Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

[Abramelin]

I have done it myself, but not here in the Netherlands.

Seawater is water from a sea or ocean. On average, seawater in the world's oceans has a salinity of about 3.5% (35 g/L, or 599 mM). This means that every kilogram (roughly one litre by volume) of seawater has approximately 35 grams (1.2 oz) of dissolved salts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seawater

Evaporation may be a slow process, but when you use a wide, shallow metal bowl you can almost watch it happen when the sun is baking on your head. Cooking the sea water will speed up the process.

It took an hour or so to cook down about 1 1/2 L of water, which produced about 1/4 cup of salt. Enough to fill a small bowl and plant on your kitchen counter to pinch from, each time taking great joy in the fact that I was eating pure salt from the ocean outside our window. I’m now making extra to bring back home and send to some of my favourite food/Tofino lovers.

http://dinnerwithjulie.com/2012/03/31/homemade-sea-salt/

[Abramelin]

OK the mountains of their origin but either way the term doesn't have to mean sailors, cause it's translated soldiers.

The complete word,"salt-atha" is more of a problem for me than just the "salt" part.

The OLB made an attempt for an etymology, "friends of the salt".

Yesterday I found a site (not even sure it was in Dutch or English; I lost the link), that said something like:

Latin "soldare", to pay, and with the past participle or genitive (?) "soldata". Not sure about the spelling, but it was very close to the Dutch "soldaat".

And I found something else:

From:

Orel - A Handbook of Germanic Etymology (722 pages)

http://archive.org/d...rmanicEtymology

(click to enlarge:)

[Van Gorp]

In OLB some quotes where Salt-atha is used:

Then he chose among all his people and soldiers those who were accustomed to the sea

-> so not all salt-atha were accustomed to the sea

... but the soldiers who came from the mountainous countries were afraid of the sea

-> even some salt-atha came from the mountains and were afraid of the sea ????

Friends of the salt (in reference to the sea) is then questionable as etymology. Friends of salt-bars?

I think the meaning is 'paid to be loyal'. Palls as long as you pay them.

How salt and sold (what you pay,be-zahlt) can be connected is interesting: salt-salary is clearly connected, only OLB hints also 'sold' in soldiers is etymologic connected with salt.

In Dutch the soldij is the pay and the pay was salt.

So not only salary but also soldij and soldier coming from salt?

Salt is tightly together after vaporizing in the salt-pans -> very solid and solidair.

Soldiers ought to be solidair also. So Latin solidus based on salt? Why not :-)

Edited June 20, 2013 by Van Gorp

[Abramelin]

Lol, I found a lot more concerning salt as payment, but not everybody agrees:

As a precious and portable commodity, salt has long been a cornerstone of economies throughout history. In fact, researcher M.R. Bloch conjectured that civilization began along the edges of the desert because of the natural surface deposits of salt found there. Bloch also believed that the first war - likely fought near the ancient city of Essalt on the Jordan River - could have been fought over the city's precious salt supplies.

In 2200 BC, the Chinese emperor Hsia Yu levied one of the first known taxes. He taxed salt. In Tibet, Marco Polo noted that tiny cakes of salt were pressed with images of the Grand Khan and used as coins. Salt is still used as money among the nomads of Ethiopia's Danakil Plains.

Greek slave traders often bartered salt for slaves, giving rise to the expression that someone was "not worth his salt." Roman legionnaires were paid in salt - a salarium, the Latin origin of the word "salary."

Merchants in 12th-Century Timbuktu - the gateway to the Sahara Desert and the seat of scholars - valued salt as highly as books and gold.

In France, Charles of Anjou levied the "gabelle," a salt tax, in 1259 to finance his conquest of the Kingdom of Naples. Outrage over the gabelle fueled the French Revolution. Though the revolutionaries eliminated the tax shortly after Louis XIV fell, the Republic of France reestablished the gabelle in the early 19th Century; only in 1946 was it removed from the books.

The Erie Canal, an engineering marvel that connected the Great Lakes to New York's Hudson River in 1825, was called "the ditch that salt built." Salt tax revenues paid for half the cost of construction of the canal.

