rashore Posted March 6, 2012 #51 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I'm curious Paracelse.. If you aren't pagan, what faith do you follow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted March 6, 2012 #52 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Easy. People respond to what they believe, not what is so. And if a person believes it may be dangerous to harrass another, they are less likely to do so. Like the short story of a man who owned a shop in a crime ridden neighbourhood. He was never robbed because the local hoods believed he was "connected " to organised crime. Maybe he was, or maybe he wasnt. His protection didnt come from any connection, whether it existed or not, it came from how the hoods perceived him, and what they believed about him. Criminals are not too bright and chose easy targets. Why pick on a person you think might be able to put a curse on you, or call on the mafia bosses, when there are easier targets. I do not disagree that what you argue is possible, what I counter is it only applies to Pre Operational/Concrete operational or folks who have genuine learning issues . Once a person hits Formal Concrete Operations they will have the maturation(brain) to discern propaganda and common sense prattle . So how do we address this MW, for one we look out for our young until maturation and two we make sure they get a quality education at home and in school. . Edited March 6, 2012 by Sherapy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paracelse Posted March 7, 2012 #53 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Yup it works. Many of the kids (12-18 year olds) at my school believe i am a ninja assassin who can walk through rain without getting wet, and can kill a person barehanded, or with any number of items lying around the class room. Whether they are right or wrong, I benefit from their belief. And I am not about to disabuse them of it. (It might even be the truth). When one is dealing with testosterone charged young men, a foot taller than you, and 45 years younger, one takes every advantage one has. That includes the real ones, (yes i could still do what they think I can) and the perceived ones. Perception stops a lot more violence than violence does. Most people use body language etc., to create a psychological advantage with other people, yet this is only a form of belief. Thanks for explaining what is basic psychology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paracelse Posted March 7, 2012 #54 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I'm curious Paracelse.. If you aren't pagan, what faith do you follow? I have no faith in particular however I did study all sort forms of "Mystical School" from the remnant of Mithraic Mysteries to Druidic teachings. To this I will include the Kabalah and even the pre-Crowley Golden Dawn. I was a guest in some Covent in Kansas and Nebreska I've read the complete work of Schwaller de Lubicz, Jacob Boehme, now I researching Cathare theaching and I intend to drive to Montsegur this summer. So what does that make me? Nothing more than a perpetual student I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted March 8, 2012 #55 Share Posted March 8, 2012 And who or what exactly would give them the spells? What is your assumption based on? .OR are you just going along with made up rumours by so many anti-Pagans who have not gotten the 1st clue? Can you explain which is it? My assumption is that true /real modern pagans have access to the same magics and spells that ancient ones did. Such as druids, celtic shamans and the earliest shamans of the russian steppes. Basically the powers of the earth, plant and animal spirits, wind, water, sky, sun and moon. A person who can sense and integrate with these natural "forces and powers", has many abilities open to them. So yes. If one believes, then a pagan could have the same form of powers and magic, as any other supernatural entity. They work both to heal and to protect. But i was saying more simply; IT DOESNT MATTER if a person has powers or abilities. What matters is what others believe about them. It doesnt matter if I can kill a person a dozen ways with my bare hands, if people believe that I can. They will act on their belief and I will not have to do anything to protect myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted March 8, 2012 #56 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Thanks for explaining what is basic psychology Well some readers /posters dont seem to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted March 8, 2012 #57 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I do not disagree that what you argue is possible, what I counter is it only applies to Pre Operational/Concrete operational or folks who have genuine learning issues . Once a person hits Formal Concrete Operations they will have the maturation(brain) to discern propaganda and common sense prattle . So how do we address this MW, for one we look out for our young until maturation and two we make sure they get a quality education at home and in school. . Yes, and in particular we do all we can to stop young people doing things which will harm their brain development and prevent its maturation. We also have inpart to restrict their freedoms, rights and rsponsibilities, unfortunately, until they are old enough to act responsibly. Observing adults, there is a large percentage, perhaps in general even a majority, who never learn full logicala reasoning, and act on impulse and emotion all their lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted March 8, 2012 #58 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) A person who can sense and integrate with these natural "forces and powers", has many abilities open to them. So yes. If one believes, then a pagan could have the same form of powers and magic, as any other supernatural entity. They work both to heal and to protect. But i was saying more simply; IT DOESNT MATTER if a person has powers or abilities. What matters is what others believe about them. It doesnt matter if I can kill a person a dozen ways with my bare hands, if people believe that I can. They will act on their belief and I will not have to do anything to protect myself. It does matter, because facts matter of what a person WANTS to believe ... We have no proof that spells work.. You can choose believe it or not, but belief is all you have if you do, as you cannot seek actual facts .. And further more I can not see how claiming to be a Pagan will scare anyone.. Only those that choose to believe they are evil with dark spells out of ignorant tales told will believe it.. But it does not make it facts If you are a believer in their healing power like you have just noted above, then that is a matter of your choice.. I have no dispute with what one chooses to believe... But if they really do have healing powers, then obviously these people are indeed blessed by God... Oh to add... anyone can kill with bare hands lol we need no magic or proof of that.. Your analogy cannot compare ... Spells cannot be proven... killing with bare hands can and has done.. Edited March 8, 2012 by Beckys_Mom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paracelse Posted March 8, 2012 #59 Share Posted March 8, 2012 We have no proof that spells work.. I do but it is not something I can show anyone, since I'm the only one who is witness. Also I can't tell how long it will take for the spell to come to its physical realisation . It can take a day it can take weeks but it does happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paracelse Posted March 8, 2012 #60 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Well some readers /posters dont seem to get it. When Hitler invaded the Rhine region in 38, French and Brits alike could have taken him without a single shot but they didn't believe they could so they didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted March 8, 2012 #61 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I do but it is not something I can show anyone, since I'm the only one who is witness. Also I can't tell how long it will take for the spell to come to its physical realisation . It can take a day it can take weeks but it does happen. No use to me as actual proof... