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Florida Teen murdered by


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From what I've read of articles and online posts from real Florida Police officers, 911 operators are not Law Enforcement and there is no requirement to obey them.

http://www.realpolic...1-dispatch.html

Murder is usually defined as...

Murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human, and generally this premeditated state of mind distinguishes murder from other forms of unlawful homicide (such as manslaughter).

So unless a premeditation can be shown, murder is off the table. You can't walk up to someone and then decide to murder them spontaneously. That is Manslaughter.

Manslaughter is usually defined as...

Involuntary manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice aforethought, either express or implied. It is distinguished from voluntary manslaughter by the absence of intention.

So at best Z is looking at Manslaughter unless some kind of premeditation can be found.

The GirlFriend phone call by M seems pretty clear that M and Z were talking, and that M decided to cease trying to get away. Also during the call with the GF there is no statement by the GF that Z was trying to kill M.

What is clear is that Z wanted M to being questioned by the police. He was following M, not hunting him. If Z wanted to simply kill someone, he should not have called the police before doing so. The evidence actually supports that Z only wanted M to answer questions.

That is true, but there is proof M knew Z was armed. There is no proof M knew Z wanted to hurt him. There is no proof M could not get away. (He was living just a few doors down after all.) There is actually no proof at all to support your story, other then a bunch of "What if" statements.

Sure. Did Z have a gun in his hand? Did Z throw the first punch? What proof is there?

Ok let's start off by saying YES.. Police Dispatch IS law enforcement in the state of Florida.

Next up, let's address your misinformation.

This is the call that Zimmerman placed, where his encounter specifically stated as per Zimmerman started while Martin was "walking around just looking"

He says "these *******s always get away", then illegally engages a fleeing victim, and when he is told to stop his pursuit he completely ignores the request. This demonstrates that he had no intention of letting him get away.

So even with your interpretation of Murder, it is clear there was malice aforethought. In the State of Florida, Murder is not defined that way and I clearly already quoted the law saying that it is defined differently.

Now to the claim that they were talking, did you hear them talking? Nope.

The teen was walking, saw a man staring at him, came closer to see what was going on and for whatever reason, decided to flee.

[media=]

Clearly, you can hear where the teen is screaming for help.. HOW is someone screaming for help, half your size, unarmed a threat to your life or great bodily harm?

He is not. Zimmerman firing his weapon did so, without reason and illegally. He fired a single shot, while he could have shot at the victim's leg or arms, he decided that a single execution style shot that would instantly kill his victim was necessary. Mind you this is what you do not understand: He chased the victim down, without legal grounds to do so(aggravated assault), then physically engages the victim(battery, doesn't matter who threw the first punch), the victim defends himself while screaming for help(The pictures show that the victim tried to defend himself), Zimmerman then executes him(Single shot that instantly ended his life).

Now as for who threw the first punch, that is completely irrelevant information because the engagement started when Zimmerman acted out a threat to physically harm Martin by giving chase after Martin had turned his back and started fleeing. The threat was possible because given a physical altercation Zimmerman was a 240lb man, and Martin was a 140lb boy, which indicates that Zimmerman could have easily stricken the kid and caused massive damage even upwards of death with his bare hands.

In the second call you hear the boy screaming for help, and not a single thing from Zimmerman. There is nothing he wished to say, not "Stop fighting me", not "Just give up", not even "Freeze!"... He just pulled his firearm and without any warning executed a teen that was screaming for help.

Again I have to stress the reasoning for Martin to stop fleeing is unimportant. He had no duty to retreat.

When he stood his ground and defended himself against a larger male who was chasing him, he did so with non lethal force.

When was Zimmerman's life in danger? In between the screams for help from the smaller male who attempted to defend himself with his own hands? Zimmerman could have easily overpowered his much smaller victim. He chose not to do so, instead executing him is better.

http://www.fightauthority.com/fighting-arts-forums/hand-to-hand-combat-forum/how-much-does-the-size-of-an-opponent-affect-a-fight/

Those are the facts and according to the facts, Zimmerman is guilty of aggravated assault, aggravated battery, and MURDER of a minor.

Edited by xFelix
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Ok let's start off by saying YES.. Police Dispatch IS law enforcement in the state of Florida.

