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Florida Teen murdered by


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I'll do the same. Hit each bolded part.

Yes. If I knew of crimes being commited in my neighborhood by and old white guy, you bet I would keep an eye on older white guys as they walked past. If I was on the neighborhood watch, I would feel it is my responsibility to watch them leave the neighborhood.

How do you know it doesn't fit the mold of a good judgement call? It all depends on what we DO NOT know at this point. People have their own ideas of who looks like a threat to them. Some think if a guy has tattoos all over his face that they should watch their kids a little closer. It's just a persons judgement. I wouldn't trust a guy with a swastika between his eyes. Does that mean the guy is evil? Of course not, but I have to make a judgement call. To be honest, if a black kid walked past my house wearing his hood up, I would watch him. Just like I would expect a black person to watch me walk past his house if I had tattoos all over my face.

That is a significant portion of the population and sure, you would look twice but are you saying you would not make damned sure you had real evidence of wrong doing before pointing the finger so to speak? That is where the line of reasonable judgement belongs. I'm not saying that being charged = being found guilty but it is a miscarriage of justice to not be thorough, there is no evidence that this was dealt with thoroughly, the fact that there is no evidence the kid actual DID anything to provoke the suspicion is a red flag and all the "evidence" that he could have been nefarious in his ways seem to be based on the colour of his skin and the way he was dressed while walking home from a shop - those are not things that should result in someone being killed - do any of us want to live in a world where they are? Do we not want to make absolutely sure that our children or friends/family can't be mistaken in such a way and lose their lives for no definable reason whatever?

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It's wonderful how everyone is judge, jury and executioner. And all without being there or having all the facts.

This is a case of the media telling the public how to think and act and as usual, it's working. Here's an idea, why don't we wait until all the facts are in?

The truth is, so far neither one of these people seems to be a model citizen. Then again, I can only go on what I am fed via news and these days news is no longer trustworthy.

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Coincidence, or are the powers that be trying to keep race on the mind across the spectrum. T.V.

Media uses Twitter/Facebook to their advantage. Now they can just find anyone in the entire country using words they can use to keep this whole entire thing going. Scary isn't it ?

Is Hunger Games movie racist?

More.

Is it not "fishing" when CNN today reported a KKK member had tweeted about Trayvon? What exactly is going on here?

What are we as good sheep suppose to watch next?

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What is the white man's tattoed face is the black man's hoodie. :rolleyes: Don't you think there is at least a slight difference?

maybe a little, but not much really. I imagine the average black person would be more cautious with the tattod face guy. I also think that the average white person would be more cautious with the hoody guy.

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Coincidence, or are the powers that be trying to keep race on the mind across the spectrum. T.V.

Media uses Twitter/Facebook to their advantage. Now they can just find anyone in the entire country using words they can use to keep this whole entire thing going. Scary isn't it ?

Is Hunger Games movie racist?

More.

Is it not "fishing" when CNN today reported a KKK member had tweeted about Trayvon? What exactly is going on here?

What are we as good sheep suppose to watch next?

It is a crying shame that the media gives these morons any air time at all.

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First bolded point - what? So because he was black then? If a white man was known to be committing crimes in the area would you follow every white man too then? That is beyond flimsy as a basis for a "judgement call" - how can you fail to see that?

Also, I don't see a common thread of the random public following "suspicious characters" - maybe you would, I can't honestly say for sure, but it has been my experience that a majority of folk wouldn't and even fewer would call 911 unless they were witness to an actual criminal act or it was the wee hours of the morning and some bloke was standing around on the street staring into people's windows for a significant period of time aka: more than a few minutes.

As to the 2nd bolded part - it is barely Springtime, hardly warm enough to shrug off a Hoodie, none of this fits the mold of a reasonable judgement call - it's really suggestive of something somewhat more unconsciously deep rooted and infamous for causing unjust actions - pre-judgement and biased presumption.