The British monarchy supported itself with high salt taxes, leading to a bustling black market for the white crystal. In 1785, the earl of Dundonald wrote that every year in England, 10,000 people were arrested for salt smuggling. Protesting British rule in 1930, Mahatma Gandhi led a 200-mile march to the Arabian Ocean to collect untaxed salt for India's poor.

http://uk.answers.ya...02050107AAlP7ax

( When you highlight the English word "soldier" in Sandbach's translation, you'll notice several different OLB words were being translated as "soldier". One we all know by now is "wêrar".)

sol-d-i-a 2, afries., sw. M. (n): nhd. Söldner; ne. mercenary; Q.: Schw, AA 164; I.: z. T. Lw. lat. solidus; E.: s. lat. solidus, M., Goldmünze; vgl. lat. solidus, Adj., gediegen, echt, im Besitz, als Vasall; vgl. idg. *solo-, *soleøo-, *soløo-, Adj., wohlbehalten, ganz, Pokorny 979

http://koeblergerhar...fries_tg_s.html

soldier (n.)

c.1300, from Old French soudier "one who serves in the army for pay," from Medieval Latin soldarius "a soldier" (cf. Italian soldato and French soldat "soldier," which is borrowed from Italian), literally "one having pay," from Late Latin soldum, from accusative of Latin solidus, a Roman gold coin (see solidus).

http://www.etymonlin...owed_in_frame=0

De soldij was en is nog altijd een soldatenloon. Er bestaat in Nederland een misverstand dat het woord - net als salaris - zou zijn afgeleid van het Latijnse woord voor 'zout' (sal), omdat de Romeinen hun legionairs soms uitbetaalden met het toen waardevolle zout. Soldij is echter afgeleid van de solidus[1], (het Latijnse woord voor solide) dat een Romeinse gouden munt was.

Translation:

The "soldij" was and still is a soldiers wage. In the Netherlands there is a misunderstanding that the word - like 'salary - 'was derived from the Latin word for "salt" (sal), because the Romans sometimes paid their legionnaires with the then valuable salt. However, "soldij" is derived from the solidus (the Latin word for solid) which was a Roman gold coin.

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldij

Salarium

Similarly, the Roman word salarium linked employment, salt and soldiers, but the exact link is very clear. The latest common theory is that the word soldier itself comes from the Latin sal dare (to give salt), but previous theories were on the same ground. Alternatively, the Roman historian Pliny the Elder stated as an aside in his Natural History's discussion of sea water, that "n Rome. . .the soldier's pay was originally salt and the word salary derives from it...". Others note that soldier more likely derives from the gold solidus, with which soldiers were known to have been paid, and maintain instead that the salarium was either an allowance for the purchase of salt or the price of having soldiers conquer salt supplies and guard the Salt Roads (Via Salaria) that led to Rome.

http://en.wikipedia....Salary#Salarium

But now about the -atha- part.

If anything, "salt-atha" is a folk-etymology for a Latin word, and has nothing to do with any "friends of salt" or "salt friends".

.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Abramelin

[Van Gorp]

Ah Abe, also awake in the early morning (or still awake :-)

Yes, interesting points to notice.

About atha, i find interesting the word 'attach'. Also in the meaning to bring toghether (made me think: solderen is also bringing together, attach to eachother).

An attachee is used also frequently in military/diplomatic meaning. Though, don't know if these salt-atta's were always that diplomatic :-)

[Abramelin]

Ah Abe, also awake in the early morning (or still awake :-)

Yes, interesting points to notice.

About atha, i find interesting the word 'attach'. Also in the meaning to bring toghether (made me think: solderen is also bringing together, attach to eachother).

An attachee is used also frequently in military/diplomatic meaning. Though, don't know if these salt-atta's were always that diplomatic :-)

I only slept for a couple of hours.....

=

That looked promising, Van Gorp, but the original Old French word is "estachier" :

attach (v.)

mid-14c. (mid-13c. in Anglo-Latin), "to take or seize (property or goods) by law," a legal term, from Old French atachier (11c.), earlier estachier "to attach, fix; stake up, support" (Modern French attacher, also cf. Italian attaccare), perhaps from a- "to" + Frankish *stakon "a post, stake" or a similar Germanic word (see stake (n.)). Meaning "to fasten, affix, connect" is from c.1400.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=attach&allowed_in_frame=0

[The Puzzler]

The complete word,"salt-atha" is more of a problem for me than just the "salt" part.

