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and then

Qur'an burning riots in Afghanistan

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and then

Objects are holy in Christianity. It's called 'The Holy Bible' by the way. The fact that it's made out of paper and binding and glue doesn't de-Holify it if that's what you were thinking.

You did claim that the Holy Spirit is holy. So again, where is the Holy Spirit at? How does the Holy Spirit manifest itself?

The Holy Spirit is manifest in a human's thoughts and actions toward others and toward God. The Spirit indwells a Christian upon conversion and will be a companion in that person's life for as long as He is allowed to be. Knowledge of Christ (the Word) is gained from the Holy Bible. And many Christians look upon the destruction of that word as an abomination. But the very nature of Christianity is forgiveness and it's the Holy Spirit within a Christian that allows them to forgive.

The issue here is the hate manifest toward the West using their symbol of their religion. And the point of the thread was that it is time to leave this brutal, backward place where pages of paper mean more than a human life.

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Cassea

The Holy Spirit is manifest in a human's thoughts and actions toward others and toward God. The Spirit indwells a Christian upon conversion and will be a companion in that person's life for as long as He is allowed to be. Knowledge of Christ (the Word) is gained from the Holy Bible. And many Christians look upon the destruction of that word as an abomination. But the very nature of Christianity is forgiveness and it's the Holy Spirit within a Christian that allows them to forgive.

The issue here is the hate manifest toward the West using their symbol of their religion. And the point of the thread was that it is time to leave this brutal, backward place where pages of paper mean more than a human life.

Wonderfully put and then. As usual. :tu:

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Raptor Witness

The Holy Spirit is manifest in a human's thoughts and actions toward others and toward God. The Spirit indwells a Christian upon conversion and will be a companion in that person's life for as long as He is allowed to be. Knowledge of Christ (the Word) is gained from the Holy Bible. And many Christians look upon the destruction of that word as an abomination. But the very nature of Christianity is forgiveness and it's the Holy Spirit within a Christian that allows them to forgive.

The issue here is the hate manifest toward the West using their symbol of their religion. And the point of the thread was that it is time to leave this brutal, backward place where pages of paper mean more than a human life.

Why would you assume that the Holy Spirit is a man?

If you haven't figured this out by now, then you've forgotten how primitive Judaism, and Christianity once were, and how Islam is today.

Women were considered too lowly to hold the highest office in Heaven, but the Holy Spirit is a reflection of the human family. For those who know her intimately, she is our Mother.

You are correct, she is your friend for life, and she will defend you ... in similar fashion.

Edited by Raptor Witness

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Uncle Sam

Everytime they start a riot, I burn an Quran. Why you ask? It is my ritual of removing an bad religion from this world that involves voilence and intolerance which is practice by muslims. I am atheist... I rather humanity ruled by reason instead of ignorance.

Edited by Uncle Sam

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Beckys_Mom

Actually if we're going to generalize, the Christians will kill people for just about any reason you can think of actually. Are you a "suspect"? Look out below! So why is it that religion is never a just pretense for killing, but government is?

No I disagree...Christians in general are not known in this day and age to send death threats and kill people over a faith.. .Not like they used to.. I am not saying this to sound biased, because I am not a Christian.. I am saying it because I know that What Christians used to be known for and what they do now in present times are worlds apart..it was the laws of man that stopped Christians in their tracks of killing ...In Western society that's how it is..

They do not have a patch on the extremist Muslims when it comes to extreme death threats and violence over a mere faith

..Sorry but that's how a lot of people will see it

Edited by Beckys_Mom

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Eldorado

Maybe they just don't actually like having foreign troops patrolling their streets. I know I wouldn't.

Just saying.

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Corp

If that were the case then why are they flipping out over a few burned books?

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Eldorado

If that were the case then why are they flipping out over a few burned books?

The tipping-point?

The burning of the books and indeed "religion" itself is just the excuse. The "justification", in their eyes at least. If "God" commands it, via a fat Mullah of course, it's ok to behave like a barbarian.

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Corp

Still would think is this is really about wanting NATO gone right now then that's what they'd be protesting. After all they've held protests on various issues before. Rather I think the link goes the other way. They're mad about the books, which in turn leads to 'get out foreigners' due to a disrespect of their culture.

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Eldorado

Hard to believe it's 2012 the way some folks live. "Honour" murders, stoning to death etc. Enough to make you weep.

I meant to say the burnt books were the catalyst for trouble in an already precarious relationship.

Edited by Eldorado

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hetrodoxly

Maybe they just don't actually like having foreign troops patrolling their streets. I know I wouldn't.

Just saying.

I listened to a afganistanie woman MP on the TV this week pleading for the troops not to leave?

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Eldorado

I listened to a afganistanie woman MP on the TV this week pleading for the troops not to leave?

