Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

[The Puzzler]

Yes, odium=hatred seems to be the base for odious. My old dictionary gives odium as hatred.

Was saying Yod sounded like od, and could also mean point, since it's a dot and found this about it:

..and Yod is part of every Hebrew letter (and therefore every word) Yod is considered the starting point of the presence of God in all things - the "spark" of the spirit in all things.

http://www.hebrew4ch...et/Yod/yod.html

If this yod meaning of spark is the same as od and the meaning certainly seems to fit - the od described as a 'spark' of Wralda's spirit - in all things, seems to make sense.

Since spirit is in the etymology for odr - also mind, body, spirit - to me, this seems to match in meaning - therefore an archaic meaning for OD could be the spark - that which creates the spirit of all living things.

Well, now you and Puzz should use the word you prefer in the sentence we are discussing.

(Wralda's) Od trâd to-ra binna: aend nw bârdon ek twilif svna aend twilif togathera ek joltid twên. Thêrof send alle maenneska kêmen.

They got excited by visions of Wralda - then were impregnated - by the 'spark' of God. I need to have a look at the original OLB text in that part to get the context right, I'm not sure if I have it.

I know you have something for to-ra but tora is thunder and also goes through to Torah, Hebrew, interesting in itself. to-ra is actually one word in the OLB text TORA.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tora

Tora in Finnish means quarrel. I see thunder as something that might create trouble, thunder, loud, quarrelling Gods but also a way God interacted with, whoever - Zeus is always throwing thunderbolts, the concept is there.

(Wralda's) OD/spark tread/made a path of thunder inside. Something like that - I'll work harder on it. Could be 'life' itself.

English

From Middle English trade (“path, course of conduct”), cognate with Old English tredan (“tread”);

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/trade

Edited October 9, 2012 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

OD has an assciation with ODIN as we all know, and ODIN rode on Sleipnirr, the 8-legged horse.

Well, look at this 'Friesian', and then think about what I posted concerning 'heat of passion', ardor, and fervor:

http://www.unexplain...0

.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

To-ra are TWO words.

It's more like 'dunno' or 'don't know' which is actually three words. You don't go chopping 'dunno' up into 'dun' and ' no'?

[The Puzzler]

To-ra are TWO words.

It's more like 'dunno' or 'don't know' which is actually three words. You don't go chopping 'dunno' up into 'dun' and ' no'?

Looks like one word to me...

tora in Faroese sounds a plausible word to be in Fryan imo.

[The Puzzler]

Utforkêrena Frya. Thâ hju-t sêid hêde, bêvade jrtha lîk Wr.aldas sê, Flylândis bodem svnk an grâda vnder hjara fyt da^el. Thju loft wârt swart a^end nylof fon târa to stirtane a^end thâ hja nêi moder omsâgon, was hju al lang vppira wâksta^er. Thâ to tha lesta spra^ek tongar ut-a wolka a^end blixen schrêf an tha^et loftrvm, wâk

Exalted Frya! When she had thus spoken the earth shook like the sea of Wr-alda. The ground of Flyland sank beneath her feet, the air was dimmed by tears, and when they looked for their mother she was already risen to her watching star; then at length thunder burst from the clouds, and the lightning wrote upon the firmament “Watch!”

OK, târa here is a form of tear - tears

What word would you equate thunder with in the above? Tungar which sounds a bit ike thunder seems to be tongue in Frisian though...

so tôra is probably not exactly thunder but might be more quarrelling, like Finnish.

or tôra could be tore - or torn...

tor-n

, afries., st. M. (a): nhd. Zorn; ne. anger; Hw.: s. tor-n-ich; vgl. ae. torn (2),

as. torn (1), ahd. zorn; E.: germ. *turna-, *turnaz, st. M. (a), Zwietracht, Zorn,

Zerrissenheit; s. idg. *der- (4), V., schinden, spalten, Pokorny 206; W.: nfries.

toarne; L.: Rh 1092a

Reminds me of being told it's Thor getting angry and hammering the sky when it thundered.

What word do you make of tora or to-ra then, what is tot'r?

Edited October 9, 2012 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

Looks like one word to me...

tora in Faroese sounds a plausible word to be in Fryan imo.

Like 'dunno'.

[Abramelin]

This is the sentence:

(Wralda's) Od trâd to-ra binna: aend nw bârdon ek twilif svna aend twilif togathera ek joltid twên. Thêrof send alle maenneska kêmen.

You say 'tora' is one word. Why? If I look at your screenshot of the MS, the word could be tradtora...

But it's not, it's 'to' and 'ra'.

You have downloaded (or have links to) several Old Frisian dictionaries. I think you will have to look for the dative, something like 'to-hjara'.

