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What's Taking E.T. So Long to Find Us?


Still Waters

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Theory: Maybe we are clones of/ were created by aliens.

Which could mean that the aliens are already here, but we can't see them as they look exactly like us...well, we look like them.

Edited by failturner25
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The Drake Equation, while mathematically sound is really quite useless. I say this because it uses guesses for the various constants in the equation. One person's guesses are just as good/probable as anyone else's guesses. One can arrive at an "answer" of only one or one can arrive at an answer in the tens of thousands. The equation is really just structured guessing. The only viable way to prove the existence of alien life is to attempt to find it, becasue that's what it's going to take.

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That idea was discounted by new research last year. It showed the Earth would still have a relatively stable tilt even without the Moon.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228384.600-aliens-dont-need-a-moon-like-ours.html

Good to know, since the Moon is leaving us! LOL

Thanks.

It still doesn't mean that a planet, just because it's in the Goldilocks zone, would necessarily be a good place for intelligent life to arise, even if it was Earthlike.

As your link states, every system will be different. Gravitaional conditions with respect to other bodies in the system have to be taken into consideration.

Harte

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But the best thing overall is that it really does not matter,We are what we are,and we will do to our grand little planet what we do. Maybe we will survive ourselfs or not. In the Big sceme of things time and distance and what nots we are what we are just a little blue dot in the vastness of the Big Universe.

So what you gonna do when they come for you ?

Life is really short lets make the best of it here.

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Well, as long as they Donteatus, we'll be okay.

Harte

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If they should of found us by now why would they want to enteract or communicate with humans that respond with violence to things they dont understand or can not comprehend, i know i wouldnt it only makes sense that they keep their distance. from earlier observations they made from studying human life what if they only know us to be brute and savage and that all of humanity is the same.

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If they should of [sic] found us by now why would they want to enteract [sic] or communicate with humans that respond with violence to things they dont understand or can not comprehend,

So aliens can't figure out what violence is? What a bunch of idiots!

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I didn't read any comment and only the description and I and everyone here already knows the answer...

The government only lets us know what it wants us to know, they proved it themselves giving us disinformation; but because they manipulated the average intelligence to exclude this information the are blatently confirming. We found aliens, it's mathematically impossible that we have not been contacted before. But through manipulation they are telling us (reverse psychology anyone) "We have not found aliens; because it is mathematically predicted that we should have had a response by now."

It's so in our faces that the average person is fooled by the day to day occurance of it...

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I didn't read any comment and only the description and I and everyone here already knows the answer...

The government only lets us know what it wants us to know, they proved it themselves giving us disinformation; but because they manipulated the average intelligence to exclude this information the are blatently confirming. We found aliens, it's mathematically impossible that we have not been contacted before. But through manipulation they are telling us (reverse psychology anyone) "We have not found aliens; because it is mathematically predicted that we should have had a response by now."

It's so in our faces that the average person is fooled by the day to day occurance of it...

Are you saying because thew government is telling us that we should have contacted Aliens by now, that we have contacted aliens?

Gracious me.

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Why are there only two options? We're either alone or they're leaving us alone? Why can't a third possibility be that they aren't as advanced as we believe them to be? We automatically assume that any other beings in the universe are far more advanced than we are, but we have no proof of that. A fourth possibility could be that they just don't care whether or not they are alone in the universe.

Let's say they do exist, and they do know about us, and are avoiding us. The most simplistic reason as to why they would do such a thing... Who wouldn't? If you were from another planet/dimension given what we see happening, and how people as a whole would react, would you make yourself known to us? I wouldn't, just for the sole purpose of survival.

Take a look at most of the alien/ufo movies of the 50s and 60s. Granted, the aliens represented communism (that's for a different thread), but the way that people reacted in those movies... with fear and hostility, trying to destroy the ufo/aliens as opposed to trying anything else. That is NOT a reach.

From Tommy Lee Jones (Men in Black), it's actually quite try and very fitting.... "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet"

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We found aliens, it's mathematically impossible that we have not been contacted before.

People who use the above language are exposing their utter ignorance of mathematics.

Harte

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I didn't read any comment and only the description and I and everyone here already knows the answer...

The government only lets us know what it wants us to know, they proved it themselves giving us disinformation; but because they manipulated the average intelligence to exclude this information the are blatently confirming.

What blink.gif

We found aliens, it's mathematically impossible that we have not been contacted before.

Please do elaborate on the math substantiating that statement. Since you apparently know this, you should have no problem explaining it to a simpleton like me then.

But through manipulation they are telling us (reverse psychology anyone) "We have not found aliens; because it is mathematically predicted that we should have had a response by now."

Again, please do elaborate.

It's so in our faces that the average person is fooled by the day to day occurance of it...

How is it in our faces and what is this it?

Frankly, as Mr. Harte also stated, the only exposure here is utter ignorance from the poster. Good grief.

