Would you take an ID marker?

[Fergus]

For those who say they don't see how this could ever happen, imagine 5 or 6 simultaneous attacks carried out in major countries around the world resulting in over 100,000 dead, or worse yet, over a million. I can see a system put in place almost immediately after an event like that quite easily with them saying, "The war has escalated. We have to take drastic measures to make sure this doesn't happen again. Either you get this or you will be labeled a terrorist, there is no reason to fear this if you have nothing to hide." Of course it would be presented as temporary, like the income tax, but would stick around after everyone got used to it.

Most people would fall right into line to hurry up and "show their patriotism".

On whether or not I would take it, it would entirely depend on what brought it about and how it was presented. In the above scenario, I would probably have to decline.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Fergus

[+and-then]

Why would God refuse to save someone simply because they wished to eat while alive?

The whole premise about "the mark" seems absurd to me, that placing a person in a situation where they have no choice means they forsake what they believe? It casts God as an idiot, and a rather unfeeling one at that.

Although that could be said of other passages in the bible, also.

I'll count that as a no

[Leonardo]

I'll count that as a no

Absolutely. In the hypothetical situation where I believe God exists, I would also believe God to be intelligent, sympathetic, empathetic, rational, etc.

Much of what is written about the Judeo-Christian god in the scriptures leads one to conclude that god - as imagined/written by the authors - is none of those things.

[preacherman76]

My understanding is that, using established interpretations of biblical symbologies, the forehead represents the mind, and the hand represents ones deeds. Thus, the mark of the beast represents how we think and act. The bible goes on to describe how people's thoughts and actions will illustrate whether they are marked by the beast, or not.

Thus, for example, people wont be physically prevented from buying and seling by a mark, but their conscience and beliefs might prevent them from doing so, if that contravened gods laws or their faith.

Many people thus fear a "world order" which will establish laws that people of faith CANNOT obey, without being marked by the beast. But it is the obedience to those laws which marks them, not the other way around.

You could be right. Personaly, in my opinion, the mark will be real. But there will be no mistake of what it means to take it. Biblicaly one would also have to swear aligence(sp?) to the AC. Also the formation of a one world economic system, and one world government will be clear signs. If we only had revelations, Im not sure what Id think. But going back to the book of Daniel, to me its clear that these are, and can only be, the times spoken of in revelations.

[preacherman76]

Absolutely. In the hypothetical situation where I believe God exists, I would also believe God to be intelligent, sympathetic, empathetic, rational, etc.

Much of what is written about the Judeo-Christian god in the scriptures leads one to conclude that god - as imagined/written by the authors - is none of those things.

Ok. What do you think such a God might expect from you?

[Leonardo]

Ok. What do you think such a God might expect from you?

To not throw my life away on a whim. To be human.

If hypothesising that God went to all the trouble to create life, then it stands to reason life has to mean something, yes? Rather than how some religious people appear to interpret life - as merely a stepping-stone, and not particularly important, to a believed-in afterlife.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Leonardo

[+and-then]

Absolutely. In the hypothetical situation where I believe God exists, I would also believe God to be intelligent, sympathetic, empathetic, rational, etc.

Much of what is written about the Judeo-Christian god in the scriptures leads one to conclude that god - as imagined/written by the authors - is none of those things.

And the fact that you come to that conclusion and cannot believe makes you just as human as those like me who cannot disbelieve. My problem is not with those who honestly just can't help relying only on science and the tangible proof it offers. It's with those who cannot accept that there are others who don't require that proof. Life's just too short to be at enmity with others over such things; yet whether it's arguing over who's god is greater or arguing over whether God exists at all, we as a species seemed consumed with thinking about God.

[+and-then]

You could be right. Personaly, in my opinion, the mark will be real. But there will be no mistake of what it means to take it. Biblicaly one would also have to swear aligence(sp?) to the AC. Also the formation of a one world economic system, and one world government will be clear signs. If we only had revelations, Im not sure what Id think. But going back to the book of Daniel, to me its clear that these are, and can only be, the times spoken of in revelations.

This has been my belief as well. Since accepting the mark has the ultimate negative consequence for a soul, I believe that a clear choice of worship must be made. The mark itself will be the worship and not so much the tatoo, stamp, number, chip etc. Those devices will become acceptable beforehand as a means to control populations. It's already beginning. The impression I receive from reading scripture is that the AC will not be hated or dreaded initially. In the beginning people will be in love with the guy and his rhetoric.

