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Yamato

Individual Liberty for Democrats #2

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Yamato

FREEDOM. It's good enough for Democrats too.

Showcased in this video is Sea Shepherd Conservation Society founder and fleet captain Paul Watson, an individual mistakenly reviled by the right wing establishment as a "pirate", a "terrorist", a "communist", a "radical" and "extremist". But Watson doesn't care what people call him and he doesn't care what his detractors think. He's going to fight, while the rest of us sit around and whine, borrowing from foreigners and children, complicit in all that is ruining our future.

Whale poachers are no different than elephant poachers or any other poacher breaking the law, except that they have a lot more money thanks to the bureaucracy in Japan that is subsidizing their actions. People give whalers a lot more "legitimacy" than they give a poacher in a loincloth hiding in the bush because the shiny grey ships and the government makes it all look so official. The Japanese fleet was sunk economically years ago. Without millions from the Japanese taxpayers every year they'd never be able to sail 7,000 miles away from Japanese waters to a Whale Sanctuary just to find a whale to kill.

It's strange how a four-star privately owned non-profit organization that balances its budget every year and gets results an order of magnitude greater than its expenses is the "communist" and the criminal poachers on welfare who shoot endangered species in the back of the head are the non-violent victims. The Japanese government can't stand that non-violent resistance is so effective against their brutal economics of extinction, so it's no wonder their whaling vessels go out to sea with millions of dollars of new defenses every year, courtesy of Japanese people who want nothing to do with whale meat. The Japanese government has recently quadrupled its welfare to its whaling operation in 2011 thanks to only returning with a fifth of its quota in the 2010-2011 poaching season.

This is the survival of our oceans vs. whale meat. This is government-funded death vs. a principled interpretation of "Pro-Life". And if we must consider human interests alone, this is an ocean full of fish vs. jellyfish salad.

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Space Commander Travis

Ah, Paul Watson. The man who is above all rules of the sea and has no regard for anyone's safety at all. A real example to look up to.

Perhaps Costa Cruises might like to hire him?

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Yamato

Ah, Paul Watson. The man who is above all rules of the sea and has no regard for anyone's safety at all. A real example to look up to.

50254_27402387264_1518295_n.jpg

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and then

But Watson's purpose is for the higher good. Makes him immune to rules..kinda like..Obama!

I'm personally sickened by whaling and consider it EVIL. But people who place themselves above the law to fight perceived injustices do more harm than good.

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Space Commander Travis

But Watson's purpose is for the higher good. Makes him immune to rules..kinda like..Obama!

I'm personally sickened by whaling and consider it EVIL. But people who place themselves above the law to fight perceived injustices do more harm than good.

That's the thing. Sure, often people will think that sitting round chatting doesn't accomplish anything, and something must be Done, but on the other hand "direct action" so often just antagonises people who might otherwise be sympathetic to you.

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Ah, Paul Watson. The man who is above all rules of the sea and has no regard for anyone's safety at all. A real example to look up to.

Perhaps Costa Cruises might like to hire him?

I believe he has a better offer from al-Qaeda Marine division because he has as much regard for human life as they do. And I am for conservation as much as any Green Party member, but trying to sink ships is overdoing it slightly.

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Yamato

That's the thing. Sure, often people will think that sitting round chatting doesn't accomplish anything, and something must be Done, but on the other hand "direct action" so often just antagonises people who might otherwise be sympathetic to you.

Sympathy without action accomplishes nothing. The millions of people from around the world that Watson brought into his wheelhouse from having the #1 rated show on Animal Planet hasn't been counterproductive to his cause. In that top rated show by the way, he isn't drawing cartoons or writing letters to bureaucrats. He's sailing his ships into danger and owning poachers.

Interesting how easy it is for one to believe non-violent non-governmental action is somehow "antagonizing" and yet when you try to tell people that no, actually dropping bombs on peoples' heads and killing their family members is what causes hatred and resentment against you, they get bizarrely confused by it.

Elephant poachers in Africa get a bullet through the head, and I would argue rightly so. Paul Watson has never killed anyone, so making silly comments that Paul Watson "has no respect for anyone's safety at all" is obviously either totally uninformed or very sadly misinformed. Where in the world did you get that information at, pray tell?

