advanced aliens or ancient humans?

[nopeda]

I have had the same thoughts and again this is point is totally missed by the historians.

If our circumstances today are anything to go by, we only expend massive labour and resources for a return. For example a power generating plant, a hydro dam, or even high rise building. Nothing on that scale is ever done for reasons of folly or whim. I reject the idea totally that it was for all for some vainglorious pharaoh.

They needed these pyramids because they served a purpose and were functional. It has to be the case. The same with Puma Punku and other megalithic sites.

They built those things in honor of the beings who may have helped them afaik, and they had to have some reasons to believe it would be worth the time and effort. What could they have been?

[nopeda]

nopeda, on 09 October 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

If they're interested in helping us they could still be defensive as they do so. Odd that you people don't seem able to appreciate things like that. You only seem able to consider one possibility and none that are different.

So you agree that they would be on the defensive? But you think they had a more prominent hand in the building during the ancients time??

It appears and also seems most likely that they would be doing things in stages, imo. If they did come around a lot in the past and do many of the things that are said about them, I wonder if they also predicted that if they kept it on the down low for a few centuries the general population would begin to disbelieve it. People today in general seem to have difficulty believe xts could have ever been here and had any influence, yet in the not too distant past people believed there were huge cities on Mars.

[nopeda]

You could have said I was mistaken. You could have provided a quote to what you said. But you didn't, you resorted to calling me a liar. Does this mean you don't think the carvings at Abydos supports your position? If so, I am clearly mistaken.

Calling people liars and claiming they are clueless is simply a tactic (well worn, I might add) of yours to deflect attention from your refusal to provide valid arguments to support your position. You started this thread, you are the one claiming alien intervention. You have provided absolutely no evidence to prove your case. And as far as clueless,...that is how I would describe anyone who uses Ancient Aliens as a source.

If I accused you of deliberate dishonesty unfairly then I'm sorry, but believed it was deliberate at the time if I did. There's plenty of info in the Ancient Alien shows regardless of whether xts have been here or not. There are also combined velocities between objects in space that need to be accounted for. There are also carvings of vehicles that appear to represent air vehicles and none of them look like they were carved to represent something else and they just fell apart extremely coincidentally in a way that made them all look like air vehicles. That's just how it is.

[nopeda]

You think that creating light from a moving object is the same as throwing a baseball (or any object), but if, in fact, you would simply do some research, you would find it is not.

There are objects moving toward us at high velocities in space. The combination of that velocity PLUS the 186K miles per second light leaves the object from BOTH need to be accounted for, and blue shifting shows that it DOES have an influence on light. Why the velocity doesn't APPEAR TO BE influenced is what's in question. In reality it might be influenced both by the combined velocity AND whatever it is that makes the adjustment to it when it gets to areas of space where humans have been able to test it.

[nopeda]

It certainly points to advanced methods.

Didn't the builders of the Great Pyramid just use the "cut 'em in cubes, drag 'em, lift 'em and stack 'em" method?

From what I understand they didn't have wheels or pulleys, and didn't have steel.

[Gaden]

There are objects moving toward us at high velocities in space. The combination of that velocity PLUS the 186K miles per second light leaves the object from BOTH need to be accounted for, and blue shifting shows that it DOES have an influence on light. Why the velocity doesn't APPEAR TO BE influenced is what's in question. In reality it might be influenced both by the combined velocity AND whatever it is that makes the adjustment to it when it gets to areas of space where humans have been able to test it.

In 1905, Albert Einstein postulated that the speed of light with respect to any inertial frame is independent of the motion of the light source

[Gaden]

... There are also carvings of vehicles that appear to represent air vehicles and none of them look like they were carved to represent something else and they just fell apart extremely coincidentally in a way that made them all look like air vehicles. That's just how it is.

The carving has been explained, ad nauseum. They are carvings over carvings, that is just how it is. Since it is your main argument, I understand why you will not admit you are wrong. Got anything else? The fact that you are still referring to the show "Ancient Aliens" is further proof that you have no desire to learn the truth. 118 pages since march and you still have not made a case. Color me done.

[synchronomy]

There are objects moving toward us at high velocities in space. The combination of that velocity PLUS the 186K miles per second light leaves the object from BOTH need to be accounted for, and blue shifting shows that it DOES have an influence on light. Why the velocity doesn't APPEAR TO BE influenced is what's in question. In reality it might be influenced both by the combined velocity AND whatever it is that makes the adjustment to it when it gets to areas of space where humans have been able to test it.

The relative velocities ARE accounted for. It's YOU that cannot comprehend it.

Did you watch the video I posted under post #1727?

That was for your benefit.

