Giza pyramids mystery

[kmt_sesh]

Melo, on numerous occasions now, people have added sound information (meaning, CORRECT). I'm not following your logic of disagreement. Not that I don't mind the show!

While mystifying, The Giza pyramids have been well documented, especially in the last 20 years. This means, all methods of building (for the most part). While some methods are still theoretical, it doesn't mean it is open for wild assumptions and opinions. I respect most of your threads Melo. I'm rather confused with this disagreement thing though! Especially, concerning our well respected member KMT! My Chi-town homie!

Goodness, it's not often someone has referred to me as a Chi-town homie. Or a homie, for that matter. This makes me feel young, and for that I am grateful, Mentalcase.

[Mentalcase]

Goodness, it's not often someone has referred to me as a Chi-town homie. Or a homie, for that matter. This makes me feel young, and for that I am grateful, Mentalcase.

Anytime man!

[Kludge808]

I want to know why the Giza pyramid builders never left any drawings, pictographs, etc, on how they constructed the monuments. They recorded every other aspect of life in drawings.

It's all part of The Conspiracy. No, not that Conspiracy, the other one. Or one of them. (I wish someone would organize them someday; they get so confusing as to which is which.) Anyway, They don't want you to know Certain Things and that's among them. Just like ooparts and eeparts and uutabs with iislots. There's an aa-something in there but I forget what.

Is it time for my meds yet?

[kirtibetai]

according to my understanding the Giza pyramids were aligned to true north so that they can attract maximum energy flowing out from the north pole of the earth and thus to create a very powerful energy force field.

Bovis from France was the first person to notice the existence of a very powerful energy force field when he noticed a dead cat inside the Giza pyramid but the body of the cat was not decaying although it was dehydrating.

[ShadowSot]

according to my understanding the Giza pyramids were aligned to true north so that they can attract maximum energy flowing out from the north pole of the earth and thus to create a very powerful energy force field.

Bovis from France was the first person to notice the existence of a very powerful energy force field when he noticed a dead cat inside the Giza pyramid but the body of the cat was not decaying although it was dehydrating.

Uh... yeah. That happens to anything left in a dry environment.

[Flibbertigibbet]

While I agree there might be a misunderstanding between Swede and yourself in discussing a "directional" versus a "rotational" movement of tectonic plates I don't think available evidence would support your idea. Mainly since the African (Nubian) plate shows evidence of moving per a fixed Antarctic, Eurasian, Lwandle, North American, South American and Somalian plates by as much as 0.152; 0.131; 0.022; 0.238; 0.295 and 0.076 degrees per million years respectively. On a scale of as little as 4500 years this movement would be insignificant, to say the least.

http://gps.caltech.e...tock/Morvel.pdf

Source name:

Geologically current plate motions

Geophys. J. Int.

(2010) 181, 1–80

Edit to add: It is also known that the African (Nubian) plate is rotating in a counter-clockwise direction which would further throw a monkey-wrench into your idea.

cormac

Ok thanks. That addresses my hypothesis precisely and disproves it.

[questionmark]

according to my understanding the Giza pyramids were aligned to true north so that they can attract maximum energy flowing out from the north pole of the earth and thus to create a very powerful energy force field.

Bovis from France was the first person to notice the existence of a very powerful energy force field when he noticed a dead cat inside the Giza pyramid but the body of the cat was not decaying although it was dehydrating.

I heard a tinfoil hart does that for you too...alignment is irrelevant...

[questionmark]

It's all part of The Conspiracy. No, not that Conspiracy, the other one. Or one of them. (I wish someone would organize them someday; they get so confusing as to which is which.) Anyway, They don't want you to know Certain Things and that's among them. Just like ooparts and eeparts and uutabs with iislots. There's an aa-something in there but I forget what.

Is it time for my meds yet?

And if you run out of conspiracies it is time to make up a new one...

[questionmark]

Ok then, the 'Bronze chiseling wooden mallet granite bashing challenge' has now been set. Let the games begin. :clap:

Please post up your efforts on Youtube.

Has already been done a dozen times... boooring!

http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=107986723

[Big Bad Voodoo]

As someone already said, the blocks are FAR from uniform, and fit far from perfectly. In areas where the interior of the pyramid, in past the outer blocks, it has been seen that the blocks are very irregularly shaped and probably were just thrown into position with heaps of mortor.

http://www.freerepub...t/2292130/posts

Far far from uniform, precise, or cleanly stacked. This was a rush, rush, rush job, with the outer blocks done much more nicely to hold the interior in, and to better support the cladding stones.

If facade stones were not removed you will say its perfect.

We now see only bones. Flesh is gone for good.

btw thanks swede.

[ShadowSot]

If facade stones were not removed you will say its perfect.

We now see only bones. Flesh is gone for good.

btw thanks swede.

Um... no. Even if the outer covering was still there we'd still recognize basic construction flaws making the covering a facade.