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Space Commander Travis

Sympathy without action accomplishes nothing. The millions of people from around the world that Watson brought into his wheelhouse from having the #1 rated show on Animal Planet hasn't been counterproductive to his cause. In that top rated show by the way, he isn't drawing cartoons or writing letters to bureaucrats. He's sailing his ships into danger and owning poachers.

Interesting how easy it is for one to believe non-violent non-governmental action is somehow "antagonizing" and yet when you try to tell people that no, actually dropping bombs on peoples' heads and killing their family members is what causes hatred and resentment against you, they get bizarrely confused by it.

Elephant poachers in Africa get a bullet through the head, and I would argue rightly so. Paul Watson has never killed anyone, so making silly comments that Paul Watson "has no respect for anyone's safety at all" is obviously either totally uninformed or very sadly misinformed. Where in the world did you get that information at, pray tell?

Deliberately parking his ship in the path of japanese ships so they'd ram it, and he could blame them?

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Yamato

I believe he has a better offer from al-Qaeda Marine division because he has as much regard for human life as they do. And I am for conservation as much as any Green Party member, but trying to sink ships is overdoing it slightly.

Your Al Qaeda quip aside, no regard for human life? Show me where you learned that from, please. Don't buy the soap from the whaler-appeasers disturbed by the fact that the whalers get butt sore every year because somebody doesn't let them poach without paying a price for it. "Trying to sink ships" is overdoing it slightly. They either sink them or they don't. If you know of ships that they tried to sink but didn't, please name them, but with regards to enforcing the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary, they don't.

When people apprehend poachers' equipment, they take it and destroy it. There's nothing overdoing it slightly about it. Please include whales in your self-proclaimed support for conservation. Somehow it appears they're omitted.

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Yamato

Deliberately parking his ship in the path of japanese ships so they'd ram it, and he could blame them?

You have no idea what in the world you're talking about. Again, you are desperately uninformed. Do homework.

You didn't even answer my question. Let's try again. Where did you get your information at?

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Your Al Qaeda quip aside, no regard for human life? Show me where you learned that from, please. Don't buy the soap from the whaler-appeasers disturbed by the fact that the whalers get butt sore every year because somebody doesn't let them poach without paying a price for it. "Trying to sink ships" is overdoing it slightly. They either sink them or they don't. If you know of ships that they tried to sink but didn't, please name them, but with regards to enforcing the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary, they don't.

When people apprehend poachers' equipment, they take it and destroy it. There's nothing overdoing it slightly about it. Please include whales in your self-proclaimed support for conservation. Somehow it appears they're omitted.

You mean that ramming ships is regarding human life? Tree spiking is too?

****, the guy got busted several times for attempted murder for ramming ships and is wanted in another dozen countries for attempted murder, even in some countries like Costa Rica that invited him to help against poachers (they meant to stop poaching, not lynch the poachers when they asked for help).

Paul Watson should not be out in the wild but in an insane asylum, be it only to aid those who work day by day for conservation not getting a bad reputation by elements like him.

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Yamato

You mean that ramming ships is regarding human life? Tree spiking is too?

****, the guy got busted several times for attempted murder for ramming ships and is wanted in another dozen countries for attempted murder, even in some countries like Costa Rica that invited him to help against poachers (they meant to stop poaching, not lynch the poachers when they asked for help).

LOL Source, please.

Paul Watson should not be out in the wild but in an insane asylum, be it only to aid those who work day by day for conservation not getting a bad reputation by elements like him.

Sounds like a whaler's opinion. You effectively advocate the mass murder of whales. He's doing the job that governments refuse to do. If Australia sent its navy to defend its EEZ, or the SOWS or its own territorial waters that the illegal Japanese whalers are violating almost as we speak and fired shells across their bow somehow that wouldn't qualify for your silly charges because why? Because it's the gubmint; something you respect.

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LOL Source, please.

