Florida Teen murdered by

[Tata Rompe Pecho]

GZ's intent was not malicious. Whether TM believed it was is another matter.

BTW people run from other people for many reasons. It is not necessarily "a sign of distress". He may have been running because he was up to no good, and didn't want to get caught.

None of those prescriptions are for a chemical imbalance.

Really? Cause running out of fear of being caught is still distress...

http://www.drugs.com/adderall.html

Hmmm medicine for impulse control... on a person with a loaded firearm... sounds legit.

Watch as Zimmerman says he follows, confronts, and reaches for his pocket.. and then is stricken while reaching for his pocket.

http://video.foxnews.../1741832364001/

Yeah Martin was so unjustified for striking Zimmerman... It's not like Zimmerman followed him.. Not like Zimmerman forced that confrontation on him.. Not like Zimmerman said I don't have a problem while reaching for his pocket or anything like that...

Edited June 8, 2013 by xFelix

[+DieChecker]

What "forced"? They were 30 meters from Zs truck 5 minutes after TM started running? TM decided to confront GZ. He chose to be there.

[Tata Rompe Pecho]

What "forced"? They were 30 meters from Zs truck 5 minutes after TM started running? TM decided to confront GZ. He chose to be there.

Yeah he choose to stay where he was familiar... Zimmerman did not turn and walk away... Nope, he approached Martin.

Even the police report says that the incident could have been avoided had Zimmerman not pursued Martin...

Edited June 8, 2013 by xFelix

[+DieChecker]

Yeah he choose to stay where he was familiar... Zimmerman did not turn and walk away... Nope, he approached Martin.

Even the police report says that the incident could have been avoided had Zimmerman not pursued Martin...

His GF said he ran till he was out of Breath. Do you suppose that was 30 meters? He could have ran back to his dads house and back to Z and back to his dads house three times in the time between Zs 911 call started and TM got shot. He certainly was not just hanging out behind the buildings. He ran, hide, then minutes later came back and instigated another encounter.

[lightly]

He was supposed to be a neighborhood WATCH man ... not a neighborhood SHOOT man.

Hmmm Zimmerman was on Adderall?

What should I avoid while taking Adderall?

Adderall may impair your thinking or reactions. Be careful if you drive or do anything that requires you to be alert.

http://www.drugs.com/adderall.html

[Papagiorgio]

Really? Cause running out of fear of being caught is still distress...

http://www.drugs.com/adderall.html

Hmmm medicine for impulse control... on a person with a loaded firearm... sounds legit.

Watch as Zimmerman says he follows, confronts, and reaches for his pocket.. and then is stricken while reaching for his pocket.

http://video.foxnews.../1741832364001/

Yeah Martin was so unjustified for striking Zimmerman... It's not like Zimmerman followed him.. Not like Zimmerman forced that confrontation on him.. Not like Zimmerman said I don't have a problem while reaching for his pocket or anything like that...

You're arguing points I didn't make. I never said TM was wrong for attacking, he may have felt threatened and decided the best defense is a good offense. I wasn't referring to adderall, since right now it's just a rumor the GZ was on adderoll. Z did not force the confrontation, M did.

I don't think GZ's intent was malicious. I don't buy the media hype that he gunned down TM because he was a black. I think it was a bad situation that escalated quickly and got out of hand. And because of that a TM is dead, and GZ is going to have to live with the fact he killed a 17 year old boy for the rest of his life. I don't think either of them were "scumbags" or "criminals". I don't think TM deserved to die, and I don't think GZ deserves to go to jail. Just my opinion.

[+DieChecker]

He was supposed to be a neighborhood WATCH man ... not a neighborhood SHOOT man.

Hmmm Zimmerman was on Adderall?

What should I avoid while taking Adderall?

Adderall may impair your thinking or reactions. Be careful if you drive or do anything that requires you to be alert.

http://www.drugs.com/adderall.html

Personnally, I'd like to see a drug screen to see if Z was under the influence of anything. They use these drugs for miltary aviators to get rest before flying combat missions, so I'm not convinced the affects are long lasting.