Cheers,

Badeskov

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Well its all to each and ever ones ideas of whats intelligent right ?

too much exposure to ignorance may lead one to the massive indulgence of over excitement of the grey matter,this in its self can lead to the over consumption of fast foods and then onto

the demise of C-reted movies and cheap Sci-Fi works of literature. And Geeze prohib ! THe purchase of said Tin Foil Hats for protection from Dangerous Aliens !

If I were E.T. Theres no way in H*** I would land here on Earth. They know they would get shot at,chopped up,Treated like Zoo creatures. And worst of all

Mostlikely Begged to the Ends of time to Be our Salvation ! And then we would turn them into our new God`s !

Sad but True.

This is why we need to hurry up and learn how to Star travel then we can do it to others First !

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What blink.gif

Please do elaborate on the math substantiating that statement. Since you apparently know this, you should have no problem explaining it to a simpleton like me then.

Oviously you are trolling... or are incapable of reading the VERY FIRST POST OF THE THREAD!!!!

That or you have made up a whole series of "conclusions" in your own mind... maybe you are right now in a state of disbelief and you are disoriented unable to recall the VERY FIRST LINE OF THE VERY FIRST POST. Now I quote "Mathematically speaking, ET would have found us by now -- if he exists -- so we’re being consciously avoided for some reason, a new study concludes."

When did I ever say, "I have done all the calculations in my high tech super laboratory of radio telescopes and have come to the mathematical conclusion that aliens would have contacted us by now"

You have just utterly FAILED at whatever you were just trying to do... if you are trying berate me, all right... but don't insult your own intelligence...

Done and done

**Edit**

I'm making the text BOLD so that you can comprehend better...

Also, if I need to elaborate on the statement I posted then I would be waisting my time. If you do not already see it then it is pointless for me to point something out that is so obvious... like... THE SKY IS BLUE!

ALSO

Taking something I wrote out of context of the entire paragraph does not make your arguement valid or even "proper".

EXAMPLE

The human race has been shown to evolve from basic primates, we believe at one point in time we were just like the apes of today. We have 'ape' DNA in us so in essence we are apes.

YOUR ARGUEMENT

We have 'ape' DNA in us so in essence we are apes.

Are you saying that we are like apes and should be all hairy and walk on our hands?

Geeze

Edited by G3N0M3
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Oviously you are trolling... or are incapable of reading the VERY FIRST POST OF THE THREAD!!!!

No, he'd not trolling.. Badeskov's a Government Disinformation Agent, everyone knows that.

(Have you got that pay rise they were promising yet, Bad?)

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No, he'd not trolling.. Badeskov's a Government Disinformation Agent, everyone knows that.

(Have you got that pay rise they were promising yet, Bad?)

Man Im starting to be able to read all these post now !

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If your or other goverment in the world see that trought them could acive more money or power ;p they will reveal them no matter people say it or do....

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If your or other goverment in the world see that trought them could acive more money or power ;p they will reveal them no matter people say it or do....

Aliens won't contact the government. Have you ever tried to call a government agency?

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Oviously you are trolling... or are incapable of reading the VERY FIRST POST OF THE THREAD!!!!

You might do well to follow your own advice, but read more than just "THE VERY FIRST POST OF THE THREAD" and dive right in to READ THE ACTUAL ARTICLE ITSELF before proclaiming what is or is not "mathematically impossible."

From the article:

Mathematically speaking, ET would have found us by now -- if he exists -- so we’re being consciously avoided for some reason, a new study concludes.

“We’re either alone, or they’re out there and leave us alone,” mathematician Thomas Hair, with Florida Gulf Coast University in Fort Myers, told Discovery News.

Hair, who presented his research at the Mathematical Association of America in Boston earlier this month, based his approximation of what he considered to be extremely conservative estimates for how long it would take a society to muster up the resources and technological know-how to leave its home world and travel to another star. Even at the relatively sedate pace of 1 percent of light-speed, the aliens would arrive at their nearest neighbor star in about 500 years.

Light travels at about 186,000 miles per second.

Figure another 500 years to build new ships, set out again, and so on and so on, and the calculations show that civilizations starting out from the oldest stars in our galaxy would have had epochs of time to reach us by now. So where are they?

"They've either passed us by, or they stay around their home star systems and contemplate their navels," Hair said.

Note that they didn't even mention his greatest, and least fact-based assumption - that ET intelligent life would exist long enough to accomplish his "assumption" of galactic space travel, not to mention the completely unfounded assumption that any life-form would begin an almost endless set of individual 500-year missions.

Note also that the entire statement you take as unassailable fact is based on the unfounded premise that intelligent ET life forms would necessarily even care about such a mega-generational mission, or have the resources to conduct such a boondoggle.

Lastly, this isn't exactly some "new" study. The entire thing is nothing but a restatement of the Fermi Paradox, which dates to the early fifties.

In other words, ho freakin' hum.

Harte

PS. We are not apes. Both we and apes are Hominids, a classification given to one family (Hominidae) under the sub order Haplorhini which falls under the order of Primates.

