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Copasetic

Florida Teen murdered by

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thedutchiedutch

Well, if i am walking the streets at night, like Trayvon did, for whatever reason, and i see a guy standing there, watching me, like Zimmerman did, i would be a little freaked out. Zimmerman clearly decided from the start that Trayvon was up to no good and he mentioned that they always get away. This shows that Zimmerman was clearly frustrated and biased. Which makes me think that he was not suitable to be a so called neighborhood watch captain. To make a long story short, Zimmerman snapped. He overreacted and made up his mind. He was not going to let this one away. I don't think this was a race issue but it definitely was stereo typing and Zimmerman should pay for this. For crying out loud, Zimmerman was adviced by the 911 dispatcher not to follow Trayvon. But Zimmerman had to pursue and therefore Trayvon is unfortunately no longer with us.

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Babe Ruth

I agree with what you are saying. Still a crime is a crime and this was a crime. No matter what color anyone was or is it is still a crime and Zimmerman should be punished. I do have to say if this were my child I would be thinking that my child was murdered and they are saying it is his fault. He was doing nothing wrong. He was murdered. And it's the obsession with crime in this country. And once again the real criminal is walking the streets while the innocent has paid with his life. And it's all entertainment to most. Very sad.

Agreed!

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Rafterman

So I've been thinking about this over the past few days and have been wondering why the black community is putting such emphasis on this case when in just my little neck of the woods here in Albany, NY, we've had 5 young black men murdered since the incident went down in Florida.

Yesterday we had a few dozen folks marching through downtown wearing hoodies, carrying iced tea, and skittles. Where are the marchers and the community when all of the others are killed?

It just seems a bit misplaced to get agitated over something that happened 1,000 miles away when it's happened 4 more times in your own backyard. Not to mention the usual cadre of black leaders and even the President is speaking out on this, but yet the day-to-day level of violence against young black men doesn't seem to merit their interest.

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conspiracybeliever

So I've been thinking about this over the past few days and have been wondering why the black community is putting such emphasis on this case when in just my little neck of the woods here in Albany, NY, we've had 5 young black men murdered since the incident went down in Florida.

Yesterday we had a few dozen folks marching through downtown wearing hoodies, carrying iced tea, and skittles. Where are the marchers and the community when all of the others are killed?

It just seems a bit misplaced to get agitated over something that happened 1,000 miles away when it's happened 4 more times in your own backyard. Not to mention the usual cadre of black leaders and even the President is speaking out on this, but yet the day-to-day level of violence against young black men doesn't seem to merit their interest.

Maybe that's what this is all about. Maybe they are using this to bring it to the attention of the public?

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Rafterman

Maybe that's what this is all about. Maybe they are using this to bring it to the attention of the public?

Like it's any big secret?

I agree though they are "using" it - question is to what end.

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Drayno

Like it's any big secret?

I agree though they are "using" it - question is to what end.

Gingrich's response that Obama's remarks were disgraceful was funny.

I understand why the police have their emphasis on probable cause.

They can't technically prove that Trayvon didn't assault Zimmerman.

But considering the circumstances; Zimmerman's perpetuation of the situation by directly engaging in Trayvon, despite not being told to - he is responsible. If he didn't engage, Trayvon would more than likely be alive.

Vigilante justice isn't good justice when the kid lives in the damn neighborhood you're trying to protect.

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susieice

That's the sealer in this whole case for me. Zimmerman followed Trayvon, despite being told not to, and instigated the confrontation instead of waiting for a patrol car to arrive. Anyone being followed by someone they don't know for no reason they can understand would have fought back too when approached. That's not assaulting in my book. Trayvon probably thought he was the one being mugged or jumped or whatever and also went into defense mode. This seems clear at this time from what the girlfriend said he told her on the phone. Vigilantism and nothing more.

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Leonardo

You guys are right.... i rushed to judgement based on things i heard that were not verifiable FACT ..

I can't view, or hear, the video without a lot of hassle.

I heard that zimmerman muttered under his breath on his phone call .. " *****n C**n " and " THEY always get away" .. which is where i got the impression that he might be racist.