Edited October 11, 2012 by synchronomy

[nopeda]

nopeda, on 11 October 2012 - 05:01 PM, said:

There are objects moving toward us at high velocities in space. The combination of that velocity PLUS the 186K miles per second light leaves the object from BOTH need to be accounted for, and blue shifting shows that it DOES have an influence on light. Why the velocity doesn't APPEAR TO BE influenced is what's in question. In reality it might be influenced both by the combined velocity AND whatever it is that makes the adjustment to it when it gets to areas of space where humans have been able to test it.

In 1905, Albert Einstein postulated that the speed of light with respect to any inertial frame is independent of the motion of the light source

The motion of the light source relative to what?

[nopeda]

nopeda, on 11 October 2012 - 04:59 PM, said:

... There are also carvings of vehicles that appear to represent air vehicles and none of them look like they were carved to represent something else and they just fell apart extremely coincidentally in a way that made them all look like air vehicles. That's just how it is.

The carving has been explained, ad nauseum. They are carvings over carvings, that is just how it is. Since it is your main argument, I understand why you will not admit you are wrong. Got anything else? The fact that you are still referring to the show "Ancient Aliens" is further proof that you have no desire to learn the truth. 118 pages since march and you still have not made a case. Color me done.

Regardless of what you do or don't do they don't look like they were carved to represent something else and they just fell apart extremely coincidentally in a way that made them all look like air vehicles OR THAT people carved over original carvings extremely coincidentally in a way that made them all look like air vehicles. That's just how it is and always will be unless something changes the carvings.

[nopeda]

The relative velocities ARE accounted for. It's YOU that cannot comprehend it.

Did you watch the video I posted under post #1727?

That was for your benefit.

My connection speed is too slow to watch videos. Why don't you just tell me what they say makes the adjustment? If you would say time dilation then you would need to explain how it could adjust the light from all the countless different velocities of different light sources in the universe so they all impact the area where humans can test at the same velocity relative to them. If every light source had the same velocity relative to Earth then time would only need to make one adjustment, but since the velocities are countless it would most certainly need to make many many different types of adjustments, both in a positive and negative way accounting for velocities toward and away from us.

Edited October 15, 2012 by nopeda

[booNyzarC]

My connection speed is too slow to watch videos.

Relative to what?

Why don't you just tell me what they say makes the adjustment?

Relative to what?

If you would say time dilation then you would need to explain how it could adjust the light from all the countless different velocities of different light sources in the universe so they all impact the area where humans can test at the same velocity relative to them.

Relative to what?

If every light source had the same velocity relative to Earth then time would only need to make one adjustment, but since the velocities are countless it would most certainly need to make many many different types of adjustments, both in a positive and negative way accounting for velocities toward and away from us.

Relative to what?

[+DieChecker]

Why don't you just tell me what they say makes the adjustment?

There is no adjustment.

If there was an adjustment, there would be no Red-Shift/Blue-Shift. Since we (everyone everywhere) do see the red-shift/blue-shift then there can not be any adjustment, and the only answer is that the velocity of the emitter only affects the energy level (wavelength) of the emitted light. c is a constant (in near vacuum).

[synchronomy]

My connection speed is too slow to watch videos. Why don't you just tell me what they say makes the adjustment? If you would say time dilation then you would need to explain how it could adjust the light from all the countless different velocities of different light sources in the universe so they all impact the area where humans can test at the same velocity relative to them. If every light source had the same velocity relative to Earth then time would only need to make one adjustment, but since the velocities are countless it would most certainly need to make many many different types of adjustments, both in a positive and negative way accounting for velocities toward and away from us.

It's ironic that the discussion relates to the speed of light and your connection speed is insuffient for the video. I wish you could watch it. A least save the link so at somepoint you can.

Time and space distort so that light speed is always constant to the observer. It is a hard concept to understand, but time and space are not absolute. Think of them both as being elastic and they "slosh" back and forth between each other.

We think of empty space as being just that, empty. If, indeed, it were empty, then the idea of having 2 points separated by a certain distance would be impossible. If space were "empty", then 2 points in space, by definition would occupy the same location. In order for them to have separation, something must be between them which is space. Space is like a fabric or matrix. It can bend, twist, and stretch.

Space, itself, is constantly expanding and the mind boggling thing is that the expansion is accelerating. The entire universe is expanding faster today than it was 5 minutes ago, and a lot faster than 1 billion years ago.

The faster an object travels, the more space and time distort around it relative to an observer. This accounts for the differing adjustments necessary for the countless objects we can see in the universe. It's all done automatically for us.

When the ISS crews return to Earth after about 6 months in space they have aged several milliseconds less than us, and clocks they take with them have lost time also.

Estimates vary, but if you were to ride a spaceship at lightspeed away from earth for 1 year, then turn around and come back again in 1 year, you would only age 2 years. Incredibly your family, your children, your grandchildren and many generations of your decendants would have lived normal lifespans and all be dead and gone. You would have one helluva stack of newpapers to read to catch up.

