Florida Teen murdered by

[Socio]

Nothing shocking, really.

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/trayvon-martin-case-exclusive-surveillance-video-george-zimmerman/story?id=16022897#.T3O63asV1Ww

Most all security footage has a date & time stamp that can be seen during playback for verification purposes particularly that taken in a police station. This does not, perhaps it was cropped off and really from a previous arrest? I certainly would not put that past the race obsessed, bias as all hell media scum to pull something like that.

The other thing I find odd is that Zimmerman had been described by the same media as 5 ft 9 and weighing approximately 250 lbs, in that video that guy could be 5ft 9 but he is no where near 250lbs, thus might not be Zimmerman at all.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Socio

[libstaK]

I think people realize that this shooting has inflamed passions in people you don't want to be making angry. A law giving people permission to shoot first, ask questions later was bound to do that eventually. The teen is dead. It's too late to change that. One needs to have good sense and judgement when allowed to carry a weapon. A lot of people don't have that, which is why most law enforcement officers don't want armed citizenry patrolling the streets on their own. You're of no help to them.

Yes, I think this is the absolute crux of the issue. Every discharge of a firearm be it by law enforcement or civilian must, as a matter of priority, be thoroughly investigated. In the case of law enforcement, correct me if I am wrong, but is it not common practice to stand down an officer from active duty until the facts are known in such incidents? Is there not an automatic investigation?

For civilians the substitute should be confiscation of the weapon and a thorough investigation, with the proviso of charges pending until complete. Personally, I think manslaughter charges should be automatic and a full court hearing required in every instance a discharged firearm harms another person - there should be a "zero tolerance" approach to protect the innocent from the raft of potential abuses of the law in some way I guess is what I am really saying. Guilt or innocence should be verified as absolutely as possible.

[Myles]

Yes, I think this is the absolute crux of the issue. Every discharge of a firearm be it by law enforcement or civilian must, as a matter of priority, be thoroughly investigated. In the case of law enforcement, correct me if I am wrong, but is it not common practice to stand down an officer from active duty until the facts are known in such incidents? Is there not an automatic investigation?

For civilians the substitute should be confiscation of the weapon and a thorough investigation, with the proviso of charges pending until complete. Personally, I think manslaughter charges should be automatic and a full court hearing required in every instance a discharged firearm harms another person - there should be a "zero tolerance" approach to protect the innocent from the raft of potential abuses of the law in some way I guess is what I am really saying. Guilt or innocence should be verified as absolutely as possible.

Guilty until proven innocent?

There are legitimate cases of someone shooting someone else in self defense. If you were being beaten over the head with a pipe and you had a gun, would you:

A) Just accept that death will come

Attempt to use the weapon. Really it could be a gun, a knife or any blunt object.

What if you are being carjacked? Just give up the car and maybe your life?

There is too much grey area.

[eqgumby]

Read my posts and do not twist my words. I didn't twist yours. I'm really concerned that is what's going to happen if we allow people to walk around the streets armed and not held liable for having to answer charges when they shoot and kill someone. I'm not convinced of Zimmerman's innocence, but I also won't be pulled into a race war or what I feel to be profiling. If a policeman had done this, he would have been put on trial.

I have no desire to be anywhere people can start shooting just because they don't like what you look like or they have it in their heads that you just have to be up to no good. I'd rather make it that 70' to home.

I think the point is, the kid actually attacked the guy, and had him on the ground kicking his ass. That's what witnesses say. Regardless of the reason Zimmerman was following the kid, the kid had no right to physically assault Zimmerman.

Okay POT!! You won't be a party to a lynch mob but you will cheer people on who are packing a gun and shooting people because they don't look and act the way they think they should.

I think the kid got shot because he was on top of Zimmerman beating his face. That's what witnesses say at least.