TM proponents on the other hand, say that even if TM was high as a kite on Crack, Heroin, and Pot on top of that... I would make no difference to his actions.

GZ WAS watching TM, right up till the point that TM charged him, broke his nose, tossed him to the ground and started beating his head against the ground.

Edited June 9, 2013 by DieChecker

[lightly]

http://www.examiner.com/article/the-prescription-drugs-george-zimmerman-was-taking-when-he-killed-trayvon-martin

MSNBC.com reports that, according to the paramedic incident report, Trayvon Martin's shooter was on the prescription drugTemazepam which is known to cause insomnia and anxiety. Other side effects not mentioned in the MSNBC.com report are“aggressiveness,” “hallucinations,” and other serious symptoms. The U.S. National Library of Medicine cautions that, after taking Temazepam, patients should not be walking around trying to watch anything or anyone and that, if they do not sleep for at least 7-8 hours after taking the drug, they may experience memory loss.

Zimmerman was also on the commonly prescribed drug Adderall, which is known to cause “worsening mental or mood problems (eg, aggression, anxiety, delusions, depression, hallucination, hostility),” according to Drugs.com. Adderall is prescribed for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder or narcolepsy. Both Temazepam and Adderall are medications that can cause problematic side effects including agitation and mood swings.

http://www.chicagonow.com/fresh-n-single/2012/05/this-just-in-zimmerman-had-drugs-in-his-system-too/

Temazepam and Adderall are drugs that have dangerous side effects. According to the U.S. National Library of Medicine,Temazepam, which is taken for insomnia can cause anxiety, hallucination, fatigue, nervousness, dizziness, aggressiveness and hallucinations.

Adderall, which is taken primarily for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, can cause aggressiveness, delusions, hostility, anxiety and depression. So not only was Zimmerman armed with a gun, it's reasonable to assume that he was under the influence of such drugs.

[Myles]

So not only was Zimmerman armed with a gun, it's reasonable to assume that he was under the influence of such drugs.

Which would not have mattered if Trayvon had not attacked him.

[+DieChecker]

So not only was Zimmerman armed with a gun, it's reasonable to assume that he was under the influence of such drugs.

Or maybe we can wait for the medical report at the trial. Before we go saying that someone was on a mind bending Trip.

Note: Both drugs have a side affect description that says, "Can Cause", not "Does always cause".

Temazepam has an occurance of side effects of about 10% of users.

http://www.drugs.com/pro/temazepam.html

Adderall is more serious with over 25%of users have some side affects.

http://www.drugs.com/sfx/adderall-side-effects.html

But all we have so far is the Paramedics report, and from what I remember these guys always say, "What kind of medications do you use?" And they ask you if you take anything to sleep, or for anxiety, or heart/blood. Unless there is a blood test, we really don't know if Z even took his prescription meds that day.

[lightly]

.. All true DieChecker. I just thought i'd bring it up. It may have been a factor? It will be interesting to see what we learn from the trial for sure. Maybe we will learn more about Why the altercation occurred. I just keep thinking that Martin was the adult in this situation.. and it looks like he handled it entirely Wrong.

[+DieChecker]

.. All true DieChecker. I just thought i'd bring it up. It may have been a factor? It will be interesting to see what we learn from the trial for sure. Maybe we will learn more about Why the altercation occurred. I just keep thinking that Martin was the adult in this situation.. and it looks like he handled it entirely Wrong.

I think you mean Zimmerman was the adult.

I agree, that if it turns out Z had drugs in his system, enough to affect judgement, that would be a major factor in his trial.

I wonder if it turns out he was on a sleeping pill at the time, if that might be a defense (like insanity) that could get him off a Murder 2 charge by itself, or contribute to being not guilty on the Murder charge?

I actually don't even know all the charges... I guess I will try to look it up.