Isn't that what Zimmerman is guilty side is doing also? Pre-judgement and biased presumption? Yet, we damn well know Zimmerman is a racist and meant to gun down a poor defenseless kid. Last I checked, no one in the human race has been proven to be a mind reader unless they were there following him like they do on the TV show Cops, which I have yet to hear about. Florida is known as the Sunshine state and after looking up the temp in the area, it's been consistently in the mid to upper 80's and mid 60's at night for the month of March. I don't know about you, but that's far too warm for a hoodie for my taste. But don't take my word for it, be my guest, wear a hoodie with the hood up with some shades to a bank or convenience store and see how welcome you will feel. There's some stores that won't even let you in if you are wearing those and they have every right to refuse service. I am in the process of getting pictures of the signs to prove it.

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Looks like some mistaken identity vigilante justice make take place over this thanks to Spike Lee;

Elderly Couple In Fear Over Spike Lee Tweet

The mass dissemination of the address on Edgewater Circle in Sanford--the Florida city where Martin was shot to death last month--took flight last Friday when director Spike Lee retweeted a tweet containing Zimmerman’s purported address to his 240,000 followers

However the address is to the wrong Zimmermans whom are a retired elderly couple.

Spike Lee is a real classless act!

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Looks like some mistaken identity vigilante justice make take place over this thanks to Spike Lee;

Elderly Couple In Fear Over Spike Lee Tweet

However the address is to the wrong Zimmermans whom are a retired elderly couple.

Spike Lee is a real classless act!

I am sure there are people trying to cash in on the bounty set by the black panthers... :unsure2:

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Looks like some mistaken identity vigilante justice make take place over this thanks to Spike Lee;

Elderly Couple In Fear Over Spike Lee Tweet

However the address is to the wrong Zimmermans whom are a retired elderly couple.

Spike Lee is a real classless act!

SANFORD, Fla – An elderly Florida couple have been forced to move into a hotel after their home address was wrongly tweeted as belonging to the man who shot teen Trayvon Martin.

The confusion seems to stem from the fact the woman's son is named William George Zimmerman and he lived briefly at the address in 1995.

When William Zimmerman pleaded with the man who tweeted the address, the man responded, "Black power all day. No justice, no peace" along with an obscenity.

LINK

The whole situation reads like something out of the 50's and 60's.... Detestable on both sides of the coin.

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The whole situation reads like something out of the 50's and 60's.... Detestable on both sides of the coin.

I agree, 100%.

Scratch the surface, as this drama has done, and all that is ugly will come rushing out. It's a sad indictment of how far we haven't come.

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There's so much racism being perpetuated it's not even funny.

Of course, there is much deliberation on whether this case is a hate crime..

They can't prove that it is, and they can't prove that it isn't.

Set on fire

I'll draw the comparison's between these two cases.

Travyon Martin case: Murky details in certain points in the case. No discernible evidence to suggest it is a racially charged crime. I don't think Zimmerman thought of shooting the boy at all - until the altercation arose. So, it's probably not premeditated; given that it was dark and Zimmerman was on the way to the store.

13 year old Coon case: The boy is deliberately targeted because of his race - assaulted intentionally on his own front porch; premeditated, and instead of being followed or questioned, is immediately beaten, doused in gasoline, and lit on fire. Where's Obama's comment? Oh wait, I forgot, this boy is white.

But it should not be about race. Justice should not make the distinction of race. It shouldn't be blind, but it should not favor, either.

Edited by Drayno
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There's so much racism being perpetuated it's not even funny.

Of course, there is much deliberation on whether this case is a hate crime..

They can't prove that it is, and they can't prove that it isn't.

Set on fire

I'll draw the comparison's between these two cases.

Travyon Martin case: Murky details in certain points in the case. No discernible evidence to suggest it is a racially charged crime. I don't think Zimmerman thought of shooting the boy at all - until the altercation arose. So, it's probably not premeditated; given that it was dark and Zimmerman was on the way to the store.

13 year old Coon case: The boy is deliberately targeted because of his race - assaulted intentionally on his own front porch; premeditated, and instead of being followed or questioned, is immediately beaten, doused in gasoline, and lit on fire. Where's Obama's comment? Oh wait, I forgot, this boy is white.

But it should not be about race. Justice should not make the distinction of race. It shouldn't be blind, but it should not favor, either.

I don't understand what your link has to do with this. It's to a UK site called DailyMail and there is nothing there about either of the cases you are talking about.

