing and lung function (yes I am that old) which bore a lot of similarity to Ezekiel. Perhaps they had the same inspiration. It might be a dynamite explanation for a spiritual concept, but it lacks the accuracy and efficacy for explaining an engineering concept. For example, Ezekiel did know cedar. He could have called it out rather than refer to it as the color of beryl. In my own humble way, I have done a good deal of technical writing. I would have to say that Ezekiel may be spiritually far above me, but I put him in the shade as a technical writer.

We dont even have to postulate complex machinery .... just ingenuity ;

eg @ 2.25 (and at the beginning , how to move a huge block by using 2 pebbles )

Edited by back to earth
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I think four ways is a limit of imagination. There are many. I could say lowboy trailers to haul the blocks and a construction crane to lift them in place is a fifth. But you would tell me that is ridiculous, that the Egyptians didn't know about those. They used Was-Sceptres and geysers. Maybe in some parallel universes each is true, but on our Earth in our historical Egypt neither is likely.

I beg your pardon, sand does not make a good ball bearing. Its fractured structure and sharp edges make it great for abrasion. You can certainly drag things across or through it, but it does not do much to reduce friction. You would do better with a little bit of clay suspended in water. Clay particles are much finer and more regular than the average sand.

Geyser power? A hydraulic lift requires considerable machining capability. There would be some traces of that skill scattered across the intervening centuries. I did not know there were geysers available for power. Geysers require a certain amount of tectonic activity that the region shows little sign of possessing. They are not required. There are much more mundane ways to achieve water pressure.

I am going to call BS on your assumption that Egyptology cannot understand the "natural language" spoken by man at the time of pyramid construction. I have been on a few construction sites around the world. I have climbed on a scaffold ten stories tall made out of bamboo and tied with bread wrappers. I only went up one story, that was enough for me. I have been on a road project where the only tools were horse carts and sledge hammers. I will tell you that the guys climbing that scaffold and swinging those hammers knew the names of their tools and how to use them. They were not poetic. They did not refer to their structure as the ever growing forest reaching for heaven, they called it a scaffold when they spoke English. They did not refer to their rock breakers as flaming rods of heavenly power. They called them hammers, and they knew when to use a 12 pound sledge and when to use a 3 pounder.

My species, Homo sapiens, has built a hell of a lot of **** with a few simple tools. There are surveyors and project managers, engineers and specialists today as I bet there were 4000 years ago. Its a lot simpler and the work is harder than you might imagine. It doesn't really require a white robed elite priest with a Was-Sceptre to get stuff done.

And by the way, try to imagine the crater produced when a novice priest uses an uncalibrated Was-Sceptre or miscalculates the focal length of the positioning ray.

Well, what you have to realise here is

that Jarocal suffers from an ' issue'

Even though he drove him away ...... he misses him so .

He did not wear his scarlet coat,

For blood and wine are red,

And blood and wine were on his hands

When they found him with the dead,

The poor dead man whom he loved,

And murdered in his thread.

I walked, with other souls in pain,

Within another thread,

And was wondering if that man had

A great or little head,

When a voice behind me whispered low,

“That fellows gone to bed."

I only knew what hunted thought

Quickened his posts and why

He looked upon the garish day

With such a wistful eye;

The man had killed the thing he loved

And so he had to die.

Yet each man kills the thing he loves

By each let this be heard,

Some do it with a bitter look,

Some with a flattering word,

The coward does it with a kiss,

The brave man with a sword!

He did not wring his hands nor weep,

Nor did he peek or pine,

But he drank much wine as though it held

Some healthful anodyne;

With open mouth he drank the lot

As though it had been mine !

It is sweet to dance to violins

When Love and Life are fair:

To dance to flutes, to dance to lutes

Is delicate and rare:

But it is not sweet with nimble feet

To dance upon the air!

So with curious eyes and sick surmise

We watched him day by day,

And wondered if each one of us

Would end the self-same way,

For none can tell to what red Hell

His sightless soul may stray.

And twice a day he smoked his pipe,

And drank his quarts of beer:

His soul was resolute, and held

No hiding-place for fear;

He often said that he was glad

The Moderator’s hands were near.

But why he said so strange a thing

No Moderator dared to ask:

For he to whom a watcher’s doom

Is given as his task,

Must set a lock upon his lips,

And make his face a mask.

The Moderators, with their shoes of felt

Crept by each threads e- door,

And peeped and saw, with eyes of awe,

Grey figures on the floor,

And wondered why such men knelt to pray

Who never prayed before.

He did not pass from here, in purple pomp,

Nor ride on moon-white steeds.

