Conrad Clough Posted April 30, 2012 #26 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) There is. It changes, but there is always a star in that region, no matter what. Or, should I say, no matter how bright. the problem is that while there always (or almost alsways) is a 'north star' they are often not as precise as is polaris today (within 1 degree), for example for much of the time that Thuban was considered the North Star (from who-knows when untill about 1900 BP) it was 5 or more degrees off true north. Edited April 30, 2012 by Conrad Clough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangea50 Posted April 30, 2012 #27 Share Posted April 30, 2012 There is artifact Proof! that the Pyramids and Sphinx of Giza are 1000s of years older than Dynastic Egypt. There has been a discovery in West Virginia that shows the Pyramids & Sphinx with the oldest art & symbols accepted by established archaeology. Many of these artifacts are made of metal and this metal has been tested and found not created by modern man. The artifacts have highly advanced forms of art and symbols. This discovery will absolutely prove Ancient Advanced Civilization. You can view some of these artifacts and ancient ooparts that are supported by this discovery at http://pangeawv.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentalcase Posted April 30, 2012 #28 Share Posted April 30, 2012 My point was, the Milkyway has so many stars, there will always be one that is true north. However, it may not be visible. Kinda of a pointless add-in, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentalcase Posted April 30, 2012 #29 Share Posted April 30, 2012 There is artifact Proof! that the Pyramids and Sphinx of Giza are 1000s of years older than Dynastic Egypt. There has been a discovery in West Virginia that shows the Pyramids & Sphinx with the oldest art & symbols accepted by established archaeology. Many of these artifacts are made of metal and this metal has been tested and found not created by modern man. The artifacts have highly advanced forms of art and symbols. This discovery will absolutely prove Ancient Advanced Civilization. You can view some of these artifacts and ancient ooparts that are supported by this discovery at http://pangeawv.com Many, if not all of those "ooparts", have been debunked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conrad Clough Posted April 30, 2012 #30 Share Posted April 30, 2012 wow, I am not sure that I have ever seen a website that is a bigger testament to bad science then the one just linked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentalcase Posted April 30, 2012 #31 Share Posted April 30, 2012 wow, I am not sure that I have ever seen a website that is a bigger testament to bad science then the one just linked. Ditto! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Voodoo Posted April 30, 2012 Author #32 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) There is artifact Proof! that the Pyramids and Sphinx of Giza are 1000s of years older than Dynastic Egypt. There has been a discovery in West Virginia that shows the Pyramids & Sphinx with the oldest art & symbols accepted by established archaeology. Many of these artifacts are made of metal and this metal has been tested and found not created by modern man. The artifacts have highly advanced forms of art and symbols. This discovery will absolutely prove Ancient Advanced Civilization. You can view some of these artifacts and ancient ooparts that are supported by this discovery at http://pangeawv.com Although I already wrote several time about Chinese aluminium it doesnt prooves anything except, maybe, if Nanjing belt was real deal, that Chinese somehow knew something much earlier then previously thought. But Nanjing belt isn even BC. So... Edited April 30, 2012 by Melo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Voodoo Posted April 30, 2012 Author #33 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Many, if not all of those "ooparts", have been debunked. Nanjing belt? Questionmark, at the time of the estimated time of building the Pyramid, the North Star was about two degrees off True North. Therefore the North (Polar) Star could not have been used for calculating True North. Your thoughts on that? Karlis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted April 30, 2012 #34 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) Questionmark, at the time of the estimated time of building the Pyramid, the North Star was about two degrees off True North. Therefore the North (Polar) Star could not have been used for calculating True North. Your thoughts on that? Karlis Which is more or less what the pyramids are off on the plateau due true north, except for Menkaure where somebody blundered and it happens to point to true north. Edited April 30, 2012 by questionmark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karlis Posted April 30, 2012 #35 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Which is more or less what the pyramids are off on the plateau due true north, ... ... Questionmark -- What are your thoughts about this comment? ALIGNMENT OF THE PYRAMIDS TO TRUE NORTH The Great Pyramid's north-south axis is aligned to within three-sixtieths of a degree of true north-south. It would be worthwhile to note that this alignment is more accurate than that of the Meridian Building at the Greenwich Observatory in London, which deviates from true north by nine-sixtieths of a degree. ... Source: <http://www.math.nus.edu.sg/aslaksen/gem-projects/hm/0102-1-pyramids/page1002.htm> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted April 30, 2012 #36 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) Go to google earth and see for yourself, there is a misalignment of about 2 degrees between Menkaure and the other two. Edit, and here we have the official topographic map of the area: It should be easy to print it out and measure it with a square. Edited April 30, 2012 by questionmark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karlis Posted April 30, 2012 #37 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Go to google earth and see for yourself, there is a misalignment of about 2 degrees between Menkaure and the other two. Is that ^ your answer to my post, Questionmark? If so -- what are you saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted April 30, 2012 #38 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Is that ^ your answer to my post, Questionmark? If so -- what are you saying? The pyramids are off by two degrees. He's typing in very legible English. