NPR story on Bigfoot phenomenon

[orangepeaceful79]

http://www.npr.org/local/stories/KPLU/149675249

[Keel M.]

I love the song at the end!

[Tia]

The story is incorrect in saying the stories have been floating around for centuries in the North West alone.

The Aborigines also shared their stories of encounters with the Hairy Guys with the first whites when they landed here.

That's 2 countries at least who can share a similar history without preparing some sort of 'duo hoax', surely that alone leads to other questions?

[Night Walker]

The Aborigines also shared their stories of encounters with the Hairy Guys with the first whites when they landed here.

Which Aborignes (such stories are by no means universal among indigenous groups)? Do you have an actual source for that?

[Sakari]

The story is incorrect in saying the stories have been floating around for centuries in the North West alone.

The Aborigines also shared their stories of encounters with the Hairy Guys with the first whites when they landed here.

That's 2 countries at least who can share a similar history without preparing some sort of 'duo hoax', surely that alone leads to other questions?

Tia,

No offense on this, but this is one thing that drives me nuts......It is claimed all the time that Native Americans talked about Bigfoot all the time, and how he was a living breathing thing.

The only information anyone can find on this is white man saying it.

They had numerous " spirit " type things they believed in, or had stories on, but I am still waiting for any facts on Native Americans sharing these stories.

Even BFRO has to make the excuse of " they will not talk about it on camera " when they make these claims.....

People go so far to try to say " Sausquatch " is the name the Native Americans used for Bigfoot...........( including the author of this story )

That is the biggest load of B.S. ever......Just a simple google search of how that name was made will show this as false.......

Edited April 5, 2012 by Sakari

[Night Walker]

Yeah, I share your sentiments, Sakari. Tia’s ”The Aborigines also shared their stories of encounters with the Hairy Guys with the first whites when they landed here” has absolutely no basis in reality (ie there is no supporting documentation) yet it reflects a commonly held belief/misconception among New Age Yowie-enthusiasts (who are virtually the sole promoters of the Yowie legend) and if they all believe (or make-believe it) with conviction it to be fact then it must be so. This is a good example of folklore-in-action; of fiction-masquerading-as-fact…

Where a wild man is described on the evidence of Aboriginal traditions, he is an unearthly humanoid monster, a "devil-devil", "big pfeller devil", or a mythical bogeyman.Where specified, the locale of such beliefs is always the coastal region: the Hunter River, or the New South Wales south coast as far inland as Braidwood. In one case, the Ngarigo dulugal (almost the same word as used in the coastal Dhurga, Dyirringan and Dharawal languages) is not especially supernatural, but a "wild blackfellow"; the Ngarigo language, as Joyner records, was spoken in the Delegate region, near Bombala (somewhat inland from the coast). Note that an Anglo resident of the Snowy Mountains region at the turn of the century stated that he had many times asked local Aborigines about the "hairy man," and they denied any knowledge of it.

This seems to localize Aboriginal wild man beliefs, and to identify them as mythological, like Gilbert's youree, and like the northeast Queensland quinkan mentioned by Joyner. Outside the New South Wales south and central coast region, if known at all, the word for wild man seems to have meant simply some kind of renegade. Aboriginal mythology, in surviving cultures at any rate, is not a history of once-and-for-all past events, but a living, ever-present reality (the Dreaming). In the main, early Anglo settlers had fixed ideas about Aboriginal people, and made little attempt to have these preconceptions challenged. It is very remarkable, on looking through Joyner's compilation, how few of the entries are based on Aboriginal reports, and those that are, are of a mythological nature, unappreciated by their Anglo recorders.

Groves, C. P. (1986) The Yahoo, the Yowie, and Reports of Australian Hairy Bipeds. Cryptozoology, 5, p. 49-50.

My understanding of indigenous beliefs in this matter is that they represent secret/sacred knowledge specific to certain cultures and, as such, are NOT suitable for discussion with/by outsiders. So when BFRO claims "they will not talk about it on camera" they may well be right. Private conversations with outsiders off-camera cannot be expected to be accurate reflections of secret/sacred knowledge. Even among those initiated into the culture there are different levels of knowledge/understanding and the ones at the very top (in Australia: the Kadaitcha men) are the least likely to reveal anything…

And, considering all that has been taken from them and destroyed in the last 200+ years, why should they?

Unfortunately, that doesn’t stop some outsiders speaking on their behalf for their own personal reasons…

[keninsc]

.....and we all know that telling the same story over and over again for centuries doesn't effect the content of the story at all. Right? Right!

[orangepeaceful79]

I think that the tight lipped nature of the Native populations of both North America and Australia is fascinating in another way - because it demonstrates again a perfect example of how a LACK of information and evidence on a subject is used interchangeably with actual evidence and information. You really have to give the cryptos credit, turning the lack of evidence into evidence itself is a remarkable feat of investigative alchemy.

