Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

[Van Gorp]

What a strange story of Van Haren and its coroner (assumed to died within a year? taking a candy at Van Haren's home).

That's what most coroners should do: take a candy in the house of the victim :-)

Now, why should Van Haren be killed?

Edited May 5, 2013 by Van Gorp

[Knul]

And this newspaper article tells us that there was someone - dr. G.A.Wumkes - who thought it was no one else but Willem van Haren who wrote the OLB:

http://www.archiefle...oera,linda,vler

This article was new to me.

[Knul]

I am glad we talk about the OLB again.

[NO-ID-EA]

NO-ID-EA, here is what I found an interesting part of the poem, and I have posted the transltion:

http://www.unexplain...60#entry3885479

http://www.unexplain...50#entry4118755

I made a typo in the translation: rumpour should be rumour

Thanks for that ......All very mysterious , whats he talking about though , who are the rivers , are they kings , is the ocean the king of kings . like the popes Holy See.

/Sea ..........if he is only talking about a flood , how did it help Britain to obtain an Empire ..................was it the Celtic empire that was taken over ???

[Abramelin]

Thanks for that ......All very mysterious , whats he talking about though , who are the rivers , are they kings , is the ocean the king of kings . like the popes Holy See.

/Sea ..........if he is only talking about a flood , how did it help Britain to obtain an Empire ..................was it the Celtic empire that was taken over ???

He was a poet, and like poets do, he talked in ''mysterious ways'.

The part I translated was about how Britain got separated from the European mainland.

[Abramelin]

This article was new to me.

I have posted about it a year or so ago. The complete article is on my blog:

http://oeralinda.blogspot.nl/search/label/9-%20Een%20Beetgumer%20Muiderkring%3F

[The Puzzler]

I am glad we talk about the OLB again.

I don't believe we've stopped talking about it, for 3 years, next month.

[The Puzzler]

He was a poet, and like poets do, he talked in ''mysterious ways'.

The part I translated was about how Britain got separated from the European mainland.

Cool, thanks for the translation, I probably read it before but enjoyed it again.

If the Fryan land went to the Mediterranean Sea to Kadik (Cadiz), it WOULD probably include all those rivers - as you mentioned the rivers in your translation post.

[The Puzzler]

Thanks for that ......All very mysterious , whats he talking about though , who are the rivers , are they kings , is the ocean the king of kings . like the popes Holy See.

/Sea ..........if he is only talking about a flood , how did it help Britain to obtain an Empire ..................was it the Celtic empire that was taken over ???

Yes the ocean is the king of kings, Poseidon/Triton and he mentions Amphitrite too, wife of Poseidon in Greek myths. Talking about Britain/Albion being separated from the European mainland. I believe the water barrier of the Channel helped keep England safer for some time which allowed it time to build to a solo power position, which it would not have done had it been part of the European mainland still.

Abe, maybe it's not Doggerland area but the SOUTH of England he's speaking of that was separated in this poem.

Cornwall could be associated with being Amphitrites throne easy enough.

[Abramelin]

Cool, thanks for the translation, I probably read it before but enjoyed it again.

If the Fryan land went to the Mediterranean Sea to Kadik (Cadiz), it WOULD probably include all those rivers - as you mentioned the rivers in your translation post.

The reason Van Haren left out those other rivers (Meuse, Thames, Scheldt, Rhine) is maybe because he assumed the flood started in the Atlantic, west of Spain/Portugal and France. We now know it started west of Norway, the Storegga Slide, 6150 BCE.

[Abramelin]

Yes the ocean is the king of kings, Poseidon/Triton and he mentions Amphitrite too, wife of Poseidon in Greek myths. Talking about Britain/Albion being separated from the European mainland. I believe the water barrier of the Channel helped keep England safer for some time which allowed it time to build to a solo power position, which it would not have done had it been part of the European mainland still.

Abe, maybe it's not Doggerland area but the SOUTH of England he's speaking of that was separated in this poem.

Cornwall could be associated with being Amphitrites throne easy enough.

You mean the Channel area. But Dutch fishermen have dragged up bones and artifacts from the bottom of the North Sea for ages, so many will have assumed the North Sea was once dry land. And much of the Channel had already been formed long before the tsunami caused by the Storegga Slide, but Britain was even then still connected to the European mainland.

