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Still Waters

'Sexist trousers' are below the belt

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karmakazi

I just read through the article again.... and I realized I'm far more offended by the article writer's assumption that women who find this funny are actually terrified of being called a feminist than I am by the actually pants.

URgh.

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Lilly

Perhaps I'd find it funnier if I was younger. And yes, I do indeed compare sexism to racism. I can personally recall a time when women and minority races were "kept in their respective places". The 'good old days' weren't all that good in certain respects, it would do us good to remember that.

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Leonardo

Comparing women to a minority race there? Fight the oppression Lilly!

I see women as equal, I'd laugh if I saw something similar directed towards men.

Perhaps we could post some examples, such as:

On a condom packet: 'For her pleasure... Because if he wasn't wearing this, he wouldn't last a second.'

Edit: If you knew me you'd know I'd never seriously say something like my above post, but solely in response to the over-the-top article, it had to be said. All in the name of light hearted humour of course...

But I do see the article and resulting discussion as being so far over the top that I'm thinking of writing a shock article about it.

The condom comment is funny, because it is self-deprecation. The comment on the trouser label is not self-deprecation, it contains no satire aimed towards the person wearing the trousers.

Making deprecating jokes about ourselves is funny. Making deprecating jokes about others is not - unless the 'other' is someone we know very well and understands it is only a joke.

Edited by Leonardo

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Neognosis
Would the tag still be funny if it read something like this: "Or give it to someone '_______' (insert a minority race) it's their job"? I suspect the clothing company would be in court as we speak, up to their armpits in legal troubles.

You are wrong again. Racist and Sexist speech is protected by the first amendment.

Who makes these jeans? I want a pair now. I didn't have any interest in them before, *snip* I'm willing to give it a try.

btw, if it was something racist against a group who was actually currently being persecuted, I just would not buy the jeans. Simple as that. Crying about it JUST made these jeans more popular.

Edited by Saru
Removed sexist remark

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Sakari

You are wrong again. Racist and Sexist speech is protected by the first amendment.

Who makes these jeans? I want a pair now. I didn't have any interest in them before, I'm willing to give it a try.

btw, if it was something racist against a group who was actually currently being persecuted, I just would not buy the jeans. Simple as that. Crying about it JUST made these jeans more popular.

:yes::tu:

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Mantis914

I disagree, sexism is alive and well in 2012. It's greater in less developed countries, but even in western society it still exists.

I wonder how humorous everyone would find a direction label that suggests the task at hand be done by a person of a specific race or religion? I suspect very few would admit to finding it 'funny' (at least not publically).

I agree, sexism is alive and well, just turn on the TV and you'll see misandry in full effect!!

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Mantis914

Everyone knows men don't bother reading the labels in their pants! Err... well actually I usually don't either. Hurl it all in the machine, dump in some detergent, hit start. DONE.

Are we that notorious about labels??? Actually, our methods of doing things are quite similar!! :P

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Cassea

She squeezed three articles out of it. Not bad. But it seems the company didn't even know about the label and will have it removed. And she's just given them lots of publicity

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Leonardo

You are wrong again. Racist and Sexist speech is protected by the first amendment.

You really should read up on your Constitution before making comments about it. For a start, the freedom of speech guaranteed in the First Amendment applies to citizens - not corporate entities or companies. Additionally, having freedom of speech does not grant anyone the right to break other laws - and it is against the law in many of the States to publically speak racially aggravating language.

Who makes these jeans? I want a pair now. I didn't have any interest in them before, I'm willing to give it a try.

btw, if it was something racist against a group who was actually currently being persecuted, I just would not buy the jeans. Simple as that. Crying about it JUST made these jeans more popular.

Ah, so you would not be happy to continue persecution of a group of people, but you would be happy to start it?

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karmakazi

Are we that notorious about labels??? Actually, our methods of doing things are quite similar!! :P

:yes: Yeah you guys are pretty notorious about labels. But I don't blame you, most men's clothing isn't made of the fragile and delicate fabrics that make up far too much of women's clothing, so you're less likely to utterly destroy something by tossing it in the dryer.

I was in a long relationship where he did all the laundry because I didn't do a good enough job for his tastes. :rolleyes:

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Michelle

Ah, so you would not be happy to continue persecution of a group of people, but you would be happy to start it?

:tu:

He refuses to acknowledge that women are still discriminated against in the work place.

"but if buying a pair will help remove women from the workplace again, I'm willing to give it a try."

This statement alone proves there are still men out there that will do whatever they can to get women out of the work force.