Next up, let's address your misinformation.

This is the call that Zimmerman placed, where his encounter specifically stated as per Zimmerman started while Martin was "walking around just looking"

He says "these *******s always get away", then illegally engages a fleeing victim, and when he is told to stop his pursuit he completely ignores the request. This demonstrates that he had no intention of letting him get away.

So even with your interpretation of Murder, it is clear there was malice aforethought. In the State of Florida, Murder is not defined that way and I clearly already quoted the law saying that it is defined differently.

Now to the claim that they were talking, did you hear them talking? Nope.

The teen was walking, saw a man staring at him, came closer to see what was going on and for whatever reason, decided to flee.

[media=]

Clearly, you can hear where the teen is screaming for help.. HOW is someone screaming for help, half your size, unarmed a threat to your life or great bodily harm?

He is not. Zimmerman firing his weapon did so, without reason and illegally. He fired a single shot, while he could have shot at the victim's leg or arms, he decided that a single execution style shot that would instantly kill his victim was necessary. Mind you this is what you do not understand: He chased the victim down, without legal grounds to do so(aggravated assault), then physically engages the victim(battery, doesn't matter who threw the first punch), the victim defends himself while screaming for help(The pictures show that the victim tried to defend himself), Zimmerman then executes him(Single shot that instantly ended his life).

Now as for who threw the first punch, that is completely irrelevant information because the engagement started when Zimmerman acted out a threat to physically harm Martin by giving chase after Martin had turned his back and started fleeing. The threat was possible because given a physical altercation Zimmerman was a 240lb man, and Martin was a 140lb boy, which indicates that Zimmerman could have easily stricken the kid and caused massive damage even upwards of death with his bare hands.

In the second call you hear the boy screaming for help, and not a single thing from Zimmerman. There is nothing he wished to say, not "Stop fighting me", not "Just give up", not even "Freeze!"... He just pulled his firearm and without any warning executed a teen that was screaming for help.

Again I have to stress the reasoning for Martin to stop fleeing is unimportant. He had no duty to retreat.

When he stood his ground and defended himself against a larger male who was chasing him, he did so with non lethal force.

When was Zimmerman's life in danger? In between the screams for help from the smaller male who attempted to defend himself with his own hands? Zimmerman could have easily overpowered his much smaller victim. He chose not to do so, instead executing him is better.

http://www.fightauthority.com/fighting-arts-forums/hand-to-hand-combat-forum/how-much-does-the-size-of-an-opponent-affect-a-fight/

Those are the facts and according to the facts, Zimmerman is guilty of aggravated assault, aggravated battery, and MURDER of a minor.

So you are using the old small kid pic of Trayvon too. Nice.

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So you are using the old small kid pic of Trayvon too. Nice.

Semantic?

Trayvon Martin was 17 years old, 140lbs. (He was a kid legally according to his age)

George Zimmerman was 28 years old, 240lbs.

Yes he was an adult, who decided to threaten, chase and then physically attack a much smaller minor, who then tried to defend himself and screamed for help. The adult then fired a single round at the minor ending his life instantly..

I guess I can see where i'm using Semantics? It's not like the law clearly said he was not an adult therefor he was a minor or child...

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Ok let's start off by saying YES.. Police Dispatch IS law enforcement in the state of Florida.

Next up, let's address your misinformation.

This is the call that Zimmerman placed, where his encounter specifically stated as per Zimmerman started while Martin was "walking around just looking"

He says "these *******s always get away", then illegally engages a fleeing victim, and when he is told to stop his pursuit he completely ignores the request. This demonstrates that he had no intention of letting him get away.

So even with your interpretation of Murder, it is clear there was malice aforethought. In the State of Florida, Murder is not defined that way and I clearly already quoted the law saying that it is defined differently.

Now to the claim that they were talking, did you hear them talking? Nope.

The teen was walking, saw a man staring at him, came closer to see what was going on and for whatever reason, decided to flee.

[media=]

Clearly, you can hear where the teen is screaming for help.. HOW is someone screaming for help, half your size, unarmed a threat to your life or great bodily harm?

