Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

[Van Gorp]

With the promise of keeping posting as long as you can,

we all will have the prospect for enough food for thought.

If there was a good job for a professional poster, you could put forward allready some great work as reference ;-)

Serious, success with all practical issues, hopefully things will sort out. Public is supporting.

[Abramelin]

Thank you very much, Van Gorp.

But what you put online in forums doesn't count.

Alas, but thanks for the idea.

Made me feel just a tiny little bit better.

OK, back on topic.

[The Puzzler]

Sundaland sounds like the same word - the land might have seen as 'continuing' - a peninsula.

In Sanskrit Sindh means ' river, stream' - it might have meant same as above really - a continuing area, a river or stream is something that just flows and flows, like flooded pipe, continual flood/water flow could be an initial concept of a river or stream - so Sindh as river, stream, could really be based in sund/sond/zont - continuation - same word.

Edited May 17, 2013 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

Thank you very much, Van Gorp.

But what you put online in forums doesn't count.

Alas, but thanks for the idea.

Made me feel just a tiny little bit better.

OK, back on topic.

One word. ebay.

[Abramelin]

Sundaland sounds like the same word - the land might have seen as 'continuing' - a peninsula.

In Sanskrit Sindh means ' river, stream' - it might have meant same as above really - a continuing area, a river or stream is something that just flows and flows, like flooded pipe, continual flood/water flow could be an initial concept of a river or stream - so Sindh as river, stream, could really be based in sund/sond/zont - continuation - same word.

Sundaland got its name from the Sunda Islands:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunda_Islands

[The Puzzler]

Sundaland got its name from the Sunda Islands:

http://en.wikipedia....i/Sunda_Islands

Yes...and? What is the etymology of Sunda in Sunda Islands?

[Abramelin]

Yes...and? What is the etymology of Sunda in Sunda Islands?

The name Sunda derives from the word su which means goodness. Sunda also means light, cleanness, bright, and white.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundanese_people

[The Puzzler]

The name Sunda derives from the word su which means goodness. Sunda also means light, cleanness, bright, and white.

http://en.wikipedia....undanese_people

OK thanks.

[Abramelin]

In this thread we had a discussion about the spelling of the word MAGYAR/MAGIAR :

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=245911&pid=4777731&st=90entry4777731

The OLB talks about - look closely - MAG then a back to front Y - (for Magy)

Then Page 3 of Knuls copies MAG-back to front Y-ARA

Why would this back to front Y be an I when I is already an OLB letter? But same with Y...

You can answer me in the OLB thread if you like. Check the original. http://www.rodinbook.nl/olbscans.html

Then check the alphabet in the OLB - what letter does that back to front Y equate to do you think?

Only in MS 003 it is spelled MAGYAR (with the OLB -Y- ) :

http://www.rodinbook.nl/ms001-050.html

But everywhere else "Magyar" is spelled with the OLB -i- which translates into a Dutch -J- :

MS 052/056/057/059/063/094

http://www.rodinbook.nl/olbmanuscript051-100.html

MS 161/203/204/206/210

http://www.rodinbook.nl/olbmanuscript151-210.html

(Best thing to do is to highlight MAG with your browser if you want tocheck it)

[The Puzzler]

I find su in Tamil as words associated with heat and maybe even to sun.

In Sanskrit I find this: eu- word-forming element in modern use meaning "good, well," from comb. form of Greek eus "good," eu "well" (adv.), also "luckily, happily," from PIE *(e)su- "good" (cf. Sanskrit su- "good," Avestan hu- "good"). http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=su+sanskrit+good&searchmode=none Makes me also think son is a word from this meaning. son (n.) Old English sunu "son," from Proto-Germanic *sunuz (cf. Old Saxon and Old Frisian sunu, Old Norse sonr, Danish søn, Swedish son, Middle Dutch sone, Dutch zoon, Old High German sunu, German Sohn, Gothic sunus "son").

The Germanic words are from PIE *sunu-/*sunyu- (cf. Sanskrit sunus, Greek huios, Avestan hunush, Armenian ustr, Lithuanian sunus, Old Church Slavonic synu, Russian and Polish syn "son"), from root *su- "to give birth" (cf. Sanskrit sauti "gives birth," Old Irish suth "birth, offspring").[/i] http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=Sanskrit From root *su- ; to give birth - related to Sanskrit sauti - which should have a common root as IE languages should. So, su in Sanskrit as ' good' imo should really be relative to the above. Indus river in Asia, from Sanskrit sindhu "river."