The OLB made an attempt for an etymology, "friends of the salt".

Yesterday I found a site (not even sure it was in Dutch or English; I lost the link), that said something like:

Latin "soldare", to pay, and with the past participle or genitive (?) "soldata". Not sure about the spelling, but it was very close to the Dutch "soldaat".

And I found something else:

From:

Orel - A Handbook of Germanic Etymology (722 pages)

http://archive.org/d...rmanicEtymology

(click to enlarge:)

Interesting is - the word hal (halr) is there in the Germanic book - which is also salt in Greek.

Edited June 20, 2013 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

In OLB some quotes where Salt-atha is used:

Then he chose among all his people and soldiers those who were accustomed to the sea

-> so not all salt-atha were accustomed to the sea

... but the soldiers who came from the mountainous countries were afraid of the sea

-> even some salt-atha came from the mountains and were afraid of the sea ????

Friends of the salt (in reference to the sea) is then questionable as etymology. Friends of salt-bars?

I think the meaning is 'paid to be loyal'. Palls as long as you pay them.

How salt and sold (what you pay,be-zahlt) can be connected is interesting: salt-salary is clearly connected, only OLB hints also 'sold' in soldiers is etymologic connected with salt.

In Dutch the soldij is the pay and the pay was salt.

So not only salary but also soldij and soldier coming from salt?

Salt is tightly together after vaporizing in the salt-pans -> very solid and solidair.

Soldiers ought to be solidair also. So Latin solidus based on salt? Why not :-)

Yes, they were not all sailors that's for sure. I totally agree with your post. solid, soldier, salt, salary, sale, sold - and many hal words, as the Greek form.

soldij from solid (coin) is probably itself from salt - as it's also a form of payment - the salt became given in coins but the etymology of solid imo could easily be behind both. Especially with salus (health)... solid (adj.) late 14c., from Old French solide "firm, dense, compact," from Latin solidus "firm, whole, entire" (related to salvus "safe"), from PIE root *sol- "whole" (cf. Greek holos "whole," Latin salus "health;" see safe (adj.)).

workers for salt - salt oather - men who worked under oath for salt - solid (trustworthy/loyal) friends/allies - soldiers

salt is solid in structure too, when thick through, like in the salt mines - in the mountains.

Edited June 20, 2013 by The Puzzler

[Mario Dantas]

One should ask, which is the oldest reference, the one in the Roman or in the Frisian language?

Edited June 20, 2013 by Mario Dantas

[Abramelin]

One should ask, which is the oldest reference, the one in the Roman or in the Frisian language?

I'd say the Roman one.

The Frisian one dates from either the 19th century (because I'm convinced it's a 19th century fake), or from the 13th century. It was a family chronicle, and several generations, spread out over some 6 centuries (up to some decades BCE) added something to the chronicle. If all they did was copy and add their own accounts, then "salt-atha" should be the original word, not the Roman one. However, if they added their own accounts, AND edited the already existing chronicle to more modern standards (and the last introductory letter was added in 1256 CE), then the Roman reference is first.

Following the OLB language, "salt-atha" can only mean "salt friends", and to me that is just a poor attempt of etymology.

For me it is obvious someone tried to give the Roman word "soldata" (or a similar spelling) an Old Frisian twist.

++++

EDIT:

If modern Spanish is anything to go by, then the original Latin/Roman word should be close to "soldado":

http://conjes.cactus...php?verb=soldar

+++

EDIT:

I think I found it:

< ital. soldāto ‘voor soldij gehuurde krijgsman’, eig. deelw. van soldāre ‘voor soldij huren’,

<ital. soldāto 'paid warrior, hired warrior, mercenary', (noun based on) past participle of soldāre or 'rent for pay'

http://www.etymologi...efwoord/soldaat

+++

EDIT:

Etimologia:

La parola soldato deriva da una parola del francese antico, essa stessa una derivazione di Solidarius, latino per indicare qualcuno che ha operato per denaro. Solidare in Latino significa "pagare" ed i soldati romani erano pagati in Solidi. L'origine comune per le parole soldato e pagamento rimane non solo in francese (soldat e solde) ma anche in altre lingue, come tedesco (soldat e sold), spagnolo (soldado e soldada) e olandese (soldaat e soldij) e inglese (soldier e sold) nel senso più ampio di venduto.