I also heard that zimmerman had been charged in the past with assaulting a police officer.. , which is where i got the impression that the man might have a tendency for violence, I don't know for a FACT if that is true either. Anyway... i was wrong to make assumptions based on flimsy "news" statements.

That's a lesson we all should learn.

I'm glad to see that the young man's death is at least being looked into now.. instead of casually brushed aside as a rightful "stand your ground" killing. That bothered me. Maybe there enough laws on the books without making up new ones to make it easier to kill each other?

Several of Zimmerman's neighbours in the gated community have gone on record saying that Zimmerman warned them to be on the lookout for "young, black males", some of whom he believed were responsible for various recent crimes. He had definitely profiled "young, black males" (as a group) as potential criminals and that sound suspiciously like racism to me. This is not to say he identified Trayvon Martin as being a "young, black male" when he pursued him - there is no evidence (afaik) he was initially aware of the colour of the youth's skin.

It is a verifiable fact that Zimmerman was charged with assaulting a police officer, but the charges were later dropped. The reason I read for the dropping of the charges is that Zimmerman plea-bargained to a lesser charge, which did not affect his ability to procure a gun licence. His action of assaulting an officer of the law does not necessarily reflect a tendency to violence but should, of itself, disqualified him from being able to obtain a gun licence.

While you, perhaps, made assumptions about Zimmerman's character based on isolated reports, and those assumptions may be insecure, that does not mean the reports themselves are false.

Edited by Leonardo

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Myles

Several of Zimmerman's neighbours in the gated community have gone on record saying that Zimmerman warned them to be on the lookout for "young, black males", some of whom he believed were responsible for various recent crimes. He had definitely profiled "young, black males" (as a group) as potential criminals and that sound suspiciously like racism to me. This is not to say he identified Trayvon Martin as being a "young, black male" when he pursued him - there is no evidence (afaik) he was initially aware of the colour of the youth's skin.

It is a verifiable fact that Zimmerman was charged with assaulting a police officer, but the charges were later dropped. The reason I read for the dropping of the charges is that Zimmerman plea-bargained to a lesser charge, which did not affect his ability to procure a gun licence. His action of assaulting an officer of the law does not necessarily reflect a tendency to violence but should, of itself, disqualified him from being able to obtain a gun licence.

While you, perhaps, made assumptions about Zimmerman's character based on isolated reports, and those assumptions may be insecure, that does not mean the reports themselves are false.

I'd like to know if there were any crimes in the area where the suspects were reported as young black men.

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lightly

Several of Zimmerman's neighbours in the gated community have gone on record saying that Zimmerman warned them to be on the lookout for "young, black males", some of whom he believed were responsible for various recent crimes. He had definitely profiled "young, black males" (as a group) as potential criminals and that sound suspiciously like racism to me. This is not to say he identified Trayvon Martin as being a "young, black male" when he pursued him - there is no evidence (afaik) he was initially aware of the colour of the youth's skin.

It is a verifiable fact that Zimmerman was charged with assaulting a police officer, but the charges were later dropped. The reason I read for the dropping of the charges is that Zimmerman plea-bargained to a lesser charge, which did not affect his ability to procure a gun licence. His action of assaulting an officer of the law does not necessarily reflect a tendency to violence but should, of itself, disqualified him from being able to obtain a gun licence.

While you, perhaps, made assumptions about Zimmerman's character based on isolated reports, and those assumptions may be insecure, that does not mean the reports themselves are false.

Thanks Leonardo, i was trying to smooth feathers i had ruffled by calling Zimmerman a racist, without irrefutable proof. I believe Zimmerman does use the descriptor "black male" in his call to police? ( According to a news report i saw on the matter... can someone verify that? )

I also called Zimmerman a fool.. though most likely an incomplete fool, i think i'll stick with my instincts on that one.

*

Edited by lightly

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Rafterman

Gingrich's response that Obama's remarks were disgraceful was funny.

I understand why the police have their emphasis on probable cause.

They can't technically prove that Trayvon didn't assault Zimmerman.

