Talon Posted September 16, 2004 #1 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Iraq war illegal, says Annan The United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan has told the BBC the US-led invasion of Iraq was an illegal act that contravened the UN charter. He said the decision to take action in Iraq should have been made by the Security Council, not unilaterally. And he feared elections planned for January would not go ahead in Iraq unless security considerably improved. The UK government responded by saying the attorney-general made the "legal basis... clear at the time". Mr Annan said that "painful lessons" had been learnt since the war in Iraq. "Lessons for the US, the UN and other member states. I think in the end everybody's concluded it's best to work together with our allies and through the UN," he said in an interview with the BBC World Service. 'On track' "I hope we do not see another Iraq-type operation for a long time - without UN approval and much broader support from the international community." "From our point of view and the [uN] charter point of view it was illegal," he added. Mr Annan said the UN would give advice and assistance in the run-up to the elections, but it was up to the Iraqi interim government to decide whether such a vote should go ahead. He warned there could not be "credible elections if the security conditions continue as they are now". In response, a UK foreign office spokeswoman said: "The Attorney-General made the Government's position on the legal basis for the use of military force in Iraq clear at the time". Earlier on Wednesday, the head of the British army General Sir Mike Jackson said national elections in Iraq were still on track. He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "People are pretty confident that they can take place if everybody puts in the required effort and arrangements into it." His comments came a day after a car bomb close to an Iraqi police station in central Baghdad killed 47 people and gunmen opened fire on a police minibus in Baquba, killing 12. At the beginning of the week, Iraq's interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi said elections must go ahead as planned although he conceded the violence might stop some Iraqis voting. "If, for any reason, 300,000 people cannot vote because terrorists decide so - and this is imposing a very big if - then frankly 300,000 people is not going to alter 25 million people voting," he told The Times and Guardian newspapers. "There are problems, yes. But to the point that we can't conduct an election? I don't think so." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3661134.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellar Posted September 16, 2004 #2 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I can name a few other illegal things too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffybunny Posted September 16, 2004 #3 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Well you heard the man...the war is illegal...let's take all of our toys and go home... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellar Posted September 16, 2004 #4 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Well you heard the man...the war is illegal...let's take all of our toys and go home... 268156[/snapback] Well, how about the UN do something about it instead of just sitting on their asses complaining about everything yet not doing anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted September 16, 2004 Author #5 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Well, how about the UN do something about it instead of just sitting on their asses complaining about everything yet not doing anything. Fluffy was being sarcastic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffybunny Posted September 16, 2004 #6 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Whoah there stellar...down there big fella... It was sarcasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellar Posted September 16, 2004 #7 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Nah, I know he was being sarcastic... but the UN is so messed up right now. They have no credibility at all anymore. The UN is no longer to be feared. They dont take the necessary steps in many different matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bathory Posted September 16, 2004 #8 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Kofi, whats that about Oil For Food? what? you can't talk right now? its amusing how even after the whole scandal was uncovered, he can still make claims about the UN with a straight face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+joc Posted September 16, 2004 #9 Share Posted September 16, 2004 He said the decision to take action in Iraq should have been made by the Security Council, not unilaterally. And he is absolutely correct! The decision to take action in Iraq should have been made by the Security Council. They had their chance. As I recall President Bush all but got down on his hands and knees and begged them to take action. Kofi, whats that about Oil For Food? what? you can't talk right now? its amusing how even after the whole scandal was uncovered, he can still make claims about the UN with a straight face Maybe he can become the next News Anchor for CBS after Dan Rather retires next spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AztecInca Posted September 16, 2004 #10 Share Posted September 16, 2004 All I can do when I think about the UN is shake my head and mutter under my breath certain explict words about just how good this council is. If they classify this as illegal what does that make the genocides occuring all over the world! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted September 16, 2004 #11 Share Posted September 16, 2004 If they classify this as illegal what does that make the genocides occuring all over the world! Excellent point Well you heard the man...the war is illegal...let's take all of our toys and go home... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phenomenon Posted September 16, 2004 #12 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I think most people realise the war was illegal, and my my, what a good job the americans have done in the past few months. Perhaps it's time they pulled out and left these people to kil their own and not raise the death toll for americans and brits anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunarmdscissor Posted September 16, 2004 #13 Share Posted September 16, 2004 UNder the rules of international law i believe george bush , blair and howard where right . I dont think it was illegal. I just think it was a mistake total difference. An your right BTW if this war is illegal then what does that make what iraq was doing before the war then. If what we did was so wrong then wasnt what Iraq was doing before the war illegal and if so where were the UN's balls then?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted September 16, 2004 #14 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I think most people realise the war was illegal, and my my, what a good job the americans have done in the past few months. I wouldn't think most of the people actually on the ground risking their lives would think this war was illegal. The handling of the aftermath was a gross misjudgement of intelligence, however. As far as what a great job the Americans have done over the past few months, I think we are doing the best we can under the current circumstance. If we could start over, things would have been done differently, but dealing with the here and now, we're doing the best we can. Further international support would be nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunarmdscissor Posted September 16, 2004 #15 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I do agree with you there homer, the americans, british , polish, australians are tehre now. We have to stay and theyre doing the best tehy can. however it should be the ones at the top who pay for it. Homer the gross misjudgement of intelligence is what worries me. Was it misjudgement or deliberate mileading??? Thast what disturbs me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phenomenon Posted September 16, 2004 #16 Share Posted September 16, 2004 I think there can be no doubt as to why this war started, and since it has they have opened up a can of worms like never before. I don't think there can ever be a doubt that Bush wanted this war and no amount of intelligence was going to change that. "Just finishing off what my daddy started" !