Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

[Ott]

Most interestingly, some properties of the Finda priesthoods are described in the second part of the 'oldest doctrine' (FORM.LÉR):

[100/02]

EMONG FINDA.S FOLK SEND WAN.WÍSA.

THÉR THRVCH HJARA OVER.FINDINGRIKHÉD AL SA ÀRG SEND EWRDEN

THÀT HJA HJARA SELVA WIS MÁKJA ÀND THA INEWIDA BITJUGA

THÀT HJA THET BESTA DÉL SEND FON WR.ALDA.

THET HJARA GÁST THET BESTE DÉL IS FON WR.ALDA.S GÁST

ÀND THET WR.ALDA ALLÉNA MÉI THÀNKJA THRVCH HELPE HJAR.IS BRYN.

Sandbach p.139

Among Finda's people there are false teachers [i.e. 'vain-wise'],

who, by their over-inventiveness, have become so wicked

that they make themselves and their adherents [i.e. the laymen] believe

that they are the best part of Wr-alda,

that their spirit is the best part of Wr-alda's spirit,

and that Wr-alda can only think by the help of their brains.

[100/21] and Sandbach p.139

MEN FINDAS FOLK IS EN ÀRG FOLK.

HWAND AFSKÉN THA WAN.WÍSA THÉRA.

HJARA SELVA WIS MÁKJA THÀT HJA DROCHTNE SEND.

SA HÀVON HJA TO FÁRA THA VN.EWIDA FALXA DROCHTNE.ESKÉPEN.

TO KÉTHANDE ALLER WÉIKES THÀT THISSA DROCHTNE WRALDA ESKÉPEN HÀVE.

MITH AL HWAT THÉR INNE IS. ~

Finda's people are a wicked people,

for although they [the 'vain-wise' of them] presumptuously

pretend among themselves that they are gods,

they proclaim the unconsecrated false gods,

and declare everywhere that these idols created the world

and all that therein is—

GÍRIGA DROCHTNE FVL NÍD ÀND TORN.

THAM ÉRATH ÀND THJANATH WILLATH WÉSA. THRVCH THA MÀNNISKA.

THÉR BLOD ÀND OFFER WILLA ÀND SKÀT ASKJA. ~

greedy idols, full of envy and anger,

who desire to be served and honoured by the people,

and who exact [or: demand] bloody sacrifices and rich offerings;

MEN THI WAN.WISA FALXA MANNA

THAM HJARA SELVA GODIS SKALKA JEFTHA PRESTERA NOMA LÉTA.

BÜRATH ÀND SÁMNATH ÀND GETTHATH ALDAM TOFARA DROCHTNE

THÉRER NAVT NE SEND VMBET SELVA TO BIHALDANDE.

but these presumptuous ['vain-wise'] and false men,

who call themselves God's servants and priests,

receive and collect everything in the name of the idols

that have no real existence, for their own benefit.

ALDAM BIDRÍWATH HJA MITH EN RUM EMOD.

THRVCHDAM HJA HJARA SELVA DROCHTNE WÁNE

THÉR AN NINMAN ANDERT SKELDICH NE SEND.

They do all this with an easy conscience,

as they think themselves gods

not answerable to any one.

SEND THÉR SVME THAM HJARA RENKA FRODA ÀNDET BÁR MAKJA

ALSA WRDON HJA THRVCH HJARA RAKKERA FÀT ÀND VMBIRA LASTER VRBARNAD

ELLA MITH FÉLO STÁTSKA PLÉGUM HJARA FALXA DROCHTNE TO.N ÉRE.

MEN IN TRVTH. ALLÉNA THÉRVMBE THÀT HJA.RA NAVT SKÁDA NE SKOLDE.

If there are some who discover their tricks and expose them,

they hand them over to the executioners to be burnt for their calumnies,

with solemn ceremonies in honour of the false gods;

but really in order to save themselves.

[Ott]

A fragment suggesting that to be considered of Finda's blood is more about someones behavior, than about skincolour (or actual descent):

[043/25]

SAHWERSA THÉR ÉNIS IMMAN WÉRE. SÁ ÀRG

THÀT I VS GVNG VRRÉDE BY THA FYAND.

PÁDA ÀND TO PÁDA WÉS. VMBE VSA FLÍBURGA TO NAKA

JEFTHA THES NACHTIS THÉRIN TO GLUPA

THAM WÉRE ALLÉNA WROCHT UT FINDA.S BLOD.

Sandbach p.63 (poor translation)

If any man should prove a traitor

and show to our enemies

the paths leading to our places of refuge,

or creep into them by night,

he must be the offspring of Finda;

More literally:

If someone once were so evil,

that he would betray us to the enemy,

show (them) paths and access roads that lead to our 'fleeburghs' (hidden strongholds),

or to creep into them by night,

then he were only wrought of Finda's blood.

[Ott]

Some other fragments suggest that Finda's land was situated more in the east and that at least some Finda peoples looked more Mongolian (Tartars).

[136/11] Buda a.k.a. Krisen etc

IN.T HIRTE FON FINDA.S LÁND VPPET BERCHTA

LÉID EN DEL THÉR IS KÉTHEN KASAMÍR.

Sandbach p.185

In the heart of Findasland, upon a mountain,

lies a plain called Kasamyr (Cashmere)

[157/07] Adel

THA TARTARA IS EN BRUN FINDAS FOLK

Sandbach p.213

The Tartars are a brown tribe of Finda's people

[204/03] Adel

THA TARTARA SEND EN DÉL FON FINDA.S SLACHTE

Sandbach p.245

The Tartars are a branch of Finda's race

But these fragments are relatively recent, so the concept may have changed, or it simply differed between the various authors.