He is not. Zimmerman firing his weapon did so, without reason and illegally. He fired a single shot, while he could have shot at the victim's leg or arms, he decided that a single execution style shot that would instantly kill his victim was necessary. Mind you this is what you do not understand: He chased the victim down, without legal grounds to do so(aggravated assault), then physically engages the victim(battery, doesn't matter who threw the first punch), the victim defends himself while screaming for help(The pictures show that the victim tried to defend himself), Zimmerman then executes him(Single shot that instantly ended his life).

Now as for who threw the first punch, that is completely irrelevant information because the engagement started when Zimmerman acted out a threat to physically harm Martin by giving chase after Martin had turned his back and started fleeing. The threat was possible because given a physical altercation Zimmerman was a 240lb man, and Martin was a 140lb boy, which indicates that Zimmerman could have easily stricken the kid and caused massive damage even upwards of death with his bare hands.

In the second call you hear the boy screaming for help, and not a single thing from Zimmerman. There is nothing he wished to say, not "Stop fighting me", not "Just give up", not even "Freeze!"... He just pulled his firearm and without any warning executed a teen that was screaming for help.

Again I have to stress the reasoning for Martin to stop fleeing is unimportant. He had no duty to retreat.

When he stood his ground and defended himself against a larger male who was chasing him, he did so with non lethal force.

When was Zimmerman's life in danger? In between the screams for help from the smaller male who attempted to defend himself with his own hands? Zimmerman could have easily overpowered his much smaller victim. He chose not to do so, instead executing him is better.

http://www.fightauthority.com/fighting-arts-forums/hand-to-hand-combat-forum/how-much-does-the-size-of-an-opponent-affect-a-fight/

Those are the facts and according to the facts, Zimmerman is guilty of aggravated assault, aggravated battery, and MURDER of a minor.

Just a couple things...

Z was not told to "stop". The dispatch said "we do not need you to do that" (follow)

'Size' You say half his size but in actuality Z was 5'7" M was 5'11"

M had damage to his knuckles. Z had damage to his face and head.

Those are the facts and according to the facts, Zimmerman is guilty of aggravated assault, aggravated battery, and MURDER of a minor.

But those were not the facts.

Much of what you proclaim is blatantly wrong or very speculative. I am curious however. Why are you so clearly bias about this? Why make changes to dispatch records to show a command to stop or size and then ignore damage to each? You know... even with the evidence that is known I, personally, am not gonna make a definite call without being on the actual jury and hearing/seeing it all for myself.

Why are you dead set on declaring Z guilty when much of the publicly known evidence seems to point to the contrary?

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Semantic?

Trayvon Martin was 17 years old, 140lbs. (He was a kid legally according to his age)

George Zimmerman was 28 years old, 240lbs.

Yes he was an adult, who decided to threaten, chase and then physically attack a much smaller minor, who then tried to defend himself and screamed for help. The adult then fired a single round at the minor ending his life instantly..

I guess I can see where i'm using Semantics? It's not like the law clearly said he was not an adult therefor he was a minor or child...

Booking info shows Z being 5'8" 185 lbs.

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/dam/news/static/cfnews13/documents/george-zimmerman-booking-report-0412.pdf

Autopsy info shows M at 5' 11" 158 lbs

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/images/05/17/trayvon.martin.autopsy.pdf

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Just a couple things...

Z was not told to "stop". The dispatch said "we do not need you to do that" (follow)

'Size' You say half his size but in actuality Z was 5'7" M was 5'11"

M had damage to his knuckles. Z had damage to his face and head.

But those were not the facts.

Much of what you proclaim is blatantly wrong or very speculative. I am curious however. Why are you so clearly bias about this? Why make changes to dispatch records to show a command to stop or size and then ignore damage to each? You know... even with the evidence that is known I, personally, am not gonna make a definite call without being on the actual jury and hearing/seeing it all for myself.

Why are you dead set on declaring Z guilty when much of the publicly known evidence seems to point to the contrary?

"We do not need you to do that" is him being told that his pursuit is unnecessary, or in other words... stop. <-- stating otherwise is Semantics.

4 inches in height vs almost twice the weight... You think that a skinny person only 4 inches taller poses a threat to someone only 4 inches shorter but 100lbs heavier?

