‘Obamacare’ and rising health premiums

[questionmark]

A society has a vested interest in the good health of it's citizens.

Yeh, but did you not notice that the neocons are trying their best to dissolve society?

[+and-then]

Yeh, but did you not notice that the neocons are trying their best to dissolve society?

To what end, exactly? Dissolution of society means anarchy and chaos. How does that benefit anyone?

[questionmark]

[/b]

To what end, exactly? Dissolution of society means anarchy and chaos. How does that benefit anyone?

I guess the reasoning is something like "freedom, pay no taxes and let somebody else do the bleeding to protect us"... or at least that is what I get from their garbled messages.

[DoesntReallyLike]

I guess the reasoning is something like "freedom, pay no taxes and let somebody else do the bleeding to protect us"... or at least that is what I get from their garbled messages.

I don't mind donating blood myself but I wish they would ask me first

[FurthurBB]

I don't mind donating blood myself but I wish they would ask me first

I think they were talking about fighting in wars.

[ninjadude]

[/b]

To what end, exactly? Dissolution of society means anarchy and chaos. How does that benefit anyone?

The Zionists, Bible bangers, end-timers, etc. all have their fantasies....

[preacherman76]

Personaly I think we would all be better off if each state made non profit insurance companies. Then remove laws where health insurance companies can only operate in one state. Open up competition. Some states right now have as little as 2 insurance companies to choose from. Monopolies kill capitalism. If we had a true free market system it would go along way in reducing costs. Something also has to be done to take down the monopolies sponcered by our own government with drug companies. Anything the federal government touches turns into a disaster.

Now im 100% against a insurance program provided by the federal government, but I knew something was seriously corupted when 0bama pulled the government plan from his health care bill. It made no sence what so ever. Republicans were going to hate his plan no matter what, so he didnt need to worry about gaining thier support. But pulling the government option p***ed off his own supporters too. It made everyone mad at him, instead of just republicans. He had the votes to pass what ever he wanted. Thats when I knew for certain that this was all about paying back the insurance companies that supported his campaign. At the expence of the American people. The dirty little secret was that the insurance companies themselfs wrote the bill. Behind closed doors. Then we were litteraly told we had to pass the bill "to see whats in it". Seriously?

[preacherman76]

Last week I heard that all of Germany's insurance companies are non-profit. I think that's the biggest issue here in the US. The insurance companies are all about being FOR profit which is where the greed comes in. Perhaps if all of ours were non-profit like in Germany, it would be far easier for all of us to get the kind of healthcare we want/need on an individual basis.

We dont need them all to be non-profit. But it would be great if each state made a non-profit insurance company. It would force insurance companies to lower costs to be able to compete. Also insurance companies would fight alot harder to lower medical costs from hospitals, and doctors ect ect.

[preacherman76]

Yeh, but did you not notice that the neocons are trying their best to dissolve society?

I dont know why, but at first I wanted to disagree with you. Right up till I realised you were describing neocons. Somehow I overlooked it the first time I read it. But yea, I totaly agree. Our foreign policy alone is gonna destroy our economy. Watch what happens as soon as we drop a bomb on Iran. Oil prices will be record breaking. Sad part is this is most likely going to happen even if 0bama gets a second term. And lets not even get in to how both parties continue with more and more freedom stripping legislation.

[Startraveler]

Personaly I think we would all be better off if each state made non profit insurance companies. Then remove laws where health insurance companies can only operate in one state. Open up competition. Some states right now have as little as 2 insurance companies to choose from. Monopolies kill capitalism. If we had a true free market system it would go along way in reducing costs. Something also has to be done to take down the monopolies sponcered by our own government with drug companies. Anything the federal government touches turns into a disaster.

There already are non-profit health insurers. That said, the health reform law provided seed money to create non-profit, member-run co-op plans in each state ("...any profits made by the organization are required to be used to lower premiums, to improve benefits, or for other programs intended to improve the quality of health care delivered to its members. ") This is part of what replaced the public health insurance option which, contrary to what you're suggesting, did not have enough votes to pass the Senate.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/18042

42 USC § 18042 - Federal program to assist establishment and operation of nonprofit, member-run health insurance issuers

(a) Establishment of program

1) In general

The Secretary shall establish a program to carry out the purposes of this section to be known as the Consumer Operated and Oriented Plan (CO–OP) program.

(2) Purpose

It is the purpose of the CO–OP program to foster the creation of qualified nonprofit health insurance issuers to offer qualified health plans in the individual and small group markets in the States in which the issuers are licensed to offer such plans.

( Loans and grants under the CO–OP program

(1) In general

The Secretary shall provide through the CO–OP program for the awarding to persons applying to become qualified nonprofit health insurance issuers of—

(A)

loans to provide assistance to such person in meeting its start-up costs; and

(

grants to provide assistance to such person in meeting any solvency requirements of States in which the person seeks to be licensed to issue qualified health plans.