People are gullible to say the least. Look at how many will vote for BHO even a second time

[Leonardo]

[/b]

And the fact that you come to that conclusion and cannot believe makes you just as human as those like me who cannot disbelieve. My problem is not with those who honestly just can't help relying only on science and the tangible proof it offers. It's with those who cannot accept that there are others who don't require that proof. Life's just too short to be at enmity with others over such things; yet whether it's arguing over who's god is greater or arguing over whether God exists at all, we as a species seemed consumed with thinking about God.

I am not debating whether the god in question exists, this is not the forum to do that. For the purpose of this thread - and the questions you pose in it - I am assuming that god does exist, but that what is written in scripture does not necessarily reflect the attributes of that god, it thoughts, or any 'plan' for the cosmos it might have.

[Mr Walker]

Absolutely. In the hypothetical situation where I believe God exists, I would also believe God to be intelligent, sympathetic, empathetic, rational, etc.

Much of what is written about the Judeo-Christian god in the scriptures leads one to conclude that god - as imagined/written by the authors - is none of those things.

I empathise with this post That is how I find god.

Whether I am a theist or an atheist, certain human values are immutable. Those you mention rate highly among them. Another is to tell the truth, and act the truth as best i see it,

Ie to be honest and do what is right. Thus reluctantly, as either an atheist or a theist, I would die before i would do something that harmed myself or others. Preferably i would die making a difference and trying to stop other people suffering the same fate, but i could not live a life of hypocrisy or enslavement.

Of course the differnce in perspective between one without any belief in the christian form of god, and one with such a belief, is that the first may die bravely and well serving a purpose, but without hope of future existence. The other may die bravely and well serving a purose but with a belief that they will be reborn into eternal life.

The essential difference between a christian and an atheist, in this area, is that the theist may have difernt perspectives and priorities about how important our life on this earth is, compared with eternal life with god. That is logical and rational as part of a belief structure. But for one outside the belief structure, it is not.

[preacherman76]

.

If hypothesising that God went to all the trouble to create life, then it stands to reason life has to mean something, yes? Rather than how some religious people appear to interpret life - as merely a stepping-stone, and not particularly important, to a believed-in afterlife.

I totaly agree. It does stand to reason that life has meaning. I also agree that this life isnt just a stepping stone. Some religious folks think that everything depends on it.

[MysteryX]

I have a hard time seeing a system like that for single-party transactions. In terms of necessity, I mean.

A chip or similar would be extremely useful, and I would definitely get one, in situations where intellectual security and multi-party transactions are used, such as in credit cards, insurance, or medical expenses. It would be useful for simpler things, like grocery shopping, but hardly essential, in terms of security and exchange.

Essentally, I can see a chip system being used for major purchases, and as an added value, to be able to use it for minor purchases. I can't see anyone creating a chip solely for minor purchases, as would need to be done to claim that, without it, you would starve. It just isn't a complex enough market.

Well from the point of view of Bible Prophecy if a person with worldwide authority over all nations were to rise and then he demands that you take a buying and selling mark to prove your alliegence to him, then the buying and selling mark will have extreme life and death choices connected to it. It says in the Bible most of the population will take the mark with the wrath of God that follows because of it.

The key is knowing all the prophecies related to 666. People who have Pentagrams tattoed or 666 tattoed on their body does not mean anything to God. However if a man rises who says he is some type of Christ and has supernatural power yet denies Jesus Christ and every other religion on earth and then demands you take a buying and selling mark, then you will know the Antichrist of the Book of Revelation has arrived.

Here are two links for the serious that want to learn all the prophecies about the Antichrist of the Bible.

The first link has lots of resources but the main one is the entire free e-book on the Antichrist by Arthur Pink. All 16 chapters, just click and read no log-ins. It is one of the best and one of the first modern day end time prophecy books ever written. I think Arthur Pink passed away before Hal Lindsey was born so this should give you a perspective of when this book was written. It was a long time ago but it remains one of the best ever written on this subject. It was written long before Christians groups and organizations were trying to make money with book sales.

The Antichrist E - book - Click Here

This other blog linked below has some additional quality information

http://propheticseasons.wordpress.com/

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Edited April 7, 2012 by MysteryX