But considering the circumstances; Zimmerman's perpetuation of the situation by directly engaging in Trayvon, despite not being told to - he is responsible. If he didn't engage, Trayvon would more than likely be alive.

Vigilante justice isn't good justice when the kid lives in the damn neighborhood you're trying to protect.

And that's fine. If Zimmerman is guilty he should face the same justice system that any of us would face.

But as it's playing out, it seems that facts are the furthest thing from may folks' minds right now.

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Leonardo

And that's fine. If Zimmerman is guilty he should face the same justice system that any of us would face.

But as it's playing out, it seems that facts are the furthest thing from may folks' minds right now.

I would suggest otherwise, that it is "the facts" that many people are trying to ascertain.

Edited by Leonardo

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Myles

I would suggest otherwise, that it is "the facts" that many people are trying to ascertain.

I think many peoples emotions and the race card have played into this. Like I said earlier, before I started looking into this, I though an older white guy killed a little black kid. I wonder how much of the evidence has been released to the public.

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Rafterman

I would suggest otherwise, that it is "the facts" that many people are trying to ascertain.

So if, in the end, the shooting was deemed justifiable under Florida self-defense law, you really think everyone is going to be OK with that?

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DoesntReallyLike

I heard about this today:

New Black Panther Party Offers $10,000 Bounty for George Zimmerman

This is what I was addressing earlier this thread, this is why people need to let the legal system do it's job and not try people in the court of public opinion.

If he ends up getting shot I hope due credit for this lynch mob will be given to Obama and Eric Holder and Fat Al Chumpton and all the others who felt the need to chime in on this.

It's messed up when racists think they can take the law into their own hands ( I was talking about Zimmerman of course )

( Nice job to our leaders on easing racial tensions by the way, MLK would be proud :no: )

Edited by Illuminerdi

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Leonardo

I think many peoples emotions and the race card have played into this. Like I said earlier, before I started looking into this, I though an older white guy killed a little black kid. I wonder how much of the evidence has been released to the public.

There is some justification to the current belief some entertain that there was an element of racism in the tragedy. Just because Zimmerman identifies himself ethnically as 'Hispanic' does not disqualify him from possibly being racist. I accept there is/was a common (mis)perception, in this case, that the allegations of racist behaviour meant Zimmerman was white, possibly also because his name is not usually associated with a person of Hispanic descent, but that is by-the-by.

So if, in the end, the shooting was deemed justifiable under Florida self-defense law, you really think everyone is going to be OK with that?

In my opinion the shooting cannot be justifiable under the "Stand your Ground" law, because Zimmerman pursued Martin. However, if the courts find insufficient cause to prosecute Zimmerman then the public will have to focus their sense of injustice on the poorly conceived 'law' that led to this killing becoming a debate in the first place.

I do not think everyone will be 'ok' with Zimmerman walking free, but that is irrelevant to the point I made to contradict yours - that people are, in the main, attempting to ascertain for themselves the facts of what actually happened.

Edited by Leonardo

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Farmer77

Now those interested in the "facts" have produced T-shirts in support of Treyvon My link

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Rafterman

I do not think everyone will be 'ok' with Zimmerman walking free, but that is irrelevant to the point I made to contradict yours - that people are, in the main, attempting to ascertain for themselves the facts of what actually happened.

You mean like this guy?

post-106978-0-01142400-1332785610_thumb.

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Myles

Now those interested in the "facts" have produced T-shirts in support of Treyvon My link

Yep, nothing raqcist there.

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Drayno

And that's fine. If Zimmerman is guilty he should face the same justice system that any of us would face.

But as it's playing out, it seems that facts are the furthest thing from may folks' minds right now.

Race seems to be the primary issue, of course.

Obama seems to be marginalizing off of the popularity of this issue.. It is election year, so that sounds about right.

@ Leo -Indeed, people are trying to comprehend the facts.

In a situation like this, especially when you have one living witness, then facts are hard to decipher from fiction.

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sam12six

His action of assaulting an officer of the law does not necessarily reflect a tendency to violence but should, of itself, disqualified him from being able to obtain a gun licence.