4 inches in height mean at most an inch in reach, where 100lbs in weight difference means that hits are much more devastating.

Damage to M's knuckles and Z's head injuries are consistent with M using his right to stand his ground and meet force with force in his self-preservation.

Using deadly force on someone screaming "HELP!" is just as ridiculous as you saying that the voice recordings are either wrong or speculations.

The recordings do not lie, he hunted down someone who decided that they wanted no part in an altercation... His injuries were obtained because he illegally engaged someone and they stood their ground to defend themselves. (Again you can hear the minor screaming for help, attackers do not scream for help.)

Why does everyone keep saying "but his face", are we not even arguing the law anymore?

The law clearly says if you are attacked by someone you have the right to defend yourself. Martin attempted to defend himself from someone that had 100lbs on him, and a gun.

The law clearly says that if you may only use deadly force if you are in danger of death or great bodily harm.

Zimmerman would have been in no danger at all if he wouldn't have committed an aggravated assault which lead to the victim standing their ground.

His firing of a weapon at a person screaming for help, was not him standing his ground.

The only issue here is politics, not law.

Why am I so interested in the subject?

I am a Florida resident, and gun owner. You can come with your politics all you want, but I know the Florida Statutes, and I know that anywhere else in this State Zimmerman would have been convicted by now... Miami-Dade and Broward Sheriffs have both already stated that this is a far cry from a difficult case, this is a really simple case. He fired his weapon at someone screaming for help, the end.

Edited by xFelix
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Where are you getting twice the weight?

Where is the proof that it is M screaming?

If someone was "hunting" why call the cops?

There is tons of speculation in your post.

If this is a simple case he would have been immediately charged and the trial would have been over...

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In fact, he was told to abandon the pursuit, and he did not cooperate, he continued the chase in order to engage his victim.

That is not true. You should not post what is untrue.

The dispatcher said we don't need you to follow him. That is not the same as "do not follow him".

My mom told me I didn't need to buy her flowers for mothers day. I did anyway.

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"We do not need you to do that" is him being told that his pursuit is unnecessary, or in other words... stop. <-- stating otherwise is Semantics.

4 inches in height vs almost twice the weight... You think that a skinny person only 4 inches taller poses a threat to someone only 4 inches shorter but 100lbs heavier?

4 inches in height mean at most an inch in reach, where 100lbs in weight difference means that hits are much more devastating.

Damage to M's knuckles and Z's head injuries are consistent with M using his right to stand his ground and meet force with force in his self-preservation.

Using deadly force on someone screaming "HELP!" is just as ridiculous as you saying that the voice recordings are either wrong or speculations.

The recordings do not lie, he hunted down someone who decided that they wanted no part in an altercation... His injuries were obtained because he illegally engaged someone and they stood their ground to defend themselves. (Again you can hear the minor screaming for help, attackers do not scream for help.)

Why does everyone keep saying "but his face", are we not even arguing the law anymore?

The law clearly says if you are attacked by someone you have the right to defend yourself. Martin attempted to defend himself from someone that had 100lbs on him, and a gun.

The law clearly says that if you may only use deadly force if you are in danger of death or great bodily harm.

Zimmerman would have been in no danger at all if he wouldn't have committed an aggravated assault which lead to the victim standing their ground.

His firing of a weapon at a person screaming for help, was not him standing his ground.

The only issue here is politics, not law.

Why am I so interested in the subject?

I am a Florida resident, and gun owner. You can come with your politics all you want, but I know the Florida Statutes, and I know that anywhere else in this State Zimmerman would have been convicted by now... Miami-Dade and Broward Sheriffs have both already stated that this is a far cry from a difficult case, this is a really simple case. He fired his weapon at someone screaming for help, the end.

You are spreading lies again.

Twice the weight???????

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I stand corrected, he gained weight since the shooting.

This does not change the fact that he shot someone at intermediate range that was screaming for help.

Also, his chase was illegal.

He chased down someone that according to his own words was "just walking and looking around", with a weapon on his person.