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Ratte

You are wrong again. Racist and Sexist speech is protected by the first amendment.

Who makes these jeans? I want a pair now. I didn't have any interest in them before, *snip* I'm willing to give it a try.

btw, if it was something racist against a group who was actually currently being persecuted, I just would not buy the jeans. Simple as that. Crying about it JUST made these jeans more popular.

You have got to be joking. Women have to work twice as hard as men at the same job to be considered half as good and they do. I've been through this crap before and anyone who honestly thinks women shouldn't work needs to meet the women I work with and see their daily struggles.

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Lilly

You are wrong again. Racist and Sexist speech is protected by the first amendment...

I can guarantee that if a jeans label stated that one should give the pants to a person of African, Chinese, or Hispanic ethnicity to launder because it's "their job" they'd end up in court PDQ.

Also, try saying certain racial slurs in public and see where it gets you. You'll find your "freedom of speech" argument won't help much if someone decides to call the police.

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Neognosis
You really should read up on your Constitution before making comments about it. For a start, the freedom of speech guaranteed in the First Amendment applies to citizens - not corporate entities or companies. Additionally, having freedom of speech does not grant anyone the right to break other laws - and it is against the law in many of the States to publically speak racially aggravating language.

You are wrong on all counts above, especially in your illogical attempt to link freedom of speech and breaking other laws.

It's not against the law in ANY US state to speak racially aggravating language.

It is also not relevant to this discussion about a label in jeans claiming that laundry is "women's work."

If you can provide any evidence for your claims above, please do so.

He refuses to acknowledge that women are still discriminated against in the work place.

"but if buying a pair will help remove women from the workplace again, I'm willing to give it a try."

This statement alone proves there are still men out there that will do whatever they can to get women out of the work force.

Actually YOUR statement proves how over sensitive and void of any sense of humor some people are.

You have got to be joking. Women have to work twice as hard as men at the same job to be considered half as good and they do. I've been through this crap before and anyone who honestly thinks women shouldn't work needs to meet the women I work with and see their daily struggles.

Really? Is that why police and fire departments require women to lift less than their male counterparts? Does anyone here actually work with a woman in the same position, same responsibilities, who makes less then the men around her for no reason other than she is a woman?

Be honest, don't come in here making stories up to support your outdated position.

I can guarantee that if a jeans label stated that one should give the pants to a person of African, Chinese, or Hispanic ethnicity to launder because it's "their job" they'd end up in court PDQ.

Really? you can guarantee it? Based on what? Do you have any evidence showing that a company was banned from selling anything in the united states because their clothing made a racist statement?

I have no doubt that some crybaby has brought such a suit, but they would not be successful. Because of a document called the US Constitution and the attached first amendment to said constitution.

This is just an attempt by you to convince people that your class (women) is so persecuted, they don't even get the same protection as some races. Which is, of course, nonsense.

Also, try saying certain racial slurs in public and see where it gets you. You'll find your "freedom of speech" argument won't help much if someone decides to call the police.

Here's a resource on some racist speech that is protected. So again, your response is based on your inaccurate world view and your emotions, not on what actually happens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandenburg_v._Ohio

Here, I'll cut and paste from the decision:

The U.S. Supreme Court reversed Brandenburg's conviction, holding that government cannot constitutionally punish abstract advocacy of force or law violation.

Not only is it protected speech to say "bad" words, even abstract advocacy of force or law violation is protected. AS LONG AS there is no direct link between you saying something and someone carrying out what you said.

I can legally get up and say "I think all purple people ought to be beaten up!"

What I can't say is "Let's go right now and beat up some purple people!" and then a bunch of people go beat up some purple people.

This is the law, and there are several cases that support or cite this decision.

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Sakari

I have a question.....

Out of all the commercials on TV, Laundrry detergents, cleaning supplies, etc.

How many of those commercials show a dude dancing around with a mop?.......Or loading the washer?

Anyone crying about that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9LTRbWsGOI

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Eldorado

Calm down folks. It all happened in the UK so your "freedom of speech" wasn't harmed.

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Ratte

Really? Is that why police and fire departments require women to lift less than their male counterparts? Does anyone here actually work with a woman in the same position, same responsibilities, who makes less then the men around her for no reason other than she is a woman?

Be honest, don't come in here making stories up to support your outdated position.

