Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

[Knul]

I don't understand your red line logic.

Isn't Bant quite remote from Bvda linguistically? And where should the burgh of Lindahêm have been situated if Bvda was in Kuinre, or in that area?

I regard the Baduhennawood as not being a real name, but a name put to the wood by the Romans because they didnt know any name for it. They saw a depiction of the goddess Baduhenna there, and just called it "the Baduhennawood".

The red line connects the mouth of the Weser and the mouth of the Schelde, the borders of the Frisian reign as described in the OLB.

Lindahem might be Wolvega and Lindawrda the area around Wolvega.

Bant has been proposed as an option to investigate, not as a solution to the problem.

[Ott]

That's Frisian territory in the early Middle Ages.

The map "Die Friesen" that Kul posted is a fiction.

The line through North-Holland and Utrecht is too much west and the line through Friesland and Groningen is too much north.

[The Puzzler]

I know that Germany is called Tyskland in Scandinavia.

Otharus pointed that out in august 2011.

fryskednis.blogspot.com/twiskland-deutschland

In Finnish it is called Saksa, in English, Italian, Greek and Russia varieties of Germania, in French and Iberian varieties of Allemania.

But in German and Dutch it is Deutschland/ Duitsland, which is derived from THJUD = folk, people AND duiden/ deuten (explain, interpret).

See (mostly in Dutch): fryskednis.blogspot.com/neder-holland

BTW, we don't know if OLB's TWISKLAND exactly overlaps the nowaday (or 19th century) 'Tyskland'.

It will partly have been around there, but it may have stretched further eastwards.

.

I agree Tysk is from thjud.

Ordet tysk stammer fra det gammelhøjtyske theodisk,diutisk, der er afledt af det oldgermanske theoda "folk" i betydningen "talende folkesproget", i modsætning til latin, der brugtes af gejstlige og lærde.

http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyskland

But I do not think Twiskland is a form of Tyskland, if we go with the OLB it says:

The other tribe, that wandered about in the neighbourhood, called themselves Franks, not because they were free, but the name of their first king was Frank, who, by the help of the degenerate maidens, had had himself made hereditary king over his people. The people nearest to him called themselves Thioth-his sons—that is, sons of the people. They had remained free, because they never would acknowledge any king, or prince, or master except those chosen by general consent in a general assembly. Askar had already learned from Reintja that the Twisklander princes were almost always at war with each other.

Thioth - his sons of the people - this imo is the beginning of Tysk/thjud/teut etc etc for Germans and Germany - not as Twiskland, an older area that probably WAS in the area of Germany. Basically Twisklanders became Tysklanders because of Thioth as thjud not from any change in the name Twisklanders through etymology to Tysk.

I can't find it just now, it's late, my eyes are tired but there is a sentence in the OLB that starts: "Betwisk..." and continues on with twisk again in it for between, about mountains. Twisk is definitely between.

OK, I found it: Bitwiska tha fêrum a^end heinda Krêkalandum fand Jon svma êlanda thêr im likte, vppet grâteste gvng-er inna tha walda twisk tha^et berchta en burch bvwa.

If anything, it starts to sound like Swiss...

twi-s-k

34, twi-s-k-a, afries., Präp.: nhd. zwischen; ne. between; Vw.: s. a-, bi-*,

en-, on-; Hw.: vgl. ahd. zwiskÐn*; Q.: R, B, E, H, W, S; E.: germ. *twisko, Präp.,

zwischen; s. idg. *døis, Adv., zweimal, entzwei, Pokorny 230; vgl. idg. *døæu,

*døai, Num. Kard. (M.), zwei, Pokorny 228; W.: nfries. twissche, Präp., zwischen;

W.: saterl. twisce, Präp., zwischen;

Edited March 15, 2013 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

Thêra tham saton biâsten tha Dênemarka wrdon Juttar hêton, uthâvede hja tomet navt owers ne dêdon as barn-stên juta.

