Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

[flashman7870]

Some interesting thoughts Puzz,

About Oeral (Mountains) I think of a possible connection with the Dutch word "over-al", meaning litteraly every-where.

In the case of Oeral mointains it could mean that the mountain range was stretched over the full length.

http://www.etymologi...refwoord/overal

Or... Oriental Mountains. Makes waaay more sense.

Why would the Russians name the Urals after Wr-Alda- outside of Alewyn's interpretation of Twiskland as Russia, there is absolutely no mention of them that I can think of.

Urals are the Oriental Mountains, dividing the West from the Orient.

[Van Gorp]

This conversation is incapable of moving on- and it's because there is so little to work with.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

If you say Oriental Mountains makes way more sense then Overal Mountains, i wonder why you think Overal Mountains makes not much sense.

Maybe you can explain.

As you are really eager to find sense, you will have read the link i assume.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Van Gorp

[flashman7870]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

If you say Oriental Mountains makes way more sense then Overal Mountains, i wonder why you think Overal Mountains makes not much sense.

Maybe you can explain.

As you are really eager to find sense, you will have read the link i assume.

I'm on a school computer, and that and the Wiktionary are both blocked.

Why would latter day Steppe Folk or Slavics, neither being Fryans, name their mounts after Wralda?

[Van Gorp]

I'm on a school computer, and that and the Wiktionary are both blocked.

Why would latter day Steppe Folk or Slavics, neither being Fryans, name their mounts after Wralda?

What a strange blocking policy in that school seems to me, but then I will explain bit further.

Maybe that didn't come across in my earlier posts.

I'm not really of the opinion that the mounts are called by the people after WRADLA.

But what I think is that the connection of a germanic root "over" like in OVER-ALDA, can be on the base of the word OERAL.

The link made it clear that the expression "overal!" like calling everyone on deck, is taken over by the Russians from Dutch.

So dutch (or germanic or frysian or what you want to call it) roots in Russian language is not that strange and actually is the case.

Like OERA in OERA LINDA is actually meaning OVER.

OVERAL (or OERAL) can mean a mountain range OVER the full length (from North to South).

[The Puzzler]

Have you guys seriously forgotten? You are discussing the Altai Mountains and the meaning of Wr-Alda as Truly Ancient 600 pages ago. What's next, is Abramelin going to tell us all about his Aldland in the Himalayas (or Himmelaias to Puzzler, lol)?

This conversation is incapable of moving on- and it's because there is so little to work with. There is only one example of OLB language and history, and that is the OLB itself. This discussion is like an Ouroboros, or the Midgard Serpent.

Sometimes we re-go-over things because first time round it might not have been clarified for us to get an answer and I believe we are talking about the Ural Mountains now not the Altai.

It never gets old.

Edited September 30, 2014 by The Puzzler

[Ott]

This conversation is incapable of moving on- and it's because there is so little to work with. There is only one example of OLB language and history, and that is the OLB itself.

Little too work with? There's much more than you can handle.

The problem is that most here only work with one or two translations.

Study the original text.

It is way too huge to just have been a joke or experiment.

[Ott]

The OLB letter that usually stands for "TH", sometimes is used for "HT".

Some examples (note: always following "C"):

[008/18]

SÉLV.SJOCHTA.FINDA.

[026/03]

HJARA SLACHTA

[032/17]

THA NÍGUNG TO RJUCHT

[044/24]

DAHWILE HJA AL SINA LÉKA UT FÁCHT HÉDE.

[052/22]

ACHTTANTICH JÉR FORTHER.

I also found one example (so far) of T and H being spelled separately:

[039/18]

THA WILDET FOLK AK FON SOKKA HÁ.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Othar Winis

[The Puzzler]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th_(digraph)

Might help explain something but would need more time than I have now.

[The Puzzler]

Van Gorp, do you say and spell it Oeral Mountains in your language? (Not Ural Mts)

By the way, what is your language? I can see your country but am ignorant of your language, sorry. Is it like Dutch or French..?