That is a threat to the person's well-being and having the ability to make good on that threat which means it was assault. Having a firearm involved in the crime means it was aggravated assault. When he finally caught up with Martin, if he so much as of laid a finger on him that was Battery(He stated that there was a fight at this time). He was making good on his threat after all...

Aggravated assault -> Battery -> Firearm discharged from intermediate range at someone screaming for help(This is not standing your ground, he was not in any danger) -> Death.

Death as a result of someone breaking the law = murder.

Clean cut case.

Edited by xFelix
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This does not change the fact that he shot someone at intermediate range that was screaming for help.

I am still not seeing your proof of who was screaming. I am not claiming to be a ballistics expert but soot around the wound means fairly close.

And what did you mean by "my politics"?

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I stand corrected, he gained weight since the shooting.

This does not change the fact that he shot someone at intermediate range that was screaming for help.

Also, his chase was illegal.

He chased down someone that according to his own words was "just walking and looking around", with a weapon on his person.

That is a threat to the person's well-being and having the ability to make good on that threat which means it was assault. Having a firearm involved in the crime means it was aggravated assault. When he finally caught up with Martin, if he so much as of laid a finger on him that was Battery(He stated that there was a fight at this time). He was making good on his threat after all...

Aggravated assault -> Battery -> Firearm discharged from intermediate range at someone screaming for help(This is not standing your ground, he was not in any danger) -> Death.

Death as a result of someone breaking the law = murder.

Clean cut case.

I saw no evidence of a chase. More like following while on the phone to cops.

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I stand corrected, he gained weight since the shooting.

This does not change the fact that he shot someone at intermediate range that was screaming for help. - No evidence of anyone screaming for help.

Also, his chase was illegal. - No it was not. It is not illegal to follow a suspicious character.

Aggravated assault -> Battery -> Firearm discharged from intermediate range at someone screaming for help(This is not standing your ground, he was not in any danger) -> Death.

Death as a result of someone breaking the law = murder. - More speculation.

Clean cut case. - To the uninformed

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I'm sorry. I am just seeing a lot of racial bias in this case. It is all sad and unfortunate. Everything about it. Having the President of the United States proclaiming that Trayvon could have been his kid really did not help the situation IMO. Nor of course did the medias manipulation of Data and footage. it is all kind of surreal.

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I'm sorry. I am just seeing a lot of racial bias in this case. It is all sad and unfortunate.

Sadly some of the people here are filled with hate and just want to form a lynch mob... :unsure2:

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Zimmerman was not threatened by the boy, therefore Zimmerman is not entitled to invoke SYG.

Z was armed, the kid was not.

Racist or not, Zimmerman was a type of vigilante, and he disregarded the advice and instructions of his police dispatcher.

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Zimmerman was not threatened by the boy, therefore Zimmerman is not entitled to invoke SYG.

you don't know that, you were not there.

Z is not using SYG in the case.

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Zimmerman was not threatened by the boy, therefore Zimmerman is not entitled to invoke SYG.

You are stating your opinions. No evidence to back it up.

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you don't know that, you were not there.

Z is not using SYG in the case.

Then under what legal authority did he fire his weapon taking the life of another?

That is actually the only law in the state of Florida that allows one to fire a weapon in a public area or within 1,000 ft. of civilization except in firing ranges.

Sanford police said Zimmerman was told by operators not to use his weapon, but he did so anyway, killing the teenager.

http://baynews9.com/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/3/12/state_to_take_over_h.html

Zimmerman also blatantly violated major principles of the Neighborhood Watch manual, ABC News has learned.

The manual, from the National Neighborhood Watch Program, states: "It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers, and they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles. They should also be cautioned to alert police or deputies when encountering strange activity. Members should never confront suspicious persons who could be armed and dangerous...."

According to Chris Tutko, the director of the National Neighborhood Watch Program, there are about 22,000 registered watch groups nationwide, and Zimmerman was not part of a registered group—another fact the police were not aware of at the time of the incident.

ABC News is reporting that a 16-year-old girl spoke on the phone with Trayvon Martin just before he was killed, and she said Martin was evading the pursuer who would eventually kill him. She told her story to the network:

"He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," Martin's friend said. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run."

Eventually he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.

"Trayvon said, 'What, are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again and he didn't answer the phone."