Unless there's Jews in Jutland and they are the Juttar who hunt for amber - I'd go this word might be 'jagia'. I am unsure though if juTa can go to jaGia.

jag-ia

1 und häufiger?, afries., sw. V. (2): nhd. jagen; ne. hunt

juth-a

, afries., sw. M. (n): Vw.: s. joth-a

joth-a

1 und häufiger?, juth-a*, jud-a, jod-a, jud-e, jod-e, afries., sw. M. (n): nhd.

Jude; ne. Jew;

jod-a

, afries., sw. M. (n): Vw.: s. joth-a

jod-e

, afries., sw. M. (n): Vw.: s. joth-a

With all these Godasburgs, Gotlands and associated names it always has me wondering. Did someone say Judesland?

Edited March 15, 2013 by The Puzzler

[Apol]

Quote

OLB fragmenten

[002/20] Adela's Rede

THÉR HÉRDON HJA MITH LUSTUM NÉI THA VRDWÁLSKA FINNA SÁGUM.

THRVCHDAM HJA THJVD ÀND NÉI WÉRON.

SÁ SEND HJA VNT.FRYAST VNTHONKES THENE WALD HJARAR ALDRUM

[O+S p.7]

Daar hoorden zij met welgevallen [:lusten] naar de losbandige [:overdwaalse] sagen der Finnen,

omdat die slecht [? duidelijk, verklarend] en nieuw waren.

Zoo zijn zij ontfriesd ondanks de macht hunner ouders.

{N.B. indien THJVD hier slecht betekent - zoals in Nyfrysk -, hoort middelste regel bij laatste, niet bij eerste regel!}

There they learned with pleasure the loose ways of the Finns,

because they were bad [illustrative, explainable?] and new;

and thus they became denationalised in spite of the efforts of their parents.

{note: if THJVD has a negative meaning, like in newfrisian, the 2nd line belongs to the third}

[013/18] Tex Frya's

THÀN SKILUN J HJA HJRA DVMHÉD BITJVTHA

[O+S p.23]

dan zult gij haar hare dwaasheid beduiden

explain to her her folly

[039/20] Minno's Skrifta

THA FORSTA ÀND PRESTERA KÉMON BÁRJA THAT WI HJARA TJVTH OVER HÉRICH MAKAD HÉDE

ÀND THÀT FOLK KÉM TO VS VMBE HUL ÀND SKUL

[O+S p.57]

De vorsten en priesteren kwamen en gaven voor dat wij hunne onderdanen oproerig gemaakt hadden,

en het volk kwam tot ons om heul en schut te vragen.

The priests and the princes declared that we had excited their subjects to rebellion,

and the people appealed to us for aid and protection.

[097/10] Burchfám's Love

THA FÉRHÉMANDA HÉRA KÉMON HJARA THJUD ASKJA

[O+S p.135]

De uitheemsche heeren kwamen hunne lieden opeischen;

The foreign lords came to look after their people,

[101/27] Andere deel Formleer

THISSA SÉKA MOTON KLÁR ÀND BÁR MÁKAD WRDA BY ALLE WISA.

SÁ HÀT HJAT ANOTHERA BITHJUTA ÀND BIWISA MÜGE

[O+S p.141]

Deze zaken moeten klaar en openbaar gemaakt worden op alle wijzen,

zoodat zij het aan anderen mogen beduiden en bewijzen.

These things must be made clear and manifest in every way,

so that they can be made clear and comprehensible to all.

[104/32] Taal en antwoord

BIFVNDEN HÀVANDE HO SÉR THET DVATH VMB.ALLÉNA TO TOBBANDE

ALSA BITHJUDE HIU HIRA BERN HO AND HWÉRVMBE HJU ALSA HÉDE DÉN

[O+S p.145]

Bevonden hebbende hoe zeer het doet, om alleen te tobben,

zoo beduidde zij hare kinderen, hoe en waarom zij zoo gedaan had.

Having found how hard it is to toil alone,

she showed her children how and why she had done it.