If a rocket went flying past us near light speed, it would look to us like it had been dramatically shortened. If it had a clock on board that we could hear ticking, the clock would be running very slowly from our perspective.

No matter where light is reaching earth from, if we measure the speed of light from any star or galaxy no matter how far away it is or how fast it is travelling either towards us or away from us, the light is travelling about 671,000,000 miles per hour. The only thing that ever changes is it's frequency never the velocity.

It's hard to get your head around this because we live in a world where everything is constant, including time, because we move very slowly.

Hope that helps a bit.

Edited October 16, 2012 by synchronomy

[nopeda]

Relative to what?

Relative to what?

Relative to what?

Relative to what?

Connection speed is relative to speeds that are not too slow to watch videos. Adjustment is relative to places where humans have been able to test the velocity of light. Relative to "them" is relative to the places where humans have been able to test. The need to make many many different types of adjustments, both in a positive and negative way accounting for velocities toward and away from us, is also relative to the places where humans have been able to test.

[nopeda]

There is no adjustment.

If there was an adjustment, there would be no Red-Shift/Blue-Shift. Since we (everyone everywhere) do see the red-shift/blue-shift then there can not be any adjustment, and the only answer is that the velocity of the emitter only affects the energy level (wavelength) of the emitted light. c is a constant (in near vacuum).

There would be no need for an adjustment if there were no red or blue shift because then there would be no combined velocity. Instead there IS the combined velocities of 186K... +/- the velocities of emitters relative to observers. That combination is what causes the frequency shift and imo also a velocity shift, but the velocity is later adjusted by something so that all incoming light arrives in the areas where humans have been able to detect at one velocity relative to the area. Even if that area is the entire galaxy the adjustment must be made. My guess is that light moves much faster outside of adjustment areas, which would account for how it can not only appear to slow down in order to arrive at c, but how it can also appear to speed up in order to arrive at c. Too bad you can't even appreciate the situation, much less how what I described could account for it.

[synchronomy]

There would be no need for an adjustment if there were no red or blue shift because then there would be no combined velocity. Instead there IS the combined velocities of 186K... +/- the velocities of emitters relative to observers. That combination is what causes the frequency shift and imo also a velocity shift, but the velocity is later adjusted by something so that all incoming light arrives in the areas where humans have been able to detect at one velocity relative to the area. Even if that area is the entire galaxy the adjustment must be made. My guess is that light moves much faster outside of adjustment areas, which would account for how it can not only appear to slow down in order to arrive at c, but how it can also appear to speed up in order to arrive at c. Too bad you can't even appreciate the situation, much less how what I described could account for it.

Clearly, you didn't read post #1764.

[nopeda]

time and space are not absolute. Think of them both as being elastic and they "slosh" back and forth between each other.

We think of empty space as being just that, empty. If, indeed, it were empty, then the idea of having 2 points separated by a certain distance would be impossible. If space were "empty", then 2 points in space, by definition would occupy the same location. In order for them to have separation, something must be between them which is space. Space is like a fabric or matrix. It can bend, twist, and stretch.

. . .

if we measure the speed of light from any star or galaxy no matter how far away it is or how fast it is travelling either towards us or away from us, the light is travelling about 671,000,000 miles per hour. The only thing that ever changes is it's frequency never the velocity.

I don't believe in either time or space as physical things. I don't believe there is any fabric of space, and certainly don't believe there can't be distance between objects which contains nothing. There is endless nothing, which is in some places occupied by matter. We can say that the nothing only does and only can end when it is replaced by something.

Since light is emitted toward us by objects that have velocities relative to us, both the 186K... from which the light leaves the emitter PLUS OR MINUS the velocity of the emitter relative to us also have to be accounted for. Red and blue shifting let us know that the combined velocities DO have an influence on the light relative to us. Apparently the velocity of the light is adjusted but the frequency is not. That happens when it passes through glass as well. What adjusts it is what's in question. Since I don't believe time exists in a physical way I don't believe time could make the adjustment. Even if I did believe in it I would still be aware that it could NOT make the same adjustment for every situation which is what would seem most likely IF it did exist and have influence, but instead it would have to make a different adjustment for each emitter relative to its velocity relative to us.

[nopeda]

Clearly, you didn't read post #1764.

Disagreeing with it doesn't mean I didn't read it. Quite the contrary, in fact.

[synchronomy]

I don't believe in either time or space as physical things. I don't believe there is any fabric of space, and certainly don't believe there can't be distance between objects which contains nothing. There is endless nothing, which is in some places occupied by matter. We can say that the nothing only does and only can end when it is replaced by something.