Edited October 1, 2014 by The Puzzler

[Van Gorp]

Van Gorp, do you say and spell it Oeral Mountains in your language? (Not Ural Mts)

By the way, what is your language? I can see your country but am ignorant of your language, sorry. Is it like Dutch or French..?

Yes Puzzler, we say and write Oeral Gebergte (Mountains).

My mothertongue is Flemish, but are customed to say it is just like Dutch.

I don't know if officially there is any difference, but Flemish is more related to the spoken tongue which has generally bit softer voices then the more northern Dutch from the Netherlands.

French is my second tongue, because we need to be able to talk with our fellow countryman the Walloons :-)

[flashman7870]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

If you say Oriental Mountains makes way more sense then Overal Mountains, i wonder why you think Overal Mountains makes not much sense.

Maybe you can explain.

As you are really eager to find sense, you will have read the link i assume.

Because the Finno-Ugric, or Findas Folk, the only people living around the Urals, would NOT speak a language in common with the Fryans. It just makes sense that the mountains which have traditionally drew the border between the West and the Orient would be called the "Oriental Mountains"

[The Puzzler]

What a strange blocking policy in that school seems to me, but then I will explain bit further.

Maybe that didn't come across in my earlier posts.

I'm not really of the opinion that the mounts are called by the people after WRADLA.

But what I think is that the connection of a germanic root "over" like in OVER-ALDA, can be on the base of the word OERAL.

The link made it clear that the expression "overal!" like calling everyone on deck, is taken over by the Russians from Dutch.

So dutch (or germanic or frysian or what you want to call it) roots in Russian language is not that strange and actually is the case.

Like OERA in OERA LINDA is actually meaning OVER.

OVERAL (or OERAL) can mean a mountain range OVER the full length (from North to South).

Thanks for your answer on language, very helpful.

Yes, I see. Oer-al does equate to that. over and ura both have 'wider' - a wide length. overall - a BELT

As attested by Sigismund von Herberstein, in the 16th century Russians called the range by a variety of names derived from the Russian words for rock (stone) and belt.

http://en.wikipedia..../Ural_Mountains

Edited October 1, 2014 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

Because the Finno-Ugric, or Findas Folk, the only people living around the Urals, would NOT speak a language in common with the Fryans. It just makes sense that the mountains which have traditionally drew the border between the West and the Orient would be called the "Oriental Mountains"

The names have been Russian language based. I think Van Gorp addressed this and I just linked in post above Wiki article saying so.

Edited October 1, 2014 by The Puzzler

[flashman7870]

What a strange blocking policy in that school seems to me, but then I will explain bit further.

Maybe that didn't come across in my earlier posts.

I'm not really of the opinion that the mounts are called by the people after WRADLA.

But what I think is that the connection of a germanic root "over" like in OVER-ALDA, can be on the base of the word OERAL.

The link made it clear that the expression "overal!" like calling everyone on deck, is taken over by the Russians from Dutch.

So dutch (or germanic or frysian or what you want to call it) roots in Russian language is not that strange and actually is the case.

Like OERA in OERA LINDA is actually meaning OVER.

OVERAL (or OERAL) can mean a mountain range OVER the full length (from North to South).

Agreed. Every single international site is blocked on the computers, for Christ knows why (I am proablby going to ask the IT department about it.), which is super annoying since I do basically all of my OLB stuff at school (mainly because the website isn't blocked here, and TBH I would rather go on my history forum or reddit if I have the option, lol). I've been trying to do some reading on the Red Cliffs the past few days, but apparently there isn't a single US website that talks about it. Grr!

(Speaking of which, could anyone copy paste a bunch of information about the red cliffs? Prefferably in English, as google translate is also blocked here (you can use it to 'translate' a website, thus making it appear past blocks).

I've never heard anything about Russian sailors saying 'overall!', but it makes sense- they're sailors. Crews are often international, and they learn quite a bit of other cultures in ports. Find me a medieval or really pre age of sail reference to a Russian saying 'Overal', and we'll talk.