[113/12] Apollánja's Fárt

WI NE SKILUN NÉN BIHOF LONGER NAVT NÀVE AN THÀT WLA THJUD

[O+S p.155]

wij zullen geen behoefte langer hebben aan dat vuile volk.

we shall have no occasion to deal with those nasty people.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In fact, this is an interesting obseration.

You have the word Tjoð (52/20), Tjvð (39/22) or Ðjud (97/11, 113/14) - which means 'subjects'.

You have the word Tjod (204/22, 205/19) or Ðjvd (2/20) - which means 'nasty', 'foul', 'bad'.

And you have also the word Tsjod.ishêd (159/17) - which means 'foolishness' or 'folly'.

In the Christian tradition we say about something evil that it is not 'human'.

It seems like the ancient Frisians said about something evil or stupid that it is "human" (Tjoð).

I doubt, though, that the word biðjuta, biðjod, biðjude is of the same etymology, but I'm not sure about it.

Edited March 15, 2013 by Apol

[The Puzzler]

I've got a question before bed, what does anyone make of bûdar in this sentence? Wind rested in continuous/sina - it says calm for bûdar - can anyone give me more info on calm for bûdar? What am I missing...

Hêl thene sümer was svnne a^eftere wolkum skolen, as wilde hja irtha navt ne sja. Wind reston in sina bûdar, werthrvch rêk a^end stom lik sêla boppa hus a^end polon stand.

During the whole summer the sun had been hid behind the clouds, as if unwilling to look upon the earth. There was perpetual calm, and the damp mist hung like a wet sail over the houses and the marshes.

[The Puzzler]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In fact, this is an interesting obseration.

You have the word Tjoð (52/20), Tjvð (39/22) or Ðjud (97/11, 113/14) - which means 'subjects'.

You have the word Tjod (204/22, 205/19) or Ðjvd (2/20) - which means 'nasty', 'foul', 'bad'.

And you have also the word Tsjod.ishêd (159/17) - which means 'foolishness' or 'folly'.

In the Christian tradition we say about something evil that it is not 'human'.

It seems like the ancient Frisians said about something evil or stupid that it is "human" (Tjoð).

I doubt, though, that the word biðjuta, biðjod, biðjude is of the same etymology, but I'm not sure about it.

The middle one could be the same as bode - http://www.etymonlin...x.php?term=bode

As a shortened form of forebode (usually evil)

--------------------------------------

Maybe v is equal to ou or oo sound when used in the OLB, when it's not v or when just u is being used.

Thrvch = thrOUgh

Svn = soon/zoon but became son in English, a variation on soun/soon

Maybe even when it's an O after an I - ion - jon - jvn

I've only really glanced at it, but thought it might be a pattern.

Bvda might be more Bou or Boo - as said before beu - teu-ta

http://en.wikipedia....eutoburg_Forest

It's very late, I'm just tossing things around but now I'm going to bed.

Edited March 15, 2013 by The Puzzler

[Ott]

I agree Tysk is from thjud.

I did not say that.

In fact, I believe Tysk is derived from TWISK, not from THJUD.

[Van Gorp]

I've got a question before bed, what does anyone make of bûdar in this sentence? Wind rested in continuous/sina - it says calm for bûdar - can anyone give me more info on calm for bûdar? What am I missing...

Hêl thene sümer was svnne a^eftere wolkum skolen, as wilde hja irtha navt ne sja. Wind reston in sina bûdar, werthrvch rêk a^end stom lik sêla boppa hus a^end polon stand.

During the whole summer the sun had been hid behind the clouds, as if unwilling to look upon the earth. There was perpetual calm, and the damp mist hung like a wet sail over the houses and the marshes.

Hi Puzzler,

I think it is the same as the other bûdar: buidel, zak.

Look like the 'windbuitel', 'windzak'

-> when wind is calm, it doesn't go through the windzak, but seems to rest within by which the windzak falls down.

edit: by looking at the text i saw a funny but simple explanation of our word 'vreemd' (like stranger).

Maybe allready noticed, but new for me.