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paracelse Posted March 8, 2012 #62 Share Posted March 8, 2012 No use to me as actual proof... I never qttempted to convince anyone and yet when people know me they do believe me :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted March 8, 2012 #63 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I never qttempted to convince anyone and yet when people know me they do believe me :devil: I guess they are not like me and easy to convince lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paracelse Posted March 8, 2012 #64 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I guess they are not like me and easy to convince lol Every one, which include you and me has an Achille's Heel. It different in each one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted March 8, 2012 #65 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Every one, which include you and me has an Achille's Heel. It different in each one. Yea but luckily my Achillies heel is not taking in every story I hear lol I tend to question a lot of things.. The Pagan faith is not something I personally would comment too much on, I know very little about it...BUT I respect those that do follow it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paracelse Posted March 9, 2012 #66 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Yea but luckily my Achillies heel is not taking in every story I hear lol I tend to question a lot of things.. The Pagan faith is not something I personally would comment too much on, I know very little about it...BUT I respect those that do follow it... In psychological attacks (something Mr Walker explained very well in the thread) one doesn't need to know or learn paganism to find the Achille's heel of another. It's ingrained. Ask my ex-wife!!!! :devil: She discovered mine right away Edited March 9, 2012 by Paracelse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted March 9, 2012 #67 Share Posted March 9, 2012 In psychological attacks (something Mr Walker explained very well in the thread) one doesn't need to know or learn paganism to find the Achille's heel of another. It's ingrained. Ask my ex-wife!!!! I don't beleive a single word lol I am not obligated to either... I like to expand my mind to other possible answers than just accept a belief... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paracelse Posted March 9, 2012 #68 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I don't beleive a single word lol I am not obligated to either... I like to expand my mind to other possible answers than just accept a belief... Trust me she was a lutheran wben we met and never studied Paganism but I can tell you she was (I guess I could say she prolly still is) a witch :innocent: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted March 9, 2012 #69 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Trust me she was a lutheran wben we met and never studied Paganism but I can tell you she was (I guess I could say she prolly still is) a witch :innocent: And yet you fail to convince me the spells are real.. You can hold beliefs in it all you like.. But I wont... How many times need I post that? Edited March 9, 2012 by Beckys_Mom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted March 10, 2012 #70 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Yes, and in particular we do all we can to stop young people doing things which will harm their brain development and prevent its maturation. We also have inpart to restrict their freedoms, rights and rsponsibilities, unfortunately, until they are old enough to act responsibly. Observing adults, there is a large percentage, perhaps in general even a majority, who never learn full logicala reasoning, and act on impulse and emotion all their lives Again I do not disagree that there are adults who do not cultivate their logic.( Freud would agree with you that most adults never leave the ID stage). And I agree with your points about kids and their brains. Yet, I still suggest that the majority of those that would beleive as you suggest probably are between 3 and 7. Your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libstaK Posted March 10, 2012 #71 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Projecting onto others the cause of own failings is as old as time. It is a funciton of the "criminal mind" aka: he made me do it, it's not my fault. The sooner people realise this simple truth the sooner superstition about the power of voodoo and witchcraft can be laid to rest. We are all responsible for our own actions or "re-actions" to others, the "criminal" is in our own psyche, look there for the cause and stop using false beliefs to justify harming others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted March 10, 2012 #72 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Again I do not disagree that there are adults who do not cultivate their logic.( Freud would agree with you that most adults never leave the ID stage). And I agree with your points about kids and their brains. Yet, I still suggest that the majority of those that would beleive as you suggest probably are between 3 and 7. Your thoughts? I do not teach children that young. I deal with those between 12 and 18. As far as i can estimate from observation, conversatations and their responses, most of them, over the last 40 years of teaching, do notthink like adults. They simply cannot do, becuse significant physical parts of their brains are not yet existent. However in part it depends how they have been brought up to think. Some are completely skeptical of everything, because they are taught to be by their parents . Most are basically accepting of serious opinion from an adult like me, because they are taught to be. Kids are also, basically, open to anything from ghosts ot aliens to angels. They have their own beliefs about these things, and havent been ground down by the worldly cynicism and disbeliefs of adults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardCor Posted March 10, 2012 #73 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Are you fuc%in kidding me, when is this archaic world gonna wake up... witches, are you serious, these people should be put down and this trend be squashed immediately. Jesus people are stupid. btw, well said libstaK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckys_Mom Posted March 10, 2012 #74 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Projecting onto others the cause of own failings is as old as time. It is a funciton of the "criminal mind" aka: he made me do it, it's not my fault. The sooner people realise this simple truth the sooner superstition about the power of voodoo and witchcraft can be laid to rest. We are all responsible for our own actions or "re-actions" to others, the "criminal" is in our own psyche, look there for the cause and stop using false beliefs to justify harming others. It goes to show you just how silly people can really get, when they fall for these things and beleive they are real..I think they want to beleive in it to condemn them.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libstaK Posted March 10, 2012 #75 Share Posted March 10, 2012 It goes to show you just how silly people can really get, when they fall for these things and beleive they are real..I think they want to beleive in it to condemn them.. Yep everyone is "holier than thou" in these things, everyone thinks the best of themselves and to continue to do so they have to put others down and harm them - it's all about power. Those that do the accusing will not face their own failings, they will blame others for what is wrong with their lives, even their own children or the children of neighbours etc. The ones doing the so called exorcisms are in effect practicing "black magick" in it's vilest form by fascinating the masses with their "power" to find and gid rid of "witches", it's pure craziness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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