Sounds like a whaler's opinion. You effectively advocate the mass murder of whales. He's doing the job that governments refuse to do. If Australia sent its navy to defend its EEZ, or the SOWS or its own territorial waters that the illegal Japanese whalers are violating almost as we speak and fired shells across their bow somehow that wouldn't qualify for your silly charges because why? Because it's the gubmint; something you respect.

1986: Sea Shepherd attempts to stop Faroe Islands pilot whale harvest. Using rifles, Sea

Shepherd activists shoot at Faroe Islands police in an attempt to sink their rubber dinghies. The

vessel "Sea Shepherd" was ordered to leave Faroese territorial waters. The police report of 7

October 1986 states: "One of the rubber dinghies was attacked directly by a "Speed Line" line

rifle. The attack ... endangered the lives of the police crewmembers ... and signal flares

containing phosphorous was thrown at the police. At a later stage the Sea Shepherd used "toads"

(rotating iron spikes, pointed and sharp at both ends) against the rubber dinghies ... petrol was

poured over the side of the ship and signal flares were thrown from the "Sea Shepherd" in an

attempt to set the petrol on fire."

1986: Sea Shepherd claims responsibility for the sinking of two whaling vessels in Reykjavik,

Iceland, and for malicious damage to a whaling station. (This act of violence was carried out after

Iceland stopped whaling in line with the IWC moratorium on commercial whaling.) Attack

carried out by Sea Shepherd members Rodney A. Coronado and David Howitt. (Coronado linked

to Animal Liberation Front and arrested eight years later by United States FBI for his part in an

ALF attack on Michigan State University research laboratory. Charges included use of an

explosive device, theft and arson.)

1988: Paul Watson returns in Iceland demanding to be held responsible for the sinking of the

whaling vessels in Reykjavik in 1986. (He is arrested and held for questioning and told he could

face several years' imprisonment. In a press release, the Icelandic Ministry of Justice stated: "At

questioning, Paul Watson has admitted that he has given some remarks that connect him with the

sabotage, but in spite of this he now claims that he neither took part in the planning nor the

execution of the sabotage.") There was no evidence incriminating Watson. He was ordered to

leave the country and declared persona non grata in Iceland.

1991: A US crew member on a Mexican fishing vessel, reports that Sea Shepherd, some of whose

crew were armed with rifles, rammed his vessel causing considerable damage.

1992: Sea Shepherd makes unsuccessful attempts at ramming three Costa Rican fishing vessels.

In a written complaint to the local authorities the fishermen report that the Sea Shepherd crew

shot at them with bullets containing a red substance, hitting two of them and causing them great

pain.

Which all ended in

1994: Sea Shepherd loses observer status at the International Whaling Commission. IWC

Secretary, Ray Gambell, declares that the IWC and all its member states ardently condemn Sea

Shepherd's acts of terrorism.

Source

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Space Commander Travis

You have no idea what in the world you're talking about. Again, you are desperately uninformed. Do homework.

You didn't even answer my question. Let's try again. Where did you get your information at?

Sea Shepherd leader Paul Watson, President of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society, later stated in October 2009 that with a top speed of 50 knots, the vessel would be used to intercept harpoon ships and physically block them from harpooning whales, allowing Sea Shepherd to "mount the most ambitious and aggressive effort to date to obstruct the slaughter of the whales in the Southern Ocean." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ady_Gil

And the captain of the Ady Gil did not in any way endanger the lives of his own crew (who would, any idiot, even one as dense as Sea Shepherd's skipper, could surely see would inevitably come off far worse) by deliberately parking himself right in the way of the Japanese ship, did he. No.

The idiot even deliberately painted her in radar-absorbent paint so that it would be less conspicuous. The whole organisation is just a menace.

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Yamato

1986: Sea Shepherd attempts to stop Faroe Islands pilot whale harvest. Using rifles, Sea

Shepherd activists shoot at Faroe Islands police in an attempt to sink their rubber dinghies. The

vessel "Sea Shepherd" was ordered to leave Faroese territorial waters. The police report of 7

October 1986 states: "One of the rubber dinghies was attacked directly by a "Speed Line" line

rifle. The attack ... endangered the lives of the police crewmembers ... and signal flares

containing phosphorous was thrown at the police. At a later stage the Sea Shepherd used "toads"

(rotating iron spikes, pointed and sharp at both ends) against the rubber dinghies ... petrol was

poured over the side of the ship and signal flares were thrown from the "Sea Shepherd" in an

attempt to set the petrol on fire."