Three yards of cord and a sliding board

and a geyser is all one needs:

So with rope of shame the Herald came

and did his secret deeds.

And as one sees most fearful things

In the crystal of a stream,

We saw the greasy hempen rope

Hooked to the blackened beam,

And heard the prayer, the Cladding King's snare

as it always was - a mere dream .

.

Edited by back to earth
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Apropos of "understanding the language", apparently (and according to QI) the pigeon English for piano is "old man who sit in corner, press him white teeth he laugh, press him black teeth he cry". Which, when you think about it is a solid explanation for how a piano works.

NO ! What yo talkin bout ?

Here : ' dispella ime sit in box wooden you pressimlong black and white teeth, feelah inside ime singout nice. '

and as far as those black teeth go : ' dispella ime need brum belongum toot ' ;

75344_528837ed946736f62102ad616e1f73f4ebe2d1b3.jpg

Edited by back to earth
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I could site sources to say that the earth was churned out of butter by the Hindu gods, or made from the bones of giants or titans by the Norse or Greek gods. There are sources that say that the Japanese Islands are drops of blood from the sword tip of Izani-ni, or that the whole shebang was made in six days. Gary Gygax was source material for innumerable D&D games across the world. I am sure one or more of them had a Was-Sceptre in them. You might have to roll 15 or better on a 20 sided dice to make it work properly.

You may know all about alien technology and ancient mystery sources. I cannot dispute that. Harmonic disks and levitation come up too from other sources What I know is a little bit about the natural world, engineering, science, and technology. I like blueprints and schematics. I can figure out how to quarry, transport, and raise stone. I like plans. I don't know how the Egyptians did it. I do know the stone shows quarry marks, nor laser or water jet cutting. I distrust arm waving and obfuscation. I think a big gap that is filled by unknown mysteries or alien technology is suspect. When you use that arm waving to cover processes that can be understood with simpler explanations it does not explain anything.

Ok I will take Sir Wearer of Hat's advice and go sit with the old man in the corner and tickle his black teeth.

No no no ..... offer him a drink !

Just pour him a drink ... he will settle down then

Edited by back to earth
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A bit too late to edit, but I should add that the information about the Minoans and Hatshepsut comes from this publication:

Roehrig, C.H. ed (2005), Hatshepsut: From Queen to Pharaoh, Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York: http://www.metmuseum...ueen_to_Pharaoh

I want that !

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Those sources are probably as accurate as the ones I cited.

Aliens? Levitation?

All useful research endeavors.

Me too

Which is why I did not mention either of those.

Why take the easy path when a convoluted conspiracy with no veriable evidence serves so much better?

Instead try reading the themes I cited. It can be very entertaining (though admittedly not very informative except for the posts refuting the assertions).

stop having fun
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I want that !

An excellent book. I have it in my library—but I really wish I could've gone to the Hatshepsut exhibit.

tumblr_lhp57ozZ3g1qgqj2zo1_400.gif

I remember that Twilight Zone episode. That kid did an excellent job of being uber-creepy!

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I'd be in heaven at that exhibit ! I would also be happy to have that book and the one you previously recommended - looks great ! I tried to buy one but it was out of stock and needed ordering, I tried on line but now paypal says I am using the wrong password ????

Damn ! (No, I dont have a credit card .... might sound strange , but I have $00.00 in debts ) .

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I'd be in heaven at that exhibit ! I would also be happy to have that book and the one you previously recommended - looks great ! I tried to buy one but it was out of stock and needed ordering, I tried on line but now paypal says I am using the wrong password ????

Damn ! (No, I dont have a credit card .... might sound strange , but I have $00.00 in debts ) .

The one Kenemet linked is out of print. You will have to settle for a used or just download the pdf...

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The one Kenemet linked is out of print. You will have to settle for a used or just download the pdf...

Some used copies at decent (and silly) prices here.

I've bought used books from Amazon before and have never regretted it.

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Some used copies at decent (and silly) prices here.

I've bought used books from Amazon before and have never regretted it.

I buy used books from Amazon too. There are a lot of texts only available that way or through a book dealer. I just feel less guilty highlighting and annotating a free pdf copy (three ring binders and printing large/long documents are a perk at work) with out of print works.

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The one Kenemet linked is out of print. You will have to settle for a used or just download the pdf...

I like used copies - they cheap ! ( and they dont use up my internet credit or stored solar power ;) )

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  • 3 years later...