The line went dead. Besides screams heard on 911 calls that night as Martin and Zimmerman scuffled, those were the last words he said.

Trayvon's phone logs, also obtained exclusively by ABC News, show the conversation occurred five minutes before police first arrived on scene.

Not that this matters: As Adam points out, even if Martin was a criminal felon—which he apparently wasn't—and even if George Zimmerman, the shooter, knew his victim's record—which he obviously didn't—even alleged criminals would have the right not to be gunned down without cause. For Holt to fantasize otherwise isn't criminal. But it also isn't reporting, and it's perilously close to racebaiting.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/03/what-happened-trayvon-martin-explained

It didn’t take long for Zimmerman to adjust to his new Florida home. In 2003, he gave chase when he saw a man steal a television from a supermarket, following the shoplifter until police could catch up. Zimmerman followed another man a year later, saying the man had spit on him.

Zimmerman’s record becomes spottier over the following years as he had a handful of run-ins with the law. In July 2005, Zimmerman was arrested after a tussle with law enforcement outside of a bar near the University of Central Florida. It was a first offense, and Zimmerman got off with a pretrial diversion program.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/21/george-zimmerman-the-man-who-shot-trayvon-martin-profiled-by-family-and-neighbors.html

The attorney for the Florida man accused of fatally shooting Trayvon Martin says he won't need the two weeks a judge has set aside for an immunity hearing under the state's controversial self defense law.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57572574/george-zimmermans-lawyer-cancels-april-stand-your-ground-hearing/

Had they been able to prove Zimmerman shot Martin in self defense, he’d be a free man. A not guilty verdict would send the world reeling! However, had they kept relying on “Stand Your Ground,” prosecutors would have picked Zimmerman’s story apart! Now it all makes sense. The defense team didn’t want to have to deal with Zimmerman looking like a liar on the stands, I guess.
Zimmerman claims that he fired in self-defense after Trayvon punched him, broke his nose, then began pounding his head onto a sidewalk. While those assertions are every bit of self-serving; however, none of that would have EVER happened had GZ stayed in his truck and not gotten out to chase TM down on foot with a loaded 9mm gun and then try to DETAIN the boy against his will. GZ lost any claim to self-defense because he CREATED that situation, and under Florida law,"there is no self-defense when you create the situation." Vila v. State 74 So.3d 1110 (5th Dist. 2011).

http://hellobeautiful.com/2624634/george-zimmerman-stand-your-ground-hearing-trayvon-martin/

Anyone else have an opinion about a vigilante that fired his weapon at someone not posing a threat?

He wasn't even a member of a crime watch, just a vigilante..

He murdered a minor, nuff said 'Merica.

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Then under what legal authority did he fire his weapon taking the life of another?

self defence, and yes, he was a neighbourhood watch capitan, pretty common knowlege,

stop with your rasict b.s.

you proved to be oblivious to facts of the case,. and seem to twist few facts to fit your argument, and also just talking outright lies.

you don't know anymore than media fed you, enough said.

btw, you should really try to kep your post short, no one reads your half a page of b.s.

Edited by aztek
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Then under what legal authority did he fire his weapon taking the life of another?

That is actually the only law in the state of Florida that allows one to fire a weapon in a public area or within 1,000 ft. of civilization except in firing ranges.

http://baynews9.com/...ake_over_h.html

http://www.motherjon...artin-explained

http://www.thedailyb...-neighbors.html

http://www.cbsnews.c...ground-hearing/

http://hellobeautifu...trayvon-martin/

Anyone else have an opinion about a vigilante that fired his weapon at someone not posing a threat?

He wasn't even a member of a crime watch, just a vigilante..

He murdered a minor, nuff said 'Merica.

What is Merica?

He defended himself against a violent man. Enough said.

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Anyone else have an opinion about a vigilante that fired his weapon at someone not posing a threat?

yes, i do, there should be more neighbourhood watch capitans like him.

and yes there was very real threat, it left scars on Z's head.

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I agree aztek, Zimmerman was obviously being attacked. What we don't know is who initiated it.

All we have, really, is Zimmerman's account of the evening....Which actually line up pretty darn well with the evidence.

We'll have to see what the actual trial brings though.

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