[eqgumby]

The real crime here, is the media circus. Pictures of the "victim" that are totally misrepresenting, pictures of the "perpetrator" that are equally misrepresenting, a total and utter misrepresentation of the "stand your ground" law in Florida, the initial claims that a "white" man attacked a "black child" without provocation.

What really happened was a chubby Hispanic guy that was a neighborhood watch member and was licensed to carry a handgun, followed a 6'3" African-American walking through a neighborhood he didn't live in at night, called 911, was told to stop following the 6'3" black man, and turned around to head back to his car as he was told. He was then attacked by the 6'3" man, and shot him after calling out for help and getting knocked to the ground and assaulted, because he feared for his well-being/life.

[Wandering]

Guilty until proven innocent?

There are legitimate cases of someone shooting someone else in self defense. If you were being beaten over the head with a pipe and you had a gun, would you:

A) Just accept that death will come

Attempt to use the weapon. Really it could be a gun, a knife or any blunt object.

What if you are being carjacked? Just give up the car and maybe your life?

There is too much grey area.

I agree, guilty until proven innocent is a bit back to front.

If you legitimately killed someone in self defence, the last thing you would be expecting is to be put on trial. Not to mention how messed up it would be not knowing what side the Jury would come down on. We all know they can get it wrong.

[conspiracybeliever]

The real crime here, is the media circus. Pictures of the "victim" that are totally misrepresenting, pictures of the "perpetrator" that are equally misrepresenting, a total and utter misrepresentation of the "stand your ground" law in Florida, the initial claims that a "white" man attacked a "black child" without provocation.

What really happened was a chubby Hispanic guy that was a neighborhood watch member and was licensed to carry a handgun, followed a 6'3" African-American walking through a neighborhood he didn't live in at night, called 911, was told to stop following the 6'3" black man, and turned around to head back to his car as he was told. He was then attacked by the 6'3" man, and shot him after calling out for help and getting knocked to the ground and assaulted, because he feared for his well-being/life.

And where are you getting this information Gumby? I saw no where that Zimmerman was told not to follow and innocently walked back to his truck and was attacked. Are you on some kind of drug? If you have a different information source than the rest of us you should post it.

[Myles]

And where are you getting this information Gumby? I saw no where that Zimmerman was told not to follow and innocently walked back to his truck and was attacked. Are you on some kind of drug? If you have a different information source than the rest of us you should post it.

Where did you get your information? Why the drug references? Since you are harrassing, do I get to attack you like Trayvon did to Goerge?

His view of the story was much more in line with what really happened than what you have been told by the media. Maybe George didn't rush right back to his car, but he did not physically attack Trayvon. Trayvon came back for him.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Myles

[eqgumby]

And where are you getting this information Gumby? I saw no where that Zimmerman was told not to follow and innocently walked back to his truck and was attacked. Are you on some kind of drug? If you have a different information source than the rest of us you should post it.

A friend of George Zimmerman, the man who shot unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Fla., told ABC News today that the voice heard howling on the tape of a 911 call was Zimmerman's, not the teen's.

Zimmerman's friend said that the howls heard on the 911 call, which helped galvanize the nation against Zimmerman, in fact belonged to Zimmerman, not Martin.

A witness who saw Martin on top of Zimmerman told ABC News the same: the pleas for help were Zimmerman's.

The Black Panthers have put a $10,000 bounty for Zimmerman's capture,

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-killing-friend-howls-911-tapes-belong/story?id=15994640#.T3SD9WFCZ14

With a single punch, Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the unarmed 17-year-old, then Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman and slammed his head into the sidewalk, leaving him bloody and battered, law-enforcement authorities told the Orlando Sentinel.

That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326,0,6927332.story

[Michelle]

Okay POT!! You won't be a party to a lynch mob but you will cheer people on who are packing a gun and shooting people because they don't look and act the way they think they should.

I didn't mention the race of any of the people involved. But look...you thought I was talking about a 70 year old white woman and the people threatening her were black or another race.

WRONG!!! The woman is black and the people shooting up her house and threatening her are black too.