Since light is emitted toward us by objects that have velocities relative to us, both the 186K... from which the light leaves the emitter PLUS OR MINUS the velocity of the emitter relative to us also have to be accounted for. Red and blue shifting let us know that the combined velocities DO have an influence on the light relative to us. Apparently the velocity of the light is adjusted but the frequency is not. That happens when it passes through glass as well. What adjusts it is what's in question. Since I don't believe time exists in a physical way I don't believe time could make the adjustment. Even if I did believe in it I would still be aware that it could NOT make the same adjustment for every situation which is what would seem most likely IF it did exist and have influence, but instead it would have to make a different adjustment for each emitter relative to its velocity relative to us.

I posted an excellent video link, which you can't watch.

I took the time to explain it to you, and you don't "believe" it.

You seem to have developed your own theory on the relativistic nature of time and space, which contradicts current widely accepted theories of physics and cosmology.

It would be of great benefit to you to go and learn about this prior to engaging in a debate.

Edited October 16, 2012 by synchronomy

[+DieChecker]

There would be no need for an adjustment if there were no red or blue shift because then there would be no combined velocity. Instead there IS the combined velocities of 186K... +/- the velocities of emitters relative to observers. That combination is what causes the frequency shift and imo also a velocity shift, but the velocity is later adjusted by something so that all incoming light arrives in the areas where humans have been able to detect at one velocity relative to the area. Even if that area is the entire galaxy the adjustment must be made. My guess is that light moves much faster outside of adjustment areas, which would account for how it can not only appear to slow down in order to arrive at c, but how it can also appear to speed up in order to arrive at c. Too bad you can't even appreciate the situation, much less how what I described could account for it.

No... I get it. You think that there possibly could be areas of the universe where Physics as we know it does not apply the same, so that the emitter velocity can be added to the speed of light and thus have a total speed of c+v. I simply don't believe it because all human experimentation has shown this to not be true. We can bounce lasers off asteroids, or with radar for that matter, and have detected no addition and no adjustment. Thus, the most reasonable assumption is that it is the same everywhere and c is a constant. What you are proposing is only an idea without even existing data or an experiment that can be used to verify it.

What experiment could someone provide that would be proof of your idea?

Experiments have shown that the red and blue shift is directly propostional to the speed of the emitter (or reciever). You would propose that this is true, but that the velocities would also add up on top of that. Correct? How would you explain the red and blue shift, if not with an energy difference, which would be taken from the added velocities? Do the velocities only partly add?

Edited October 16, 2012 by DieChecker

[Myles]

Regardless of what you do or don't do they don't look like they were carved to represent something else and they just fell apart extremely coincidentally in a way that made them all look like air vehicles OR THAT people carved over original carvings extremely coincidentally in a way that made them all look like air vehicles. That's just how it is and always will be unless something changes the carvings.

No-one here believes they ALL look like air vehicles except you. Most of us believe one or two of them resemble air vehicles, but that proves nothing. Just as a piece of toast that resembles Jesus means nothing. Except to you of course.

[nopeda]

Experiments have shown that the red and blue shift is directly propostional to the speed of the emitter (or reciever). You would propose that this is true, but that the velocities would also add up on top of that. Correct? How would you explain the red and blue shift, if not with an energy difference, which would be taken from the added velocities? Do the velocities only partly add?

The frequency and velocity would add or subtract but the energy level would probably remain unchanged imo. If that's the case then that would be how they can tell how the light has been shifted, if it didn't have the correct amount of energy for the particular frequency. The velocity would be reduced when it hits the adjustment area, as it is when it enters glass and water. The velocity is reduced but the frequency stays the same. If what causes the adjustment is large like the galactic magnetosphere then humans have never been able to do a test outside of it, which is what at this point I expect is the case. If light travels significantly faster when outside the adjustment area then even light sources that are moving away from us could produce light that has a velocity which needs to be slowed down in order to be at 186K miles per second. I'm not saying that's how it is, but how it could be. It would explain the situation.

[nopeda]

No-one here believes they ALL look like air vehicles except you. Most of us believe one or two of them resemble air vehicles, but that proves nothing.

It certainly dosn't prove they weren't carved to depict air vehicles. The fact that you can't recognise some as being possible air vehicles suggests only that they could be air vehicles you're unfamiliar with and can't relate to.

[nopeda]

I posted an excellent video link, which you can't watch.

I took the time to explain it to you, and you don't "believe" it.

You seem to have developed your own theory on the relativistic nature of time and space, which contradicts current widely accepted theories of physics and cosmology.

After having thought it through a number of times and concluded that a fabric of space or/and spacetime can not exist, I'm not going to try to trick myself into thinking it might just so I can try to accept your favorite possibility. Not only is it not my favorite possibility, but I don't really consider it to be a possibility at all and never have. That means I have to consider something other than your fabric theory, and your time theory.