Britain's Horrendously Murderous Role In The

[keithisco]

name='keithisco' timestamp='1330453999' post='4217905']

They're sure enough to know they don't have to go to court.

I am sorry, but that argument is a "croc" and makes no sense.

The UK has always accepted International Law, and if they think it would find in their favour then that is the first route they would have taken.

They are not sure of their claim, it is probably no stronger than Argentinas, so they dare not take that route in case of defeat.

Seriously, blustering aside, what would be the change to the Falklanders life if there was a different flag flying over Town Hall? They would all still become millionaires from the mineral extraction - and then how many would remain on the Islands?? Do you really think the majority would stay to raise Sheep in the bleak conditions that exist there?

[Space Commander Travis]

3 Falkland Islanders Killed by British "Friendly Fire", not by the Argentine forces.3 too many? I agree wholeheartedly.

@747400: Post galtieri the Argentine Republic IS a democracy. In their constitution they declare that the people of Las Malvinas will be respected in accordance with their way of life.

No problem there I see.

If UK are so sure of their claim, then go to the International Courts - UK has always accepted their Judgments in every other case... Of course, they know that their claims are not solid enough to ensure a "victory", and so resort to Jingoistic Sabre - Rattling to garner a few additional votes at home from those too obsessed with "nuking" a sovereign nation over any sense of humanity or proportionality.

best thing: encourage the Falklanders to declare a Unilateral Declaration of Independence, but then they would lose all of the huge amounts of money going to the Islands from Military occupation defense allocations by the UK.

Now wait, i know that your loyalty to Spain obviously means that you must support its former colonies, but really, military occupation? the military presence is there against the islander's wishes and is in fact there with the purpose of oppressing them? And regarding the smooth assurance that Argentina IS a Democracy, it doesn't exactly have a long tradition of being one, does it, or of having stable and peaceful government?

[Space Commander Travis]

Seriously, blustering aside, what would be the change to the Falklanders life if there was a different flag flying over Town Hall? They would all still become millionaires from the mineral extraction - and then how many would remain on the Islands?? Do you really think the majority would stay to raise Sheep in the bleak conditions that exist there?

The chance that the Democratic Republic that they would then find themselves living under might turn out to be not that democratic actually, on past form, perhaps?

[hetrodoxly]

I am sorry, but that argument is a "croc" and makes no sense.

The UK has always accepted International Law, and if they think it would find in their favour then that is the first route they would have taken.

They are not sure of their claim, it is probably no stronger than Argentinas, so they dare not take that route in case of defeat.

Seriously, blustering aside, what would be the change to the Falklanders life if there was a different flag flying over Town Hall? They would all still become millionaires from the mineral extraction - and then how many would remain on the Islands?? Do you really think the majority would stay to raise Sheep in the bleak conditions that exist there?

It's the best argument, why would you go to court over something you already own? if a guy said he wants your house because his great grandfather put a tent in the field where your garden now stands would you go to court or tell him to pi55 off?

[Mr Right Wing]

Now wait, i know that your loyalty to Spain obviously means that you must support its former colonies, but really, military occupation? the military presence is there against the islander's wishes and is in fact there with the purpose of oppressing them? And regarding the smooth assurance that Argentina IS a Democracy, it doesn't exactly have a long tradition of being one, does it, or of having stable and peaceful government?

In my opinion Argentina is behaving like a nazi country.

Democracy is not about demanding territory from other nations. My country has seen off plenty of Hitlers in its time and it wont hesitate to see off another.

[keithisco]

It's the best argument, why would you go to court over something you already own? if a guy said he wants your house because his great grandfather put a tent in the field where your garden now stands would you go to court or tell him to pi55 off?

That is a poor allegory... currently only 88 nations recognise UK Sovereignty over the Islands, if proved in the International Court then all nations are required to accept UK Sovereignty. Personal rights and Sovereign Rights are two completely different, non - interchangeable facets of Law

[Mr Right Wing]

It's the best argument, why would you go to court over something you already own? if a guy said he wants your house because his great grandfather put a tent in the field where your garden now stands would you go to court or tell him to pi55 off?

Spot on lol

[keithisco]

Now wait, i know that your loyalty to Spain obviously means that you must support its former colonies, but really, military occupation? the military presence is there against the islander's wishes and is in fact there with the purpose of oppressing them? And regarding the smooth assurance that Argentina IS a Democracy, it doesn't exactly have a long tradition of being one, does it, or of having stable and peaceful government?

