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Ryinrea

Trayvon Martin Shooter Still Not Arrested

146 posts in this topic

Not really. The police arrested and questioned Zimmerman. They did not release him. They turned him over to the detectives that night, one of whom filed for charges and were denied by the county prosecutor's office. Now a state prosecutor has taken over the case and the police chief was removed on a no-confidence vote by the town council. Don't forget, Zimmerman's dad is a retired magistrate from Virginia.

It seems like you, 'and then', are either trying to have things both ways, or are slightly uninformed.

True, I know only what the media tells me, but I have seen several outlets mention that 1 detective in the case, whose name was mentioned but I cannot remember right now, did INDEED want manslaughter charged brought against Zimmerman, but that the State Attorney's Office declined that request. That is not an assumption on my part AND THEN, it is a fact, at least according to several news sources.

Whether Zimmerman was actually arrested (he certainly was not charged with a crime) or detained for questioning is a tiny point in the story. He was quickly released and NOT charged, is the point.

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Posted (edited)

It seems like you, 'and then', are either trying to have things both ways, or are slightly uninformed.

True, I know only what the media tells me, but I have seen several outlets mention that 1 detective in the case, whose name was mentioned but I cannot remember right now, did INDEED want manslaughter charged brought against Zimmerman, but that the State Attorney's Office declined that request. That is not an assumption on my part AND THEN, it is a fact, at least according to several news sources.

Whether Zimmerman was actually arrested (he certainly was not charged with a crime) or detained for questioning is a tiny point in the story. He was quickly released and NOT charged, is the point.

Indeed he was arrested at the scene. He's clearly handcuffed. From the police report you can read he was treated by paramedics in the back of the squad car, not at the ambulance. He was taken in and questioned. The lead homicide investigator applied for charges and was refused by the county prosecutor. One felt enough evidence was collected at the scene to press charges and one didn't. He was not released until then. I don't know all the facts for certain, and checking numerous sources gives me the information I do post, so at least some of this is verified information, I'm sure. We'll have to wait for the grand jury to hear the whole story. The press, when using sense, aren't always so wrong.

Edited by susieice

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Agreed!

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It will certainly be interesting to see which men who were administering the system were corrupt. That is, after evidence has actually been presented before a grand jury. My problem is not with the justice system. It is with those who call it corrupt without proof and seem to be demanding that mob justice be substituted instead. That's a pretty slippery slope.

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Posted (edited)

Who is demanding mob justice? I am not. From the outside looking in, and knowing only what's been blasted all over the media last week, I say only that I agree with the cop who wanted manslaughter charges brought.

"Prove" that the system is corrupt???? :blush:

Some folks will not understand corruption no matter what is said or shown. And I suppose it's fair to say that some of us are a bit more perceptive than others, and some of us are in denial about the failure of justice.

For the more perceptive amongst us, this case postively REEKS of corruption.

Edited by Babe Ruth

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Posted (edited)

Bruising from hitting someone or being hit in a fight would happen at that time. Swelling the same. They will be noted in the coroner's report which is from the scene and the autopsy report which should have been done within a day or so. All injuries along with a lot of other stuff will be in them. That will include the condition of blood vessels and any inflamations. These documents will also be admitted in court along with testimony from both participants.

What I was trying to ask is whether a bruise would show up if the resposible blow was made shortly before death. Bruises take time to form, usually a few hours to a couple of days, so I don't see how a body without circulation or an active immune response can bruise or swell.

I suppose a doctor could peel back the skin to show if there are any broken capillaries present, which would indicate an injury subdermally.

Edited by H.H. Holmes

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What I was trying to ask is whether a bruise would show up if the resposible blow was made shortly before death. Bruises take time to form, usually a few hours to a couple of days, so I don't see how a body without circulation or an active immune response can bruise or swell.

I suppose a doctor could peel back the skin to show if there are any broken capillaries present, which would indicate an injury subdermally.

