What's Taking E.T. So Long to Find Us?

[encouraged]

Interesting article here from Universe Today.

How on Earth can Universe Today acquire 68,000 readers when they require a screen width of 1370--lots of wasted white space along the left--to view their page without a horizontal scroll bar? Subscribers aren't likely IE users. Just think of their reading audience if they used the normal graphic standards.

[Hartmut]

In all the discussions about aliens etc. everyone seems to forget how Unimaginably Vast the Universe is. On top of that, the Universe is expanding, making thelight years distances even greater than they already are. Our own little (relative to others) galaxy is just an extremely minuscule dot in the vast Universe (and Earth is even 'minusculer'). Entertaining as it is, Star-Trek or Star-Gate is not reality, were species can hop around the Universe in a split second. No doubt, there must be millions of intelligent species 'out there', but they or us ever making contact is probably much, much more difficult that finding a single specific grain of sand on one of our many Earth beaches.

[Karlis]

Maybe Bob Brown, the recently-resigned leader of the Australian Greens Party, knows the answer.

"Fellow Earthians,

Never before has the Universe unfolded such a flower as our collective human intelligence, so far as we know.

Nor has such a one-and-only brilliance in the Universe stood at the brink of extinction, so far as we know.

We people of the Earth exist because our potential was there in the Big Bang, 13.7 billion years ago, as the Universe exploded into being.

So far, it seems like we are the lone thinkers in this vast, expanding Universe. However, recent astronomy tells us that there are trillions of other planets circling Sunlike stars in the immensity of the Universe, millions of them friendly to life. So why has no one from elsewhere in the Cosmos contacted us?

Surely some people-like animals have evolved elsewhere. Surely we are not, in this crowded reality of countless other similar planets, the only thinking beings to have turned up. Most unlikely! So why isn't life out there contacting us? Why aren't the intergalactic phones ringing?

Here is one sobering possibility for our isolation: maybe life has often evolved to intelligence on other planets with biospheres and every time that intelligence, when it became able to alter its environment, did so with catastrophic consequences. Maybe we have had many predecessors in the Cosmos but all have brought about their own downfall.

That's why they are not communicating with Earth. They have extincted themselves.

Let us here in Hobart, and around the world, highly resolve that through global democracy we shall save the Earth from perishing…

So let us resolve that there should be established for the prevalence and happiness of humankind a representative assembly, a global parliament, for the people of the Earth, based on the principle of one person one vote one value; and to enable this outcome that it should be a bicameral parliament with its house of review, having equal representation elected from every nation." ... (snip) ...

The full text of Bob's speech is >here:

[Space Commander Travis]

This is who we need as a leader! Never mind Ron Paul!

[ZaraKitty]

We expect them to find us, but if we challenge ourselves to build an interstellar space craft we'd realize it's a monumental task. Maybe they already know we exist, but can't reach us, maybe they're not super intelligent, what if they're animals? Why do they need to be intelligent? Isn't simply life amazing enough?

[+Hammerclaw]

Why is it taking so long to find us? From their point of view, there's nothing to find. They are still waiting for signs of Intelligent life, and we don't qualify. As a "technological" life-form, we have been on the scene for an incredibly short time--a few thousand years ago, we were still chipping flint. What's out there will be thousands, maybe millions of years in advance of us. The electronic noise and bustle of our nascent civilisation will be no more to them than what the sounds of crickets chirping in the dark are to us, and no one tries to talk to crickets. So, we exist in blissful anonymity, and should hope to keep it so. We really don't want to be found, not at this stage of our development. We have nothing to offer except this stable platform on which we propagate our species, and they might desire to do the same. Therefore, if they come, and cross the vast distances between the stars,they will most likely be coming to stay. They may not take notice of us, at all, when they arrive, or worse, they will, and find us a nuisance. What would humans do if they landed on an island they wished to occupy, and it was over-run by rats? The Aliens may not like a lot of vermin running around, either.

[DONTEATUS]

Why is it taking so long to find us? From their point of view, there's nothing to find. They are still waiting for signs of Intelligent life, and we don't qualify. As a "technological" life-form, we have been on the scene for an incredibly short time--a few thousand years ago, we were still chipping flint. What's out there will be thousands, maybe millions of years in advance of us. The electronic noise and bustle of our nascent civilisation will be no more to them than what the sounds of crickets chirping in the dark are to us, and no one tries to talk to crickets. So, we exist in blissful anonymity, and should hope to keep it so. We really don't want to be found, not at this stage of our development. We have nothing to offer except this stable platform on which we propagate our species, and they might desire to do the same. Therefore, if they come, and cross the vast distances between the stars,they will most likely be coming to stay. They may not take notice of us, at all, when they arrive, or worse, they will, and find us a nuisance. What would humans do if they landed on an island they wished to occupy, and it was over-run by rats? The Aliens may not like a lot of vermin running around, either.