Knul, where are you.

Anyway, you can come up with words from China if you want, but now fit them into that sentence, and see if it works.

.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

This is the sentence:

(Wralda's) Od trâd to-ra binna: aend nw bârdon ek twilif svna aend twilif togathera ek joltid twên. Thêrof send alle maenneska kêmen.

You say 'tora' is one word. Why? If I look at your screenshot of the MS, the word could be tradtora...

But it's not, it's 'to' and 'ra'.

You have downloaded (or have links to) several Old Frisian dictionaries. I think you will have to look for the dative, something like 'to-hjara'.

Knul, where are you.

Anyway, you can come up with words from China if you want, but now fit them into that sentence, and see if it works.

.

'The screen shot could be tradtora but it's not TO RA imo - it's TORA - unless you can show me a better alternative.

If you think it's to and ra you should have an answer to what to-ra means, so what does it mean? It said tot'r in Dutch so what does that mean?

OK, to-hjara - Ill check it out. (thier?)

Because it looks like one word and related to tear, tore, torn etc to me.

--------------------

hjra/hjara appears to be 'her':

Falske Finda. Hüning swet wêron hjra wirda, thâ hok tham hja trjvwade wêre vnluk nêi by.

Ra^edbvwde Lyda. En store bâm kvn hju bûgja a^end sahwersa hja run ne bra^ek nêne blomstâl vnder hjara fyt.

---------------------------

This has 'Thêra' and 'tha ôra' - ôra seems relative to 'other' in these sentences...

Thêra hwam-his gâst that lestigoste sy a^end thêrtrvch sterik, tham-his hône krêjath kêning a^end tha ôra moton alwenna an sin weld vnderwurpen wêsa, til en ôther kvmth thêr-im fon-a sêtel drywet.

Whoever is the most crafty crows over the others, and tries to make them submit to him, till another comes who drives him off his perch.

Jes sêide Hellênia; tha rokka a^end ôra

Yes, said Hellenia, but ravens and other birds

æ-r (õ-r)

, afries., Adj.: Vw.: s. æ-ther (other)

------------------------------

By the way, here's ord for POINT. OD. - with ANFANG.

or-d

14, afries., st. N. (a): nhd. Spitze, Ort, Stelle, Anfang; ne. point (N.), place

(N.); ÜG.: lat. lancea WE; Vw.: s. -ling; Hw.: vgl. got. *uzds, an. oddr, ae. ord, as.

ord*, ahd. ort (1); Q.: H, E, W, R, WE; E.: s. germ. *uzda-, *uzdaz, st. M. (a),

Spitze; vgl. idg. *øes- (4), V., stechen?, Pokorny 1172; idg. *d

hÐ- (2), *dheh1-, V.,

setzen, stellen, legen, Pokorny 235; W.: nfries. oerde; W.: nnordfries. od; L.: Hh

80b, Rh 970a

Edited October 9, 2012 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

It's a - what's the word in English? - contraction of TO and HJARA ('hiara').

So you get in Dutch 'OD trad tot hara/haar binnen' which we can shorten to 'OD trad tot'r binnen'. We say TOT, which is the same as your English or Frisian TO.

TO HER, TO'R.

Oh and HJARA is used in single and multiple cases, but I'll have to check that one.

.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

I was in error in my former post, but I was quite good at parsing (Dutch: zinsontleding) in highschool, but that was 40 years ago, lol.

Vrlêden jêr haeb ik tham ut-er flod hred tolik mith thi aend thinra moder

Last year I saved them in the flood, as well as you and your mother

Verleden jaar heb ik hen uit-(d)er vloed gered, tegelijk met jou en jouw moeder

Vmbe hja navt to vrlysa haeb ik-ra vp wrlandisk pampyer wrskrêven.

In order not to lose them, I copied them on foreign paper.

Om hen niet te verliezen heb ik-er op overlands papier geschreven

In the first sentence THINRA stands for a word which is the same as the German DEINER, or YOUR.

In the second sentence RA stands for THEM (my -ER or ZE in modern Dutch)

So, WRALDA'S OD TRAD TORA BINNA = Wralda's od tred 'to them inside'/'inside of them'.

.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Otharus already said that language wasn't standardized as it is now, so people would have written as they spoke.

If you had never been in an official school, getting language lessons (grammar and idiom), but knew how to write, you would probably have written "I don't know"' as 'dunno'. like I would have written 'kweetutniet' or 'kweenie' (-ee- = 'ey' like in hey, 'ie' ='ee' like in knee), instead of 'ik weet het niet'.

The OLB is full with these kind of shortenings or contractions or what the hell the proper word is in English.

[The Puzzler]

Thanks for explaining, I'm a bit tired, will look more tomorrow.