H.

Edited by Harte
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One thing I've noticed for sure, there are a great deal of assumptions made about ET. People assume ET has the resources, ability, and desire to travel the galaxy. People assume that ET will have evolved in a pattern similar to humans and look like humans. People assume ET will have an interest in visiting Earth and contacting us. Seems like a great deal of assumptions if you ask me.

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Oviously you are trolling... or are incapable of reading the VERY FIRST POST OF THE THREAD!!!!

That or you have made up a whole series of "conclusions" in your own mind... maybe you are right now in a state of disbelief and you are disoriented unable to recall the VERY FIRST LINE OF THE VERY FIRST POST. Now I quote "Mathematically speaking, ET would have found us by now -- if he exists -- so we're being consciously avoided for some reason, a new study concludes."

Not at all trolling at all and I have no problem reading and understanding, so no need to bold what you are trying to state. I can only gather from this that you have not read very many of my posts - if any at all. In any case, I have certainly read the whole thread, including said first post, which is more than you obviously have done (or maybe you have, but certainly did not understand it). For instance, tying in what you quoted above that article specifically states:

"We're either alone, or they're out there and leave us alone," mathematician Thomas Hair, with Florida Gulf Coast University in Fort Myers, told Discovery News

Clearly Thomas Hair outlines what is essentially a binary solution set, either way we have not been contacted according to him. yet you make that into the following.

We found aliens, it's mathematically impossible that we have not been contacted before.

Now, that is ignorant either way you slice it or whatever you accuse me of doing.You clearly do not understand what the initial post actually states and make up your own conclusions. And if you had read the rest of the thread (inclusing various links), you would have noticed why said study is not a valid one for a number of reasons. Thus you must either know more than us and be ignorant of what is actually stated in that study and why it is critiqued. But you are certainly making your own completely unsubstantiated conclusions and inferences.

Followed up by some completely unsubstantiated accusations about a Government (I am assuming the US as that tend to the prevailing target for such ridiculousness):

But through manipulation they are telling us (reverse psychology anyone) "We have not found aliens; because it is mathematically predicted that we should have had a response by now."

Seriously, this is ignorant as well. You completely ignore, by choice I am guessing, that there are many entities on the globe looking for ET, mostly competing with each other. It is simply the top of arrogance assuming that:

1) One single Government would be the contact option for ET.

2) That one single Government could keep something like this secret.

It simply shows that you actually haven't even thought about how contact would be initiated. Do you think ET would simply pick up the phone or dial the White House switch board and ask for the President?

When did I ever say, "I have done all the calculations in my high tech super laboratory of radio telescopes and have come to the mathematical conclusion that aliens would have contacted us by now"

You didn't, but I am led to believe that you have gone through some studies and can thus link to something when you make definite statements like you do, statements that have nothing to do with the conclusions reached in the article linked in the OP. Yet, I am not surprised that when asked you point to that. Kinda pretty much emphasizes what the post I replied showed. You do not understand the topic at hand.

But there are solutions to that. You could actually study a bit on how we are looking for ET and what the criteria are for those searches as well as the technology employed. Furthermore, it would indeed have helped if you had read some of the posts in this thread pointing out the fallacies in the study by Thomas Hair.

You have just utterly FAILED at whatever you were just trying to do... if you are trying berate me, all right... but don't insult your own intelligence...

Done and done

No, frankly, you just put your own ignorance on display.

I'm making the text BOLD so that you can comprehend better...

Thank you for your unnecessary effort.

Also, if I need to elaborate on the statement I posted then I would be waisting my time. If you do not already see it then it is pointless for me to point something out that is so obvious... like... THE SKY IS BLUE!

Well, given the logic you have put on display here the sky is anything but blue.

Taking something I wrote out of context of the entire paragraph does not make your arguement valid or even "proper".

I did not take anything out of context. You made a couple of very definite statements without any context. And they were completely misconstruing the OP, which you were hinging on. You got called out and utter failed.

The human race has been shown to evolve from basic primates, we believe at one point in time we were just like the apes of today. We have 'ape' DNA in us so in essence we are apes.

Now you are making up context, after your initial post. Which, incidentally, is also a complete fallacy (see Mr. Harte for the explanation for this).

YOUR ARGUEMENT

We have 'ape' DNA in us so in essence we are apes.

I made no such argument. Please do point me to a single post where I discussed such or used that as substantiation.

Cheers,

Badeskov

Edited to remove numerous "<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">". Why is this necessary on several occasions?

Edited by badeskov
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No, he'd not trolling.. Badeskov's a Government Disinformation Agent, everyone knows that.

Shhhh ph34r.gif

(Have you got that pay rise they were promising yet, Bad?)

Still waiting for the first pay check :(

Cheers,

Badeskov

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It came in my mailbox with mine Badeskov.

I send it to through the usual disinfo courier - mainstream science.

Harte

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