Well, she's obviously not speaking for all of her people else there wouldn't be any trouble.

(Hope you don't think I'm defending these lunatics btw.)

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wittyusernamefailed

Fine. It is obvious that the majority of Afgahni's do not want us in their country, even the Pastun warlords that we helped take over have gotten what they wanted and are returning to their purely mercenary ways. So here is what we do, we leave a scorched earth; everything we as Nato have built, every school, every hospital, every road... we destroy it then we leave. If they wish to follow a form of Islam that is barbaric, then they can live as barbarians. And in the future when dealing with Muslims militarily in the future we only destroy. No nation building, no regards for civilian casualties, no attempt to improve their lives. If they choose to live in a middle ages mindset then there is no reason for our response to be any different. When they choose to cast off their inane Dark ages mentality, then the world will welcome them, but not till then.

Edited by wittyusernamefailed

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hetrodoxly

name='Eldorado' timestamp='1330546543' post='4219197']

Well, she's obviously not speaking for all of her people else there wouldn't be

any trouble.

I think she speaks for most, if NATO pulls out the foreign Islamists will take control again and the country will go back to the stone age once more and the female MP will be executed.

Hope you don't think I'm defending these lunatics btw

Not at all.

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ninjadude

No nation building, no regards for civilian casualties, no attempt to improve their lives. If they choose to live in a middle ages mindset then there is no reason for our response to be any different.

Of course not. That's not the purpose of the US military. If you think that's why we're there, I would disagree.

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Wyvernkeeper

Everytime they start a riot, I burn an Quran. Why you ask? It is my ritual of removing an bad religion from this world that involves voilence and intolerance which is practice by muslims. I am atheist... I rather humanity ruled by reason instead of ignorance.

Burning a Quran does not equal a humanity ruled by reason over ignorance...

Having said that, neither does the death of 30 people in riots over the burning of a book...

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pbarosso

there is no way of satisfying them. they are war-bred like the old german tribes in Caesars commentaries and tacitus' histories. if we just allow people to spread these types of religions (and dont try and tell me its not the religion bullcrap, its people yada yada BS) then we are doing a disservice to the world and region.

the only solution is to do one of two things that will not cost the lives of american in the present or future:

leave, which does not solve the problem of them hating us for either religious or political reasons and acting on them through direct/indirect terrorism. they would also become fodder for bigger islamic countries to control like Iran, which is another festering problem.

destroy them to the man. they respect power, and we better start projecting it or we are in serious trouble. I hate to say it but machiavelli needs to be employed here.

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therootsfan

You're never going to be able to convince theocracies to become more moderate and secular, and the birthrate in the Arab world is much higher than it is in First World countries. They're just going to breed and multiply. Since their stated goal is to kill all heretics which is every non-Muslim on the planet, I say nuke all the Islamic countries, from the Phillipines to Iran to Syria to Sudan to Egypt. Get them before they get us, and consider it man helping speed up the course of evolution by eliminating these primitive civilizations and mentally-defective sub-humans. There's nothing more dangerous than a backwards simple-minded idiot who's also a sociopath, and that description fits all Muslims.

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and then

there is no way of satisfying them. they are war-bred like the old german tribes in Caesars commentaries and tacitus' histories. if we just allow people to spread these types of religions (and dont try and tell me its not the religion bullcrap, its people yada yada BS) then we are doing a disservice to the world and region.

the only solution is to do one of two things that will not cost the lives of american in the present or future:

leave, which does not solve the problem of them hating us for either religious or political reasons and acting on them through direct/indirect terrorism. they would also become fodder for bigger islamic countries to control like Iran, which is another festering problem.

destroy them to the man. they respect power, and we better start projecting it or we are in serious trouble. I hate to say it but machiavelli needs to be employed here.

Not sure if you actually mean that but if you do then...damn...

I believe that the ultimate goal of Islam, as stated in the Qur'an and Hadiths, is the domination of all humanity under it's religio-political system. I believe that the war between the West and Islam could be the third and possibly last world war for mankind. This one isn't about money or power or even land so much as it's about one group of people trying to force another in what they should believe about God.

Your solution may actually be what happens eventually. But only after a great crowd of the rest of us are eliminated as well. The survivors will have to decide if it was worth it...

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wittyusernamefailed

I don't think that the "let just nuke all dem der rageheadz!!!" way of thinking is the best way to go about this. Such thinking only stoops us to the level of the ones who have embraced a form of Islam that is at it's farthest extreme. We have to remember that back when Christianity and the West were acting like them and showing the love and joy of Jesus, by burning people at the stake; islam was providing sanctuary to all those who would otherwise have died. And we also have millions of Muslim believers living in America that "NEWSFLASH!!!!" have NOT been running around rioting, killing, and burning churches and stuff; so to broadbrush the entire religion as needing to be destroyed is rather ignorant.