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karlis Posted April 30, 2012 #39 Share Posted April 30, 2012 The pyramids are off by two degrees. He's typing in very legible English. What do you think about this information?... The sides of the square base are closely aligned to the four cardinal compass points (within 4 minutes of arc)[10] based on true north, not magnetic north,[11] and the finished base was squared to a mean corner error of only 12 seconds of arc. ... Source: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pyramid_of_Giza> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted April 30, 2012 #40 Share Posted April 30, 2012 What do you think about this information? ... The sides of the square base are closely aligned to the four cardinal compass points (within 4 minutes of arc)[10] based on true north, not magnetic north,[11] and the finished base was squared to a mean corner error of only 12 seconds of arc. ... Source: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pyramid_of_Giza> Nothing, I go with the official topographic map, and that is above, and that shows clearly a deviation of ~2 degrees from true north for all except one pyramid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Voodoo Posted April 30, 2012 Author #41 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Nothing, I go with the official topographic map, and that is above, and that shows clearly a deviation of ~2 degrees from true north for all except one pyramid. Whats your want to say? That they dont face true north? So, whats your explaination for those 2 degrees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karlis Posted April 30, 2012 #42 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Nothing, I go with the official topographic map, and that is above, and that shows clearly a deviation of ~2 degrees from true north for all except one pyramid. Ok -- let's see what eventuates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Voodoo Posted April 30, 2012 Author #43 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) No offence but Im little confused. We must clear that before we all went further. My thread was why pyramids face true north and you come with it. I read in dozens place that they face true north... Edited April 30, 2012 by Melo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted April 30, 2012 #44 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Whats your want to say? That they dont face true north? So, whats your explaination for those 2 degrees? Yes, and your guess is as good as mine, but they could very well result from using Polaris as reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted April 30, 2012 #45 Share Posted April 30, 2012 No offence but Im little confused. We must clear that before we all went further. My thread was why pyramids face true north and you come with it. I read in dozens place that they face true north... Well, give or take 2 degrees they actually do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Voodoo Posted April 30, 2012 Author #46 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Well, give or take 2 degrees they actually do. Maybe they simply made mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conrad Clough Posted April 30, 2012 #47 Share Posted April 30, 2012 Yes, and your guess is as good as mine, but they could very well result from using Polaris as reference. No it couldn't, Polaris was nowhere near the pole when the pyramids were built (assuming the commonly accepted timeline) the pole star would have been Thuban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmt_sesh Posted April 30, 2012 #48 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I've also read that in the Early Bronze Age, Polaris wasn't where it is today. In other words, not quite the North Star. But Polaris wouldn't have been needed to identify true north. This web page shows several methods whereby it can be achieved with considerable accuracy. I recognize some of this stuff from my distant past in Scouting, as well as from my time in the military. Obviously not all of the methods would've been applicable in the Early Bronze Age, such as by using a watch, but the shadow methods would've been. I remember how surprised I was when I did this myself as a kid: it really works. All I'm saying is, we needn't display chronic astonishment that people living over 4,000 years ago could identify true north. And in establishing true north, the other cardinal directions were then established. We do not know exactly which method the Egyptians themselves may have used, but they certainly didn't need modern science. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmt_sesh Posted April 30, 2012 #49 Share Posted April 30, 2012 No offence but Im little confused. We must clear that before we all went further. My thread was why pyramids face true north and you come with it. I read in dozens place that they face true north... Like I said earlier, they don't face true north. They face east. At least if we're talking about Old Kingdom pyramids (those of the Middle Kingdom were not as regimented as to orientation). To the Egyptians the entrance at the north wouldn't have been the front or primary face, the east side would have been the primary face—with its temples and causeway. Establishing true north simply enabled the workers to fix the cardinal directions, and as I tried to explain in my previous post, any number of different ways might have been used to fix true north. The building process from that point required the fixing of straight lines and well-defined angles. I don't see why anyone should be surprised that the ancient Egyptians could manage this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted April 30, 2012 #50 Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) <p>That would be quite easy to establish too, there are nice little programs that calculate that:<br /> <br /> Polaris 2500 BC: and Polaris today, both on April 30th at 19:16 GMT Edit: Note that there was a considerable movement due north, but very little away from true north. Edited April 30, 2012 by questionmark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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