1986: Sea Shepherd claims responsibility for the sinking of two whaling vessels in Reykjavik,

Iceland, and for malicious damage to a whaling station. (This act of violence was carried out after

Iceland stopped whaling in line with the IWC moratorium on commercial whaling.) Attack

carried out by Sea Shepherd members Rodney A. Coronado and David Howitt. (Coronado linked

to Animal Liberation Front and arrested eight years later by United States FBI for his part in an

ALF attack on Michigan State University research laboratory. Charges included use of an

explosive device, theft and arson.)

1988: Paul Watson returns in Iceland demanding to be held responsible for the sinking of the

whaling vessels in Reykjavik in 1986. (He is arrested and held for questioning and told he could

face several years' imprisonment. In a press release, the Icelandic Ministry of Justice stated: "At

questioning, Paul Watson has admitted that he has given some remarks that connect him with the

sabotage, but in spite of this he now claims that he neither took part in the planning nor the

execution of the sabotage.") There was no evidence incriminating Watson. He was ordered to

leave the country and declared persona non grata in Iceland.

1991: A US crew member on a Mexican fishing vessel, reports that Sea Shepherd, some of whose

crew were armed with rifles, rammed his vessel causing considerable damage.

1992: Sea Shepherd makes unsuccessful attempts at ramming three Costa Rican fishing vessels.

In a written complaint to the local authorities the fishermen report that the Sea Shepherd crew

shot at them with bullets containing a red substance, hitting two of them and causing them great

pain.

Which all ended in

1994: Sea Shepherd loses observer status at the International Whaling Commission. IWC

Secretary, Ray Gambell, declares that the IWC and all its member states ardently condemn Sea

Shepherd's acts of terrorism.

Source

Hey Kool Aid!

1986: Sea Shepherd attempts to stop Faroe Islands pilot whale harvest. Using rifles, Sea

Shepherd activists shoot at Faroe Islands police in an attempt to sink their rubber dinghies. The

vessel "Sea Shepherd" was ordered to leave Faroese territorial waters. The police report of 7

October 1986 states: "One of the rubber dinghies was attacked directly by a "Speed Line" line

rifle. The attack ... endangered the lives of the police crewmembers ... and signal flares

containing phosphorous was thrown at the police. At a later stage the Sea Shepherd used "toads"

(rotating iron spikes, pointed and sharp at both ends) against the rubber dinghies ... petrol was

poured over the side of the ship and signal flares were thrown from the "Sea Shepherd" in an

attempt to set the petrol on fire."

Nonsense. Sea Shepherd didn't use rifles because Sea Shepherd doesn't have rifles. I endorse that action in the Faeros entirely. Japanese whalers have security ships in their illegal whale hunt too. Sea Shepherd fires safety lines and flares at their ships too when they get too close trying to intimidate their crew. I suppose you think that just because it's police that police are always right? I'm going to create a new video documenting the Occupy Wall Street movement and just how wrong police often really are. This is about the sanctity of life and being human enough to respect that sanctity of something that isn't human. Not many people can do that. Thank God some people can.

If they have evidence that he tried to murder someone and want to try that nonsense out in court, why isn't he apprehended?

http://www.earthtimes.org/conservation/sea-shepherd-fights-slaughter-pilot-whales-faroe-islands/720/

986: Sea Shepherd claims responsibility for the sinking of two whaling vessels in Reykjavik,

Iceland, and for malicious damage to a whaling station. (This act of violence was carried out after

Iceland stopped whaling in line with the IWC moratorium on commercial whaling.) Attack

carried out by Sea Shepherd members Rodney A. Coronado and David Howitt. (Coronado linked

to Animal Liberation Front and arrested eight years later by United States FBI for his part in an

ALF attack on Michigan State University research laboratory. Charges included use of an

explosive device, theft and arson.)