[Abramelin]

Kananafates? :-)

You will remember I once translated "Cananefates" as "the people from the Canaan settlement" (Canaan Nefat) based on the Hebrew word "nefat" which means settlement.

In Hebrew "Kane'an" (or something) means "lower". Or more general, "lower lands", "low lands".

We know the Phoenicians (with Hebrews travelling along with them) visited the tin mines in Cornwall. It wouldn't surprize me if they had travelled a bit further along the Channel, and entered the North Sea. Maybe even shipwrecked, run aground on the ancient Dutch coast, and settled there.

All this based on a name no one is really able to translate, combined with Theo Vennemann's theory about a Semitic (ie. Punic) influence on Germanic languages. A controversial theory, btw.

[Abramelin]

I have recently become father and had some short nights.

Will take some rest first.

Congratulations !!

[Abramelin]

How so?

Because I am convinced that - from reading the OLB - we should get the impression that Fo(t), Buddha and Jes-us are one and the same person, and then the date should be something like 600 BCE. Not 2200 BCE.

[The Puzzler]

Because I am convinced that - from reading the OLB - we should get the impression that Fo(t), Buddha and Jes-us are one and the same person, and then the date should be something like 600 BCE. Not 2200 BCE.

Guatama Buddha is only considered the Buddha of our age.

Buddhists do not consider Siddhartha Gautama to have been the only Buddha. The Pali Canon refers to many previous ones (see List of the 28 Buddhas), while the Mahayana tradition additionally has many Buddhas of celestial origin (see Amitabha or Vairocana as examples, for lists of many thousands of Buddha names see Taishō Shinshū Daizōkyō numbers 439–448). A common Theravada and Mahayana Buddhist belief is that the next Buddha will be one named Maitreya (Pali: Metteyya).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhahood

[Abramelin]

Guatama Buddha is only considered the Buddha of our age.

Buddhists do not consider Siddhartha Gautama to have been the only Buddha. The Pali Canon refers to many previous ones (see List of the 28 Buddhas), while the Mahayana tradition additionally has many Buddhas of celestial origin (see Amitabha or Vairocana as examples, for lists of many thousands of Buddha names see Taishō Shinshū Daizōkyō numbers 439–448). A common Theravada and Mahayana Buddhist belief is that the next Buddha will be one named Maitreya (Pali: Metteyya).

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Buddhahood

My opinion is based on Cornelis over de Linden's library, and his library contained a book called "The Ruins" by Volney.

I have posted about this before.

[Abramelin]

Because the Finno-Ugric, or Findas Folk, the only people living around the Urals, would NOT speak a language in common with the Fryans. It just makes sense that the mountains which have traditionally drew the border between the West and the Orient would be called the "Oriental Mountains"

I hope you remember my post about these (possibly) Finno-Ugric people being able to converse with the Fryans (a Germanic people) in a relatively short time. I really don't think it is likely that these socalled "Magjar" were able to converse with the Fryans. Hungarian (ie: the Magyar language) is one of the most difficult languages to master.

[Abramelin]

You will remember I once translated "Cananefates" as "the people from the Canaan settlement" (Canaan Nefat) based on the Hebrew word "nefat" which means settlement.

In Hebrew "Kane'an" (or something) means "lower". Or more general, "lower lands", "low lands".

We know the Phoenicians (with Hebrews travelling along with them) visited the tin mines in Cornwall. It wouldn't surprize me if they had travelled a bit further along the Channel, and entered the North Sea. Maybe even shipwrecked, run aground on the ancient Dutch coast, and settled there.

All this based on a name no one is really able to translate, combined with Theo Vennemann's theory about a Semitic (ie. Punic) influence on Germanic languages. A controversial theory, btw.

Actually, if this little (and perhaps silly) etymology of mine proves to be truth, then the OLB has made a point in its advantage.

Some participants of this thread may object about my stressing the (possible) history/presence of Semites in the Low Lands, but if you have read the OLB, you should know that they might have visited the Low Lands.

Except some Phoenician vase (found near the Afsluitdijk during its construction) there is no physical proof they actually visited the Low Lands (that's the Netherlands, Belgium, Northern Germany, and Denmark).