I've been saying for years that the millitary standards for women should be raised to that of men. But also, any woman who meets this requirement should be allowed on the front lines. If a woman can do the same job, she should make the same ammount of money and be treated with the same respect. Yes, I do work at a place like that. Good ol' Wally world where there is a cap on what women can make and nothing they can do about it. They can still get paid well, but their male counterparts have the potential to make more just because they are male. Before you accuse me of making up stories, you should come down here and meet Christina and Lynn. Truck crew and shoes respectively. Though Lynn does come back to help the truck crew on occasion. These women lift and carry as much as the rest of us, and even though they do the same back breaking labor, we still have the potential to earn more, just because we are men. How is that fair?

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Neognosis

JUST because YOU'VE been saying it doesn't make it true. The standards for women are LOWER in many cases.

If a woman can do the same job, she should make the same ammount of money and be treated with the same respect.

That is what happens, by and large. And if it's not, there's usually a legal action, like when your Walmart was sued, although they lost.

Can you show us Walmart's policy that puts a cap on female workers, yet allows male workers in the same role to make more? I'm betting you can't.

why would I make that bet? Because you failed to show such in the lawsuit.

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Michelle

I've given you one personal example of my sister, Neo.

Why don't you take a look at this site for some facts?

http://www.imdiversity.com/villages/careers/articles/hicks_discrimination_suits_soar.asp

In seven of the ten industries studied by the General Accounting Office, the wage gap between male and female managers widened between 1995 and 2000.

Edited by Michelle

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Neognosis

and I can give you my personal examples that I have worked with women who make the same as or more than I do since I entered the workforce in 1995.

that site does not list successfull suits, only that a suit was brought. Like walmart, where it was dismissed.

Interesting that the suits are not over being hired, or promoted to manager, or being let into a profession. They are about pay discrepancies, which may or may not exist.

And they all cite 1964's Title VII.

You have your own laws protecting you and allowing you to pursue perceived injustices in court.

Yet you still are going to cry about a label in a pair of jeans? How about this: don't buy the jeans, ignore the label.

Tell your friends how this awful, sexist label is preventing you from earning the same amount of money as your male counterparts.

And I'll go out and buy myself a pair because I think that you are being oversensitive, emotional, and silly.

oh, the irony.... (or iron-y, as this case may be.)

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Sakari

and I can give you my personal examples that I have worked with women who make the same as or more than I do since I entered the workforce in 1995.

that site does not list successfull suits, only that a suit was brought. Like walmart, where it was dismissed.

Interesting that the suits are not over being hired, or promoted to manager, or being let into a profession. They are about pay discrepancies, which may or may not exist.

And they all cite 1964's Title VII.

You have your own laws protecting you and allowing you to pursue perceived injustices in court.

Yet you still are going to cry about a label in a pair of jeans? How about this: don't buy the jeans, ignore the label.

Tell your friends how this awful, sexist label is preventing you from earning the same amount of money as your male counterparts.

And I'll go out and buy myself a pair because I think that you are being oversensitive, emotional, and silly.

oh, the irony.... (or iron-y, as this case may be.)

I am leaving for work, shoot me a link where I can buy a pair or two also :tu:

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Michelle

Never mind..

I learned years ago when someone is not worth my time.

Edited by Michelle

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Mantis914

I have a question.....

Out of all the commercials on TV, Laundrry detergents, cleaning supplies, etc.

How many of those commercials show a dude dancing around with a mop?.......Or loading the washer?

Anyone crying about that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9LTRbWsGOI

I can answer that, I've seen a Swiffer commercial like that...

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Mantis914

I've never heard of NOW or any other women's organization/group protesting nor boycotting those pajamas that women run around with that say PINK or what have you written across the butt. Is that not exploiting the female's rear end?? The sole reason for it written across the butt is to attract attention. Don't give me that crap about its cute or what have you because if that's the case why wasn't it written down the leg or on the thigh? Yet, a label INSIDE the pants gets all this grief... wow...

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Michelle

I've never heard of NOW or any other women's organization/group protesting nor boycotting those pajamas that women run around with that say PINK or what have you written across the butt. Is that not exploiting the female's rear end?? The sole reason for it written across the butt is to attract attention. Don't give me that crap about its cute or what have you because if that's the case why wasn't it written down the leg or on the thigh? Yet, a label INSIDE the pants gets all this grief... wow...

I haven't said a word about the pants. But, when some ignoramus claims that women aren't discriminated against in the workplace I have to speak out, because I know or a fact they are. I also know that no amount of evidence is going to convince narrow-minded people that have a blind eye towards it.

I may as well be arguing with Archie Bunker in that case. :rolleyes:

Edited by Michelle

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