WTC7

[skyeagle409]

I don't even think you know what you are talking about half the time!

Then listen to this.

How Building Implosions Work

According to Brent Blanchard, an implosion expert with the demolition consulting firm Protec Documentation Services, virtually every building in the world is unique.

Demolishing steel columns is a bit more difficult, as the dense material is much stronger. For buildings with a steel support structure, blasters typically use the specialized explosive material cyclotrimethylenetrinitramine, called RDX for short. RDX-based explosive compounds expand at a very high rate of speed, up to 27,000 feet per second (8,230 meters per second). Instead of disintegrating the entire column, the concentrated, high-velocity pressure slices right through the steel, splitting it in half. Additionally, blasters may ignite dynamite on one side of the column to push it over in a particular direction.

To ignite both RDX and dynamite, you must apply a severe shock. In building demolition, blasters accomplish this with a blasting cap, a small amount of explosive material (called the primer charge) connected to some sort of fuse. The traditional fuse design is a long cord with explosive material inside. When you ignite one end of the cord, the explosive material inside it burns at a steady pace, and the flame travels down the cord to the detonator on the other end. When it reaches this point, it sets off the primary charge.

These days, blasters often use an electrical detonator instead of a traditional fuse. An electrical detonator fuse, called a lead line, is just a long length of electrical wire. At the detonator end, the wire is surrounded by a layer of explosive material. This detonator is attached directly to the primer charge affixed to the main explosives. When you send current through the wire (by hooking it up to a battery, for example), electrical resistance causes the wire to heat up. This heat ignites the flammable substance on the detonator end, which in turn sets off the primer charge, which triggers the main explosives

My link

Edited April 23, 2012 by skyeagle409

[RaptorBites]

I'll take the word from those at GZ thanks.

So you mean to tell me you would rather take the word of regualr people who where in those towers that stated they heard what sounded like explosions?

Can a normal person tell the difference between demo charges going off and the sound of an elevator slamming down at the bottom of the shafts?

Elevator stalls on way up, just above lobby.

Ian Robb: It was a good day to be late for work. As Ian Robb, a Leeds-born personnel manager for a financial services firm, pushed into the lobby of the north tower of the World Trade Centre on Tuesday morning he was already running half-an-hour behind - it was already past 8.45am. His sense of flustered impatience must have been compounded when he just missed one of the express lifts for the upper floors. Mild exasperation surely mounted to irritated frustration when the elevator he did catch stopped moving almost immediately and lodged in the lift shaft. It was, classically, one of those "why me?" moments.

In the stalled lift in which Ian Robb was trapped, routine exasperation had given way to rising alarm as the sprinkler system slowly began to flood it. Those inside prised the doors open to discover that they were still on the ground floor. A fireman told him that the lift he'd just missed had crashed to the bottom of its shaft. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20010918/ai_n14406873

Firefighter Peter Fallucca: Before we got in, all the elevators were crashed down in the lobby, and we were going to the stairwell. See all the elevators were crashed down, big slabs of marble on the floor, all the ceiling tiles of the dropped ceiling was falling down, wires hanging. You see wires and stuff hanging inside the elevator shafts, because the doors were blown right off the elevators. http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/met_WTC_histories_full_01.html

I can post more but at this point I dont feel I need to.

So tell me, now, are you willing to beleive an untrained ear to know the difference between a demo charge going off and an elevator slamming to the floor?

Nevermind, I will answer that for you......NO

[skyeagle409]

Internet Warrior on a Debunking Crusade

Considering that the 9/11 Truthers have failed to produce any evidence of explosives, it is not difficult to debunk their claims.

[Stundie]

Then listen to this.

And where does it tell you how many buildings he's imploded again??

[skyeagle409]

And where does it tell you how many buildings he's imploded again??

He is an expert on demolitions, so your question is moot.Haven't you been paying any attention??? Brent Blanchard, a demolitions expert with Protec

Edited April 23, 2012 by skyeagle409

[Stundie]

So you mean to tell me you would rather take the word of regualr people who where in those towers that stated they heard what sounded like explosions?

The sounds of explosions were not located in the towers, they were located at numerous places. Some people were in, some people were out of the towers, some were blocks away.

If you have evidence or a source for what you think the explosions were, which were heard not long after the planes hit the tower up until the point WTC 7 collapses, then I will take the word of people and video footage capturing the explosions at GZ than someone who thinks they know better or thinks it was something else, without providing a scrap of evidence to support their claim

Can a normal person tell the difference between demo charges going off and the sound of an elevator slamming down at the bottom of the shafts?