Kvmat thêr fêrhêmande kâpljud -> vreemd coming from ver-hemend (far living) :-)

Edited March 15, 2013 by Van Gorp

[Ott]

it starts to sound like Swiss...

twi-s-k

zwischen

Swiss indeed sounds like "zwischen" (German for between, betwixt, TWISK), but...

it is from Switserland (German: Schweiz =>> sounds like "-tz" --- Dutch: Zwitserland).

In OLB, "SWETSAR" is the word for "neighbours".

[Apol]

I've got a question before bed, what does anyone make of bûdar in this sentence? Wind rested in continuous/sina - it says calm for bûdar - can anyone give me more info on calm for bûdar? What am I missing...

Hêl thene sümer was svnne a^eftere wolkum skolen, as wilde hja irtha navt ne sja. Wind reston in sina bûdar, werthrvch rêk a^end stom lik sêla boppa hus a^end polon stand.

During the whole summer the sun had been hid behind the clouds, as if unwilling to look upon the earth. There was perpetual calm, and the damp mist hung like a wet sail over the houses and the marshes.

The word buda, bûdar is utilized six times in the OLB - at the pages 44/9, 49/15, 126/26, 150/32, 151/16 and 166/8, and as far as I have detected, it means 'pouch', 'bag', 'sack', 'purse', 'bellow', 'bubble', 'pocket'.

I'm translating this particular sentence into: the wind rested in its bellows, because it is associated with a bellows like the one they used at the fireplace, inside which the wind rested before it was to be blown out.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Apol

[The Puzzler]

I did not say that.

In fact, I believe Tysk is derived from TWISK, not from THJUD.

Oh, I thought you did.

"But in German and Dutch it is Deutschland/ Duitsland, which is derived from THJUD = folk, people AND duiden/ deuten (explain, interpret)."

I gave my explanation anyway on how Twisk is twisk and tysk is deutsch/people and IMO they are not related, but it's good to toss it over more.

Edited March 16, 2013 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

The word buda, bûdar is utilized six times in the OLB - at the pages 44/9, 49/15, 126/26, 150/32, 151/16 and 166/8, and as far as I have detected, it means 'pouch', 'bag', 'sack', 'purse', 'bellow', 'bubble', 'pocket'.

I'm translating this particular sentence into: the wind rested in its bellows, because it is associated with a bellows like the one they used at the fireplace, inside which the wind rested before it was to be blown out.

OK, thank you Apol and also Van Gorp for your explanation, which I think bellows might cover as windsack - zac as sack/budel/purse, I get it. 6 times, thanks for that too.

sina in the OLB is continuous, the English translation has perpetual - sina budar

Actually maybe the wind rested its continuous sack - like van gorps concept - he rested his bellows (it's wind blowing mechanism), maybe, not 'in it's bellows'. Rested it's continuous onslaught/sacking/blowing/bellowing. I imagine the wind doesn't rest all that much up there.

Thank you again.

Edited March 16, 2013 by The Puzzler

[Apol]

The middle one could be the same as bode - http://www.etymonlin...x.php?term=bode

As a shortened form of forebode (usually evil)

--------------------------------------

Maybe v is equal to ou or oo sound when used in the OLB, when it's not v or when just u is being used.

Thrvch = thrOUgh

Svn = soon/zoon but became son in English, a variation on soun/soon

Maybe even when it's an O after an I - ion - jon - jvn

I've only really glanced at it, but thought it might be a pattern.

Bvda might be more Bou or Boo - as said before beu - teu-ta

http://en.wikipedia....eutoburg_Forest

It's very late, I'm just tossing things around but now I'm going to bed.

I have become more and more convinced that the people of Bvda were the Batavians - though not at the time when they are mentioned in the OLB. The Batavians were an offshoot of the Catti, who resided in the area where the rivers Fulda and Eder are at their closest to river Lahn. Kattaburch in today's Kassel was their burch, which must have been founded after ca. 550 BC. It is first mentioned in the manuscript around 300 BC in connection with Friso, who sent his brother-in-law, Hetto, there. The burgh is not mentioned in the list of the grietmen.