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I don't understand what your link has to do with this. It's to a UK site called DailyMail and there is nothing there about either of the cases you are talking about.

I'll elaborate. The link was broken, but I fixed it if you would like to catch a look.

It's relevant, because the media is perpetuating racism - hailing Trayvon as a martyr.

They're spinning it to make it seem like a hate crime - but there's no way of telling that it is.

The Congressman who got ejected for wearing a hoodie is an idiot.

It's an article of clothing, yet - but they're forgetting common sense. It's hard to discern race, or facial features alone for that matter, in the dark, if the person wearing said article of clothing has their features hidden by a hood. I don't see why everyone is using a hoodie to protest? It's like beating a wood with a piece of wood.

But meanwhile - we actually have legitimate, heinous, intentional hate crimes, and the media does not report on it. Instead, our liberal administration is using Trayvon to further their agenda, people are exacerbating the events that transpired and misconstruing facts with racially charged movements and messages - and if I were to call everyone on this, and say that the kid is not a martyr - say that he was suspended ten times this year, has been disrespectful, and probably instigated the altercation with Zimmerman, I'm a racist and "attacking his reputation." Anyways, I was making the distinction between the two cases; whereas one may or may not be premeditated - and may just be an exacerbated sequence of events. And the other is an intentional, premeditated, and without a doubt hate crime. But of course the one that we know for sure is a hate crime - and much more heinous, is not reported on.

So I'm just commenting on how our media is handling this particular case, and shedding some insight into how it operates; biased, unfairly, and on its own agenda.

Do I believe racist crimes occur? Without a doubt. Do I believe the people involved, who are proven guilty in our court systems, should be prosecuted? Without a doubt. Do I believe race is an issue, and would I like it to see it overcome, and everyone get along? Definitely. But do I like seeing the media spin the facts to perpetuate racial tensions, and have our president - the president of our country, comment racially - adding further momentum to the already exacerbated situation, further charging the racial tensions? Hell no.

Edited by Drayno
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I just saw the first instance of sensibility in this situation. The parents of Martin have asked the protesters to please be peaceful and carry on the protesting peacefully. I respect them for that - even they can see through their grief that this situation is becoming dangerous. The media has been shameless in this and I believe some light of scrutiny is deserved to be shown on them if violence does occur.

They've also put out for the Patent rights to the various Trayvon slogans appearing on shirts and posters and signs. People commiting crimes at your market location are bad for business.

In the case of Trayvon Martin, and according to the Floridan "Stand Your Ground" law, he had the right to respond to what he perceived as a possible threat to his life (a strange heavy-set, older man apparently stalking him) with force, even deadly force. We don't know if Zimmerman confined his actions to simply following. Hopefully, that will be made clear if a trial is held.

However, because Trayvon Martin had the right to respond to a threatening situation with appropriate force, then confronting and even assaulting an aggressive (if Zimmerman was aggressive) stalker was within his rights by law. If you object to that, then blame the poorly founded law which gave Trayvon Martin that right.

They both had that right. And as such, Zimmerman is not immediately guilty of anything.

However, the "Stand Your Ground" law does not grant a person the right to shoot and kill someone else just because they are losing a fight - which they may have even started.

That is true. That particular law does not reference deadly force, yet other state and federal law does and the right to deadly force in extreme dangerous situations is well documented and legal.

And I would recommend you look back through previous pages of this thread to read the transcript of Trayvon Martin's final cell call with his girlfriend. It might open your eyes a bit and dissuade you of some of the rumours you are promoting here.

I'm not promoting rumors. I'm promoting an objective viewing of the evidence and situation.

I read Trayvon's call and it only says he was stopped and questioned. The girlfriend said "why are your following me, and then the man asked, what are you doing around here." She then heard a scuffle break out and the line went dead. So we have to assume either, 1) Trayvon attacked Zimmerman at that point, or 2) Zimmerman attacked Trayvon at that point, as the girl heard fighting.

Not sure if the police report includes if Trayvon had any bruising, or stains on his clothes, but it does include that Zimmerman had head bruises and a bloody scalp and was covered in dirt and grass stains from being on the ground. This evidence suggests Zimmerman was the one on the ground most of the fight, which suggests that Trayvon was the first to strike out.