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldato

.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Abramelin

[Mario Dantas]

Has someone already mentioned the word "solder"?

Solder (/ˈsoʊldə/,^[1] /ˈsɒldə/^[1] or sometimes in USA /ˈsɒdər/^[2]) is a fusible metal alloy used to join together metal workpieces and having a melting point below that of the workpiece(s).

Alloys of lead and tin were universally used in the past, and are still available; they are particularly convenient for hand-soldering. Lead-free solder, somewhat less convenient for hand-soldering, is often used to avoid the environmental effect of lead.

Plumbers often use bars of solder, much thicker than the wire used for electrical applications. Jewelers often use solder in thin sheets which they cut into snippets.

The word solder comes from the Middle English word soudur, via Old French solduree and soulder, from the Latin solidare, meaning "to make solid".^[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solder

Edited June 20, 2013 by Mario Dantas

[Abramelin]

Which Latin verb do you think is the most likely source for the Dutch word for soldier, "soldaat":

solidare "to make solid, or soldāre "to hire someone for money" ?

[The Puzzler]

Following the OLB language, "salt-atha" can only mean "salt friends", and to me that is just a poor attempt of etymology.

.

You keep insisting this yet I think you are wrong.

The OLB has not given any etymology.

The word atha is used in a translation as friend - but the word friend is also used in the OLB - indicating that perhaps 'friend' also as atha is incorrect - or at least a different form of ' friend' as should be viewed as such in the term salt-atha. Otherwise it would say salt-freonds since this word is friend in the OLB.

The translation gives atha as friends - not the OLB language. The OLB language gives atha as a word that indicates a type of friend, the word atha may have fallen out of use now, so the true meaning of an oath-friend has been lost and obscured by the word friend in general, which shares no etymology with atha at all.

This is why, in both uses of it - in Athens and as soldiers, the term is more in line with an oath/ally/pact type friend, rather than a pal/mate/friend.

Edited June 21, 2013 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

Kind of an interesting article:

Weinfeld has pointed out that not

only was there a shared terminology for making treaties in

Akkadian, Hittite, Hebrew, Aramaic and Phoenician, but that

similar terms were used by the Greeks and Romans. Among these

terms are various words for cut, sometimes occurring in idiomatic

combinations, such as "to cut an oath" in Phoenician and in

Homeric Greek (1973).

http://www.csub.edu/~bjones/cut-deal.txt

[The Puzzler]

salt-atha - just because it's been TRANSLATED as soldier does not mean the word ever was nor is even related to soldier.

[Abramelin]

Sandbach, following Ottema's translation, translated "âtha" into 'friends', but like I already said, I couldn't find any (online) confirmation that it is the right translation.

Known Old Frisian words for 'friend' are "friænd" and "wine" (pron: weenuh) (think of Alewyn):

http://koeblergerhar...ries_tg_ne.html

Some quotes from the OLB:

Vppa rêd Minervas waerth hju Athenia heten: hwand sêide hju, tha aefter kvmand agon to wêtane, that wi hir navt thrvch lest ner weld kvmen send, men lik âtha vntfongen.

By the advice of Min-erva it was called Athens, because, she said, those who come after us ought to know that we are not here by cunning or violence, but were received as friends

Adel was-ne minlika skalk, bi sin fâra heth-er fêlo âtha wnnen. Dâna is-t kvmen thaet et folk him Atha-rik hêten heth,

Adel was an amiable young man, and in his travels he made many friends, so the people called him Atharik [rich in friends]

But here Ottema (and thus Sandbach) had a bit of a problem:

7. Lêt maen hja aefternêi hlâpa, sâ lêt maen thaet mith welhêd thrvch tha fâmna dva, til thju wi âtha aend frjunda winna fori lêtha aend fyandun.