[The Puzzler]

In this thread we had a discussion about the spelling of the word MAGYAR/MAGIAR :

http://www.unexplain...0

Only in MS 003 it is spelled MAGYAR (with the OLB -Y- ) :

http://www.rodinbook.nl/ms001-050.html

But everywhere else "Magyar" is spelled with the OLB -i- which translates into a Dutch -J- :

MS 052/056/057/059/063/094

http://www.rodinbook...ipt051-100.html

MS 161/203/204/206/210

http://www.rodinbook...ipt151-210.html

(Best thing to do is to highlight MAG with your browser if you want tocheck it)

OK, I did some checking and see MAG-back to front Y-ARA and I do also see lots of MAGIARA.

The letter is in the alphabet there, that back to front Y, still wonder what it was.

Anyway, I actually think they were Zoroastrian Magi as well, who were Medians, maybe relative to the mention of Medea even, since Medea in myth is a namesake for the Medians themselves.

The Median people are mentioned by that name in many ancient texts. According to the Histories of Herodotus;^[19]

The Medes were called anciently by all people

Aryans

; but when

Medea

, the

Colchian

, came to them from

Athens

, they changed their name. Such is the account which they themselves give.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medes

Not to mention, the famous mention, of them being Aryans.

This is a priestly class also, associated again in myth, to Colchis, Aia, led by King Aeetes, a son of Helios. Medea, a sorceress who knew magic, seemingly a Magi priestess herself, worshipping a Helios, sun cult figure.

So, we know the Zoroastrians worshipped a fire altar and a God, and Zoroaster looks like Jesus, lol, so that's good enough for me to also think the Magi are the same as what you think - HOWEVER - I do not see why they could not have been originally a Uralic speaking people who learnt a language of that area, but in other places they kept their Uralic speech, culminating in a group migrating into the Hungarian Plain, from of all places, the Volga, where Snorri pinpoints Asaland, a place of dark sacrifice - because I also think that it's only the Finns who actually hold the Nordic stories of giants, elves and the like, because Fryans didn't. The people of Scandinavia hold these stories, often connected to shaman and a Uralic language, imo, because they originate with a Uralic speaking people. Greeks changed their language from Pelasgian, why not other people, especially priests who integrated into other peoples cultures, don't tell me all these Magi are different, I see a priest class spreading and integrating when I see Magi, Chaldean wanderers watching stars, guided by the Pole star, like Sami have a meaning for the Pole star too. All over, even being druids, seers, all priests everywhere in the ancient world and this is why we see the same basic structures in many religions all over the world, possibly then, spread by one dominating force.

Maybe not on track or whatever but it was in my head so wanted to share.

[Abramelin]

I find su in Tamil as words associated with heat and maybe even to sun.

In Sanskrit I find this: eu- word-forming element in modern use meaning "good, well," from comb. form of Greek eus "good," eu "well" (adv.), also "luckily, happily," from PIE *(e)su- "good" (cf. Sanskrit su- "good," Avestan hu- "good"). http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none Makes me also think son is a word from this meaning. son (n.) Old English sunu "son," from Proto-Germanic *sunuz (cf. Old Saxon and Old Frisian sunu, Old Norse sonr, Danish søn, Swedish son, Middle Dutch sone, Dutch zoon, Old High German sunu, German Sohn, Gothic sunus "son").

The Germanic words are from PIE *sunu-/*sunyu- (cf. Sanskrit sunus, Greek huios, Avestan hunush, Armenian ustr, Lithuanian sunus, Old Church Slavonic synu, Russian and Polish syn "son"), from root *su- "to give birth" (cf. Sanskrit sauti "gives birth," Old Irish suth "birth, offspring").[/i] http://www.etymonlin...search=Sanskrit From root *su- ; to give birth - related to Sanskrit sauti - which should have a common root as IE languages should. So, su in Sanskrit as ' good' imo should really be relative to the above. Indus river in Asia, from Sanskrit sindhu "river."