[Tia]

Actually boys I did my research and went around the correct and polite route which is the only way an elder will speak to you and contacted a group in Katoomba last year who represented the Gundungurra Council.

I asked if an elder would speak to me about the Hairy Men and I was a few days later given the name and phone number of an Aboriginal elder and spent a good hour talking to her about the topic and other things.

It's not hard to get people to talk to you when you are respectful and honest with them. The only real difference given between todays encounters and ones passed down were the Aborigines believe the HGs to have feet facing backwards, the rest all fits in with what most people say of todays encounters.

Now I hope this isn't going to turn into a sling mud at me thread again and kill it off like the one in sightings and reports.

[orangepeaceful79]

Actually boys I did my research and went around the correct and polite route which is the only way an elder will speak to you and contacted a group in Katoomba last year who represented the Gundungurra Council.

I asked if an elder would speak to me about the Hairy Men and I was a few days later given the name and phone number of an Aboriginal elder and spent a good hour talking to her about the topic and other things.

It's not hard to get people to talk to you when you are respectful and honest with them. The only real difference given between todays encounters and ones passed down were the Aborigines believe the HGs to have feet facing backwards, the rest all fits in with what most people say of todays encounters.

Now I hope this isn't going to turn into a sling mud at me thread again and kill it off like the one in sightings and reports.

I see no reason why slinging mud should ever be part of the process. I think its great that you went this route and contacted an elder regarding the HGs. I just wish some real evidence that is conclusive and able to be evaluated on an empirical level would surface. My mind has an open door - the only price of admission is solid evidence. I'm content to keep wating though.

[Sakari]

Actually boys I did my research and went around the correct and polite route which is the only way an elder will speak to you and contacted a group in Katoomba last year who represented the Gundungurra Council.

I asked if an elder would speak to me about the Hairy Men and I was a few days later given the name and phone number of an Aboriginal elder and spent a good hour talking to her about the topic and other things.

It's not hard to get people to talk to you when you are respectful and honest with them. The only real difference given between todays encounters and ones passed down were the Aborigines believe the HGs to have feet facing backwards, the rest all fits in with what most people say of todays encounters.

Now I hope this isn't going to turn into a sling mud at me thread again and kill it off like the one in sightings and reports.

Tia,

I have never slung mud at you.....

As for Native Americans, it is not true here........" Sausquatch " is not a name the " North American Native Indians " came up with and called them......That is fabricated also.

I can not speak about your neck of the woods, only mine.....I know, and new enough Paiutes, Cherokee's, Coquille, and a few other " Native Americans " to also have been " trusted ".......Honestly, trusted or not, the ones whom want their true history shared hide nothing to anyone, they do not like the " labeling " of Alcoholics and Lazy, so they share their lives openly.Although Bigfoot is not part of their lives, they actually call it a " white mans tale "..........Of course, you have your exceptions......I had a drunk Indian drive to our camp on the beach ( camping and jet ski races Pyramid Lake ).....We ended up inviting him to the campfire, because it was frustrating him sitting in his old cadillac staring at us for a hour.

Now being he was so " talkative " I asked him about Bigfoot, and Water Babies.....Imagine this, he said their were big hairy people all over the place, and also little people about " this tall " ( hand about 2 feet above ground ).......Mind you, after talking to the Reservation Police about him, they said he is their " community drunk and crazy Indian " ........They have a few of them.

Now if I wanted to believe him over traditional / sober people, I would support the story of Indians and Bigfoot.......I do not though.

http://www.plpt.nsn.us/

Just one site....

[Night Walker]

It should be pointed out that you make a lot of claims, Tia Yowies, marsupial lions, ghosts, UFOs, psychic communication, etc (this is relevant to the broader discussion) and that you never back them up, you gloss over/distort uncomfortable facts (like the nature of your association with AYR), and even deliberately conceal relevant information (like that which has been deleted from your Blog). It is ALL about belief for you and that is where we differ…

I asked if an elder would speak to me about the Hairy Men and I was a few days later given the name and phone number of an Aboriginal elder and spent a good hour talking to her about the topic and other things.

Did you record and document the conversation? Can you share this information? That would be research.

Criticism is an important part of research, Tia. It is not mudslinging nor is it persecution. Please stop setting yourself as a Matyr for the cause. We are chasing the same thing…

Remember:

Private conversations with outsiders off-camera cannot be expected to be accurate reflections of secret/sacred knowledge. Even among those initiated into the culture there are different levels of knowledge/understanding and the ones at the very top (in Australia: the Kadaitcha men) are the least likely to reveal anything…

The flip-side of only seeking out that which confirms your position is that some will also be willing to tell you what you want to hear. If you are indeed serious about researching the Yowie then you do need to move beyond the realm of claims and beliefs. You need to question and criticise yourself and your own position. I don't think you are there yet...

Edited April 6, 2012 by Night Walker