Why don't you ask the guy in the elevator what he heard??

I can post more but at this point I dont feel I need to.

Don't bother unless you have sources for all the explosions that were heard throughout the day, then I will have to go along with what hundreds of people heard, whether you think that he and plenty of other can't tell the difference between a elevator slamming and explosions.

So tell me, now, are you willing to beleive an untrained ear to know the difference between a demo charge going off and an elevator slamming to the floor?

And how many out of those people are untrained?? Do you know everyone at GZ and their backgrounds to know they have untrained ears to tell the difference??

Do you know better? Of course you do, in your head! The reality is there were plenty of people their including firefighters, policemen, and no doubt some of the general public who know the difference between an explosion and an elevator slamming down. They are not all wrong, just ask the man in the car in the video above, I'm sure he can tell you the difference.

Nevermind, I will answer that for you......NO

Maybe you shouldn't answer that for me. As it makes you look, wrong you silly billy!! lol

[Stundie]

Considering that the 9/11 Truthers have failed to produce any evidence of explosives, it is not difficult to debunk their claims.

But as we are seeing, you are not debunking anything.......lol

You have fooled yourself and one other by the looks of it that you are debunking, but you are having a fight with yourself and I'm just laughing at the spectacle.

I should stop it, but it's too funny cause you really believe your debunking crusade is working it's magic.

[Stundie]

He is an expert on demolitions, so your question is moot.

How many buildings??

Haven't you been paying any attention??? Brent Blanchard, a demolitions expert with Protec

His own company that provides equipment.

I supply condoms to heart surgeons plus I run www.heartsurgeryworld.com, so I'm an expert too.

And I'll tell you something, Steven Biko died from a heart attack from his own suicide too!!

[RaptorBites]

And how many out of those people are untrained?? Do you know everyone at GZ and their backgrounds to know they have untrained ears to tell the difference??

Can you verify the background of each and every witness that heard explosions?

This I would love to see.

Apperantly assuptions is all you have as well.

[Stundie]

Ian Robb: It was a good day to be late for work. As Ian Robb, a Leeds-born personnel manager for a financial services firm, pushed into the lobby of the north tower of the World Trade Centre on Tuesday morning he was already running half-an-hour behind - it was already past 8.45am. His sense of flustered impatience must have been compounded when he just missed one of the express lifts for the upper floors. Mild exasperation surely mounted to irritated frustration when the elevator he did catch stopped moving almost immediately and lodged in the lift shaft. It was, classically, one of those "why me?" moments.

In the stalled lift in which Ian Robb was trapped, routine exasperation had given way to rising alarm as the sprinkler system slowly began to flood it. Those inside prised the doors open to discover that they were still on the ground floor. A fireman told him that the lift he'd just missed had crashed to the bottom of its shaft. http://findarticles....18/ai_n14406873

I wonder if the fireman who told him could knows what an elevator slamming sounds like? I wonder if he had previous experience of elevators slamming hundreds of feet!

[skyeagle409]

I know, my Hollywood twoofer fantasy delusions, I imagine that some men covertly placed wireless remote explosive charges and thermite devices which they slowly set of and demolish the WTC 7 which comes down at free fall speed for a short period as the devices cut all the structural support and make the WTC7 come down at near free fall speed into a nice debris pile, explaining all the eyewitness accounts of explosions.

I guess you forgot that more than 175 pounds of thermite was unable to burn through a small steel box beam and that 1000 pounds of thermtie was unable to burn a vehicle in half. Ever wondered why the demolition community does not use thermite?

In regards to people hearing explosions.

we heard explosions coming from building two, the south tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten explosions. . . . We then realized the building started to come down." -- Firefighter Craig Carlsen Note where they put the "...."

Now for the whole quote

"... I guess about three minutes later you just heard explosions coming from building two, the south tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten explosions. At the time I didn't realize what it was. We realized later after talking and finding out that it was the floors collapsing to where the plane had hit."

My link

In other words he didn't hear bomb explosions, but noise generated by collapsing floors, which to him, sounded like explosions. I guess you forgot about that video I had posted where a crane collapsed with sounds that sounded llike explosions.

Edited April 23, 2012 by skyeagle409

[Stundie]

Can you verify the background of each and every witness that heard explosions?

This I would love to see.

Apperantly assuptions is all you have as well.

Nope I can't but you are the one claiming they can't tell the difference?? lol So you need to verify that they can't and not just assume that everyone can't.

And from behind your keyboard, can you verify that every witness who said there was explosions, all heard something something else?