This isn't evidence to support your ridiculous claim of "attempted murder" either. I totally support this action. 10 ships have been sunk by Sea Shepherd so this is small fry.

1988: Paul Watson returns in Iceland demanding to be held responsible for the sinking of the

whaling vessels in Reykjavik in 1986. (He is arrested and held for questioning and told he could

face several years' imprisonment. In a press release, the Icelandic Ministry of Justice stated: "At

questioning, Paul Watson has admitted that he has given some remarks that connect him with the

sabotage, but in spite of this he now claims that he neither took part in the planning nor the

execution of the sabotage.") There was no evidence incriminating Watson. He was ordered to

leave the country and declared persona non grata in Iceland.

That is truly admirable for someone to return to the scene of an alleged crime and demand to be held responsible for it. He defied that entire country to take him to trial so he could destroy their illegal activities in court. They didn't want to have anything to do with that and they made him leave. Impressive to say the least.

1991: A US crew member on a Mexican fishing vessel, reports that Sea Shepherd, some of whose

crew were armed with rifles, rammed his vessel causing considerable damage.

Sea Shepherd doesn't use rifles. Those Mexican fishermen have an overactive imagination and no evidence.

1992: Sea Shepherd makes unsuccessful attempts at ramming three Costa Rican fishing vessels.

In a written complaint to the local authorities the fishermen report that the Sea Shepherd crew

shot at them with bullets containing a red substance, hitting two of them and causing them great

pain.

This allegation might have some legitimacy in that I can at least theorize what that was. Even if I take the accusation as true, it sounds like paintballs to me. Paint balls are not lethal. Show me the evidence where this has produced charges of "attempted murder". That is a lie. And btw, I fully endorse the use of paintballs in SSCS's activism. Have you ever shot a paintball or been hit by one? I highly recommend it for an exciting afternoon in the woods.

Which all ended in

1994: Sea Shepherd loses observer status at the International Whaling Commission. IWC

Secretary, Ray Gambell, declares that the IWC and all its member states ardently condemn Sea

Shepherd's acts of terrorism.

That defunct organization is the reason why commercial whaling continues to this day despite the planet-wide ban of it. This too has nothing to do with your ridiculous claim of "attempted murder". So why even bring it up to defend your claim? You should have been big enough to admit that you had no evidence and you're sorry for saying it. But you're introducing government bureaucracy on this thread to try to legitimize government bureaucracy? The IWC is the impotent organization that allows Japan their "kill a thousand whales a year" scientific exception. Obviously it's no secret that Sea Shepherd doesn't respect this decision so if we don't respect what government does why do you think it's any big deal to not respect what governments say?

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Yamato
Edited by Yamato

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Yamato

Sea Shepherd leader Paul Watson, President of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society, later stated in October 2009 that with a top speed of 50 knots, the vessel would be used to intercept harpoon ships and physically block them from harpooning whales, allowing Sea Shepherd to "mount the most ambitious and aggressive effort to date to obstruct the slaughter of the whales in the Southern Ocean." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ady_Gil

And the captain of the Ady Gil did not in any way endanger the lives of his own crew (who would, any idiot, even one as dense as Sea Shepherd's skipper, could surely see would inevitably come off far worse) by deliberately parking himself right in the way of the Japanese ship, did he. No.

The idiot even deliberately painted her in radar-absorbent paint so that it would be less conspicuous. The whole organisation is just a menace.

Sea Shepherd leader Paul Watson, President of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society, later stated in October 2009 that with a top speed of 50 knots, the vessel would be used to intercept harpoon ships and physically block them from harpooning whales, allowing Sea Shepherd to "mount the most ambitious and aggressive effort to date to obstruct the slaughter of the whales in the Southern Ocean." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ady_Gil

And the captain of the Ady Gil did not in any way endanger the lives of his own crew (who would, any idiot, even one as dense as Sea Shepherd's skipper, could surely see would inevitably come off far worse) by deliberately parking himself right in the way of the Japanese ship, did he. No.

The idiot even deliberately painted her in radar-absorbent paint so that it would be less conspicuous. The whole organisation is just a menace.