I disagree that the simple charge, later dropped, of assaulting a police officer should be grounds for never being able to own a CC license. Though details of the incident are even sketchier than those surrounding the Zimmerman/Martin situation, the gist is that his friend was being arrested and he supposedly "pushed" the cop. We don't know if that means he put his hand on the guy's shoulder and asked if tazing someone 14 times wasn't a little excessive (obviously, we don't know for certain that he didn't aggressively push the cop for no reason, but I seriously doubt they would have dropped charges if he had).

I'm pretty convinced that your average cop would happily charge you with assault if you tried to break his toes with your genitals as you lay on the ground in handcuffs (I wonder, if that happened to a porn star, would it be attempted murder the way a karate black belt might be charged with attempted murder for a fight?).

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Myles

I disagree that the simple charge, later dropped, of assaulting a police officer should be grounds for never being able to own a CC license. Though details of the incident are even sketchier than those surrounding the Zimmerman/Martin situation, the gist is that his friend was being arrested and he supposedly "pushed" the cop. We don't know if that means he put his hand on the guy's shoulder and asked if tazing someone 14 times wasn't a little excessive (obviously, we don't know for certain that he didn't aggressively push the cop for no reason, but I seriously doubt they would have dropped charges if he had).

I'm pretty convinced that your average cop would happily charge you with assault if you tried to break his toes with your genitals as you lay on the ground in handcuffs (I wonder, if that happened to a porn star, would it be attempted murder the way a karate black belt might be charged with attempted murder for a fight?).

It would have to be registered as a deadly weapon. :w00t:

I know a guy (not real well) that had a 16 year old girlfriend when he was 18. Things went bad (not violent) and now he has been a registered sex offender for 7-8 years. He's a good kid too. I don't find it fair, but it is what it is. The thing is, until it is multiple charges, you have to take some arrests with a grain of salt. Protect yourself and your loved ones, but be careful about forming judgements.

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Myles

I also don't put too much into the fact that Trayvon was recently suspended from school for bringing pot to school.

It may point to Trayvon not being the innocent candy loving boy we have been told about. But it doesn't mean he was a criminal either.

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Rafterman

$abrina Fulton, Treymon Martin'$ mom has apparently trademarked digital material$, namely, CD$ and DVD$ featuring Trayvon Martin and the phra$e$ “I Am Trayvon” and “Ju$tice for Trayvon,”

Just exactly what I would do if my son were gunned down in cold blood.

cha-ching.

http://weaselzippers.us/2012/03/26/mother-of-trayvon-martin-files-paperwork-to-trademark-dead-sons-name/

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sam12six

It would have to be registered as a deadly weapon. :w00t:

I know a guy (not real well) that had a 16 year old girlfriend when he was 18. Things went bad (not violent) and now he has been a registered sex offender for 7-8 years. He's a good kid too. I don't find it fair, but it is what it is. The thing is, until it is multiple charges, you have to take some arrests with a grain of salt. Protect yourself and your loved ones, but be careful about forming judgements.

I have problems with the sex offender list... not that it exists, but for the sheer number of crimes that qualify someone for that lifelong legal stigma. I've heard tons of stories like what you're describing or someone who chose to pee in the wrong place. I've even read one story about how a guy was in jail for something minor (possession, in all likelihood) and chose to *AHEM* relieve sexual tension in the privacy of his solitary cell. Well, they had cameras for the cops to watch the prisoners and a female guard charged him with lewd conduct and it earned him a trip straight to the list.

Anyway, my point was just that I've never heard of a cop backing down on an assaulting an officer charge if the case had any merit at all, so since the charges were dropped (even in exchange for a plea on lesser charges), the sheer fact that the charge once existed shouldn't result in someone being treated as if he had been convicted.

I also don't put too much into the fact that Trayvon was recently suspended from school for bringing pot to school.

It may point to Trayvon not being the innocent candy loving boy we have been told about. But it doesn't mean he was a criminal either.

I doubt that Martin was either an angel or demon. Most normal teenagers fall squarely in the middle. Even if he were the worst scum known to man though, it wouldn't change what happened in THIS case.

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