Doc Socks Junior Posted April 11, 2012 #576 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Nice, the public pressured the legal system into doing something! We all know how well mob rule works out!! This is wonderful news, makes me ecstatic to hear it. Score one for the mob! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted April 11, 2012 #577 Share Posted April 11, 2012 (edited) Nice, the public pressured the legal system into doing something! We all know how well mob rule works out!! This is wonderful news, makes me ecstatic to hear it. Score one for the mob! As the government should be representative of the people, so should the system of justice employed and the judiciary employing that system. If the Prosecutor's Office are going to charge Zimmerman as a result of public pressure, that is a victory for the people - not the mob. Unless you wish to state for the record you stand for elitism and not representation? In any case, the charge merely means a trial will be held, not that Zimmerman is guilty of a crime. Edited April 11, 2012 by Leonardo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted April 11, 2012 #578 Share Posted April 11, 2012 For the sake of America I hope he runs far, finds a deep hole to hide in and never comes out. The last thing this nation needs is a mock trial to placate the race baiters. It will only end in riots and even more division, regardless of the outcome of the case. Now people think that he's guilty just because they pressured the police into charging Zimmerman DESPITE the evidence. How do you think the people who bought the "***** ass cracker" t-shirts with Zimmermans face on them are going to react if he is found innocent? Probably at the IQ level you would expect from people who would produce and buy such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafterman Posted April 11, 2012 #579 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Nice, the public pressured the legal system into doing something! We all know how well mob rule works out!! This is wonderful news, makes me ecstatic to hear it. Score one for the mob! And when he is acquitted, be prepared for Rodney King Part II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted April 11, 2012 #580 Share Posted April 11, 2012 And when he is acquitted, be prepared for Rodney King Part II. It has me very worried. Our business is in a neighborhood that has been getting worse, with gang shootings and robberies, for the last ten years. A good friend of ours, that happens to be black, asked us to please "tread lightly". He doesn't like what he has been hearing and is trying to be a voice of reason among people he knows. He lives down the street from our shop and told us to call him if we have any trouble. It's nice to know many that many others feel the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted April 11, 2012 #581 Share Posted April 11, 2012 It has me very worried. Our business is in a neighborhood that has been getting worse, with gang shootings and robberies, for the last ten years. A good friend of ours, that happens to be black, asked us to please "tread lightly". He doesn't like what he has been hearing and is trying to be a voice of reason among people he knows. He lives down the street from our shop and told us to call him if we have any trouble. It's nice to know many that many others feel the same. Minus running a business, my situation demographically is similar. Friends of several races and we have been discussing this case. It has the potential to turn very ugly in the larger urban areas simply because the disaffected need only a match to excuse looting and destruction. In the area I live in I doubt it would become widespread but it could cause mischief or even violence. The news conference from Jacksonville is in about 90 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted April 11, 2012 #582 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Minus running a business, my situation demographically is similar. Friends of several races and we have been discussing this case. It has the potential to turn very ugly in the larger urban areas simply because the disaffected need only a match to excuse looting and destruction. In the area I live in I doubt it would become widespread but it could cause mischief or even violence. The news conference from Jacksonville is in about 90 minutes. We live in a very diverse area, but I'm not worried too much about violence breaking out here. Most of the people are very reasonable and know it wouldn't solve anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted April 11, 2012 #583 Share Posted April 11, 2012 UPDATE: Zimmerman in custody, charged with second degree murder. http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-charged-trayvon-martin-killing/story?id=16115469 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bavarian Raven Posted April 11, 2012 #584 Share Posted April 11, 2012 UPDATE:Zimmerman in custody, charged with second degree murder. http://abcnews.go.co...ory?id=16115469 this'll be interesting. i wonder if he's being charged because there actually is evidence against him, or because the mob demands a lynching. eitherway, it'll be neat to see how this turns out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted April 11, 2012 #585 Share Posted April 11, 2012 I would LOVE to ask the prosecutor what changed between the initial investigation where the police were CLEARLY comfortable with Zimmerman's story and now deciding to bring charges. Can they produce new evidence or are they simply caving to public pressure (which i think honestly is more minority pressure than actual public pressure). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurthurBB Posted April 11, 2012 #586 Share Posted April 11, 2012 I would LOVE to ask the prosecutor what changed between the initial investigation where the police were CLEARLY comfortable with Zimmerman's story and now deciding to bring charges. Can they produce new evidence or are they simply caving to public pressure (which i think honestly is more minority pressure than actual public pressure). Well, since the police wanted to charge him too, I don't think there needs to be new evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted April 11, 2012 #587 Share Posted April 11, 2012 He had to be charged because of the mob mentality surrounding the case. That in itself is wrong but it seems to be a fact these days. At least he can't be lynched now without a clear trail of evidence against those who did it. Keep in mind also that the Special Prosecutor did not go for an easier charge to prove. She went the whole nine, second degree murder. That's bound to be harder to prove and could cause an acquittal. One of the articles had some of Place Holder's musings on the difficulty of proving a hate crime. They barely seem to have evidence for second degree and he's throwing around allusions to the hate crimes statute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer77 Posted April 11, 2012 #588 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Well, since the police wanted to charge him too, I don't think there needs to be new evidence. If the police WANTED to charge him based on evidence this would have happened immediately. In fact I clearly recall an Orlando newspaper quoting the PD as saying there wasn't any evidence