No, it absolutely does not mean that.!!

I support the Rule of Law, nothing more, nothing less. If Argentina fails in the Legal Action then sobeit - the International Court takes precedence and my arguments fall.

[Mr Right Wing]

No, it absolutely does not mean that.!!

I support the Rule of Law, nothing more, nothing less. If Argentina fails in the Legal Action then sobeit - the International Court takes precedence and my arguments fall.

The Falklands isnt like Hong Kong.

Hong Kong belonged to the Chinese so we gave it back when the lease ended (see we respect others and arent pirates). The Falklands is different because (as has been pointed out) they have never been owned by Argentina.

The owners have been Britain, France and Spain.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Mr Right Wing

[Space Commander Travis]

Incidenatlly, i wonder if we're getting slightly sidetracked? The Falklands thread is over here.

[keithisco]

The Falklands isnt like Hong Kong.

Hong Kong belonged to the Chinese so we gave it back when the lease ended (see we respect others and arent pirates). The Falklands is different because (as has been pointed out) they have never been owned by Argentina.

The owners have been Britain, France and Spain.

Please! Do at least a minimum of research..

Hong Kong Island (along with Kowloom) was ceded to British Sovereignty in Perpetuity, the Chinese totally accepted that. They never insisted on Hong Kong being given back.

The New Territories (nothing more) were simple leased to UK and that lease came to an end. The UK decided to give Hong Kong Island back to China along with the New territories.because Hong Kong was not considered to be viable by itself. It never came to a vote of the Hong Kong people, it was decided by the UK Govt.No self - determination was raised, no "the people must be consulted", the people were not happy but the UK said "so what".

Do you now see the difference in the Political game?

The Govt does whatever it thinks will gain longer term approbation at home. They dont really give a "Rats A*se" about the Falklands, mineral exploitation is sufficient to maintain their interest.

Is China a leading light in in Democratic principles compared to Argentina??

[hetrodoxly]

name='keithisco' timestamp='1330458120' post='4217997']

That is a poor allegory

88% of people in my house said it's excellent.

...

currently only 88 nations recognise UK Sovereignty over the Islands, if proved

in the International Court then all nations are required to accept UK

Sovereignty. Personal rights and Sovereign Rights are two completely different,

non - interchangeable facets of Law

How many nations recognise Argentinian sovereignty?

[Essan]

Do you really think the majority would stay to raise Sheep in the bleak conditions that exist there?

Yes. Do you know people?

[keithisco]

Yes. Do you know people?

Yes, do you?

The young leave at the first opportuniy, to get away from the grind of daily life, probably the inbreeding as well (the gene pool must be very small),

Give them the same opportunity to decide as Hong Kong - none. Why should so much money , time, resource , and international bad - will be decided by so small a population. Bring them all back to the UK, give them some land to grow sheep (if that is their desire), give them a fishing boat, whatever, it will be worth it , and a lot more than was given to Hong Kong Residents who weren't even given passports with right of abode in the uk.

Edited February 28, 2012 by keithisco

[Space Commander Travis]

Yes, do you?

The young leave at the first opportuniy, to get away from the grind of daily life, probably the inbreeding as well (the gene pool must be very small),

Give them the same opportunity to decide as Hong Kong - none. Why should so much money , time, resource , and international bad - will be decided by so small a population. Bring them all back to the UK, give them some land to grow sheep (if that is their desire), give them a fishing boat, whatever, it will be worth it , and a lot more than was given to Hong Kong Residents who weren't even given passports with right of abode in the uk.

So now you're suggesting depopulating the islands and sending evryone to the Uk, just so that the Argentina can get their hands on it? But you do not have any axe to grind for Argentina, do you. You're completely neutral and impartial.

[itsnotoutthere]

So keithisco is your argument one of 'geography'? i.e. the Falklands belong to Argentina because they are closer?

[Mr Right Wing]

So now you're suggesting depopulating the islands and sending evryone to the Uk, just so that the Argentina can get their hands on it? But you do not have any axe to grind for Argentina, do you. You're completely neutral and impartial.

I think we might need to guard Gibraltar if this continues.