[+DieChecker]

Huh....

Apparently the Murder 2 charge is the ONLY charge. That is weird, because if anything happens with that charge, George Zimmerman walks free. It would have been purdent to file accompanying charges of various kinds of manslaughter and neglligent homicide. Not smart of the part of the Florida DA, IMHO. Since... again IMHO, I don't believe they can prove Murder 2, I think George is going to walk. AND... I think the Defense and the Prosecution know that. It is why they were trying to get an Anonymous Jury, where the Jury's names and appearances are not known to the public. They suspect that GZ is going to walk, and were trying to prevent any of the Jury from becoming targets of angry Racists.

[+and-then]

Murder with a Depraved Mind

Murder with a Depraved Mind occurs when a person is killed, without any premeditated design, by an act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind showing no regard for human life.

Obviously they feel they can select a jury they can convince of this threshold. Notice there is NOTHING about "intent" in this Florida code. I wonder how one, precisely, defines depravity in this day and age? If the jury's composition is say, 40% black then that leaves only about 7 or 8 others to convince of the 12. If they are not sequestered then the media will take care of tying the noose. If they ARE sequestered then my guess is that we have days and days of those 8 jurors being "educated" about the "black experience" in America until they simply decide they want to be with their families again and go along with an injustice. I think what GZ did was irresponsible to an extent. I think it would be far more irresponsible to imprison a man for life for a mistake in judgement.

[Tata Rompe Pecho]

Huh....

Apparently the Murder 2 charge is the ONLY charge. That is weird, because if anything happens with that charge, George Zimmerman walks free. It would have been purdent to file accompanying charges of various kinds of manslaughter and neglligent homicide. Not smart of the part of the Florida DA, IMHO. Since... again IMHO, I don't believe they can prove Murder 2, I think George is going to walk. AND... I think the Defense and the Prosecution know that. It is why they were trying to get an Anonymous Jury, where the Jury's names and appearances are not known to the public. They suspect that GZ is going to walk, and were trying to prevent any of the Jury from becoming targets of angry Racists.

I don't know why they didn't try for other charges, but they have something up their sleeve, lawyers always have a pocket ace.

Which would not have mattered if Trayvon had not attacked him.

Which he would not have done if Zimmerman wouldn't have followed him, confronted him, and reached for his pockets during the confrontation...

[lightly]

hmmm murder 2 huh? Yup seems like that would be hard to make stick. I wonder if that was the idea when the charge was made?

[+DieChecker]

hmmm murder 2 huh? Yup seems like that would be hard to make stick. I wonder if that was the idea when the charge was made?

Maybe. Pin an unprosecutable charge on him and nothing else, as appeasement to the Media and the loud outcries of "Unfair!!!"

[+DieChecker]

Murder with a Depraved Mind

Murder with a Depraved Mind occurs when a person is killed, without any premeditated design, by an act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind showing no regard for human life.

Obviously they feel they can select a jury they can convince of this threshold. Notice there is NOTHING about "intent" in this Florida code. I wonder how one, precisely, defines depravity in this day and age? If the jury's composition is say, 40% black then that leaves only about 7 or 8 others to convince of the 12. If they are not sequestered then the media will take care of tying the noose. If they ARE sequestered then my guess is that we have days and days of those 8 jurors being "educated" about the "black experience" in America until they simply decide they want to be with their families again and go along with an injustice. I think what GZ did was irresponsible to an extent. I think it would be far more irresponsible to imprison a man for life for a mistake in judgement.

I agree that I think proving a "Depraved Mind" is going to be exceptionally hard. Without inventing motivations and reading racist assumptions into the facts, there is no evidence of depravity.

What did GZ do, lure TM into his Death Trap by allowing him to bust his nose and bang his head against the ground?

Is this the scenario we are expected to believe....??