[Mentalcase]

It would be safer to say, there would be a facade if the mortor was still intact.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

As for the mortar and the wood required to produce it, yes, a great deal of it would've been needed. Most Egyptologists believe the area of Giza was already desert by the time of Dynasty 4, although I've come across instances in which some disagree and believe some savannah was still present. In either case Egypt had ample supplies of timber through Dynasty 4, especially at nearly all points along the Nile. The trees would not have been large, but there would've been plenty of them. Mark Lehner has argued that by the end of Dynasty 4 the area of Giza might have been stripped of timber supplies, so the Egyptians may have "deforested" themselves. Also, a king had no qualms about destroying tombs that stood on or near the spot where he established his own tomb, so even those would've offered quite a nice supply of timber (many mastabas in that early period were mud brick with wood framing inside the walls, so the average mastaba might have a lot of wood inside it).

Okay. From where they have supplies? How do we know that?

Didnt Lehner failed to create pyramid with all todays tech?

Also see my next post.

Thanks so far. I will search for others answer. Some questions just pop up in my mind trough conversation. Didnt used search button.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Um... no. Even if the outer covering was still there we'd still recognize basic construction flaws making the covering a facade.

Really? From where did you conclude that?

We have evidence that Arabs was shocked with precison of outer stones. They say that even hair couldnt be between stones with perfect fitting of stones.

Hey Mantalcase Im not ignoring nobody especially Kmt. But there are holes in story what Egyptologists tell us. Im not saying that I know anything. I wish there is time travel machine, I would be first retronaut to goes to the time it was done. I wanted to say something about my idea what for pyramid was used but now I will leave it for itself. And that isnt power plant or water pump or reverse aging rejuvenation purposed machine. There is no hyeroglphic text that explain pyramid construction, ramps and carving stones for pyramids.

Today we cut granite with diamond, and Im suppose to believe that they cut granite with copper and stone, cmon. If they done it with stone Im sure they will made numerous mistakes, yet we dont see numerous abandoned granite flat surfaces with hyeroglyphic mistakes.

What kind of ramps did Egyptians used? From the earth? Would they be so solid to support 60 tones granite blocks. What kind of ropes did they used that have strenght to pull 60 tones. Hand made ropes?Maybe so. What kind of boats Egyptians have that they were able to transported 60 tones block? Did they used wheels? Maybe so. But still granite done by copper and stone tools is funny in certain sense. Especially when we know that Egyptiams done vases from the rock. Did they carved them too? No. I will back to those vases later. What about bubbles in stone? And I read about hair found in stone, once. Thats probably debunked or I would see that all over this place so far. Shells in stone could enter there with aggregate, when mixing with water and mortar. Maybe they have had something for softing stones. Limestone,water and natron salt, chalk and kaolin according to some sources could be tugh same as concrete itself. Maybe GP was done on existed pyramid or mastaba. I read somewhere that Zawi said something similar idea once. How Egyptians get many workers around block to move them? How did they done it at top where is150 meters height? Workers with balloons? (sarcasm). There in the sky numbers of 7000 workers is irelevant.

Building of pyramid was done with blinding speed and it was done perfectly and with great precision. No matter of thoes pictures uploaded by some members. Imagine surface stones on it. You saw picture I upload of only surface stones and how do they look like. Arabs describe them that they were fitting with great accuarace and precision. Where did they get all the wood for mortar? Story is not full. One Egyptologist say one thing others other. One will say internal ramp, one extrnal ramp, one will say its done from centar in spiral, one will say raw after raw.I read how Chinese knew about hydraulics BC. So why would Chinese know something that Egyptians didnt.

Maybe stone cuting was done with high pressure water saw.

I heard that limestone could be easily soften with some mixture.(?) Maybe granite could be soften too.

Im preparing one thread about Incas stone technology and I think they used something similar tech.

So far I dont know anyone achive to create small copy of GP, successfully even with modern age technology.

I admit its very mysterious to me and especially when I heard stories about missing artifacts which were found near Giza pyramids.(?)

My friend found this.(Thanks Cowgomoo) The Irtysen Stele which is Louvre museum in Paris. Irtysen (cca 2000 BC ) wrote that he possesses secret knowledge to made stone statues by casting them in molds.

“Irtysen affirms he used a material mixture that hardened when cast inside molds to reproduce any kind of object or figure - a material that fire could not consume, nor water dilute. This suggests that Irtysen worked with a chemically-produced binding matter that could be mixed with certain minerals and poured into a mold, to produce statues.” from

http://www.relevant-...oof_irtysen.htm

Anyway on site of museum louvre just wrote this so...

“I know how to estimate dimensions, recut and fit until an element is in place. I know how to make pigments, and products that melt without fire burning them and are moreover insoluble in water.”

http://www.louvre.fr...culptor-irtysen

To be continued...

Edited May 2, 2012 by Melo

[Mentalcase]

IMO wood would have been traded. Being rather expensive.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

IMO wood would have been traded. Being rather expensive.

No. Maybe small amounts. I will explain that in my future post.

[ShadowSot]

Really? From where did you conclude that?