That I would love to see.

What was that about assumptions again?? lol Cause you assume to know better! lol

[skyeagle409]

How many buildings?? His own company that provides equipment.

And he is a writer on the demolition process and he is a demolition expert. Have you seen the demolition photos accredited to him?

Edited April 23, 2012 by skyeagle409

[RaptorBites]

Listen Stundie, where is the proof demolition charges where used? Can you provide them?

The video link you posted of the WTC survivor seems to claim he hear multiple explosions. Can you tell me how many elevators where in WTC 1 and 2? An when those elevators fell, what the sound is like?

Firefighter Gregg Hansson: We went past the elevator banks. You could see that they were all blown out. http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110017.PDF

Can you explain this?

We were going to our shop to make a call and find out what the first explosion was and the place just came apart on us, Bobby said. What we found out later was the hot wind was the number 50 freight car falling from the 88th floor and it just came into the area where we were and just blew us back out into the parking lot. http://www.911ea.org/News_Stories_From_September_2002.htm

How about this?

I am fine with the fact that you want to take accounts of eye witnesses outside of the WTC as well to verify your fantasy that explosions where used. However, you have not shown evidence of demo charges being used, just reports of what sounds like explosions. :woot:

Edited April 23, 2012 by RaptorBites

[skyeagle409]

Nope I can't but you are the one claiming they can't tell the difference??

Where is your evidence that bombs were used? I am still waiting!!

[Stundie]

I guess you forgot that more than 175 pounds of thermite was unable to burn through a small steel box beam and that 1000 pounds of thermtie was unable to burn a vehicle in half.

Jon Cole didn't require anywhere near that amount.

Ever wondered why the demolition community does not use thermite?

It has been used by a demolition company long ago on a high rise steel structure....

http://books.google.com/books?id=xd0DAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA657&dq=Popular%20Mechanics%20thermite&pg=PA657#v=onepage&q&f=false

They probably use explsoves because explosives are better than thermite. Even though thermite can cut steel beams quite silently in comparison.

Ever wondered why the demolition community does not use fires?

In regards to people hearing explosions.

I thought it was an elevator slamming down.

In other words he didn't hear bomb explosions, but noise generated by collapsing floors, which to him, sounded like explosions.

Explosions were heard by people before the collapse, during the collapse and after the collapse of WTC 1 & 2.

I guess you forgot about that video I had posted where a crane collapsed with sounds that sounded llike explosions.

Yep, internet warrior and debunking crusade thinks they heard a crane collapse.

Cause you know better don't ya? lol

Hilarious!!

[RaptorBites]

Nope I can't but you are the one claiming they can't tell the difference?? lol So you need to verify that they can't and not just assume that everyone can't.

And from behind your keyboard, can you verify that every witness who said there was explosions, all heard something something else?

That I would love to see.

What was that about assumptions again?? lol Cause you assume to know better! lol

Show me proof that your witness to explosions can tell the difference. You want to use them as your proof that there where legitimate demolition explosions.

I am sorry but the burden of proof is for you to show us proof that demolition was used. Which you can't other than using eye witness accounts which YOU cannot verify as being experts in Demolition.

[Stundie]

Listen Stundie, where is the proof demolition charges where used? Can you provide them?

I don't have proof.....lol I have evidence suggesting it.

The video link you posted of the WTC survivor seems to claim he hear multiple explosions. Can you tell me how many elevators where in WTC 1 and 2? An when those elevators fell, what the sound is like?

Can you tell us that they were lots of elevators and that you know better than the man who was their in the elevator shaft, feeling the explosions.

Sure thing, I'll provide all the evidence you need once you have proven that it was elevators shafts.

Proof doesn't constitute the fact there were lots of elevator shafts, therefore it was one of them.

Cause as I said, witnesses heard explosions all over the place and at various times.

Can you explain this?

How about this?

Probably explosions, they tend to blow things out.

I am fine with the fact that you want to take accounts of eye witnesses outside of the WTC as well to verify your fantasy that explosions where used.

Just as I'm fine with your interpretation of eye witness accounts to verify your fantasy that you know better than the people at GZ and they heard anything you and your pal can imagine, but it definitely wasn't an explosion. lol

However, you have not shown evidence of demo charges being used, just reports of what sounds like explosions. :woot:

Watch the videos, plenty of evidence of explosives going off and eye witness accounts and you can't show evidence that charges were not being used either or that the people were wrong in their accounts.

[Stundie]

Show me proof that your witness to explosions can tell the difference.