Sea Shepherd leader Paul Watson, President of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society, later stated in October 2009 that with a top speed of 50 knots, the vessel would be used to intercept harpoon ships and physically block them from harpooning whales, allowing Sea Shepherd to "mount the most ambitious and aggressive effort to date to obstruct the slaughter of the whales in the Southern Ocean." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ady_Gil

Okay? Sounds good. What does that have to do with your lie about Paul Watson?

And the captain of the Ady Gil did not in any way endanger the lives of his own crew (who would, any idiot, even one as dense as Sea Shepherd's skipper, could surely see would inevitably come off far worse) by deliberately parking himself right in the way of the Japanese ship, did he. No.

The idiot even deliberately painted her in radar-absorbent paint so that it would be less conspicuous.

.

What does that have to do with your lie about Paul Watson?

Who was the captain of the Ady Gil? Do you even know?

He, not Watson, didn't deliberately park himself "right in front of" anything. He was out in the middle of an ocean where a blind man in the wheelhouse of that Japanese ship wouldn't have hit him. The whaling fleet passed Bethune's ship. They were minutes behind. They had minutes to see what was obviously in the water in front of them and simply steer out of the way. They steered into the way. A 3-year old child could have easily avoided that collision from a mile away. The Japanese whaler approached the Ady Gil, turned into it and T-boned it at full throttle. THAT should have been prosecuted as attempted murder, but of course it's the gubmint, so it's okay.

Do you care and can you accept the facts of what happened? First of all, the Ady Gil was being abandoned because it was out of fuel. It was waiting for the Steve Irwin which was hundreds of miles away to take on fuel and continue the action. That's why it wasn't going "50 knots" and successfully avoiding the poachers. Second, there's video evidence of what happened and I hope you're honest enough to look at it. The evidence also shows Bethune to be negligent for the safety of his crew in my opinion. He wasn't even on the bridge to "park right in front of" anything; that is a lie. They were sitting on the back of the ship, laughing at the LRAD of the approaching criminals. I'm sure he had some small quantity of fuel in his tanks and when that ship began making its aggressive approach and turned that LRAD on, he should have already been on the throttle maneuvering out of its deadly path. It was poor decision making by Bethune. He didn't take the Japanese criminals seriously enough and he lost his multi-million dollar ship. That you bought the media kool aid that he sunk it on purpose makes me wonder what else you heard in the media you've failed to question.

The whole organisation is just a menace

Thank you! That's high praise. As Wikileaks have proven, Sea Shepherd has been extremely effective against the butt hurt whalers. The intimidation factor of the ships is part of why the whalers threw in the towel early last season. They knew their game was up and they turned tail and ran home, Sea Shepherd hard on their heels.

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Space Commander Travis

Okay? Sounds good. What does that have to do with your lie about Paul Watson?

.

What does that have to do with your lie about Paul Watson?

Who was the captain of the Ady Gil? Do you even know?

He, not Watson, didn't deliberately park himself "right in front of" anything. He was out in the middle of an ocean where a blind man in the wheelhouse of that Japanese ship wouldn't have hit him. The whaling fleet passed Bethune's ship. They were minutes behind. They had minutes to see what was obviously in the water in front of them and simply steer out of the way. They steered into the way. A 3-year old child could have easily avoided that collision from a mile away. The Japanese whaler approached the Ady Gil, turned into it and T-boned it at full throttle. THAT should have been prosecuted as attempted murder, but of course it's the gubmint, so it's okay.

He was following instructions from his leader, Watson didn't exactly censure him for criminal stupidity, did he. And that's right, yes, they were right out in the middle of the ocean, lying with the engines off, just minding their own business, weren't they. And they couldn't possibly have seen the Japanese ship approaching, could they. And if they did, no one could have expected them to try to get out of the way, would they? That was just unreasonable. How fast could a whaling ship go, even at full throttle? Don't you think our heroes should have been keeping a proper lookout?

Do you care and can you accept the facts of what happened? First of all, the Ady Gil was being abandoned because it was out of fuel.