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted September 16, 2004 #17 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Homer the gross misjudgement of intelligence is what worries me. Was it misjudgement or deliberate mileading??? 268752[/snapback] An excellent question, and a question that should be further debated. But what about the British intelligence? Are they getting some heat for this as well? It’s my understanding that a lot of what we knew(thought we knew) had to do with British intelligence? If this war was just a personal vendetta from Bush, why was the British intelligence mentioned so often which apparently backed up Bush? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bathory Posted September 16, 2004 #18 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Was it misjudgement or deliberate mileading??? well it must have been one damn big conspiracy because the French, Russians, Israelis hell practically everyone had intelligence which said Saddam had wmds.. The UN believed it too....*twilight zone music* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunarmdscissor Posted September 16, 2004 #19 Share Posted September 16, 2004 An excellent question, and a question that should be further debated. But what about the British intelligence? Are they getting some heat for this as well? It’s my understanding that a lot of what we knew(thought we knew) had to do with British intelligence? If this war was just a personal vendetta from Bush, why was the British intelligence mentioned so often which apparently backed up Bush My comment was aimed at both british and american governments, because whatever happened they did it together. The british intelligence is getting massive flak over here. I dont know what to believe to be honest because their are two sides to everything. Wether it was intelligence who mislead bush and blair or not. I just ndont know , i suppose we will all find out eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted September 16, 2004 Author #20 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Iraq war allies rebuff UN chief Key states who joined the US-led invasion of Iraq have rejected claims by the United Nations secretary general that the war was illegal. Kofi Annan told the BBC the decision to take action in Iraq contravened the UN charter and should have been made by the Security Council, not unilaterally. But authorities in the UK, Australia, Poland, Bulgaria and Japan said the war was backed by international law. Australian Prime Minister John Howard described the UN as a "paralysed" body. And a former Bush administration aide, Randy Scheunemann, branded Mr Annan's comments "outrageous". 'Political interference' Mr Howard, fighting a cliffhanger re-election battle, insisted the invasion was legal. Labelling the international body "paralysed", he said it was incapable of dealing with international crises. "The legal advice we had - and I tabled it at the time - was that the action was entirely valid in international law terms," he said. Randy Scheunemann, a former advisor to US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, accused Mr Annan of trying to influence the outcome of the forthcoming US presidential election. "I think it is outrageous for the secretary general, who ultimately works for the member states, to try and supplant his judgement for the judgement of the member states," he told the BBC. "To do this 51 days before an American election reeks of political interference," Randy Scheunemann said. He said the UN's failure to act in Sudan, and in other areas around the world, was proving that effective multilateralism may be a contradiction in terms. 'Painful lessons' The British government - which has argued that UN resolutions provided a legal basis for intervening to topple Saddam Hussein - said the 2003 invasion was "not only lawful but necessary". "We spelt out at the time our reasons for believing the conflict in Iraq was indeed lawful and why we believed it was necessary to uphold those UN resolutions," Trade and Industry Secretary Patricia Hewitt told the BBC. Japan's top government spokesman, Hiroyuki Hosoda, told a news conference that he would be seeking clarification about the exact significance of Mr Annan's words. Polish Foreign Ministry spokesman Boguslaw Majewski said the "decisions which at that time were made by the international community in Iraq, did have legal basis". And Bulgarian spokeswoman Guergana Grantcharova cited previous Security Council resolutions which, she said, supported the case for war. 'Illegal invasion' Mr Annan told the BBC World Service he hoped he would not see "another Iraq-type operation for a long time". He said there should have been a second UN resolution following Iraq's failure to comply over weapons inspections and it should have been up to the Security Council to approve or determine the consequences. The invasion of Iraq was illegal, he said, from the point of view of the UN charter. Mr Annan also warned security in Iraq must considerably improve if credible elections are to be held in January. The BBC's Susannah Price, at UN headquarters in New York, says Mr Annan's relationship with the US might be made a little uncomfortable for a while following his comments, but both sides are likely to want to play it down. US President George W Bush is due to speak at the UN General Assembly next week. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3661736.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lottie Posted September 16, 2004 #21 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Whats done is done, it happened end of story. Where does it go from here is what I want to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon Posted September 16, 2004 Author #22 Share Posted September 16, 2004 Where does it go from here is what I want to know. Hopefully more on sorting out Iraq than the west blasting each other over and over again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velikovsky Posted September 17, 2004 #23 Share Posted September 17, 2004 Kofi, whats that about Oil For Food? what? you can't talk right now? its amusing how even after the whole scandal was uncovered, he can still make claims about the UN with a straight face 268371[/snapback] LMFAO! The UN is a failed attempt at world peace. They need to be disbanded with a new organization formed. At this point in time they remind me of the League of Nations before WW2. Not a single country in the world worries about what the UN might do. After their continued inaction over the worlds tragedies they have become a joke. The only time you see the UN take action is when the US pressures them into it. They have become as corrupt and inept as half the worlds governments. Annan can sit there and call the actions of the US illegal all he wants. Whats he going to do about it? Not a damn thing. Does any country in the world care enough about it? Nope they might talk but that's all they'll do. The UN either needs to be a strong force in world politics ready to back up what they say or they need to be disbanded. Is there anyone who's not willing to completely ignore them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dowdy Posted September 17, 2004 #24 Share Posted September 17, 2004 I don't think there can ever be a doubt that Bush wanted this war and no amount of intelligence was going to change that. well, the troops were there a month before the weapon inspectors even came. Bush wanted this war no matter what Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmorrow6 Posted September 17, 2004 #25 Share Posted September 17, 2004 this is a tad off topic, but why can't the UN seize saddam husseins assets, and rebuild iraq with that. Build new schools, hospitals etc....... If he has billions, and it was put to good use, what a beautiful country it could be..... I for one think that anyone found guilty of the crimes he's facing shouldn't have rights.... ie. his personal property.... Just a thought...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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