Yes, trauma to the body as occurs in blows will be visible in an autopsy. Bruising is possible as it will bleed and continue to until the heart stops. I saw amongst my research some crime scene photos which I didn't link and now wish I did. There was quite a pool of blood on the grass where I'm assuming they found Trayvon's body. He bled pretty bad so if he was on top, I would think there'd be blood on Zimmerman. Will look for them again. Also, if the shot hit an artery, blood would squirt until the heart stopped. That would also be told by the autopsy.

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Posted (edited)

Who is demanding mob justice? I am not. From the outside looking in, and knowing only what's been blasted all over the media last week, I say only that I agree with the cop who wanted manslaughter charges brought.

"Prove" that the system is corrupt???? :blush:

Some folks will not understand corruption no matter what is said or shown. And I suppose it's fair to say that some of us are a bit more perceptive than others, and some of us are in denial about the failure of justice.

For the more perceptive amongst us, this case postively REEKS of corruption.

So only a dimwit would dare not to agree with the more enlightened of the lynch mob? Your words:

"the SYSTEM failed because of corrupt men administering the system."

This is an emphatic statement as to guilt of persons you have NO personal knowledge of. You are giving in to your personal bias and are trying to blow smoke by questioning the intelligence of others. Weak argument and shaky camouflage on your part.

Also, I never said or implied that corruption was not a possibility, I just did not assume it automatically as you seem to do. That's a bad habit, Babe.

Edited by and then

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Posted (edited)

I want to say that the photos I saw where on the left side of an article that I was reading where Nancy Grace is talking to a neighbor of Zimmerman. That's probably why I didn't post it at the time. They were the kind commonly seen on a local news broadcast after the body is removed by the coroner. You can see a pathway leading to a house with grass on both sides. The crime tape is up across the area from grass to grass and the investigators can be seen. Can't find them now but don't have a lot of time to look right now. I'm sure they'll be shown at the inquest.

Edited by susieice

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This case is being judged by the media, without knowing all the facts.

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Posted (edited)

lost link. hold on.

http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play?p=trayvon%20martin%20and%20nancy%20grace&tnr=21&vid=1759338627313&l=121&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts2.mm.bing.net%2Fvideos%2Fthumbnail.aspx%3Fq%3D1759338627313%26id%3Dc6730f8141858a5dceb6311f7b594312%26bid%3DMsVysvze7cKTtQ%26bn%3DThumb%26url%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww.cnn.com%252fvideo%252f%253f%252fvideo%252fcrime%252f2012%252f04%252f02%252fexp-ng-trayvon-martin-cousin.hln&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2Fvideo%2F%3F%2Fvideo%2Fcrime%2F2012%2F04%2F02%2Fexp-ng-trayvon-martin-cousin.hln&sigr=12ieqrgso&newfp=1&tit=Trayvon%26%2339%3Bs+cousin%3A+It%26%2339%3Bs+him+screaming

HHH- For some reason this site is hard to copy individual vids on. Sorry about that. Go to the strip of vids on top of page and go to the second strip of vids. Look for vid of his ex-coach talking to Grace. At 2:16, you will see a crime scene photo that appears blurry where the body was found. There are clearer ones there somewhere, but you'll see the type of photos it is I saw.

Here's a better vid. The taped off scene seems to be off the road as the police cars are parked on it.

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/04/02/trayvon-martin-shooting-timeline

Edited by susieice

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Posted (edited)

So only a dimwit would dare not to agree with the more enlightened of the lynch mob? Your words:

"the SYSTEM failed because of corrupt men administering the system."

This is an emphatic statement as to guilt of persons you have NO personal knowledge of. You are giving in to your personal bias and are trying to blow smoke by questioning the intelligence of others. Weak argument and shaky camouflage on your part.

Also, I never said or implied that corruption was not a possibility, I just did not assume it automatically as you seem to do. That's a bad habit, Babe.

I admit it's rare, probably very rare indeed, but sometimes the majority (mob) is correct.