This gets better and better. So sea Shepherd were so incompetent they sent their boats way outside their normal endurance? Funny how when she was Earthrace, she made it all the way round the world, but she ran out of fuel right in the middle of the Japanese whaling fleet, wasn't it.

It was waiting for the Steve Irwin which was hundreds of miles away to take on fuel and continue the action. That's why it wasn't going "50 knots" and successfully avoiding the poachers. Second, there's video evidence of what happened and I hope you're honest enough to look at it. The evidence also shows Bethune to be negligent for the safety of his crew in my opinion. He wasn't even on the bridge to "park right in front of" anything; that is a lie. They were sitting on the back of the ship, laughing at the LRAD of the approaching criminals. I'm sure he had some small quantity of fuel in his tanks and when that ship began making its aggressive approach and turned that LRAD on, he should have already been on the throttle maneuvering out of its deadly path. It was poor decision making by Bethune. He didn't take the Japanese criminals seriously enough and he lost his multi-million dollar ship. That you bought the media kool aid that he sunk it on purpose makes me wonder what else you heard in the media you've failed to question.
]

funny, now you do seem to be arguing that Bethune was incompetent and negligent; but I suppose you're trying to argue that this was entirely off his own bat and was ntohing at all to do with orders from Watson, i suppose that's it. The only trouble with that is that Watson never actually seemed to censure Bethune for his actions, which woukld suggest, at the very least, that he condoned them, even if not deliberately instructed him to do it. And did you see this, as well? "Bethune posted an open letter to his Facebook page on October 6, 2010 in which he said that after colliding with the Shōnan Maru 2, Watson directed him to deliberately sink the Ady Gil for PR purposes".

* Incidentally, Could I put in a request please? Could people please stop using the phrase "kool aid"? It doesn't actually mean anything.

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Yamato

He was following instructions from his leader, Watson didn't exactly censure him for criminal stupidity, did he. And that's right, yes, they were right out in the middle of the ocean, lying with the engines off, just minding their own business, weren't they. And they couldn't possibly have seen the Japanese ship approaching, could they. And if they did, no one could have expected them to try to get out of the way, would they? That was just unreasonable. How fast could a whaling ship go, even at full throttle? Don't you think our heroes should have been keeping a proper lookout?

This gets better and better. So sea Shepherd were so incompetent they sent their boats way outside their normal endurance? Funny how when she was Earthrace, she made it all the way round the world, but she ran out of fuel right in the middle of the Japanese whaling fleet, wasn't it.

]

funny, now you do seem to be arguing that Bethune was incompetent and negligent; but I suppose you're trying to argue that this was entirely off his own bat and was ntohing at all to do with orders from Watson, i suppose that's it. The only trouble with that is that Watson never actually seemed to censure Bethune for his actions, which woukld suggest, at the very least, that he condoned them, even if not deliberately instructed him to do it. And did you see this, as well? "Bethune posted an open letter to his Facebook page on October 6, 2010 in which he said that after colliding with the Shōnan Maru 2, Watson directed him to deliberately sink the Ady Gil for PR purposes".

* Incidentally, Could I put in a request please? Could people please stop using the phrase "kool aid"? It doesn't actually mean anything.

First of all, thank you for watching the video and acknowledging it at least by implication.

He was following instructions from his leader, Watson didn't exactly censure him for criminal stupidity, did he. And that's right, yes, they were right out in the middle of the ocean, lying with the engines off, just minding their own business, weren't they. And they couldn't possibly have seen the Japanese ship approaching, could they. And if they did, no one could have expected them to try to get out of the way, would they? That was just unreasonable. How fast could a whaling ship go, even at full throttle? Don't you think our heroes should have been keeping a proper lookout?

Bethune isn't smart enough to see he's out of fuel? Watson watches Ady Gil's fuel gauge from the Steve Irwin? What criminal stupidity are you talking about? He was out of fuel in the middle of the ocean. Nothing stupid about that. That was a result of accomplishing his mission. He was juiced up on adrenaline obviously and became overconfident. He trusted the whalers more than he should have. Stupid? Okay, if you want to be harsh you can use that word. Criminal? How? Yes, I see negligence on the part of Peter Bethune and the other crew. I'm not how many seconds it would have taken for them to move out of the way of the thuggish whalers who rammed him. The engines of the Ady were known on though, and at idle. Per the video evidence, they knew the ship was there, they were looking out, so not looking wasn't the problem, it was not acting. I presume he could have just jumped into the cockpit and hit the throttle but I'm not sure.