GZ... (in his head) "One, two, three, four... bangs on the head. Yeah, that should be enough damage to be convincing..." (flips TM away with one hand while pulling his gun with the other and uses a kip up to get on his feet quickly, then takes careful aim, dispite TMs screams of total and abject fear, and puts a bullet right into TMs heart...)... reaches down and drinks TMs iced tea and eats his skittles...

I just don't see following someone (regardless of the legality of it) to see where they go as being Depraved. This is why I think there should have been a lesser charge, but since there isn't then GZ is likely to walk.

Perhaps the DA thought they could BS GZ into thinking his case was very shaky and get him to Plea Bargain to a lesser charge?? Is so, then they overplayed their hand and they are going to loose.

I expect that if the case is Lost, then the DA is probably going to be replaced real quick.

[+and-then]

I agree that I think proving a "Depraved Mind" is going to be exceptionally hard. Without inventing motivations and reading racist assumptions into the facts, there is no evidence of depravity.

What did GZ do, lure TM into his Death Trap by allowing him to bust his nose and bang his head against the ground?

Is this the scenario we are expected to believe....??

GZ... (in his head) "One, two, three, four... bangs on the head. Yeah, that should be enough damage to be convincing..." (flips TM away with one hand while pulling his gun with the other and uses a kip up to get on his feet quickly, then takes careful aim, dispite TMs screams of total and abject fear, and puts a bullet right into TMs heart...)... reaches down and drinks TMs iced tea and eats his skittles...

I just don't see following someone (regardless of the legality of it) to see where they go as being Depraved. This is why I think there should have been a lesser charge, but since there isn't then GZ is likely to walk.

Perhaps the DA thought they could BS GZ into thinking his case was very shaky and get him to Plea Bargain to a lesser charge?? Is so, then they overplayed their hand and they are going to loose.

I expect that if the case is Lost, then the DA is probably going to be replaced real quick.

If Z walks then my guess is that a city or two may burn. Maybe I'm being a fear-monger but it really is what I see coming. Race in the south is a simmering issue. Add a media fueled rush to judgement and then an acquittal and things will go badly.

[+DieChecker]

If Z walks then my guess is that a city or two may burn. Maybe I'm being a fear-monger but it really is what I see coming. Race in the south is a simmering issue. Add a media fueled rush to judgement and then an acquittal and things will go badly.

It sounds cruel and uncaring... but SO?? History has shown over and over that poor and ethnic rioters burn down and pillage, almost exclusively, their own neighborehoods and workplaces.

Perhaps when the Trial is close to completed, various areas need have their governor call out the National Guard to maintain peace?

[+and-then]

It sounds cruel and uncaring... but SO?? History has shown over and over that poor and ethnic rioters burn down and pillage, almost exclusively, their own neighborehoods and workplaces.

Perhaps when the Trial is close to completed, various areas need have their governor call out the National Guard to maintain peace?

I think it matters because the innocent will burn along with the rest. Also it is a sign that our concept of a true rule of law is dying - maybe already dead. And very bad things will flow from such a realization.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

yea i've read it after, can't edit the post thou, too late.

and that is a good enough reason for Z to follow.

Not after the cops say "stop following him" it isn't.

[+and-then]

Not after the cops say "stop following him" it isn't.

Had it been the cops, I'd agree. It was a civilian employee...a dispatcher... and she only recommended. Bottom line is Z screwed up and should have just let the cops find the guy or not. But once the confrontation occurred and he felt his life was in jeopardy then he had recourse under state law to do exactly what he did. I do not believe there was any premeditation at all. I believe he probably should do some time and this should cause the state legislature to amend this law, possibly. But to put him in prison for the rest of his life - no way.

[Myles]

Not after the cops say "stop following him" it isn't.

So you believe everything the media tells you?

[+DieChecker]

I think it matters because the innocent will burn along with the rest. Also it is a sign that our concept of a true rule of law is dying - maybe already dead. And very bad things will flow from such a realization.

Good point, I'd not considered that so many innocents might be hurt physically or financially.