(2) Requirements for awarding loans and grants

(A) In general

In awarding loans and grants under the CO–OP program, the Secretary shall—

(i)

take into account the recommendations of the advisory board established under paragraph (3);

(ii)

give priority to applicants that will offer qualified health plans on a Statewide basis, will utilize integrated care models, and have significant private support; and

(iii)

ensure that there is sufficient funding to establish at least 1 qualified nonprofit health insurance issuer in each State, except that nothing in this clause shall prohibit the Secretary from funding the establishment of multiple qualified nonprofit health insurance issuers in any State if the funding is sufficient to do so.

(

States without issuers in program

If no health insurance issuer applies to be a qualified nonprofit health insurance issuer within a State, the Secretary may use amounts appropriated under this section for the awarding of grants to encourage the establishment of a qualified nonprofit health insurance issuer within the State or the expansion of a qualified nonprofit health insurance issuer from another State to the State.

They started awarding the loans in February of this year.

[ninjadude]

Again we see a classic example of people liking things that are already in the law but hating some nebulous government takeover.

[questionmark]

Again we see a classic example of people liking things that are already in the law but hating some nebulous government takeover.

Fact remains that 90% of those against healthcare laws would not recognize it if it bit their ****

[Babe Ruth]

The American system of healthcare is irrational, if one were looking for best efficiency of a system.

A system of healthcare deals with a single product, as exchanged between 2 parties, the patient and the doctor.

Our crazy system inserts a third party into that doctor patient relationship.

[+and-then]

The Zionists, Bible bangers, end-timers, etc. all have their fantasies....

None of which include anarchy for the sake of anarchy. You show your ignorance and bias against all of the above with such a statement. What's coming will be the consequence collectively of human behavior. I think you have a lot of hate in you man. It's a good season to be looking at that.

Peace

[ninjadude]

You show your ignorance and bias against all of the above with such a statement. What's coming will be the consequence collectively of human behavior. I think you have a lot of hate in you man.

Hate for those seeking and actively working for the "end times", you bet I have a lot of hate for those ideologies.

[+and-then]

Hate for those seeking and actively working for the "end times", you bet I have a lot of hate for those ideologies.

As is common with you, you misrepresent me. Nowhere do I advocate for speeding up or taking any action that would bring about the "end times". If you weren't so Biblically illiterate you'd know that such action is an impossibility anyway. But that doesn't fit your narrative for me so you ignore it. The thing that I do that causes you to hate me is that I speak about what I believe and you disagree with it. I am a Christian Zionist and you find that to be something I should whisper and not admit because in your eyes it's wrong.

You might do a little investigating about those "end times" that you seem to disbelieve and hate at the same time. If you can force yourself to have an open mind you might just see it's not all bad.

[preacherman76]

Again we see a classic example of people liking things that are already in the law but hating some nebulous government takeover.

The main problem I have with the bill is the mandate. Though I am against the federal governments involvement in health care at all. If we let health care truly be part of the free market, it would go a long way in solving our problems. When you let the government start programs like medicare/aid it throws the whole thing outta wack.

Government forcing people to buy health insurance from a for profit business (or even forcing people to buy insurance from anyone) is not within thier range of constitutional powers. 99% of this countries problems stem from thier over reaching powers. Including foreign policy, economic policies, and domestic policies.

Of course people are against government take over. I cant think of a single thing they havent violated the peoples trust with when they put thier dirty hands in any program. Not one. They couldnt even keep SS ligit. Heck they couldnt even keep cash for clunkers from becoming a disaster.

Its like willfuly handing over your child to be baby sat by your uncle who just got outta prison for child molesting. Why on earth would you trust people who time and time and time again, go outta thier way to prove they cant be trusted?

[preacherman76]

Hate for those seeking and actively working for the "end times", you bet I have a lot of hate for those ideologies.

How is and then "actively working for the end times"? Recognising the possibility is hardly making moves to make it happen.

[Babe Ruth]

Dennis Kucinich criticized the law when it was just a bill, and I think his big complaint was the mandate.

He called it a lousy bill, and he was right.

[questionmark]

How is and then "actively working for the end times"? Recognising the possibility is hardly making moves to make it happen.

Preaching the end times that don't come to instill fear in people to join cults fits the bill 100%... just that sometimes I suspect that it has more to do with filled donation boxes than with end times.

[preacherman76]

Preaching the end times that don't come to instill fear in people to join cults fits the bill 100%... just that sometimes I suspect that it has more to do with filled donation boxes than with end times.

Fits what bill? How does preaching end times mean he is activly trying to make it happen? I guess you just ignored the actual conversation and went ahead and gave your opinion regarding a subject no one was talking about. At least you got your hate filled shot in though, thats whats important.

Ive never even seen him preach end times. He has brought up conversations regarding specific prophecies that just happen to be in the process of being fulfilled. And has brought up prophecies that now in our day have the potencial to be fulfilled. But he's never preached about it. And he certainly hasnt asked anyone for money.