7. If they are afterwards set free, it must be done with kindness by the maidens, in order that we may make them comrades and friends, instead of haters and enemies.

None of the quotes suggest anything with 'oath'.

And they translated "salt-atha" into 'soldiers', maybe just because it had everything to do with war, battle, fight and so on.

+++

EDIT:

Btw, in the 2d quote, about Adel, "skalk" is translated into "young man", but in reality it means serf, servant, slave ; villain. I think it should mean 'rascal'. I had to think of 'Del Boy' from the British series "Only Fools and Horses", lol.

.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

From the last quote in my former post I conclude that "âtha" is the opposite of 'hater'.

Something like 'buddy'.

[The Puzzler]

Sandbach, following Ottema's translation, translated "âtha" into 'friends', but like I already said, I couldn't find any (online) confirmation that it is the right translation.

Known Old Frisian words for 'friend' are "friænd" and "wine" (pron: weenuh) (think of Alewyn):

http://koeblergerhar...ries_tg_ne.html

Some quotes from the OLB:

Vppa rêd Minervas waerth hju Athenia heten: hwand sêide hju, tha aefter kvmand agon to wêtane, that wi hir navt thrvch lest ner weld kvmen send, men lik âtha vntfongen.

By the advice of Min-erva it was called Athens, because, she said, those who come after us ought to know that we are not here by cunning or violence, but were received as friends

Adel was-ne minlika skalk, bi sin fâra heth-er fêlo âtha wnnen. Dâna is-t kvmen thaet et folk him Atha-rik hêten heth,

Adel was an amiable young man, and in his travels he made many friends, so the people called him Atharik [rich in friends]

But here Ottema (and thus Sandbach) had a bit of a problem:

7. Lêt maen hja aefternêi hlâpa, sâ lêt maen thaet mith welhêd thrvch tha fâmna dva, til thju wi âtha aend frjunda winna fori lêtha aend fyandun.

7. If they are afterwards set free, it must be done with kindness by the maidens, in order that we may make them comrades and friends, instead of haters and enemies.

None of the quotes suggest anything with 'oath'.

And they translated "salt-atha" into 'soldiers', maybe just because it had everything to do with war, battle, fight and so on.

+++

EDIT:

Btw, in the 2d quote, about Adel, "skalk" is translated into "young man", but in reality it means serf, servant, slave ; villain. I think it should mean 'rascal'. I had to think of 'Del Boy' from the British series "Only Fools and Horses", lol.

.

I also said I couldn't find anything but in Frisian the word atha is clear to me in all forms from eth to âth - so to me the meaning of âtha is clearly in this word. In English this word is very common, did you see the 2 Aussie slang examples Wiki gave? lol It's used in place of 'yes' a lot. do you wanna go to the pub? "f-ing oath" - like that...

Seems steeped in Old Saxon too, which is even more reason to think it's the word used for âtha - the point is - the word means friends in a taking oath kind of way is my interpretation of it - so true, seems the word friends could be used for âtha but in reality if this was a word it's etymology and meaning would be steeped in this usage.

It's totally Germanic, did not come from Latin and would be a word used in the Fryan language. The flimsy example of proto they give seems ridiculous, imo there is no reason this word was not eth or âth or even ed to start with. The Eddas would also be a form of this word IMO even though they give this mish-mash of guesses: (I'm sure Snorri chose a Latin word to name the work, NOT!)

There are several theories concerning the origins of the word edda. One theory holds that it is identical to a word that means "great-grandmother" appearing in the Eddic poem Rígsþula.^[1] Another theory holds that edda derives from Old Norse óðr, "poetry." A third, proposed in 1895 by Eiríkr Magnússon, but since discredited, is that it derives from the Icelandic place name Oddi, site of the church and school where students, including Snorri Sturluson, were educated.^[2] The derivation of the word "Edda" as the name of Snorri Sturluson’s treatise on poetry from the Latin "edo", "I compose (poetry)" by analogy with "kredda", "superstition" from Latin "credo", "creed" is now widely accepted.