You are the one who claims they can't tell the difference, its upto you to prove that they didn't hear what they said they heard.

You want to use them as your proof that there where legitimate demolition explosions.

No, I want to show the possibility, which it shows actually.

I am sorry but the burden of proof is for you to show us proof that demolition was used.

Except when you want to counter claim they heard something else, then the burden of proof is still on me is it!! lol

Which you can't other than using eye witness accounts which YOU cannot verify as being experts in Demolition.

And videos of explosions too.

However, you can't verify or prove they heard something else, just your assumption that every person at GZ who reported explosions don't know jack!! lol

[RaptorBites]

I thought it was an elevator slamming down.

Funny thing here is, you seem to want to shift all the sounds of explosions to just elevators. Which of course leads to your next statement.

Explosions were heard by people before the collapse, during the collapse and after the collapse of WTC 1 & 2.

Elevators, Floors collapsing, fires from elevator shafts.

Does this make any sense to you right now?

[Stundie]

Funny thing here is, you seem to want to shift all the sounds of explosions to just elevators.

No, I'm quite happy with sticking with the fact they said they heard explosions.

The elevator shafts is your pet theory. Like these guys, they don't know jack, this is an elevator shaft right??

Which of course leads to your next statement.

Elevators, Floors collapsing, fires from elevator shafts.

Does this make any sense to you right now?

Of course, the guys above heard Elevators or Floors collapsing and fires from elevator shafts, cause you are an expert on the sounds that Elevators, Floors collapsing and fires from elevator shafts make.

[RaptorBites]

Except when you want to counter claim they heard something else, then the burden of proof is still on me is it!! lol

Of course it is, Official Story states explosions heard where not due to demolition charges. My counter to your claim is because you cannot prove that the witnesses to your explosions even know what the sound of a demo charge is, can you?

So you using them as evidence that explosions where used is the same as saying turbs knows what he is talking about when it comes to moon landings. (sorry low blow)

Now I understand your position when you state that you are using them as a "possibility" that demos where used. I get it.

No, I want to show the possibility, which it shows actually.

Where?

[Stundie]

Of course it is, Official Story states explosions heard where not due to demolition charges.

In the official version, there is no explosions. Nobody heard them apparently and if they did, it was an elevator slamming.

My counter to your claim is because you cannot prove that the witnesses to your explosions even know what the sound of a demo charge is, can you?

I don't claim to think they were mistaken, you do, so therefore you need prove that every single witness is incapable of figuring out what an explosive sounds like verse a elevator slamming down.

So you using them as evidence that explosions where used is the same as saying turbs knows what he is talking about when it comes to moon landings. (sorry low blow)

Using no evidence to counter their claims that they heard explosions is about as convincing as Skyeagle claiming that I used A&E 9/11 Truth as demolition experts! l lol

Now I understand your position when you state that you are using them as a "possibility" that demos where used. I get it.

You would think so, but then you post this.

Where?

The thread is full of eyewitness accounts, news reports, videos.

Internet Warrior blindness to the facts is makes a mighty debunking crusade and might be more important than a knight sword!

[skyeagle409]

The thread is full of eyewitness accounts, news reports, videos.

Doesn't mean a thing if they can't provide evidence that demolition explosives were used. We have evidence of fires and impact damage, but nothing supporting explosives.

Internet Warrior blindness to the facts is makes a mighty debunking crusade and might be more important than a knight sword!

As it has been shown, many of those who reported they heard explosions later found the sounds were attributed to something other than bomb explosions and since no evidence of explosives were found, that is aother indication that they did not hear any explosions that can be attributed to bombs or demolition explosives. As mentioned earlier, thermite is not a good substitute for the demolition process.

Edited April 23, 2012 by skyeagle409

[skyeagle409]

Jon Cole didn't require anywhere near that amount.

It has been used by a demolition company long ago on a high rise steel structure....

http://books.google....epage&q&f=false

Steel box beams was not used in that experement, and there is a a big difference between I-beams and box beams. You will have noticed that the material had to be CLAMPED in place in order for it to work, but in the case of the WTC buildings, the impacts were so violent that they knocked off the fire protection and any explosives attached to the beams would have been dislodge and made ineffective if they were not detonated first

As the facts and evidence has it, there was no evidence that a thermite cutting device was used nor pre-weakening fo the structures.found. In other words, you are right back at square one.

What 175 pounds of packed thermite could NOT do to a small steel BOX BEAM, which is NOT an I-BEAM.

What 1000 pounds of thermtie could NOT do to a vehicle.

Edited April 23, 2012 by skyeagle409