Some of the Spanairds seem to be on Argentinas side.

[keithisco]

So keithisco is your argument one of 'geography'? i.e. the Falklands belong to Argentina because they are closer?

No... As I Have stated , time and again, the International Court of Law should decide. The fact that the Islanders benefitted enormously (pre 1982) from a normalised relationship with Argentina is neither here nor there.

If either side are confident in their "claim" then that is the place to go. Why are you not getting this? It really is that simple. I dont even have to use Big words, or convoluted sentences.

It really is as simple as that - you do not need to see intent where none exists

[keithisco]

So now you're suggesting depopulating the islands and sending evryone to the Uk, just so that the Argentina can get their hands on it? But you do not have any axe to grind for Argentina, do you. You're completely neutral and impartial.

Finally, you understand that I do not have any axe to grind, or partiality!!!

It took you long enough to find that out..

[Space Commander Travis]

Finally, you understand that I do not have any axe to grind, or partiality!!!

It took you long enough to find that out..

Ah, so your support of Argentine and your talking about "Las islas Malvinas" was tongue in cheek then. I thought it must have been.

[keithisco]

Ah, so your support of Argentine and your talking about "Las islas Malvinas" was tongue in cheek then. I thought it must have been.

Just when i thought you got my stance on the debate you go and ruin it... (bolded part).

Hey guess what? - in Spain the United Kingdom is called.. Reino Unido - NOT Great Britain!! Las Islas Malvinas was the original name, so have no embarassment about referring to them in this way.

I really do not care for this discussion anymore - if no-one thinks the International Courts should be involved then sobeit... If sabre-rattling and jingoism is the best contra - argument then there is no debate left...sad

[Mr Right Wing]

Just when i thought you got my stance on the debate you go and ruin it... (bolded part).

Hey guess what? - in Spain the United Kingdom is called.. Reino Unido - NOT Great Britain!! Las Islas Malvinas was the original name, so have no embarassment about referring to them in this way.

I really do not care for this discussion anymore - if no-one thinks the International Courts should be involved then sobeit... If sabre-rattling and jingoism is the best contra - argument then there is no debate left...sad

Its the United Kingdon of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Our Empire consists of Canada, Austrailia, New Zealamd and lots of little Islands like the Falklands who all remain linked to each other through the Monarchy. We have aircraft carriers, type 42 destroyers, eurofighters, nukes and a large combined GDP.

What does Argentina have?

[hetrodoxly]

Just when i thought you got my stance on the debate you go and ruin it... (bolded part).

Hey guess what? - in Spain the United Kingdom is called.. Reino Unido - NOT Great Britain!! Las Islas Malvinas was the original name, so have no embarassment about referring to them in this way.

I really do not care for this discussion anymore - if no-one thinks the International Courts should be involved then sobeit... If sabre-rattling and jingoism is the best contra - argument then there is no debate left...sad

I'm sure you've explained to the Spanish people that the great in Great Britain refers to greater ie Scotland, Wales, Ireland and England as in greater Birmingham, Greater London etc they wouldn't want to make themselves look stupid would they? No sabre rattling from the Brits if Argentina mind their own business, if they bugger off and leave us alone they won't even here the clinking of a dinner knife .

[MichaelW]

Its the United Kingdon of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Our Empire Commonwealth consists of Canada, Austrailia, New Zealamd and lots of little Islands like the Falklands who all remain linked to each other through the Monarchy. We have aircraft carriers, type 42 destroyers, eurofighters, nukes and a large combined GDP.

What does Argentina have?

Fixed for accuracy.

[Space Commander Travis]

Just when i thought you got my stance on the debate you go and ruin it... (bolded part).

Hey guess what? - in Spain the United Kingdom is called.. Reino Unido - NOT Great Britain!! Las Islas Malvinas was the original name, so have no embarassment about referring to them in this way.

Among whom?

The Falkland Islands took their English name from "Falkland Sound", the channel between the two main islands, which was in turn named after Anthony Cary, 5th Viscount of Falkland, by Captain John Strong, who landed on the islands in 1690.[6] The Spanish name, Islas Malvinas,[7] is derived from the French name,[8] Îles Malouines, named by Louis Antoine de Bougainville in 1764 after the first known settlers, mariners and fishermen from the Breton port of Saint-Malo in France.[8]