To everyone participating in this thread. Judging a person by how they dress is exactly the same as judging them by the colour of their skin. It is completely irrelevant that Trayvon Martin was wearing a hoodie.

I am perfectly OK with profiling. Since it works. If Trayvon had simply talked to Zimmerman, or ran off and went back to his car, he'd still be around. It was the aggressiveness of both individuals that lead to the shooting. It is regretable, but not an undisputable crime.

The only fact we know is that Zimmerman assumed the initial role of 'aggressor' by following Martin, and this is apparent from the transcript of the conversation Martin had with his girlfriend on his cell phone and from Zimmerman's own initial call to 911 where he confirmed he was following the youth.

If Zimmerman did walk away, and "if" Trayvon returned to confront him. That makes Trayvon the aggressor.

I have criticised Zimmerman's actions, and I did criticise the Police Dept for their reaction. I believe there is sufficient cause and evidence to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter (but possibly not murder) and put him on trial and then let the truth be found out.

But most of all, I am critical of the law which allowed for this sorry event to have got to this point.

I think there is probably enough to try him. And I think the law should be revisited too. I only fear what will happen if there is a Trial and Zimmerman is found Innocent. Rodney King all over again, but on a national level???

Yet, we damn well know Zimmerman is a racist and meant to gun down a poor defenseless kid.

I was not aware Zimmerman was an open acknowledged racist.

Edited by DieChecker
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CB

Zimmerman knows he is guilty--he's already admitted it.

What he knows is going to happen, or what he's worried about if he's an optimist, is that the 'stand your ground' defense in the statute will not be satisfied. It cannot be met, and therefore the statute is not applicable.

I would like to hereby volunteer, that after a proper trial, to be the hangman. I usually don't support the DP, but in this case it is appropriate. Death by hanging. Or shall it be firing squad, as they did in Utah?

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CB

Zimmerman knows he is guilty--he's already admitted it.

What he knows is going to happen, or what he's worried about if he's an optimist, is that the 'stand your ground' defense in the statute will not be satisfied. It cannot be met, and therefore the statute is not applicable.

I would like to hereby volunteer, that after a proper trial, to be the hangman. I usually don't support the DP, but in this case it is appropriate. Death by hanging. Or shall it be firing squad, as they did in Utah?

proves the point that most people here just want a lynch mob - dont want to wait for all the facts or the truth to come out, they just want a good old fashion lynching. justice be damned.

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proves the point that most people here just want a lynch mob - dont want to wait for all the facts or the truth to come out, they just want a good old fashion lynching. justice be damned.

Wrong. I was not the one who brought race into this. I'm not the one that started all the racist comments. I'm not the one that started trying to make the victim look like the bad guy and blaming him for his own death. Zimmerman followed him after being told the police were on their way and there was no need for him to follow. I don't care what happened before that night with either one. I don't care what they did, good or bad. I care about what happened that night. And I wouldn't care if it turns out this stand your ground law means Zimmerman was justified in killing this young man. What Zimmerman did was very bad judgement and someone died because of it. He should be punished. And I've said it before and I'll say it again. If this were tone of those "perfect families" Zimmerman would be in jail. And if the tables were turned that young man would be in jail. He would have been that night, no questions asked. And he'd more than likely sit there for the rest of his life.

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Maybe I should've put quotes around the statement because that's what I've heard from multiple media outlets and individuals. I was not aware that people can read Zimmerman's mind and certainly shouldn't be judging books by their cover.

They've also put out for the Patent rights to the various Trayvon slogans appearing on shirts and posters and signs. People commiting crimes at your market location are bad for business.

They both had that right. And as such, Zimmerman is not immediately guilty of anything.

That is true. That particular law does not reference deadly force, yet other state and federal law does and the right to deadly force in extreme dangerous situations is well documented and legal.

I'm not promoting rumors. I'm promoting an objective viewing of the evidence and situation.

I read Trayvon's call and it only says he was stopped and questioned. The girlfriend said "why are your following me, and then the man asked, what are you doing around here." She then heard a scuffle break out and the line went dead. So we have to assume either, 1) Trayvon attacked Zimmerman at that point, or 2) Zimmerman attacked Trayvon at that point, as the girl heard fighting.