And although they didn't have sonar scan or things like that, they were able to measure the depth of the North Sea

[The Puzzler]

You mean the Channel area. But Dutch fishermen have dragged up bones and artifacts from the bottom of the North Sea for ages, so many will have assumed the North Sea was once dry land. And much of the Channel had already been formed long before the tsunami caused by the Storegga Slide, but Britain was even then still connected to the European mainland.

And although they didn't have sonar scan or things like that, they were able to measure the depth of the North Sea

Towards the Bay of Biscay. Reminds me of that Atlantika poem (not Atlantis).

I'd like to investigate this more but it's too late for me now, maybe tomorrow.

But yes, it could just be poetic license of a great flood of that area, either in Doggerland time or more recently imo.

Edited May 6, 2013 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

Towards the Bay of Biscay. Reminds me of that Atlantika poem (not Atlantis).

I'd like to investigate this more but it's too late for me now, maybe tomorrow.

But yes, it could just be poetic license of a great flood of that area, either in Doggerland time or more recently imo.

The Atlantika (better: Atlaintika) poem was a Basque poem based on one of the first translations of the Greek story by Plato. Actually it was based on a Spanish translation of an English translation of the Greek story:

legionromanes:

it was written by a Catalan priest Jacinto Verdaguer around 1890 and based on Jowetts translations, it was not based on Basque mythology

claiming it is is like if I wrote a poem about Atlantis and someone said it formed part of my peoples mythology

30 years earlier Benjamin Jowett had translated Platos texts from Greek to english for the first time

no one is saying that its part f his cultural heritage either

http://www.unexplain...45#entry2736689

So this is wrong:

Atlaintika is the name given by the Basques of south-western France and northern Spain to a sunken island in the Atlantic from which they claim to have escaped from, following its inundation.

http://atlantipedia....les/atlaintika/

.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Abramelin

[NO-ID-EA]

Ok ...Heres me playing about with words again............Knul will just have to put me on ignore , or something.......i am a rubbish note taker but i think Harsh Patel

Said a while ago.

"In a Chola Lexicon ..Chola means Soazhi ..which in turn denotes new tribe , new people or new kingdom ...... Chozha in Tamil is the same as Chola in Sanskrit

and Choda in Telugi" ..... i have mentioned a couple of times about the Gouda Brahmin , and Higgins thinking they were early Jouda or judah. ,,,,,,,,,In Sanskrit

could the chola be pronounced like Gola , ...and then could the chosen people be known in Tamil as the Chozha'n people .......note..... just thinking out loud.

[Abramelin]

I knew you would find it, someday....

The OLB Gola were missionary priests from Sidon.

Gola is also a Hebrew word for "exile".

Your Chola are from centuries later a than the Gola from Sidon (or Israel). And it is also known that Hebrews and Phoenicians lived side by side in Sidon.

Tamil "chola" is pronounced like "tshola" (IPA: 'ʧoːɻə), Hebrew "gola" is pronounced with a -CH- like the -CH- in Scottish Loch Ness.

.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

I knew you would find it, someday....

The OLB Gola were missionary priests from Sidon.

Gola is also a Hebrew word for "exile".

Your Chola are from centuries later a than the Gola from Sidon (or Israel). And it is also known that Hebrews and Phoenicians lived side by side in Sidon.

Tamil "chola" is pronounced like "tshola" (IPA: 'ʧoːɻə), Hebrew "gola" is pronounced with a -CH- like the -CH- in Scottish Loch Ness.

.

I found that Gola or at least the word used was golah was also a trader, a ship-builder. Well, it was on one of those 'hmm' Phoenician sites anyway, I'll try to find it. Actually I recall I saved it in my Faves, cause I didn't get to read it all. It seemed like relative to the words like 'settler' or 'colonist' but this was distinctly about ship-building.

Phoenician merchants having arrived on the coasts of that part of the Atlantic-facing coasts of Europe once called Iberia but are now Spain plus Portugal, they were wanting to stay. As part of this, it can be seen that they had taken on new types of vessel with them when leaving their original homeland. Looking at such as the words from languages within the India to Europe or Indo/European (= I/E) spread (esp. Greek) to do with ships passing into Semitic (esp. Hebrew & Phoenician), this is very well shown.

Thus, I/E gaulois (= merchant-man/trade-ship/freighter) as Semitic golah; I/E kerkouris (= warship/galley) as Semitic kirkarah/gurgurru; I/E navis/anaji (= ship/boat) as Semitic oni/oniyath.