So that's why Ottema has 'them' in his sentence. Still, it might be open to variation imo.

I'll sleep on it.

[Abramelin]

I think you'd probably not do that bad here in the Netherlands, with what you've learned about the Dutch language throughout all these years.

==

Sleep on it?? You're even worse than I am, lol.

Sleep well.

+++

EDIT:

I wonder... in how many threads here on UM (or anywhere for that matter) do people wish each other a good night on a regular basis??

.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Thanks for explaining, I'm a bit tired, will look more tomorrow.

So that's why Ottema has 'them' in his sentence. Still, it might be open to variation imo.

I'll sleep on it.

Puzz, it's not just about finding similar words in other languages, but also about context.

You'll maybe find a word from Finnish, or Polish, or Basque, a word that could somewhat explain some or other word from the OLB, but do never forget that Frisian, Old Frisian, or the OLB language are very much and must certainly, Germanic languages.

If you seek a word from another language, look into these Old Germanic languages (like you did using Old Norse). And Latin is important too, even Phoenician, but only as second choice..

Even if the OLB is as old as it is purported to be according to many, you still have to take into account they must have adopted words from here and there, but I'd look to neighbouring languages first, and second, to Latin or Finnish. Or Phoenician.

==

I tend to to look at the present situation: we are being flooded by American/English movies, documentaries, sitcoms, soaps, and so on.

Do we see much French or Russian or Chinese movies here in the Netherlands? Almost never.

And even if we did, I doubt we would adopt many words from the foreign languages used in these non_Germanic/Anglo-Saxon movies and so on.

Youngsters here use expressions like 'cool' or 'wow' or 'sh1t', while we have have words like 'koel' (pronounced like 'cool' and meaning moderately cold), and 'schijt' for 'sh1t'.

And after I say 'goodbye' to a colleague or a friend or whoever for the weekend, I always say, "Prettig weekend"...

Or in English, "Have a nice .... weekend"

Weekend in Dutch is 'weekeinde', but NO ONE uses that word here for ages !!

In short: people do adopt foreign words, but, unless there are already many foreigners living in your country, they will adopt words from closely related, and popular languages. They think that a somewhat different pronunciation of one of their own words sounds more 'cool' than the 'old-fashioned' pronunciation.

You won't catch me saying 'merde' (=French), instead of 'sh1t'.

But I love to say 'scheise' (German), and that's because it sounds better (= more bad) in my ears, better than 'sh1t', and it won't give you 'stars' on some forum, lol.

.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

I feel like hammered right now. In Dutch that would be "gehamerd".... someone has hit you on the head with a hammer.

That 'someone' is Al Kohol, a good friend of mine.

Just saying.

[Knul]

This is the sentence:

(Wralda's) Od trâd to-ra binna: aend nw bârdon ek twilif svna aend twilif togathera ek joltid twên. Thêrof send alle maenneska kêmen.

You say 'tora' is one word. Why? If I look at your screenshot of the MS, the word could be tradtora...

But it's not, it's 'to' and 'ra'.

You have downloaded (or have links to) several Old Frisian dictionaries. I think you will have to look for the dative, something like 'to-hjara'.

Knul, where are you.

Anyway, you can come up with words from China if you want, but now fit them into that sentence, and see if it works.

.

Here I am ! Unfortunately topics like Od have been discussed over and over again in this thread. TORA = TO HJARA.

[Van Gorp]

Puzz, it's not just about finding similar words in other languages, but also about context.

You'll maybe find a word from Finnish, or Polish, or Basque, a word that could somewhat explain some or other word from the OLB, but do never forget that Frisian, Old Frisian, or the OLB language are very much and must certainly, Germanic languages.

If you seek a word from another language, look into these Old Germanic languages (like you did using Old Norse). And Latin is important too, even Phoenician, but only as second choice..

Even if the OLB is as old as it is purported to be according to many, you still have to take into account they must have adopted words from here and there, but I'd look to neighbouring languages first, and second, to Latin or Finnish. Or Phoenician.

==

I tend to to look at the present situation: we are being flooded by American/English movies, documentaries, sitcoms, soaps, and so on.

Do we see much French or Russian or Chinese movies here in the Netherlands? Almost never.

And even if we did, I doubt we would adopt many words from the foreign languages used in these non_Germanic/Anglo-Saxon movies and so on.

Youngsters here use expressions like 'cool' or 'wow' or 'sh1t', while we have have words like 'koel' (pronounced like 'cool' and meaning moderately cold), and 'schijt' for 'sh1t'.

And after I say 'goodbye' to a colleague or a friend or whoever for the weekend, I always say, "Prettig weekend"...