.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Abramelin

[The Puzzler]

My opinion is based on Cornelis over de Linden's library, and his library contained a book called "The Ruins" by Volney.

I have posted about this before.

Yes, so I found The Ruins online and have just spent the last hour looking some of it over.

The modern Aderbidjan, which was a part of Medea, the mountains of Koulderstan, and those of Diarbekr, abound with subterranean canals, by means of which the ancient inhabitants conveyed water to their parched soil in order to fertilize it. It was regarded as a meritorious act and a religious duty prescribed by Zoroaster, who, instead of preaching celibacy, mortifications, and other pretended virtues of the monkish sort, repeats continually in the passages that are preserved respecting him in the Sad-der and the Zend-avesta:

Bolded part there sounds a bit OLBish.

In the rear of these, approach the smaller standards of a multitude of gods—male, female, and hermaphrodite. These are friends and relations of the principal gods, who have passed their lives in wars among themselves, and their followers imitate them. These gods have need of nothing, and they are constantly receiving presents; they are omnipotent and omnipresent, and a priest, by muttering a few words, shuts them up in an idol or a pitcher, to sell their favors for his own benefit.

Beyond these, that cloud of standards, which, on a yellow ground, common to them all, bear various emblems, are those of the same god, who reins under different names in the nations of the East. The Chinese adores him in Fot,* the Japanese in Budso, the Ceylonese in Bedhou, the people of Laos in Chekia, of Pegu in Phta, of Siam in Sommona-Kodom, of Thibet in Budd and in La. Agreeing in some points of his history, they all celebrate his life of penitence, his mortifications, his fastings, his functions of mediator and expiator, the enmity between him and another god, his adversary, their battles, and his ascendency. But as they disagree on the means of pleasing him, they dispute about rites and ceremonies, and about the dogmas of interior doctrine and of public doctrine.

The note from Fot*

The original name of this god is Baits, which in Hebrew

signifies an egg. The Arabs pronounce it Baidh, giving to

the dh an emphatic sound which makes it approach to dz.

Kempfer, an acurate traveler, writes it Budso, which must be

pronounced Boudso, whence is derived the name of Budsoist

and of Bonze, applied to the priests. Clement of

Alexandria, in his Stromata, writes it Bedou, as it is

pronounced also by the Chingulais; and Saint Jerome, Boudda

and Boutta. At Thibet they call it Budd; and hence the name

of the country called Boud-tan and Ti-budd: it was in this

province that this system of religion was first inculcated

in Upper Asia; La is a corruption of Allah, the name of God

in the Syriac language, from which many of the eastern

dialects appear to be derived. The Chinese having neither b

nor d, have supplied their place by f and t, and have

therefore said Fout.

http://www.gutenberg...97-h/1397-h.htm

If these are genuine names, and I'm not seeing Jesus in there, just Fot and Buda, they seem very well known names of antiquity that don't rely on Volney's mention of them to have existed imo.

Edited October 2, 2014 by The Puzzler

[Ott]

... I'm not seeing Jesus in there, just Fot and Buda...

Ye-sus or Yes-us in Volney:

relevant Volney fragments 14 June 2011, post #5462, old thread:

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Here's a few fragments of The Ruines by C. F. [Constantin Francois de] Volney, of which Cornelis Over de Linden had two copies in his library.

Read online here: http://www.gutenberg...97-h/1397-h.htm

so that the existence of Jesus is no better proved than that of Osiris and Hercules, or that of Fot or Beddou, with whom, says M. de Guignes, the Chinese continually confound him, for they never call Jesus by any other name than Fot.

Christianity, or the Allegorical Worship of the Sun, under the cabalistical names of Chrish-en, or Christ, and Ye-sus or Jesus.