The Documented Ancient Construction Method of The Great Pyramid
Читайте больше на http://www.pravdareport.com/science/142069-great_pyramid/

http://balis.bibalex.org/EN/OPAC/Home/RecordDetails?bibid=380820

https://www.worldcat.org/title/raising-stone-1-paul-hais-racks-pinions-theory/oclc/225728397&referer=brief_results

https://saker.community/product/raising-stone-1-paul-hais-racks-and-pinions-theory/

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12 minutes ago, Paul Hai said:

good stuff and welcome in, Paul.

Not sure citing Ezekiel will be met with open arms in here but thanks for reviving a good old thread on Egyptology

Edited by Earl.Of.Trumps
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20 minutes ago, Paul Hai said:

Howdy Paul welcome to UM.

So what does this machine look like. Do you have a proposed design or diagram?

Pravda?

Edited by Hanslune
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Thanks to those who edited my post to mouse-click activate the links provided.

My translation of Ezekiel Chapter 1 will be unwelcome to overly religious bible fanatics ... to those people ... please do not present your bible spiel here ... we can all read the bible.
My website is http://www.haitheory.com

http://www.haitheory.com/Images/004%20haitheory%20Ezekiel%20slides.png

http://www.haitheory.com/Images/007%20haitheory%20Ezekiel%20slides.png

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=KVG7mzJUZa4

http://www.haitheory.com/Images/Wheelbarrow.jpg

Ezekiel's "wheels within wheels" equates technically to "lobes" and the "Petrie rockers" are these lobes.

The ancient Egyptian four-lobe pinion-pulley operates with a mechanical advantage of 2.8 (MA=2.8) thus is technically a machine as was explained to Herodotus on his visit to inquire on the construction of The Great Pyramid and Egypt itself c.450 BC. The original title of the documented reportage of Herodotus translates as "Inquiries" ... not "The Histories".

Only tomb models exist of the lobes. One tomb model measures 235mm long and many models are smaller.

http://www.haitheory.com/Images/Petrie%20rockers.jpg

With a mechanical advantage of 2.8 a 2500 kg Pyramid block can be raised with an input effort of about 900 kg.

These pulleys operated simultaneously on all four sides of Giza Pyramids and the number of pulleys would have been dictated by available space and quantity demands.

As the Pyramid rose in height there was less space for pulleys, but then lesser quantities of blocks were required.

The mechanical advantage of the ancient pulley was calculated at The Faculty of Engineering & Surveying, USQ, The University of Southern Queensland, Australia, and the calculation is fully documented in my book "Raising Stone 1: Paul Hai's Racks & Pinions Theory" on page 92.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Paul Hai said:

Ezekiel's "wheels within wheels" equates technically to "lobes" and the "Petrie rockers" are these lobes.

The rockers are far too small to be moving stone.  

One was found, for example, at the mortuary temple of Hatshepsut (no pyramids involved and a thousand years after the pyramids)  It's about 2 1/2 inches long, as you can see from reading the catalog description and it's  very fragile.  The bars are a little larger than toothpicks: https://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/wml/collections/antiquities/ancient-egypt/item-295217.aspx

Palm wood was what was used in Egypt, and it can't take a lot of weight.  The good woods were imported at great cost from Lebanon and the Middle East and wouldn't have been used in work tools.

 

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2 hours ago, Paul Hai said:

Ezekiel's "wheels within wheels" equates technically to "lobes" and the "Petrie rockers" are these lobes.

Also, as far as I can tell, Petrie never said he thought those were used to build the pyramids since they were found 600 miles from Giza and in something that doesn't even resemble a pyramid.

A second thought occurred to me:  they wouldn't work well because the stones are NOT UNIFORM in size.  They vary rather wildly in size, even on the same course.  Some are shorter and some are narrower, etc.  

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18 minutes ago, Kenemet said:

Also, as far as I can tell, Petrie never said he thought those were used to build the pyramids since they were found 600 miles from Giza and in something that doesn't even resemble a pyramid.

A second thought occurred to me:  they wouldn't work well because the stones are NOT UNIFORM in size.  They vary rather wildly in size, even on the same course.  Some are shorter and some are narrower, etc.  

The core stones were a tad irregular.

A good view on that is this image of the top of G1 showing the irregularity of the stones - however if Paul can show how such much larger rockers could be easily adapted to each stone unique size and shape?

cVJ5Pj6.jpg

Top of G2

yVsYoQ6.jpg

Other core stones

VBvj82L.jpg

2OliDcF.jpg

bfDuNzh.jpg

People who were still moving large stone in the early 20th century relied on simple sleds but then they weren't making pyramids.

Y2LZMyC.jpg

 

 

Edited by Hanslune
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