I have the same personal knowledge of these events that YOU do sir. You and I are BOTH acting in the role of jurors in the Court Of Public Opinion. We both have heard the tapes, seen the tapes, heard some testimony, etc etc. We both know that at least 1 homicide investigator thought there grounds for charges of manslaughter, and that some prosecutor in the Office of State Attorney invoked the Stand Your Ground statute on behalf of the shooter.

You conclude the man is innocent, even though he has admitted to shooting the victim.

I conclude he is guilty, for all the reasons listed above.

I understand what a charade is, but I do not like to participate in them so much.

Edited by Babe Ruth

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It will be interesting to hear just where this can of iced tea and bag of candy were found. It seems unlikely the teen beat this guy that badly and was still able to hold on to his store purchases.

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Posted (edited)

I admit it's rare, probably very rare indeed, but sometimes the majority (mob) is correct.

I have the same personal knowledge of these events that YOU do sir. You and I are BOTH acting in the role of jurors in the Court Of Public Opinion. We both have heard the tapes, seen the tapes, heard some testimony, etc etc. We both know that at least 1 homicide investigator thought there grounds for charges of manslaughter, and that some prosecutor in the Office of State Attorney invoked the Stand Your Ground statute on behalf of the shooter.

You conclude the man is innocent, even though he has admitted to shooting the victim.

I conclude he is guilty, for all the reasons listed above.

I understand what a charade is, but I do not like to participate in them so much.

When did I say I thought he was innocent? I lean toward him being some self absorbed individual with Barney Fife syndrome. BUT - I get very angry when the race hustlers play around with the safety of my family and community by stoking tensions and trying such a serious matter in the media without all the evidence being heard. I say that even if he had premeditated(which he has not even been accused of) such an act that under our system he is still entitled to due process and a trial free of coercion by the public's whims. We both can agree, I assume, that had Zimmerman been black this story probably never would have been heard at all. Which makes this case not really about Martin but about his skin color and that of his killer.

The way the SYG law is written it seems to favor whoever "feels" their life is in jeopardy. The law is not well crafted enough and this is what happens.

It paves the way for potential racial violence and more federal intrusion into what should be State sovereignty.

You admit that you feel he is guilty while also admitting that the only evidence you've heard is second hand media reporting. If it turns that a jury in Sanford acquitted him of all serious charges in this matter and riots began that harmed you or your family, would you blame the rioters or the jury? Not that it would matter because you would have no redress in either case. This is a dangerous business and needs to be handled by the system because imperfect as it is it is still much better than mob justice.

Edited by and then

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Posted (edited)

Yes, trauma to the body as occurs in blows will be visible in an autopsy. Bruising is possible as it will bleed and continue to until the heart stops. I saw amongst my research some crime scene photos which I didn't link and now wish I did. There was quite a pool of blood on the grass where I'm assuming they found Trayvon's body. He bled pretty bad so if he was on top, I would think there'd be blood on Zimmerman. Will look for them again. Also, if the shot hit an artery, blood would squirt until the heart stopped. That would also be told by the autopsy.

Ok, thanks. I have always wondered about that because it takes time to form a visible discoloration of skin and I would expect the bruising process to hault after circulation has stopped.

I would suspect that the actual subdermal contusions made by the blows is the primary trauma that would be looked for by an autopsy technician.

Please let me know when you get the photos, they seem to be very compelling.

Edited by H.H. Holmes

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Posted (edited)

Of course he's still not arrested. There's money to be made, political appeal to be garnered, ratings to be earned, and draconian laws still yet to be drafted. He may even walk, if he does, think of the ratings! Through the roof.

Edited by Spid3rCyd3

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Of course he's still not arrested. There's money to be made, political appeal to be garnered, ratings to be earned, and draconian laws still yet to be drafted. He may even walk, if he does, think of the ratings! Through the roof.

We are a nation of laws still. If a badly written law forces a jury to acquit then the law is what needs to be changed...and perhaps the lawmakers. And you betcha the ratings will be through the roof. Violence is almost guaranteed in that situation.

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Posted (edited)

We are a nation of laws still. If a badly written law forces a jury to acquit then the law is what needs to be changed...and perhaps the lawmakers. And you betcha the ratings will be through the roof. Violence is almost guaranteed in that situation.