This gets better and better. So sea Shepherd were so incompetent they sent their boats way outside their normal endurance? Funny how when she was Earthrace, she made it all the way round the world, but she ran out of fuel right in the middle of the Japanese whaling fleet, wasn't it.

You lack facts sir and so you're surmising what you can think of and assigning that to Sea Shepherd so they sound incompetent. The Ady Gil consciously ran to the limits of her endurance to slow down the whalers long enough for the Bob Barker to catch up. You see the Bob Barker in the beginning of the video sailing by. Incidentally, the collision was filmed from the Bob Barker as well, showing the Japanese ship turning into the Ady so I think the matter of most importance is now behind us. As for the Earthrace, it refueled many times in that record setting run so there's nothing "funny" there at all.

The only trouble with that is that Watson never actually seemed to censure Bethune for his actions, which woukld suggest, at the very least, that he condoned them, even if not deliberately instructed him to do it.

You have no idea that Watson never censured Bethune. Maybe he did. To do so publicly would have been stupid, and harmful to Bethune's freedom to even imply that the Japanese weren't responsible for the collision.

And did you see this, as well? "Bethune posted an open letter to his Facebook page on October 6, 2010 in which he said that after colliding with the Shōnan Maru 2, Watson directed him to deliberately sink the Ady Gil for PR purposes".

Unfortunately Whale Wars produces a lot of video evidence which already filmed Bethune and Swift having lengthy discussion about sinking the Ady and Bethune agreed, on the bridge after being given time to decide. His comment is mostly true. "Directed" is a stretch. Influenced off camera? Perhaps, despite the lack of evidence, but what is critical here to know is that towing the Ady back to port was preventing Sea Shepherd's mission which is to stop whaling. It was already beginning to sink on its own and the prospects of saving it were very poor. They cut the ship lose, and I would hope smartly used its sinking as an excellent PR campaign, and then went on to stop the whaling. I don't see how it could have been handled better. Bethune was bitter about losing his baby, that's plain enough to see. He mortgaged his family home to pay for that ship. But beyond this isolated incident, Paul Watson does use the media to his advantage. He knows how to handle those clowns and does so masterfully. He makes lengthy comments about his philosophy at the same animal conference I showcased above if you're interested, look it up. His comments are agreeable and for our purposes of discussion, defensible too. If you want to listen to the entire 52 minute interview and discuss it, it would be my pleasure. Ask for the link if you need it.

funny, now you do seem to be arguing that Bethune was incompetent and negligent; but I suppose you're trying to argue that this was entirely off his own bat and was ntohing at all to do with orders from Watson, i suppose that's it.

Yes that's basically it. Out of fuel is out of fuel, mate. He was idle not because of an order but because of necessity. As it turns out, the decision on how the Bob Barker would intercept the whaling vessels was made between Captain Chuck Swift and Captain Peter Bethune who are both experienced skippers at sea and trusted to be responsible for their own ships in the fleet. What was done, how it was done, was necessary for SSCS to shut down the hunt. Their orders are to shut down the hunt, Watson doesn't hold a telephone under his crystal ball telling them every move they make. Trying to apply even a hypothetical blame, such as an order from Watson to disregard Bethune's fuel gauge and drive the last scraps out of the fuel pumps and fry their motors wouldn't have been prudent. Yes, he was sitting idle in the water. The whaling vessels had already went past him. The security ship was the last to approach and Bethune was negligent of the danger he was in. In hindsight it was a fatal mistake for the ship.

* Incidentally, Could I put in a request please? Could people please stop using the phrase "kool aid"? It doesn't actually mean anything.

I will stop using the phrase. It means fatally flawed. It's found in most of what the government and the media tell us and why you should question everything you hear from these two sources.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Kool%20Aid%20Drinker

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