Thats it ! THey dont need any more step-children !

[Sensible Logic]

What's taking so long?

They're waiting for the upgrade of the intergalactic highway. There just aren't enough rest stops and it's difficult at best to hold it for more than a light year.

[badeskov]

What's taking so long?

They're waiting for the upgrade of the intergalactic highway. There just aren't enough rest stops and it's difficult at best to hold it for more than a light year.

The bridge is still up.

Cheers,

Badeskov

[Order66]

We are like Europa in the "2010". Humans were advised that "all these worlds are yours except Europa. Attempt no landings there.” Who issues this mandate? It could perhaps be some type of intergalactic community that has decreed that Earth is not ready to join the international community because to them we are one planet that it is in a constant state of internal strife because of civil war among different factions. They might believe that rather than benefit us, their contact with us would only foster more instability. That's not to say hwoever that all members of that intergalactic community follow the rules, just like countries on our planet don't always follow their treaties and international laws. Aliens might perhaps do reconassiance, maybe even contact leaders on our planet and make shady deals, but disavow these actions to the rest of the space community.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Vein Capital

[ReaperS_ParadoX]

Has it occured to anybody that we might NOT want to find them or vice versa them find us, I mean they could be nothing like us in the looks department ( which I think is very cocky of people to think ) But they could have no intentions of preserving our societies. They even could have absolutely no concept of what death is, and a creature that cant be killed wouldnt think killing was right or wrong because they would simply have no concept of it..MY 2 cents

[ranrod]

I apologize for not reading every page to this point, but there are several factors I didn't see addressed in the pages I did read. Firstly bear in mind that no scientist thinks our understanding of the universe is perfect. Opinions vary but our current understanding of the universe is between 10-90% wrong, incomplete, or non-existent. According to GR it would take us 40 years to get to our closest neighbor at 0.1c (plus change due to time dilation), but that's according to GR - not to say that GR is perfect or that there is no other way.

About the aliens, take our closest solar system neighbor for instance (Proxima Centauri). Its star collapsed and became a red dwarf. Bear in mind our solar system is younger than theirs and if a civilization did proliferated there, they could've been around for billions of years before the collapse of their star. When the star collapsed and became a red-dwarf, it surely wiped out any life in that solar system. If there was advanced life there, it's only logical that they would go looking for a new home in their youngest closest neighbor with an inhabitable planet (us?). Being advanced, what assumptions can we make about their numbers? If they were in the billions, we would surely notice them here. Is the fact we don't see them proof they didn't contain such life? No. Off the top of my head, I can think of many counter-conclusions (there was a better suiting planet somewhere else, they did come in small numbers and are here, they came in higher numbers and interbred with us, they couldn't escape their star collapse and died out, found a way to survive the star collapse and are still there, live in space cities, etc).

Beyond an alien life escaping the death of their planet, there could be the equivalent of biologists that come from outer space to study and document this planet. They could feel no need to let us know of their existence, the same way our biologists don't try to establish communications with a beaver colony (and the beavers wouldn't even understand us hard as we try). I can think of a ton of reasons off the top of my head as to why they wouldn't feel the need to communicate with us.

I don't know if we've tried to communicate with Alpha Centauri A. It has two stars similar to our sun, and it's our second-closest neighbor. I imagine it would be the first place I'd aim our radio-telescopes to. It's possible that when Proxima Centauri collapsed it wiped out life the Alpha Centauri AB, due to their proximity.

Also, the current estimate of planets in a habitable zone of their star in our galaxy is 10 billion. That's a lot of possibilities for life!

[Order66]

They even could have absolutely no concept of what death is, and a creature that cant be killed wouldnt think killing was right or wrong because they would simply have no concept of it..MY 2 cents

I would try to explain it to them:

"We ... are ... humans, we ... live,if you ... destroy us, we will .. cease to exist!"

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

Why are there only two options? We're either alone or they're leaving us alone? Why can't a third possibility be that they aren't as advanced as we believe them to be? We automatically assume that any other beings in the universe are far more advanced than we are, but we have no proof of that. A fourth possibility could be that they just don't care whether or not they are alone in the universe.

Your - "Truth doesn't matter; only a confirmation of our beliefs matter." -- is the best I've seen so far!

