Look Mama, no diamond saw

[kmt_sesh]

hello kmt_sesh , i know Brien Forrester personally ,as i have traveled around Peru and Bolivia with him and no i do not agree with all his theories .

i would like to share some images that i took from the sites in South America ,are we limited to a certain number of images per post on this site ?

questionmark thankyou for this thread , it is the reason i joined UM .

It's all right as long as there your own photos. It might be enjoyable to view them. Just don't go overboard—be very selective about what you want to show us. Bandwidth, you know.

[TheSearcher]

hello kmt_sesh , i know Brien Forrester personally ,as i have traveled around Peru and Bolivia with him and no i do not agree with all his theories .

i would like to share some images that i took from the sites in South America ,are we limited to a certain number of images per post on this site ?

questionmark thankyou for this thread , it is the reason i joined UM .

Sounds like a good idea. And Welcome to UM.

[questionmark]

and here we have an example of how to forge bloom iron with stones:

[Abramelin]

and here we have an example of how to forge bloom iron with stones:

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I see people using steel hammerheads and steel pliers.

Must be my old eyes,lol.

[questionmark]

I see people using steel hammerheads and steel pliers.

Must be my old eyes,lol.

Then you missed the beginning,they were using rocks.

[poppet]

here is a couple of vids from Brien ,those core drill holes in rose granite are extraordinary.

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[questionmark]

here is a couple of vids from Brien ,those core drill holes in rose granite are extraordinary.

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and no mumbo-jumbo needed, the explanation is here (not).

Really ancient technology that works quite well. If I am not mistaken we have a few videos demonstrating stone saws, cord saws and tube drills on this thread.

Edited October 2, 2013 by questionmark

[The_Spartan]

and no mumbo-jumbo needed, the explanation is here (not).

Really ancient technology that works quite well. If I am not mistaken we have a few videos demonstrating stone saws, cord saws and tube drills on this thread.

Funny thing is that the guy who is explaining the "Ancient Machining" techniques is none other Chris Dunn of the idiotic Giza Power Plant infamy.

[questionmark]

Funny thing is that the guy who is explaining the "Ancient Machining" techniques is none other Chris Dunn of the idiotic Giza Power Plant infamy.

Well, I guess he thinks that they did not use a bow drill but a power drill....

[Banksy Boy]

Really ancient technology that works quite well. If I am not mistaken we have a few videos demonstrating stone saws, cord saws and tube drills on this thread.

Do the video's of your hand worked cores etc show the same comparable tooling marks/ striations etc ?

Edited October 3, 2013 by Banksy Boy

[questionmark]

Do the video's of your hand worked cores etc show the same comparable tooling marks/ striations etc ?

mostly yes. There is little difference on the work object if the marks were done by quartzite (also known as sand) or diamond dust. The only difference is the effectiveness of the two media, you will need much more quartzite than diamond to drill, cut, file, the same area on the same stone or metal. Yet it works.

[Banksy Boy]

Really ?

So the feed rate shown by striations within a bore of a hand worked piece and a machined piece are the same then ?

Have you got any clips to back that up that we can compare with ?

Is Chris Dunn etc making up those claims then that they are different ?

Edited October 4, 2013 by Banksy Boy

[questionmark]

Really ?

So the feed rate shown by striations within a bore of a hand worked piece and a machined piece are the same then ?

Have you got any clips to back that up that we can compare with ?

Is Chris Dunn etc making up those claims then that they are different ?

Chris Dunn is famous for making up things... like the Giza power plant.

And from the marks you cannot tell the boring speed (to the contrary of his claims) but only the coarseness of the grain used.

[lilthor]

Really ?

So the feed rate shown by striations within a bore of a hand worked piece and a machined piece are the same then ?

Have you got any clips to back that up that we can compare with ?

Is Chris Dunn etc making up those claims then that they are different ?

No, not really.

The entire "they did it with string and bow saws" theory is both unevidenced and logically unsound. There IS a reason why its proponents spend all their time arguing about it rather than proving it with completed, verifiable replicas of originals. They can't, so they drone on about how obviously simple it was to do. What's funny is how these claimed adherents of "science" have sudden amnesia about how true scientific conclusions are achieved.

[Harte]

No, not really.

The entire "they did it with string and bow saws" theory is both unevidenced and logically unsound.

Straw man. Nobody makes this claim but it is convenient for you to claim they do because you can't dispute what they actually say.