As a consequence of conflicts within the Catti around 50 BC, a fraction of them were driven away. That fraction made its way south on the Rhine, where it established itself in the delta and became the people whom the Romans called Batavians. It is unclear whether the newcomers formed a ruling class and subjugated the existing inhabitants, or if the existing inhabitants were expelled. This was in a time without a folkmother any longer with power to avoid conflicts like these.

It was natural of the invading Catti branch to borrow its name from the burgh of Bvda and name itself something like 'Budavians'. The reason why they established themselves at the burgh of Bvda and the surrounding areas, was that they didn't want to lose the control they had had of the Rhine and its tributaries when they were a part of the Catti. Place-names like Büderich (‘Buda Realm’), Bodenheim (‘Buda Home’), Bateige (‘Buda Possession’) etc. along the river bear witness of the 'Budavians' having had a need of marking their area through settlements and place-names towards their enemies, the remaining Catti; and several of their places were situated at the confluences of tributaries.

At first I wondered why not one single of these place-names are to be found along River Lahn, which runs east from Koblenz. There are also few along River Mosel, which runs west from the same point - after all, these two traffic arteries are the two most important ones linked with the Rhine; they meet and cross the Rhine at the so-called 'Deutsches Eck' in Koblenz. However, when I now understand the context in toto, it is all obvious to me: Lahn was the road to where the original Catti lived, who now were deprived of their control of the Rhine. However, they had probably managed to retain a certain control of Mosel, so that they could continue their trade to well into France.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Apol

[Ott]

sina in the OLB is continuous, the English translation has perpetual - sina budar

No: sina budar = his/its bags (german: seine Beutel /// dutch: zijn buidels)

The english Sandbach translation here is, as in many cases, not very accurate.

[Ott]

I think Goffe Jensma was right after all: it is about religion.

And I would like to add: racism.

Earlier I said I agree, but let me be more precise:

There are indeed themes in OLB dealing with the different races and problems mixing them.

IMO, the best summary of what the book is about, is the gradual decline of an ancient civilization or culture.

[Ott]

I have become more and more convinced that the people of Bvda were the Batavians - though not at the time when they are mentioned in the OLB. [...]

This whole post is worth reading more than once. Thanks Apol. You are a good thinker.

[The Puzzler]

No: sina budar = his/its bags (german: seine Beutel /// dutch: zijn buidels)

The english Sandbach translation here is, as in many cases, not very accurate.

Maybe, but I think sina is probably sin/continuous. The wind rested in continuous (calm) bûdar/baggy/slack...

sin

(1) 1 und häufiger?, afries., Adj.: nhd. beständig, dauernd; ne. continous; Vw.:

s. -hê-r-a, -hÆ-g-en, -kal-e; Hw.: vgl. got. *sins, ae. sin-; E.: germ. *sena-, *senaz,

Adj., alt, immer, umfassend; s. idg. *seno-, *sen-, Adj., alt, Pokorny 907; L.: Hh

93b, Rh 1016a

in Old English in (prep.) "in, into, upon, on, at, among; about, during;" inne (adv.) "within, inside," from Proto-Germanic *in (cf. Old Frisian, Dutch, German, Gothic in, Old Norse i),

in

36, en (2), afries., Präp., Adv.: nhd. in, hinein; ne. into

Edited March 16, 2013 by The Puzzler

[Apol]

OK, thank you Apol and also Van Gorp for your explanation, which I think bellows might cover as windsack - zac as sack/budel/purse, I get it. 6 times, thanks for that too.

sina in the OLB is continuous, the English translation has perpetual - sina budar

Actually maybe the wind rested its continuous sack - like van gorps concept - he rested his bellows (it's wind blowing mechanism), maybe, not 'in it's bellows'. Rested it's continuous onslaught/sacking/blowing/bellowing. I imagine the wind doesn't rest all that much up there.

Thank you again.

In Norwegian we would say: Vinden hvilte i sine belger - where sine is the pronoun meaning 'its'. I think Sandbach just periphrased the sentence because he found it troublesome.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Apol

[Apol]

This whole post is worth reading more than once. Thanks Apol. You are a good thinker.