The Greek word of gaulois originally meant bathtub and became applied to merchantman because of their shape and Phoenician retention of vessels of this tub-shape apparently led to considerable Greek ridicule. On the other hand, the Phoenicians plus Carthaginians took their ships on to waters that the Greeks were very nervous about going on to say the least, as explained by sources cited in "Phoenicians in West Africa: Djahi to Djahi".

Clearly the golah represents continuation, whereas the kirkarah indicates changes. It is perhaps inevitable that the warship rather than the merchantman that takes the attention and the glory and good analogy must be Viking craft. The Viking longship or drakarr (= dragon-ship) is well known to most members of the public in western Europe, even to those with little interest in maritime matters. Rather less well known is that is the cog-like Viking merchantman literally did the business.

Read more: Phoenicians in West Europe: From Canaan to Cornwall & Cork http://phoenicia.org/canaancornwall.html#ixzz2SbDaxIeV

Missionaries - people who went out and preached. These could have been most early colonists, missionaries were probably the only ones who really went and colonised anywhere for any purpose originally.

[The Puzzler]

The Atlantika (better: Atlaintika) poem was a Basque poem based on one of the first translations of the Greek story by Plato. Actually it was based on a Spanish translation of an English translation of the Greek story:

legionromanes:

it was written by a Catalan priest Jacinto Verdaguer around 1890 and based on Jowetts translations, it was not based on Basque mythology

claiming it is is like if I wrote a poem about Atlantis and someone said it formed part of my peoples mythology

30 years earlier Benjamin Jowett had translated Platos texts from Greek to english for the first time

no one is saying that its part f his cultural heritage either

http://www.unexplain...45#entry2736689

So this is wrong:

Atlaintika is the name given by the Basques of south-western France and northern Spain to a sunken island in the Atlantic from which they claim to have escaped from, following its inundation.

http://atlantipedia....les/atlaintika/

.

A post by legionromanes? That guy came off as a typing encyclopedia on speed, in case you didn't notice it's included in a reply to someone called The Puzzler....

I never said it wasn't, I said the poem in question was more similar to the poem L’Atlàntida to be even more correct in name, than to the OLB.

But none of it is really constructive in this topic in any case methinks.

[Abramelin]

A post by legionromanes? That guy came off as a typing encyclopedia on speed, in case you didn't notice it's included in a reply to someone called The Puzzler....

I never said it wasn't, I said the poem in question was more similar to the poem L’Atlàntida to be even more correct in name, than to the OLB.

But none of it is really constructive in this topic in any case methinks.

Yeah, he replied to you but I started the poem thing:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=128224&st=1845#entry2733911

I really never knew where it came from, but he obviously did. It's all over the internet, and many have accepted it as some alternative source for the Atlantis story. And it's not.

[Abramelin]

I found that Gola or at least the word used was golah was also a trader, a ship-builder. Well, it was on one of those 'hmm' Phoenician sites anyway, I'll try to find it. Actually I recall I saved it in my Faves, cause I didn't get to read it all. It seemed like relative to the words like 'settler' or 'colonist' but this was distinctly about ship-building.

Phoenician merchants having arrived on the coasts of that part of the Atlantic-facing coasts of Europe once called Iberia but are now Spain plus Portugal, they were wanting to stay. As part of this, it can be seen that they had taken on new types of vessel with them when leaving their original homeland. Looking at such as the words from languages within the India to Europe or Indo/European (= I/E) spread (esp. Greek) to do with ships passing into Semitic (esp. Hebrew & Phoenician), this is very well shown.

Thus, I/E gaulois (= merchant-man/trade-ship/freighter) as Semitic golah; I/E kerkouris (= warship/galley) as Semitic kirkarah/gurgurru; I/E navis/anaji (= ship/boat) as Semitic oni/oniyath.

The Greek word of gaulois originally meant bathtub and became applied to merchantman because of their shape and Phoenician retention of vessels of this tub-shape apparently led to considerable Greek ridicule. On the other hand, the Phoenicians plus Carthaginians took their ships on to waters that the Greeks were very nervous about going on to say the least, as explained by sources cited in "Phoenicians in West Africa: Djahi to Djahi".