We have evidence that Arabs was shocked with precison of outer stones. They say that even hair couldnt be between stones with perfect fitting of stones.

The outer casing was carved on site to fit together, we know that. It would have looked nice.

It was intended to cover up the fact that, as has been pointed out previously, the interior stones were stacked haphazardly with empty cavitites, rubble, and mortar throughout.

[ShadowSot]

Okay. From where they have supplies? How do we know that?

Which supplies? The food?

Egypt was known as the breadbasket of the world for a reason. The annual floodinging of the Nile allowed for their fields to produce a bevvy of grain. It's what made Egypt (and the Pharaoh) wealthy enough to finance the pyramids in a time before money. It provided them with enough surplus to trade with other civilizations for resources they needed.

The stones for the pyramids cames from various sources in Egypt, with the limestone interior being quarried on site while the other rocks were imported from quarries along the banks fo the Nile.

We've been able to verify this by comparing the stones found at the pyramids and at the quarry sites.

[questionmark]

Which supplies? The food?

Egypt was known as the breadbasket of the world for a reason. The annual floodinging of the Nile allowed for their fields to produce a bevvy of grain. It's what made Egypt (and the Pharaoh) wealthy enough to finance the pyramids in a time before money. It provided them with enough surplus to trade with other civilizations for resources they needed.

The stones for the pyramids cames from various sources in Egypt, with the limestone interior being quarried on site while the other rocks were imported from quarries along the banks fo the Nile.

We've been able to verify this by comparing the stones found at the pyramids and at the quarry sites.

Right, a little reading up on history will soon confirm that Egypt was invaded first by the Greek and later by the Romans because it had the potential to feed both empires. The smallest problem a Pharaoh had was to feed 10,000 people.

[ShadowSot]

Today we cut granite with diamond, and Im suppose to believe that they cut granite with copper and stone, cmon. If they done it with stone Im sure they will made numerous mistakes, yet we dont see numerous abandoned granite flat surfaces with hyeroglyphic mistakes.

We cut granite with a variety of tools today, not just diamond, which allows us to cut it faster. More labor and time is required in order to cut and shape granite with copper tools and aggregates, but it's workable.

Heck, most of technology is not about finding new ways of doing things, but doing them easier or faster.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Maybe James Allen didnt translate very well spells from Unas pyrmids. Maybe those spells are somethnig far greater. Formulaes written in methaphoras. I mean from Egypt al-kimia develped. Those Arabs done miracles with Egyptian knowldege. I mean in Alexandria which was later I know we have Galens book about healing and anatomy, Euripides, Arisophanes books, Euclid produce book on geometry, Eratosthenes calculated size of earth and all books were in Egypt. I know they were greeks but Egypt influence them and Arabs. …

„11 His temple is open towards the the south-east, and Re rises daily opposite him. South of it the water is inapproprate for a mile. A wall guarded day and night separates the Nubians. There is a mountain massif in its eastern region (of Elephantine) containing all the ores, all the precious stones and all the things

12 sought for building the temples of the gods of the North and South, the stalls for sacred animals, the pyramid for the king, all statues that stand in temples and in sanctuaries. Moreover, incense is set before the face of Khnum and around him.“

Seems to me that they didnt have to traded for wood.

Djoser's sacrifice and dream

I heard this and my heart was sad, after I had heard the message (?). I spread my clothes. A purification was done, a secret procession and an offering was presented..... of bread, beer, geese, cattle, and all the good things for the goddesses at Elephantine, whose name was mentioned.

„18 When I was asleep, my heart was in life and happiness. I found the god standing. I caused him pleasure by worshiping and adoring him. He made himself known to me and said: "I am Khnum, your creator, My arms are around you, to steady your body,

19 to safeguard your limbs. I bestow on you ores with (precious ?) stones since antiquity (existing) that were not worked before to build temples, rebuild ruins, sculpt chapels (?) for his master. I am master of creation. I have created myself, the great ocean which came into being in past times, according to whose pleasure the Nile rises (?)

20 For I am the master who makes, I am he who makes himself exalted in Nun, who first came forth, Hapy who hurries at will; fashioner of everybody, guide of each man to their hour. I am Tenen, father of Gods, the great Shou living on the shore. The two caves are in a trench (?) below me. It is up to me to let loose the well. I know the Nile, urge himto the field, I urge him, life appears in every nose. As one urges to the field .......... I will make the Nile swell for you, without there being a year of lack and exhaustion in the whole land, so the plants will flourish, bending under their fruit. Renenutet is in all things“

The Famine Stele,written during Djoser

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Famine_Stela

to be continue...

Edited May 2, 2012 by Melo

[Big Bad Voodoo]

My bad, wood supplies.

[questionmark]

My bad, wood supplies.

Were gotten in Lebanon, as they still are, and the wood was transported for 320 miles through what is now Israel and the Sinai. In exchange grain and other Egyptian products were traded.

[ShadowSot]

Much of the wood from Egypt, when it's not the local small woods they had, has been Lebanon cedar.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Is Lebanon under Egypt at that time?

btw look my previous post.