NICE!

that's what drives a lot of folks in here whether they realize it or not. truth be damned! I have a belief and I don't want the facts getting in the way!

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

If we look at the example of humanity, there are already a range of things looming in the future which I believe threaten our survival on this planet...take Nanotechnology for an example, the destructive potential of that if it went wrong is immense. Is there a case for saying that civilizations reach a certain level of technological advancement and then inevitably will invent something which causes their downfall.

Meaning few if any civilizations ever get to the level of advancement necessary to make interstellar travel routine.

and you know this ... because??

How large was your sample size of extra terrestial civilizations?

yikes

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

Very arrogant article... Who says they want to find us or have found us, but don't want anything to do with us?

yup.

we are in a 4.5 billion year old solar system amongst other solar systems in our Milky Way Galaxy that are much muh older.

If this solar system was visited two billion years ago, how would this author of the article know this? he couldn't.

Yet he speaks like he *knows* we have as yet, not been visited yet.

I agree. arrogant.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Earl.Of.Trumps

[ranrod]

I don't know if we've tried to communicate with Alpha Centauri A. It has two stars similar to our sun, and it's our second-closest neighbor. I imagine it would be the first place I'd aim our radio-telescopes to. It's possible that when Proxima Centauri collapsed it wiped out life the Alpha Centauri AB, due to their proximity.

Just saw the discussion where SETI allegedly announced they are now aiming their efforts towards the Alpha Centauri system following the discovery of an Earth-sized planet there:http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=236018.

Given their proximity, we could send messages and get responses every 8 years. That's not too bad!

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

One thing I've noticed for sure, there are a great deal of assumptions made about ET. People assume ET has the resources, ability, and desire to travel the galaxy. People assume that ET will have evolved in a pattern similar to humans and look like humans. People assume ET will have an interest in visiting Earth and contacting us. Seems like a great deal of assumptions if you ask me.

exactly.

ppl try to liken ET's and their own desires to themselves because that is all people know.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

Er...so why come here at all then.

why are we so desperately trying to get to that useless rock in space named Mars?

Edited October 22, 2012 by Earl.Of.Trumps

[ReaperS_ParadoX]

They could already have knowledge about us I mean if you take Wernher von Braun for instance he said that they had outside help when building there rockets and weapons, But I mean I doubt any of you would believe that. Although I cant see any reason he would have to lie about something like that.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

I should think it would be next to impossible for people from thousands of years ago to try and figure out what technologiers would exist on this planet in just a few thousand years.

Likewise, for us to try and figure out what the future holds - inre, technology, might also be equally fruitless. who has the imagination to try and figure out new technologies like that?

with that said, the technological discoveries we have made in the last 100 years alone is astounding.

Worm holes, for example exist in theory, and in the world of physics, "if something is possible, it is *mandatory*" - so physicists believe.

we also have had rapid advances in DNA research, cloning, and the making of other biological creations.

we have made incredible advances in nano-technology, working now on the molecule level routinely.

Could we in the next 300 years, say, be able to make molecular-sized space traveling vehicles, tiny sized biological beings to operate the observation vehicles,

and cheaply manufacture BILLIONS of them to go out through wormholes and study every planet in the galaxy?

It's not really that far fetched, is it? it sounds weired but I bet the idea of a pilot flying many people in an aircraft going 2,000 thousand mph sounded pretty ridiculous to people 300 years ago, too. I'm sure they laughed at such a notion.

but if you do see all this as being possible for us to do in 300 years, can you possibly imagine what we could do in a billion years or more?

the point is, there quite likely are many ET civilizations that do have the billion year jump start over us and they very likely may have already hatched such a plot to cheaply explore the galaxy and probably, beyond,,, a long long time ago.

I bet they've been here. they could be here now and we've never even know.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

They could already have knowledge about us I mean if you take Wernher von Braun for instance he said that they had outside help when building there rockets and weapons, But I mean I doubt any of you would believe that. Although I cant see any reason he would have to lie about something like that.

Von Braun did say that, yes. and he was specifically referring to ET's.

There was another German scientist who made the same claim but his name I can't recall right now.

[ReaperS_ParadoX]

Von Braun did say that, yes. and he was specifically referring to ET's.

There was another German scientist who made the same claim but his name I can't recall right now.

Yeah so theres that and I cant see any reason why he would lie about that

[Harlequin Dreamer]

Its not that he's taking so long its he has met us laughed then p o q'ed.

[ReaperS_ParadoX]

Its not that he's taking so long its he has met us laughed then p o q'ed.

p o q'ed that suppose to mean puked??