And your damn right...if someone is threatening you you have every right to defend yourself with lethal force! I don't know if this woman has a gun, but if she does I support her 100% when they take it too far.

[conspiracybeliever]

Where did you get your information? Why the drug references? Since you are harrassing, do I get to attack you like Trayvon did to Goerge?

His view of the story was much more in line with what really happened than what you have been told by the media. Maybe George didn't rush right back to his car, but he did not physically attack Trayvon. Trayvon came back for him.

No he didn't attack Martin. He followed him and Martin was doing no wrong and didn't know why Zimmerman was following him. If Zimmerman thought Martin was a thug why would he follow him. Did he not think this thug may have a gun or their may be other thugs? Do thugs usually case neighborhoods alone?

[conspiracybeliever]

A friend of George Zimmerman, the man who shot unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Fla., told ABC News today that the voice heard howling on the tape of a 911 call was Zimmerman's, not the teen's.

Zimmerman's friend said that the howls heard on the 911 call, which helped galvanize the nation against Zimmerman, in fact belonged to Zimmerman, not Martin.

A witness who saw Martin on top of Zimmerman told ABC News the same: the pleas for help were Zimmerman's.

The Black Panthers have put a $10,000 bounty for Zimmerman's capture,

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-killing-friend-howls-911-tapes-belong/story?id=15994640#.T3SD9WFCZ14

With a single punch, Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the unarmed 17-year-old, then Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman and slammed his head into the sidewalk, leaving him bloody and battered, law-enforcement authorities told the Orlando Sentinel.

That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326,0,6927332.story

Does Zimmerman's friend know Martin's voice too? And Zimmerman is not a cop. Martin didn't know why he was being followed. None of it changes the fact that Zimmerman pursued Martin for no apparrent reason than he was walking at night.

[conspiracybeliever]

I didn't mention the race of any of the people involved. But look...you thought I was talking about a 70 year old white woman and the people threatening her were black or another race.

WRONG!!! The woman is black and the people shooting up her house and threatening her are black too.

And your damn right...if someone is threatening you you have every right to defend yourself with lethal force! I don't know if this woman has a gun, but if she does I support her 100% when they take it too far.

Show me where I said anything about color because it isn't in the quote. I said look and act. You were talking about a 70 year old woman... PERIOD! Does everyone look and act like a 70 year old woman? How many thugs do you knwo of who are 70 year old woman?

[conspiracybeliever]

Where did you get your information? Why the drug references? Since you are harrassing, do I get to attack you like Trayvon did to Goerge?

His view of the story was much more in line with what really happened than what you have been told by the media. Maybe George didn't rush right back to his car, but he did not physically attack Trayvon. Trayvon came back for him.

And I wasn't talking to you when I made the remark about the drugs so why do you care? Why do you feel you have to defend Gumby?

[Leonardo]

A friend of George Zimmerman, the man who shot unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Fla., told ABC News today that the voice heard howling on the tape of a 911 call was Zimmerman's, not the teen's.

Zimmerman's friend said that the howls heard on the 911 call, which helped galvanize the nation against Zimmerman, in fact belonged to Zimmerman, not Martin.

A witness who saw Martin on top of Zimmerman told ABC News the same: the pleas for help were Zimmerman's.

The Black Panthers have put a $10,000 bounty for Zimmerman's capture,

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-killing-friend-howls-911-tapes-belong/story?id=15994640#.T3SD9WFCZ14

With a single punch, Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the unarmed 17-year-old, then Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman and slammed his head into the sidewalk, leaving him bloody and battered, law-enforcement authorities told the Orlando Sentinel.

That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326,0,6927332.story

Zimmerman's friends - unless they were present at the scene or were in direct contact with Zimmerman at the time - are not witnesses.

The only witnesses we have unimpeachable evidence from, are those who called 911 - the transcripts of whom are in the link Copa posted in the OP. Most of them describe someone in a white top "on top" of someone on the ground, and it is assumed that person in the white top is Trayvon Martin.