Bow saws are used to saw wood. To drill stone one must use a tube saw. No strings attached.

Harte

[questionmark]

No, not really.

The entire "they did it with string and bow saws" theory is both unevidenced and logically unsound. There IS a reason why its proponents spend all their time arguing about it rather than proving it with completed, verifiable replicas of originals. They can't, so they drone on about how obviously simple it was to do. What's funny is how these claimed adherents of "science" have sudden amnesia about how true scientific conclusions are achieved.

ehm...right:

http://snagplayer.video.dp.discovery.com/478854/snag-it-player.htm?auto=no

[lilthor]

Straw man. Nobody makes this claim but it is convenient for you to claim they do because you can't dispute what they actually say.

Bow saws are used to saw wood. To drill stone one must use a tube saw. No strings attached.

Harte

Double straw man. It has been claimed here that straight cuts in granite found in Egypt and Peru were made using string and silica. Further, it has been claimed here (and "proven" with cartoon sketches) that holes were drilled in granite using chert-flake drill bits and/or tube saws powered by string-bows.

Which returns us inevitably to the bottom line...nobody has credibly demonstrated ANY of it.

[lilthor]

ehm...right:

http://snagplayer.vi...yer.htm?auto=no

Nice. The video begins with a scene showing red granite and cuts to a demonstration of drilling limestone/sandstone.

Sleight of hand? Or just an honest mistake...

Either way, it's not science.

[questionmark]

Nice. The video begins with a scene showing red granite and cuts to a demonstration of drilling limestone/sandstone.

Sleight of hand? Or just an honest mistake...

Either way, it's not science.

Because there is no worse blind than he who does not want to see...

We know, we know.

And no, That scene is in the National Museum of Cairo where they always use sandstone, that way the visitors can see a whole hole drilled in a few minutes instead of just a little ring. It works the same in any stone, just much slower.

[lilthor]

Because there is no worse blind than he who does not want to see...

We know, we know.

I can't argue with any of this! Of course, this chert-flake of wisdom has a double-edge...

Edited October 4, 2013 by lilthor

[lilthor]

And no, That scene is in the National Museum of Cairo where they always use sandstone, that way the visitors can see a whole hole drilled in a few minutes instead of just a little ring. It works the same in any stone, just much slower.

Right. So slow, in fact, that there exist no known replicas (in granite) completed in the last 2,500 years? So slow, that the visitors might themselves be mummified by the time the demonstration was finished?

Face it...that video is highly misleading and hardly useful in proving anything substantive.

[questionmark]

Right. So slow, in fact, that there exist no known replicas (in granite) completed in the last 2,500 years? So slow, that the visitors might themselves be mummified by the time the demonstration was finished?

Face it...that video is highly misleading and hardly useful in proving anything substantive.

Yes, sure, making holes in hard stone is so impossible that even the native Americans were capable of doing it. Without metal:

[Banksy Boy]

ehm...right:

http://snagplayer.vi...yer.htm?auto=no

Is that part of a program where 3 people tried to carve a small sphinx nose out of limestone using copper chisels, then had to resort to angle grinders and calculators. That did tickle me that program.

[Harte]

Double straw man. It has been claimed here that straight cuts in granite found in Egypt and Peru were made using string and silica. Further, it has been claimed here (and "proven" with cartoon sketches) that holes were drilled in granite using chert-flake drill bits and/or tube saws powered by string-bows.

Which returns us inevitably to the bottom line...nobody has credibly demonstrated ANY of it.

IIRC (and this thread is fairly old,) it was suggested that string could have been used to saw stone. IMO, a silly suggestion in light of the evidence we actually have.

What has been demonstrated, on the other hand, is that bronze or copper saws can be used, along with sand, to saw through stone (slabbing saws.)

Egyptian reliefs show this being done, BTW.

Coring drills used by Egyptians (again, shown in actual reliefs from the AE's) can be powered with bows or by hand, depending on how much weight (again, shown in artwork) is placed on the top.

Harte

[Banksy Boy]

Nice. The video begins with a scene showing red granite and cuts to a demonstration of drilling limestone/sandstone.

Sleight of hand? Or just an honest mistake...

Either way, it's not science.

I believe Chris Dunn did a proper demo using a copper tube drill and a piece of granite and using the sand etc that is said to have been used. Unfortunately the marks left behind where totally different, i forget the name of the program though that it was shown in.

Shame those that like to take snide pops at Mr Dunn don't have the gumption to try it themselves.