Clearly the golah represents continuation, whereas the kirkarah indicates changes. It is perhaps inevitable that the warship rather than the merchantman that takes the attention and the glory and good analogy must be Viking craft. The Viking longship or drakarr (= dragon-ship) is well known to most members of the public in western Europe, even to those with little interest in maritime matters. Rather less well known is that is the cog-like Viking merchantman literally did the business.

Read more: Phoenicians in West Europe: From Canaan to Cornwall & Cork http://phoenicia.org...l#ixzz2SbDaxIeV

Missionaries - people who went out and preached. These could have been most early colonists, missionaries were probably the only ones who really went and colonised anywhere for any purpose originally.

The word "golah", in the meaning of 'merchant-man/trade-ship/freighter' appears to be of a non-Semitic origin. IE and Greek ('bathtub') in fact. I couldn't find any confirmation for this Semitic "golah".

But the OLB doesn't say it's the Fryans (or Greek if you like) who gave them that name, "Gola" was their own name, missionary priests (from Sidon).

[NO-ID-EA]

Chandragupta who is supposed to have met Alexander when he was aged around 14 , is actually buried at a jain centre of worship in Karnataka called

Belagola , so presumably those missionary priests from sidon were jains ?? LOL

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/shravanabelagola .

Edited May 7, 2013 by NO-ID-EA

[Knul]

Ok ...Heres me playing about with words again............Knul will just have to put me on ignore , or something.......i am a rubbish note taker but i think Harsh Patel

Said a while ago.

"In a Chola Lexicon ..Chola means Soazhi ..which in turn denotes new tribe , new people or new kingdom ...... Chozha in Tamil is the same as Chola in Sanskrit

and Choda in Telugi" ..... i have mentioned a couple of times about the Gouda Brahmin , and Higgins thinking they were early Jouda or judah. ,,,,,,,,,In Sanskrit

could the chola be pronounced like Gola , ...and then could the chosen people be known in Tamil as the Chozha'n people .......note..... just thinking out loud.

I haven't put you on ignore at all.

[Abramelin]

Chandragupta who is supposed to have met Alexander when he was aged around 14 , is actually buried at a jain centre of worship in Karnataka called

Belagola , so presumably those missionary priests from sidon were jains ?? LOL

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/shravanabelagola .

Just read from the link you posted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shravanabelagola

And the whole page, not just cherry picking words and names containing/ending with -gola.

But if that's what you want, try the Ngola from Angola:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angola

It leads to nowhere, NO.

[NO-ID-EA]

I know what you mean Abe , it probably leads nowhere , but i am trying to track down who they were known as when they were in India , so any little connection might

help me to find them, see you know by now i have this theory that the Rus were everywhere , in scandinavia ,then became Russians through the Rus of Askar being

asked to rule them , because they could not rule themselves without killing their own royalty .

maybe through CyRus in persia with a tie up with the Medes (Magi)they were ruling here too .

Maybe the EtRuscans somewhere along the line ,

and maybe in India via PoRus who i think is another one of these shortened names down from PalibOthRus

or pataliputra each king when crowned had to take on this name according to Strabo who was quoting Megasthenes , was this

Sandracottus or Chandragupta.

If Porus was Chandragupta then his son (Porus' son was also called Porus , ) had his own kingdom in Patilene , the capital city of which was Patala ,

Acc to Strabo Alexander got the wood for his boats in the high forests of Porus the fathers land , and then floated them down the river where he built a town , and

Porus' people helped him because he had previously warred with his son , and held him captive , These people were the Prasii ........so could they be the Frisii or at least the OLB scans who helped Alexander

so any little thing that can make a connection like Chandragupta being buried in a place called belagola .....might just go somewhere , who knows!!

Edited May 8, 2013 by NO-ID-EA

[Abramelin]

OK, now give us your idea how all this relates to the OLB.

[NO-ID-EA]

Apart from the fact that OLB tells us they lived in India for 1200 Years , and a few major players came away from India when Alexander left .

and that OLB mentions Askars being asked to go help the Rus in Russia.

Apart from the fact that the OLB talks about an influx of the Magi who were a sect of the Medes who ruled Persia for a time

Apart from Wm Van Heren connecting the OLB's Friso with Agrammes who was dhana Nanda , possibly chandragupta who was king of the nanda at the time of Alexanders invasion

Absolutely Nothing !.........you not interested in trying to find out who they were, while they were in India ??

Edited May 8, 2013 by NO-ID-EA