to contradict Zimmerman's claims of self defense, therefore they were not going to arrest him. Hence my previous post that SOMETHING HAS CHANGED....what is it evidence or pressure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conspiracybeliever Posted April 11, 2012 #589 Share Posted April 11, 2012 If the police WANTED to charge him based on evidence this would have happened immediately. In fact I clearly recall an Orlando newspaper quoting the PD as saying there wasn't any evidence to contradict Zimmerman's claims of self defense, therefore they were not going to arrest him. Hence my previous post that SOMETHING HAS CHANGED....what is it evidence or pressure? Actually if my memory serves me right the police did want to charge him. It was the prosecutor that said no. On the news tonight she said they went over all the evidence and listened to all the recordings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socio Posted April 12, 2012 #590 Share Posted April 12, 2012 UPDATE: Zimmerman in custody, charged with second degree murder. http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-charged-trayvon-martin-killing/story?id=16115469 In cases like this they always charge the maximum knowing they won't get it, but creates wiggle room for plea deals. It will most likely end up manslaughter at best, then out in 5-7 years, perhaps much less, would be my guess. Of course will no doubt be solitary confinement for his own protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+susieice Posted April 12, 2012 #591 Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) Ended up double posting somehow. Sorry. Kept one with the link I promised. Edited April 12, 2012 by susieice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+susieice Posted April 12, 2012 #592 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Well, since the police wanted to charge him too, I don't think there needs to be new evidence. Prosecuting Attorney stated those early reports weighted in heavily on her decision to charge. Under the Florida law, they first had to determine if the homicide was justifiable or not before they could determine the charge. Watched it on TV at supper break. Just got home. Will link. Here's the press conference as I watched it. http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/national_world&id=8617035 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F3SS Posted April 12, 2012 #593 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Anything interesting ever happen with the panthers and nazis national day of action? Anyone know? I'd guess not since I haven't seen national headlines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socio Posted April 12, 2012 #594 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Looks like Zimmerman traded in the two stooges for a real Attorney. Who Is Mark O'Mara? Just one day after his first two lawyers fired him as a client, Trayvon Martin killer George Zimmerman has a new attorney: Orlando lawyer Mark O'Mara. O'Mara also commented on the Martin case last month, telling WKMG that the shooting could be legally justified by Florida's Stand Your Ground Law. He also said that, without witnesses, it will come down to Zimmerman's word without any contradictions. "If you can present evidence or at least your own testimony that (you) felt in fear that he was going to commit great bodily injury or death, that is what kicks in the statutory protection that you're allowed to respond with deadly force," O'Mara said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+susieice Posted April 12, 2012 #595 Share Posted April 12, 2012 They cut off the questions and answers part in the local report and I can't find a link to that part of the speech. Some good questions were asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conspiracybeliever Posted April 12, 2012 #596 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Looks like Zimmerman traded in the two stooges for a real Attorney. Who Is Mark O'Mara? And it doesn't matter if you are basically stocking the person when they "attack" you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted April 12, 2012 #597 Share Posted April 12, 2012 second degree murder n. a non-premeditated killing, resulting from an assault in which death of the victim was a distinct possibility. Second degree murder is different from First Degree Murder which is a premeditated, intentional killing, or results from a vicious crime such as arson, rape, or armed robbery. Exact distinctions on degree vary by state. http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/second+degree+murder I think to proove murder they will have to show that Zimmerman went into the fight with willingness to use his gun to win. Using his gun to save his life is another situation. Murder is killing on purpose with or without intent. I don't believe Z wanted to kill Trayvon. A manslaughter charge would have been a lot easier to prosecute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+susieice Posted April 12, 2012 #598 Share Posted April 12, 2012 http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/second+degree+murder I think to proove murder they will have to show that Zimmerman went into the fight with willingness to use his gun to win. Using his gun to save his life is another situation. Murder is killing on purpose with or without intent. I don't believe Z wanted to kill Trayvon. A manslaughter charge would have been a lot easier to prosecute. A second degree charge does not have to show premeditation. First degree does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted April 12, 2012 #599 Share Posted April 12, 2012 A second degree charge does not have to show premeditation. First degree does. Wanting to kill someone is not premeditation. You can want to kill someone and just spontaneously try and that is 2nd degree murder. If the killing is an accident or otherwise the person did not intend to kill the victim... that is manslaughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted April 12, 2012 #600 Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) Wanting to kill someone is not premeditation. You can want to kill someone and just spontaneously try and that is 2nd degree murder. If the killing is an accident or otherwise the person did not intend to kill the victim... that is manslaughter. As previously stated, the exect definitions vary State by State, but your assessment of what constitutes second-degree murder and what constitutes manslaughter are not correct. In the charge of second-degree murder the accused is aware that death (or another) might be the outcome of a situation, but pursued that situation anyway and intentionally used lethal force in that situation. It can reasonably be argued that, in carrying a lethal weapon into a confrontation with someone he suspected was up to criminal deeds, Zimmerman had to be aware that one possible outcome of that confrontation was the death of Martin. Manslaughter charges usually involve the death of someone through the intentional application of force not intended to lead to death, and where the foreknowledge that death could be an outcome of a situation cannot be shown to be predictable. Edited April 12, 2012 by Leonardo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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