And this is what "sindhu" means in Sanskrit:

Sindhu: ocean, sea, river, flood, stream, waters, river Indus, country around the Indus, water ejected from an elephant's trunk, exudation from an elephant's temples.

http://spokensanskrit.de/index.php?tinput=sindhu&direction=SE&script=HK&link=yes&beginning=0

[Abramelin]

OK, I did some checking and see MAG-back to front Y-ARA and I do also see lots of MAGIARA.

The letter is in the alphabet there, that back to front Y, still wonder what it was.

Anyway, I actually think they were Zoroastrian Magi as well, who were Medians, maybe relative to the mention of Medea even, since Medea in myth is a namesake for the Medians themselves.

<snip>

Only on page 3 of the MS the word MAGYAR is spelled with that 4th letter from the left, but everywhere else (and that's a dozen times or so) it is spelled with the 2d letter from the left, the one that looks like -i- , the Dutch -J . In English it becomes -i- .

And that looks to me as though someone spelled it once like MagYar, either on purpose or it was a slip of the pen (not really, the 2 letters are too different).. ...and then thought it was better to use the -i- instead so you'd get MAGIAR (or Magjar in Dutch).

Remember: Willem van Haren's MAGER were Zoroastrians, the Hungarian MAGYAR were not.

And he is one of the many 'suspects' of creating the OLB (or he is one of the sources that inspired those writing the OLB....).

.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Abramelin

[jaylemurph]

Jaylemurph, HELP !! I'm hooked, lol.

Just keep in mind that you cannot usefully use historical linguistics on a word-by-word basis. Whenever you take one word and assume it's related to another one word in another language, you automatically remove it from the context that lingusitics explores. There's borrowing. There's sheer coincidence -- humans can make only so many sounds and can only attach so much meaning to three or four letter (orr fewer) morphemes. There's never a preponderance of evidence that truly shows relationship.

If you're amazed at the results, you shouldn't be. They're self-serving, deliberately or not. By definition, you find what you want to find, rather than having the data lead to a result -- which is the point of methodical research. The desired result affects the analysis, leading to false findings. You assume a relationship and -- hey, Presto! -- amazingly enough, you find it. That's not research, it's lexical m********ion.

What would be truly remarkable with this lego linguistics would be if its users ever failed to find a meaningful relationship between two words. Which from what I see, they haven't.

--Jaylemurph

[Abramelin]

I know Jaylemurph. It wasn't really a 'cry for help'..

To me it was more of an interesting coincidence (Middle Dutch "sintvloed" - Noah's Flood - and "Sindh Flood") because I have been saying all along that there were those in the 19th century who assumed that Eden/Paradise was located near the Himalayas. All that, combined with the Hindu legend of a Flood caused by torrential rains, could have been an inspiration for story of the (destruction of) Aldland/Atland in the OLB.

[Abramelin]

Post 1975:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=227240&st=1965#entry4546369

Angelara sâ hêton mân to fora tha butafiskar

The Angelara were men heretofor called the Butafiskar

A Swedish Wiki about the Batavian Republic... and look how it is called in Swedish (and Danish, and Norse):

http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataviska_republiken

[The Puzzler]

Post 1975:

http://www.unexplain...65#entry4546369

Angelara sâ hêton mân to fora tha butafiskar

The Angelara were men heretofor called the Butafiskar

A Swedish Wiki about the Batavian Republic... and look how it is called in Swedish (and Danish, and Norse):

http://sv.wikipedia....iska_republiken

Butafiskar = Bataviska

Meaning the Angles became Batavians or something is your line of thought??? Might be where Buda is...

[The Puzzler]

I just found this and maybe it's why English people still sometimes refer to the Dutch as Huns, remember I said that before?

In the German "Saga of Tidreck of Bern", its written versions beginning from the 13th century, the Huns are called Frisians. Frisia was often called Hunaland in the Middle Ages

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huns

Not the Germans from the war, but Dutch in particular. The Dutch Huns is a common term here, or if a Dutch person comes on TV, you could call him a Hun and it's not derogatory as far as I know, but calling a German a Hun from WW1 propaganda would be.

Edited May 20, 2013 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

Butafiskar = Bataviska

Meaning the Angles became Batavians or something is your line of thought??? Might be where Buda is...