I can imagine the politicos are going to have a field day when this boils over, if Z walks. It would probably be in their best interests if he did. More control could very easily be taken. Our only hope is that those who follow the sensationalism don't buy into it, and then commit subsequent crimes if they don't like the final verdict. It's absolutely wrong for the media to sensationalize things like this. The potential for greater harm and injustice is too high. Zimmerman should be punished for profiling, and harassing the kid (which later led to his death), especially when he was told not to follow him. It should end there.

Edited by Spid3rCyd3

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And Then

I did use the wrong word. Should not have described your view as seeing him 'innocent', but rather, in accordance with the legal lingo, "not guilty". STill, I cannot go there in this case.

I strongly believe in the notion that any defendant, including Zimmerman, is innocent until proven guilty. If and when this comes to trial, I advocate that standard being upheld.

I have read the SYG statute, and have heard lawyers discuss it. Seems to me that Z did not meet the standard the law requires, considering that Z was following the deceased, and other factors as we know them. STill, court of public opinion, for better or for worse.

And I repeat, the reason that this has become a media circus is because the system failed. Homicide investigator finds sufficient evidence to charge him with manslaughter, even after deficient forensic procedures by Sanford PD. Then a prosecutor throws the case out. That is irresponsible, and if any ONE person is to blame for this fiasco, it is that prosecutor.

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UPDATE

Reuters provides an example of confusing coverage in this case. I did a little newspaper journalism many years ago in high school and I know that creating headlines for an article can be an art but this one seems to be saying something entirely different than what the article is about. Or maybe I just don't understand the writer's intent.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/06/us-usa-florida-shooting-idUSBRE8350D520120406

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Sounds like spin to me, from the defense team. Not a bad idea from that perspective.

Blame his murdering ways on what happened to him as an infant. :wacko:

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Sounds like spin to me, from the defense team. Not a bad idea from that perspective.

Blame his murdering ways on what happened to him as an infant. :wacko:

No, you need to read it again. The lawyer is suggesting that Zimmerman could potentially have suffered the same type of head trauma as an infant does when they are shaken. He is supporting the self defence on the basis that Trayvon allegedly was bashing Zimmerman's head into the ground and thereby rattling his brain inside his skull potentially killing him if Zimmerman had not acted to stop him by shooting him.

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That's what we were saying early in the other thread. With any head trauma there is a risk of concussion. If this was the story told to the police and paramedics at the scene, they should have known to seek immediate medical attention. Zimmerman should have told the people around him that he was hurt instead of circling the body as has been claimed by some who were there. Remember, the screams for help stop after the gunshot. I won't be surprised if the police and paramedics are sued by Zimmerman. That's why those initial reports filed from the scene will be so important. What injuries did the paramedics see, what did Zimmerman say to them and to police and what interventions did they make.

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That's what we were saying early in the other thread. With any head trauma there is a risk of concussion. If this was the story told to the police and paramedics at the scene, they should have known to seek immediate medical attention. Zimmerman should have told the people around him that he was hurt instead of circling the body as has been claimed by some who were there. Remember, the screams for help stop after the gunshot. I won't be surprised if the police and paramedics are sued by Zimmerman. That's why those initial reports filed from the scene will be so important. What injuries did the paramedics see, what did Zimmerman say to them and to police and what interventions did they make.

If Z was the one screaming for help then after he got no help fired in self defense there would be no need to keep screaming. Him walking around and around the body seems like the actions of someone in shock. If I had just killed someone and had not been planning it I'm sure I would be feeling a little surreal about the whole experience. It would be a nightmare. He may well have been thinking "what did I just do?", "What happened?".

I hope that if what the Paras report seems to support Z's claims, the whole incident will begin to be discussed more rationally. Too many people are becoming invested in the outcome from both points of view and will be demanding "justice" as they see it. And THIS is why the government at all levels should be attempting to calm the public before the Grand Jury returns their verdict. I think the public should be reminded that we're a nation of laws and that interfering in that process might cost them their own freedom.

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