Or in English, "Have a nice .... weekend"

Weekend in Dutch is 'weekeinde', but NO ONE uses that word here for ages !!

In short: people do adopt foreign words, but, unless there are already many foreigners living in your country, they will adopt words from closely related, and popular languages. They think that a somewhat different pronunciation of one of their own words sounds more 'cool' than the 'old-fashioned' pronunciation.

You won't catch me saying 'merde' (=French), instead of 'sh1t'.

But I love to say 'scheise' (German), and that's because it sounds better (= more bad) in my ears, better than 'sh1t', and it won't give you 'stars' on some forum, lol.

.

And some words can come as a boomerang back into our language without truly realising where it originally came from.

We do sometimes say 'mi-erde !' in our dialect instead of **** or merde. I think there is also a region the Mierden, can be swampy/****ty ground to walk in :-) See Ge-mert.

Schijten en scheiden are one act of seperating. Do people kinda sh|t when they divorce, I dunno.

A week wijkt keer op keer, always after the day of celebrating the ritual. We-ig en wieg, to and fro, op en neer telkens weer. Gewikt en gewochen.

Houwen doen we natuurlijk met den houwe m'er.

[Abramelin]

Here I am ! Unfortunately topics like Od have been discussed over and over again in this thread. TORA = TO HJARA.

Thanks. So I was right after all.

But "TO HJARA" was only mentioned here:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=184645&st=9495

.

Edited October 9, 2012 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

What word are you getting from 'to hjara'?

to ra - meaning what?

their, them, to their, to her???

[Abramelin]

What word are you getting from 'to hjara'?

to ra - meaning what?

their, them, to their, to her???

To them

[The Puzzler]

To them

ok but maybe it's 'to there - how would you use 'to them' in the sentence? od trad tora binna

hi-ar-a

, afries., Pron.: Vw.: s. thÁ-r-; E.: s. hÆ

http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/altfriesischeswoerterbuch/afries-H.pdf

Edited October 10, 2012 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

ok but maybe it's 'to there - how would you use 'to them' in the sentence? od trad tora binna

hi-ar-a

, afries., Pron.: Vw.: s. thÁ-r-; E.: s. hÆ

I was in error in my former post, but I was quite good at parsing (Dutch: zinsontleding) in highschool, but that was 40 years ago, lol.

Vrlêden jêr haeb ik tham ut-er flod hred tolik mith thi aend thinra moder

Last year I saved them in the flood, as well as you and your mother

Verleden jaar heb ik hen uit-(d)er vloed gered, tegelijk met jou en jouw moeder

Vmbe hja navt to vrlysa haeb ik-ra vp wrlandisk pampyer wrskrêven.

In order not to lose them, I copied them on foreign paper.

Om hen niet te verliezen heb ik-er op overlands papier geschreven

In the first sentence THINRA stands for a word which is the same as the German DEINER, or YOUR.

In the second sentence RA stands for THEM (my -ER or ZE in modern Dutch)

So, WRALDA'S OD TRAD TORA BINNA = Wralda's od tred 'to them inside'/'inside of them'.

.

[The Puzzler]

I think you'd probably not do that bad here in the Netherlands, with what you've learned about the Dutch language throughout all these years.

==

Sleep on it?? You're even worse than I am, lol.

Sleep well.

+++

EDIT:

I wonder... in how many threads here on UM (or anywhere for that matter) do people wish each other a good night on a regular basis??

.

Not many and I appreciate it too Abe.

Even if Otharus won't speak to me, Knul ignores me and Alewyn is insulted by my religious comments, it's nice to always get that Goodnight from you.

[The Puzzler]

Isn't 'Wralda' in the sentence before - about his fruit and nuts?

[The Puzzler]

Them is written as tham in the OLB as well.

BUT: pronoun

their

1. (possessive) Belonging to, from, of, or relating to, them.
   

their inside

their signifies ownership - their inside (the inside of them)

hja and hjara forms seemingly are used for their in the OLB text. The writings of Minno http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#be

I like to take on the sentences literally, as they are written first, each word - then see what else can come from it, more like we'd speak now, referring to word order etc.

---------------------------------------------

Binna also has ther (same as hjara) as a word that is a prefix

b-in-n-a

121, afries., Adv.: nhd. binnen, innerhalb, drinnen; ne. inside (Adv.); ÜG.:

lat. infrõ W 2, W 4, W 5, L 9, L 23, AB (82, 6); Vw.: s. a-, thÁ-r-; Hw.: vgl. ae.

biinnan, mnl. binnen; Q.: R, S, B, E, H, W, W 2, W 4, W 5, L 9, L 23, AB (82,

6); W.: nfries. binne; L.: Hh 9b, Rh 641b

Edited October 10, 2012 by The Puzzler