êth 200 und häufiger, âth, ê-th, â-th, afries., st. M. (a): nhd. Eid; ne. oath (N.); ÜG.: lat. iūrāmentum L 4, L 5, L 7, L 18, L 10, L 14, AB (82, 2), AB (82, 7); Vw.: s. bō-del-, dē-d-, fiā-, fog-id-, fre-th-o-, ful-l-, hand-, lê-d-, mê-n-, mendz-ing-, strī-d-, twe-lev-a-, wed-d-, wī-th-, wi-ther-, wrō-g-e-, -spil, -strī-d, -swar-a, -swer-inge, -to-ch-t; Hw.: vgl. got. aiþs*, an. eiðr, ae. āþ, as. êth*, ahd. eid; Q.: R, B, E, F, H, S, W, L 4, L 5, L 7, L 18, L 10, L 14, AB (82, 2), AB (82, 7); E.: germ. *aiþa-, *aiþaz, *aida-, *aidaz, st. M. (a), Eid; s. idg. *ai- (5), *oi-, Sb., bedeutsame Rede (?), Pokorny 11?; idg. *oito-, Sb., Weg, Pokorny 293; idg. *eidʰ-, V., gehen, Pokorny 295; idg. *ei- (1), *h₁ei-, V., gehen, Pokorny 293, Kluge s. u. Eid; W.: nfries. eed; W.: nnordfries. ith, iss; L.: Hh 22a, Rh 717b

êtha (1) 1 und häufiger, ê-th-a, afries., sw. M. (n): nhd. Eideshelfer, Eidhelfer; ne. compurgator; Vw.: s. even-; Hw.: s. a-th-th-a; E.: s. ê-th; L.: Hh 22a

êtha (2) 1, ê-th-a, afries., sw. V. (1): nhd. beeidigen?, beschwören?, vereidigen; ne. testify an oath; Hw.: vgl. ahd. eidōn; Q.: W; E.: s. ê-th; L.: Hh 22a, Hh 155, Rh 719b

*-ethe, afries., F., Suff.: Vw.: s. *-ithe

Old Saxon

Alternative forms

• ēþ
  

Etymology

From Proto-Germanic *aiþaz, whence also Old English āþ, Old Frisian ēth, Old High German eid, Old Norse eiðr, Gothic (aiþs). Ultimately from Proto-Indo-European *oyt-.

Noun

eth m

1. oath
   

Edited June 21, 2013 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

Your links to the Aussie slang were dead. Click on them, and you'll know.

And now try to get that "oath" work in the OLB examples I posted.

[The Puzzler]

Your links to the Aussie slang were dead. Click on them, and you'll know.

And now try to get that "oath" work in the OLB examples I posted.

I can't replace atha with oath but maybe with oather if it was a word that once existed, meaning a person who was a friend by oath.

As you showed the 2 words show in one sentence:

comrades is used for atha there - because again, it's not a 'friend' as such but an oath-friend - friends is based in free/love - more like because you love or care for each other - with no strings attached, atha has strings, alliance, pacts, treaties oaths and the like.

til thju wi âtha aend frjunda

[The Puzzler]

Greek tradition c.400 BCE

Walter Burkert has shown that since Lycurgus of Athens (d. 324 BCE), who held that "it is the oath which holds democracy together", religion, morality and political organization had been linked by the oath, and the oath and its prerequisite altar had become the basis of both civil and criminal, as well as international law.Burkert, Greek Religion, trans. Raffan, Harvard University Press (1985), 250ff

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath

[Abramelin]

I can't replace atha with oath but maybe with oather if it was a word that once existed, meaning a person who was a friend by oath.

As you showed the 2 words show in one sentence:

comrades is used for atha there - because again, it's not a 'friend' as such but an oath-friend - friends is based in free/love - more like because you love or care for each other - with no strings attached, atha has strings, alliance, pacts, treaties oaths and the like.

til thju wi âtha aend frjunda

The quote about how Athens got its name according to the OLB proves you wrong. The Fryans were strangers in Greece, but they got a very friendly welcome, like they were old friends.

What does that have to do with any "oath"?

=

About "comrade":

comrade (n.)