Not sure if the police report includes if Trayvon had any bruising, or stains on his clothes, but it does include that Zimmerman had head bruises and a bloody scalp and was covered in dirt and grass stains from being on the ground. This evidence suggests Zimmerman was the one on the ground most of the fight, which suggests that Trayvon was the first to strike out.

I am perfectly OK with profiling. Since it works. If Trayvon had simply talked to Zimmerman, or ran off and went back to his car, he'd still be around. It was the aggressiveness of both individuals that lead to the shooting. It is regretable, but not an undisputable crime.

If Zimmerman did walk away, and "if" Trayvon returned to confront him. That makes Trayvon the aggressor.

I think there is probably enough to try him. And I think the law should be revisited too. I only fear what will happen if there is a Trial and Zimmerman is found Innocent. Rodney King all over again, but on a national level???

I was not aware Zimmerman was an open acknowledged racist.

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I wonder what would have happened if Trayvon knew that Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch member.

Neigborhood watch people should be recognizable, just like we recognize the mailman, firemen and police by their outfits. Furthermore, maybe all the power that a neighborhood watch member should have is to observe and report.

(report to police). That's it, and not to follow and confront. And finally, no guns. Simple.

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Wrong. I was not the one who brought race into this. I'm not the one that started all the racist comments. I'm not the one that started trying to make the victim look like the bad guy and blaming him for his own death. Zimmerman followed him after being told the police were on their way and there was no need for him to follow. I don't care what happened before that night with either one. I don't care what they did, good or bad. I care about what happened that night. And I wouldn't care if it turns out this stand your ground law means Zimmerman was justified in killing this young man. What Zimmerman did was very bad judgement and someone died because of it. He should be punished. And I've said it before and I'll say it again. If this were tone of those "perfect families" Zimmerman would be in jail. And if the tables were turned that young man would be in jail. He would have been that night, no questions asked. And he'd more than likely sit there for the rest of his life.

the media is the one that brought race into this. they are responsible for brewing this hatred and the such. why? well, it sells and they probably have some agenda behind them...

and while the whole situation is regrettable, but, i was like you at first. i was outraged towards this zimmerman. but, as the days have gone past and the media continues its blind rant and more and more bits of info leak out, the more and more i have gone to saying that zimmerman should not be charged. what it seems like this whole thing boils down to is a series of unfortunate (and stupid, very stupid) mistakes. both sides acted stupidly and it resulted in an untimely death. to me, that seems like the most likely scenario. but i wont make a final judgement until all the facts are in and i won't be joining these throngs of idiots chanting for a lynching. i believe in justice and truth, not blind rage based on emotions. but again, thats just me.

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I wonder what would have happened if Trayvon knew that Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch member.

Neigborhood watch people should be recognizable, just like we recognize the mailman, firemen and police by their outfits. Furthermore, maybe all the power that a neighborhood watch member should have is to observe and report.

(report to police). That's it, and not to follow and confront. And finally, no guns. Simple.

Why would you think neighborhood watch people should be recognized? They are normal, everyday people that are reporting criminal behavior in their neighborhoods. All that would do is set them up for retaliation. Let's face it...criminals, for the most part, are bailed out within twenty-four hours. It's difficult enough for people to report to the police, and be willing to expose themselves by going to court, what they have seen without putting a target on their backs.

I have been there and done that.

Edited by Michelle
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Why would you think neighborhood watch people should be recognized? They are normal, everyday people that are reporting criminal behavior in their neighborhoods. All that would do is set them up for retaliation. Let's face it...criminals, for the most part, are bailed out within twenty-four hours. It's difficult enough for people to report to the police, and be willing to expose themselves by going to court, what they have seen without putting a target on their backs.

I have been there and done that.

The reason why is that it might be that Trayvon was thinking that he was observed and followed by a creepy person with the intend to hurt him. Might be the reason why he started running. So you think that uniformed neighborhood watchers would have a target on their back because they wear uniforms ? How about police officers ? Or security ? Bounty hunters ? I heve seen them with recognizable clothing.

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