Yes, that's what the OLB suggests.

As you can read in the link, I thought that the OLB had forgotten about the Batavi, but in a way they show up.

The Romans said the Batavi were not only great horsemen, but also great swimmers and sailors. All that could link them to the Angelara/Butafiskar.

The OLB "Butafiskar" is a name, though the etymology of the name is given ("buite-n-visscher" would be the Old Dutch word, someone who fishes 'outside, ie. at sea).

+++

EDIT:

The Swedish (and Norse and Danish) "Bataviska" is nothing but an adjective meaning "Batavian". In Dutch that would be ""Batavische" or "Bataafse".

The Dutch ending -ISCHE is equal to the Swedish -ISKA and the English -IAN.

.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

I just found this and maybe it's why English people still sometimes refer to the Dutch as Huns, remember I said that before?

In the German "Saga of Tidreck of Bern", its written versions beginning from the 13th century, the Huns are called Frisians. Frisia was often called Hunaland in the Middle Ages

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huns

Not the Germans from the war, but Dutch in particular. The Dutch Huns is a common term here, or if a Dutch person comes on TV, you could call him a Hun and it's not derogatory as far as I know, but calling a German a Hun from WW1 propaganda would be.

I have never heard of that before, but here they think it were the Franks who were called that way:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunaland

OK, and then the Dutch are a mix of Frisians and Franks, so yeah.

+++

EDIT:

Another possible source for "HUN" or "HUNE" is this:

Hünengrab/Hünenbett (German) and Hunebed (Dutch)

The word dolmen has a confused history. The word was first used archaeologically when Théophile Corret de la Tour d'Auvergne used it to describe megalithic tombs in his Origines gauloises using the spelling dolmin (the current spelling was introduced about a decade later and had become standard by 1995).[2][3] The etymology of the German Hünenbett or Hünengrab and Dutch Hunebed all evoke the image of giants building the structures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolmen

.

Edited May 20, 2013 by Abramelin

[NO-ID-EA]

Post 1975:

http://www.unexplain...65#entry4546369

Angelara sâ hêton mân to fora tha butafiskar

The Angelara were men heretofor called the Butafiskar

A Swedish Wiki about the Batavian Republic... and look how it is called in Swedish (and Danish, and Norse):

http://sv.wikipedia....iska_republiken

and i think its still related in some way to Vishnu , do you think these people at taxila or texali could have been pre-darwinian.........man evolved from the sea ..?

they were very , very involved theories they had.....Jainism and Aijivika and Carvaka all rejected Gods..... So how did they think life started

??..........What does the Buta part mean in frisian ??

Edited May 20, 2013 by NO-ID-EA

[Abramelin]

It means OUTSIDE or WITHOUT.

.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Abramelin

[jaylemurph]

Abe --

I'm reading Orlando Furioso (which is a great read) and the current action is taking place in Friesland. I thought it was an amusing coincidence. No sign of ancient history, just sort of a dippy princess and a lot of angry peasant Frieslanders.

--Jaylemurph

[NO-ID-EA]

I have noticed something typical :

In the whole of the OLB the word for land is "land" or "lande", but only in the chapter about the "Hindoo" and the "Pangab" (Punjab) the form "lônd" is used.

Only just spotted this post of yours , must have missed it before .

haven't we discussed this before , when different people from different time zones write parts of the OLB , the spelling of words , or their word usage

changes , making it seem more likely that a different person has indeed written that section , but it does not really help , it could mean different people

wrote their own sections according to their experiences , or it could mean the forgers were exceedingly devious ?? .... didn't Puzzler say recently O with a hat

translated to a , so just a different hand/time zone from those using land, would be interesting to know if those using lande and land were

also supposed to be written by different people/times from each other . ??

Edited May 21, 2013 by NO-ID-EA

[Abramelin]

Abe --

I'm reading Orlando Furioso (which is a great read) and the current action is taking place in Friesland. I thought it was an amusing coincidence. No sign of ancient history, just sort of a dippy princess and a lot of angry peasant Frieslanders.

--Jaylemurph

I had to Google his name. The poem is from the 15th century, and I read about that Frisian king.

Who knows, maybe another possible source for some part of the OLB...?