1590s, "one who shares the same room," from Middle French camarade (16c.), from Spanish camarada "chamber mate," originally "chamberful," from Latin camera (see camera).

http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none

It's like a pal, a buddy, someone you trust and share a room with. Just another word for 'friend'.

Nothing to do with any "oath".

I don't know how things go in Australia, but when I meet someone I trust and like, I won't ask him/her to swear on the Bible before they become my friend, buddy, pal, whatever.

.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Abramelin

[Mario Dantas]

Abramelin,

Which Latin verb do you think is the most likely source for the Dutch word for soldier, "soldaat":

solidare "to make solid, or soldāre "to hire someone for money" ?

I actually don´t know for sure, but in my opinion, the word solidare "to make solid" is the probable source for soldier, or soldaat, in Dutch, as you have mentioned, in the sense that we could perhaps link it to the manufacture of arms or other metal implements. The term salt atha, i think would be derived not from the word salt itself but from solder or soldering:

There is evidence that soldering was employed as early as 5000 years ago in Mesopotamia.^[1] Soldering and brazing are thought to have arisen very early in the history of metal-working, probably before 4000 BCE [2]. Sumerian swords from ~3000 BCE were assembled using hard soldering.

Soldering was historically used to make jewelry items, cooking ware and tools, as well as other uses such as in assembling stained glass.

https://en.wikipedia.../wiki/Soldering

Could the word for the Etruscan god of fire, Sethlans, which is linked to Vulcan and Hephaestus, be in any way connected too?

In Etruscan mythology, Sethlans was the god of fire, the forge, metalworking, and by extension craftsmanship in general, the equivalent, though their names share no etymology, toGreekHephaestus and the Roman Vulcan. Sethlans is one of the indigenous Etruscan gods. In Etruscan arts Sethlans may be identified by his tools, the hammer and tongs of the blacksmith, and by the pileus or conical cap he wears.

http://en.wikipedia....ans_(mythology)

The craft of Hephaestus

Hephaestus had his own palace on Olympus, containing his workshop with anvil and twenty bellows that worked at his bidding.^[5]Hephaestus crafted much of the magnificent equipment of the gods, and almost any finely-wrought metalwork imbued with powers that appears in Greek myth is said to have been forged by Hephaestus. He designed Hermes' winged helmet and sandals, the Aegisbreastplate, Aphrodite's famed girdle, Agamemnon's staff of office,^[6]Achilles' armor, Heracles' bronze clappers, Helios' chariot, the shoulder of Pelops, and Eros' bow and arrows. In later accounts, Hephaestus worked with the help of the chthonic Cyclopes—among them his assistants in the forge, Brontes, Steropes and Pyracmon.^[7][8]

Hephaestus also built automatons of metal to work for him. This included tripods that walked to and from Mount Olympus. He gave to the blinded Orion his apprentice Cedalion as a guide. Prometheus stole the fire that he gave to man from Hephaestus's forge. Hephaestus also created the gift that the gods gave to man, the woman Pandora and her pithos. Being a skilled blacksmith, Hephaestus created all the thrones in the Palace of Olympus.^[9]

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Hephaestus

I also found the word sallet, for helmet, to have a possible association:

The sallet (also called celata,salade and schaller) was a war helmet that replaced the bascinet in Italy, western and northern Europe and Hungary during the mid-15th century. In Italy, France and England the armet helmet was also popular, but in Germany the sallet became almost universal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sallet

Although the term is relatively modern i think that there could be a relation to the wording salt atha, you have been discussing, but that is just my opinion.

Regards,

Mario Dantas

Edited June 21, 2013 by Mario Dantas

[NO-ID-EA]

Right on cue this link came to my notice today , found in Bulgaria , said to be the oldest settlement found in Europe . 4,400 to 4,200 ish ,

www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=58682

Says for Millenia salt was the most valued commodity , salt was money.......The inhabitants boiled brine from salt springs nearby, baked it in kilns , and made salt bricks, which were then exchanged for goods with neighboring tribes .

Salt-Atha , i could see it being used maybe in the context of buying someones friendship , or loyalty , like in a standing army .

[Abramelin]

If I were sailing the seas, I wouldn't need any payment in salt; I would extract salt from the sea myself.

Salt was only valuable for those who lived far inland.