Thank you for that compliment, 'gestur'.

[Apol]

Earlier I said I agree, but let me be more precise:

There are indeed themes in OLB dealing with the different races and problems mixing them.

IMO, the best summary of what the book is about, is the gradual decline of an ancient civilization or culture.

Yes, there are certainly themes in the OLB which are dealing with the mixing of races. Of course, problems arise when races are mixed. It is close to impossible for a person to change his/her culture and ways of behaviour overnight. At the same time, when two or more cultures or races are becoming mixed, they all benefit from it over time - both culturally and racially. People are not evolving without having problems to solve, though, but mixed cultures and races are developing new and better qualities. It's the same as in the animal world - the mixing of dog races, for instance, creates better characters in dogs.

It is right that the book is about a declining civilization or culture, but it was doomed to decline because it missed something, which the invaders provided - first and foremost the Christian doctrines of "turning of the other cheek", which at last stopped the internal wars, and of humanitarianism. But at the same time our culture is still intact - it has just received an important injection. Look what the European culture has become today: the regular cultural leader of the world - for the time being with the multicultural USA in front. And at the harbour of New York you have Freyja standing with her lamp of fire - the Goddess of Freedom. How the empire of USA is acting around the world, suppressing other peoples because it believes it is superior to others, is another question, though. It certainly needs to be confronted in the form of problems in some form or another so that its pride can be lowered. The Twin Towers incident was hopefully an awakening. It is like with nations as with individuals: When you meet a person who obviously feels he is superior to others, you say: "What does he think he is? I want to hit him, that arrogant son of a b****!" And he gets the problem he need for being able to change.

USA has still its cultural problems to solve, though, but it has made big progress; and Europe is still in the act of learning its cultural or racial lessons. But the question remains: will we do the same mistake as last time we had a bad economical time. Then it was the Jews, now it is the Moslems...

Edited March 16, 2013 by Apol

[The Puzzler]

Thank you for that compliment, 'gestur'.

Oh, I feel like putting a pot of tea on for you two chums.

I jest. Especially after a few.

But seriously, I'd be going insane without the company of you all quite frankly.

[The Puzzler]

OK, enough friggin' around.

Where does everyone think Buda and Mannagardaford/Mannagardewarde is situated.

[Apol]

OK, enough friggin' around.

Where does everyone think Buda and Mannagardaford/Mannagardewarde is situated.

I have placed Bvda in Nijmegen, but it might well be it was in another place in the vicinity - for instance in Batenburg, Wijk bij Duurstede, Rhenen or Doorwerth.

Probably was Mannagardavvrda in Münster - I think the first part of the name just became distorted at some time and for some reason.

[The Puzzler]

I have placed Bvda in Nijmegen, but it might well be it was in another place in the vicinity - for instance in Batenburg, Wijk bij Duurstede, Rhenen or Doorwerth.

Probably was Mannagardavvrda in Münster - I think the first part of the name just became distorted at some time and for some reason.

Thanks for your opinion Apol.

I like the Batavian idea but somehow the words aren't working for me. batavian is said to come from 'bad/bat'=good to better - in Frisian bet or betera:

bet-er-a

19, afries., Adj.: nhd. bessere; ne. better

This is just not going through to Buda imo. But I'm certainly open to trying some more.

What I did find was Bautzen area, with a BUD sound. In Saxony. But maybe it's too far East...

Bautzen (German pronunciation: [ˈbaʊtsən] ( listen); Upper Sorbian: Budyšin [ˈbudɨʃin] ( listen); Lower Sorbian: Budyšyn [ˈbudɨʃɨn], Czech: Budyšín, Polish: Budziszyn) is a hill-top town in eastern Saxony, Germany,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bautzen

Goda is also a place in the same area: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6da

Then I'm thinking of Gotland (again) - maybe even it could be a related name. Godasburgh.

Edited March 16, 2013 by The Puzzler