"Finally, these traditions went so far as to mention even his astrological and mythological names, and inform us that he was called sometimes Chris, that is to say, preserver,* and from that, ye Indians, you have made your god Chrish-en or Chrish-na; and, ye Greek and Western Christians, your Chris-tos, son of Mary, is the same; sometimes he is called Yes, by the union of three letters, which by their numerical value form the number 608, one of the solar periods.** And this, Europeans, is the name which, with the Latin termination, is become your Yes-us or Jesus, the ancient and cabalistic name attributed to young Bacchus, the clandestine son (nocturnal) of the Virgin Minerva, who, in the history of his whole life, and even of his death, brings to mind the history of the god of the Christians, that is, of the star of day, of which they are each of them the emblems."

Edited October 3, 2014 by Othar Winis

[The Puzzler]

Ye-sus or Yes-us in Volney:

I meant mention of Jesus in that particular paragraph I posted, but yes, you have shown that Fot, Buddha and Jesus are mentioned as same, I didn't get to that.

Maybe Volney wrote the OLB....he seems very intelligent and 'strange' enough to have done it and pulled it off....

This part is still with me: prescribed by Zoroaster, who, instead of preaching celibacy, mortifications, and other pretended virtues of the monkish sort,

Still, if this was so, that Buddha, Jesus and Fot were known to be the same, it doesn't seem that strange that the OLB has also said this. The OLB person who lived when Atland sank was an earlier, possible first incarnation of Fot/Buddha/Jesus. Only the Chinese called him Fot.

for they never call Jesus by any other name than Fot.

His first name was Jessos, but the priests, who hated him, called him Fo, that is, false; the people called him Krishna, that is, shepherd; and his Frisian friend called him Buddha (purse), because he had in his head a treasure of wisdom, and in his heart a treasure of love.

At last he was obliged to flee from the wrath of the priests; but wherever he went his teaching had preceded him, whilst his enemies followed him like his shadow. When Jessos had thus travelled for twelve years he died; but his friends preserved his teaching, and spread it wherever they found listeners.

What do you think the priests did then? That I must tell you, and you must give your best attention to it. Moreover, you must keep guard against their acts and their tricks with all the strength that Wr-alda has given you. While the doctrine of Jessos was thus spreading over the earth, the false priests went to the land of his birth to make his death known. They said they were his friends, and they pretended to show great sorrow by tearing their clothes and shaving their heads. They went to live in caves in the mountains, but in them they had hid all their treasures, and they made in them images of Jessos.

Edited October 3, 2014 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

Some of them believe that she, with her children, floated down upon the foam of the Ganges, and that that is the reason why the river is called the Sacred Ganges. But the priests, who came from another country, traced out these people and had them burnt, so that they do not dare to declare openly their creed. In this country all the priests are fat and rich. In their churches there are all kinds of monstrous images, many of them of gold. To the west of the Punjab are the Yren (Iraniers), or morose (Drangianen), the Gedrosten (Gedrosiers), or runaways, and the Urgetten, or forgotten. These names are given by the priests out of spite, (like Fo..?) because they fled from their customs and religion. On their arrival our forefathers likewise established themselves to the east of the Punjab, but on account of the priests they likewise went to the west.

I wonder if these are the same priests/same priestly class, that had also been the ones who hated Jessos, and called him Fo.

6th century BC Heraclitus (apud Clemens Protrepticus 12), who curses the magi for their "impious" rites and rituals

Victor H. Mair provides archaeological and linguistic evidence suggesting that Chinese wū (巫 "shaman; witch, wizard; magician", Old Chinese *myag) was a loanword from Old Persian *maguš "magician; magi".[7] He describes:

The recent discovery at an early Chou site of two figurines with unmistakably Caucasoid or Europoid feature is startling prima facie evidence of East-West interaction during the first half of the first millennium Before the Current Era. It is especially interesting that one of the figurines bears on the top of his head the clearly incised graph ☩ which identifies him as a wu (< *myag).[7]

These figurines, which are dated circa 8th century BC, were discovered during a 1980 excavation of a Zhou Dynasty palace in Fufeng County, Shaanxi Province.

Mair connects the ancient Bronzeware script for wu 巫 "shaman" (a cross with potents) with a Western heraldic symbol of magicians, the cross potent ☩, which "can hardly be attributable to sheer coincidence or chance independent origination."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magi