No-one except Zimmerman has made a claim about who threw the first punch, or why. No-one except Zimmerman can corroborate his head "was being pounded into the sidewalk". The only person who could corroborate Zimmerman's testimony, was shot dead by Zimmerman.

This does not convict Zimmerman of a crime, but it does mean, imo, the police should have been much more circumspect and thorough with their initial investigation than they were. If they had, then perhaps this sorry affair would not now be inflaming the passions of a nation divided.

Zimmerman may very well be as innocent as he proclaims, but the police b*llsed things up with their apparent apathy to a potential crime.

[Michelle]

Show me where I said anything about color because it isn't in the quote. I said look and act. You were talking about a 70 year old woman... PERIOD! Does everyone look and act like a 70 year old woman? How many thugs do you knwo of who are 70 year old woman?

It was obvious what you meant when you said, "shooting people because they don't look and act the way they think they should."

[Myles]

No he didn't attack Martin. He followed him and Martin was doing no wrong and didn't know why Zimmerman was following him. If Zimmerman thought Martin was a thug why would he follow him. Did he not think this thug may have a gun or their may be other thugs? Do thugs usually case neighborhoods alone?

So your issue is with the George following Trayvon? I can understand that a little bit.

A sepeate issue is Trayvon attacking George and George protecting himself.

Because we all know that following someone does not warrant attacking the person.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Myles

[eqgumby]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/report-witness-claims-trayvon-martin-attacked-george-zimmerman/

A new witness to the Trayvon Martin shooting has come forward, claiming the Florida teen did in fact attack neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman, according to media reports.

“The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: ‘help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911,” he said.

Trayvon Martin was in a hoodie; Zimmerman was in red.

The witness only wanted to be identified as “John,” and didn’t not want to be shown on camera.

His statements to police were instrumental, because police backed up Zimmerman’s claims, saying those screams on the 911 call are those of Zimmerman.

“When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point,” John said.

On Friday night, Zimmerman attorney Craig Sonner appeared on CNN’s “Anderson Cooper 360” and said he client sustained a broken nose and a head laceration on the night of the incident.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-trayvon-martin-case-20120326,0,4845076.story?track=ud

Trayvon Martin case: Martin was the aggressor, police sources say

[eqgumby]

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/26/the-daily-caller-obtains-trayvon-martins-tweets/

Nice tweets too...

sounds like an all-American boy to me...

[eqgumby]

http://now.msn.com/now/0326-trayvon-martin-trademark.aspx?OCID=MSNNow_SEM_Now_10001

Stayin' classy!

[Myles]

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/26/the-daily-caller-obtains-trayvon-martins-tweets/

Nice tweets too...

sounds like an all-American boy to me...

Just a nice little boy

[conspiracybeliever]

It was obvious what you meant when you said, "shooting people because they don't look and act the way they think they should."

Of course it is. I forget you can all of a sudden people's minds.

What's obvious to me is that you are twisting everyone's words around to work to your advantage and that's clear if anyone reads this thread.

[conspiracybeliever]

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/26/the-daily-caller-obtains-trayvon-martins-tweets/

Nice tweets too...

sounds like an all-American boy to me...

Well line up all who aren't the all American boys and shoot them. I suppose these all American boys are the children of the all American perfect families?

[conspiracybeliever]

Just a nice little boy

He wasn't running around the streets at night with a gun playing cop and killing people.

[eqgumby]

Well line up all who aren't the all American boys and shoot them. I suppose these all American boys are the children of the all American perfect families?

I simply presented another side to the case, and pointed out that the media has slanted this in an obvious way.

Your response is not a rational well phrased difference of opinion. I posted an assortment of links to an assortment of news outlets that portray a very different scenario than the one you seem to be clinging to. At your request, after you implied I must be "on drugs" for having an opinion that differed from yours. Which, I don't really appreciate.