There are however a few things we should do as a Nation and Civilization.

1. Wean ourselves entirely off of arabian oil. Whither this is done by accepting the mild dmg to the ecology and performing more offshore and alaskain drilling, or by embracing electric transportation coupled with more nuclear energy, or other possible ways. This will negate the main reason we have to involve ourselves in that part of the world, and will enable us to more or less shun them.

2.Maintain a military policy of simple search and destroy, not holding of territory, when it comes to arab countries. Yes this will place a greater emphasis on bombing, cruise missles, and drone attacks; and will greatly increase civilian causalities per sortie. But due to the fact that we won;t be spending decades dealing with insurgencies it should even out.

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and then

I don't think that the "let just nuke all dem der rageheadz!!!" way of thinking is the best way to go about this. Such thinking only stoops us to the level of the ones who have embraced a form of Islam that is at it's farthest extreme. We have to remember that back when Christianity and the West were acting like them and showing the love and joy of Jesus, by burning people at the stake; islam was providing sanctuary to all those who would otherwise have died. And we also have millions of Muslim believers living in America that "NEWSFLASH!!!!" have NOT been running around rioting, killing, and burning churches and stuff; so to broadbrush the entire religion as needing to be destroyed is rather ignorant.

There are however a few things we should do as a Nation and Civilization.

1. Wean ourselves entirely off of arabian oil. Whither this is done by accepting the mild dmg to the ecology and performing more offshore and alaskain drilling, or by embracing electric transportation coupled with more nuclear energy, or other possible ways. This will negate the main reason we have to involve ourselves in that part of the world, and will enable us to more or less shun them.

2.Maintain a military policy of simple search and destroy, not holding of territory, when it comes to arab countries. Yes this will place a greater emphasis on bombing, cruise missles, and drone attacks; and will greatly increase civilian causalities per sortie. But due to the fact that we won;t be spending decades dealing with insurgencies it should even out.

Completely agree. There has to be a new paradigm if we are to be successful in this struggle.

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Yamato

If that were the case then why are they flipping out over a few burned books?

Because it's the same case; it's just an example of it.

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Corp

Not really. If they were p*** about the troops they'd be protesting about the foreign troops. Their main focus in this case is the burned books.

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Yamato

No I disagree...Christians in general are not known in this day and age to send death threats and kill people over a faith.. .Not like they used to.. I am not saying this to sound biased, because I am not a Christian.. I am saying it because I know that What Christians used to be known for and what they do now in present times are worlds apart..it was the laws of man that stopped Christians in their tracks of killing ...In Western society that's how it is..

They do not have a patch on the extremist Muslims when it comes to extreme death threats and violence over a mere faith

..Sorry but that's how a lot of people will see it

Here in western society we kill more foreigners than anybody. You're focused on the individuals inciting countries or tribes to violence on one side, but the same dynamic exists on both sides. The degree to which religion is the instigator and not government is important, why? Because once we agree with your thinking, then we'll do what? Write some laws that ethnically cleanse Muslims? Preventive war was the invention of Hitler and now people calling themselves Christians I'm sorry to say, are the ones following in Hitler's footsteps. The same behavior instigated by government is eminently excusable and when that becomes the case, it's a matter of which excuse for killing one can agree with. When it's "over a mere faith" then you won't agree. When it's over a mere policy, they won't agree. And I hardly see how this disagreement accomplishes anything but to keep the blood flowing.

If we keep our policies to ourselves they should be able to respect that; and if they keep their religion to themselves we should be able to in kind. It's beyond convenient their religion tells them to sweep the infidel from their land; that we don't like their mere faith because that's where we happened to be. If Islam was the problem, we should have let the House of Saud deal with Saddam. They'd have had plenty of time to figure out their grievances with one another, they'd have had no time or resources to come over here and pick a fight with us. Our policy causes the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" effect and unites what you see as the problem together. So if you do truly see the religion as the problem, it's another reason to agree with me from a policy standpoint.

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Yamato

The Holy Spirit is manifest in a human's thoughts and actions toward others and toward God. The Spirit indwells a Christian upon conversion and will be a companion in that person's life for as long as He is allowed to be. Knowledge of Christ (the Word) is gained from the Holy Bible. And many Christians look upon the destruction of that word as an abomination. But the very nature of Christianity is forgiveness and it's the Holy Spirit within a Christian that allows them to forgive.

The issue here is the hate manifest toward the West using their symbol of their religion. And the point of the thread was that it is time to leave this brutal, backward place where pages of paper mean more than a human life.

So then it's the people who are holy; but that isn't the case with a Muslim because?

Ron Paul wanted to leave Afghanistan due to legal, financial, and moral reasons in 2007. Was he right? Or is the point of this thread correct to proclaim it time to leave only now because now they're rioting over burnt holy books?

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