[Passing Time]

Most interestingly, some properties of the Finda priesthoods are described in the second part of the 'oldest doctrine' (FORM.LÉR):

[100/02]

EMONG FINDA.S FOLK SEND WAN.WÍSA.

THÉR THRVCH HJARA OVER.FINDINGRIKHÉD AL SA ÀRG SEND EWRDEN

THÀT HJA HJARA SELVA WIS MÁKJA ÀND THA INEWIDA BITJUGA

THÀT HJA THET BESTA DÉL SEND FON WR.ALDA.

THET HJARA GÁST THET BESTE DÉL IS FON WR.ALDA.S GÁST

ÀND THET WR.ALDA ALLÉNA MÉI THÀNKJA THRVCH HELPE HJAR.IS BRYN.

Sandbach p.139

Among Finda's people there are false teachers [i.e. 'vain-wise'],

who, by their over-inventiveness, have become so wicked

that they make themselves and their adherents [i.e. the laymen] believe

that they are the best part of Wr-alda,

that their spirit is the best part of Wr-alda's spirit,

and that Wr-alda can only think by the help of their brains.

[100/21] and Sandbach p.139

MEN FINDAS FOLK IS EN ÀRG FOLK.

HWAND AFSKÉN THA WAN.WÍSA THÉRA.

HJARA SELVA WIS MÁKJA THÀT HJA DROCHTNE SEND.

SA HÀVON HJA TO FÁRA THA VN.EWIDA FALXA DROCHTNE.ESKÉPEN.

TO KÉTHANDE ALLER WÉIKES THÀT THISSA DROCHTNE WRALDA ESKÉPEN HÀVE.

MITH AL HWAT THÉR INNE IS. ~

Finda's people are a wicked people,

for although they [the 'vain-wise' of them] presumptuously

pretend among themselves that they are gods,

they proclaim the unconsecrated false gods,

and declare everywhere that these idols created the world

and all that therein is—

GÍRIGA DROCHTNE FVL NÍD ÀND TORN.

THAM ÉRATH ÀND THJANATH WILLATH WÉSA. THRVCH THA MÀNNISKA.

THÉR BLOD ÀND OFFER WILLA ÀND SKÀT ASKJA. ~

greedy idols, full of envy and anger,

who desire to be served and honoured by the people,

and who exact [or: demand] bloody sacrifices and rich offerings;

MEN THI WAN.WISA FALXA MANNA

THAM HJARA SELVA GODIS SKALKA JEFTHA PRESTERA NOMA LÉTA.

BÜRATH ÀND SÁMNATH ÀND GETTHATH ALDAM TOFARA DROCHTNE

THÉRER NAVT NE SEND VMBET SELVA TO BIHALDANDE.

but these presumptuous ['vain-wise'] and false men,

who call themselves God's servants and priests,

receive and collect everything in the name of the idols

that have no real existence, for their own benefit.

ALDAM BIDRÍWATH HJA MITH EN RUM EMOD.

THRVCHDAM HJA HJARA SELVA DROCHTNE WÁNE

THÉR AN NINMAN ANDERT SKELDICH NE SEND.

They do all this with an easy conscience,

as they think themselves gods

not answerable to any one.

SEND THÉR SVME THAM HJARA RENKA FRODA ÀNDET BÁR MAKJA

ALSA WRDON HJA THRVCH HJARA RAKKERA FÀT ÀND VMBIRA LASTER VRBARNAD

ELLA MITH FÉLO STÁTSKA PLÉGUM HJARA FALXA DROCHTNE TO.N ÉRE.

MEN IN TRVTH. ALLÉNA THÉRVMBE THÀT HJA.RA NAVT SKÁDA NE SKOLDE.

If there are some who discover their tricks and expose them,

they hand them over to the executioners to be burnt for their calumnies,

with solemn ceremonies in honour of the false gods;

but really in order to save themselves.

Any chance DROCHTNE might be doctrine J.O (like an anagram)

[Passing Time]

I asked the same, but Abe rightly pointed out to me, the text actually says it 'fo' means 'falx' - which seems to translate as false, unless one can find somewhere where the word falx is actually relative to foe.

hi Puz.....our copyist in the 13th century , does not have to define the meaning of many words, presumably because they only have one meaning.....if he has to define FO , the mere fact he has to do it , leads you to think this is because there is more than one meaning for the word.........the fact he plumped for explaining it as faux, maybe does not prove that is what the original author intended many years before......possibly ???

Edited March 26, 2015 by Passing Time

[Passing Time]

The Arctic Home in the Vedas...Page 184-185

Tilak says that the earliest writtings like the siddanta say that there were only 10 named months , in each of these months there was a Soma ritual performed by the priests , like the Roman named months (before Numa added 2 months to the beginning of the year ) the were named similarly to the Romans ie September ( 7th month ) through to December (10th month ) proving dec (10th ) was the last month,as it is now moved to the 12th

why was this ?? was the earth nearer to the sun , and therefore completed its revolution faster, or was it travelling/revolving faster

.

neither according to Tilak....The reason was the 10 named months , were those that some light shone , either as 24 hour daylight , or the perpetual dawn/dusk , but the 2 months of darkness were the other 2 months , when no Soma rituals were performed.

tilak also connects this phenomenon to the story of the stolen cows (Go's ) which the men of renown were sent out in search of . he says the cows are the allegorical days of no sunrise .....

when the heroes travelled south in search of them ( the cows/daylight) they gradually came out of the circum polar regions , and therefore quite naturally they re-discovered the lost dawns( cows)

and the evil darkness was defeated...... once the polar inhabitants had then migrated to the southern climes the Soma ritual was changed to be performed over the full 12 months of the year as reported in the later writtings.The Soma ritual gives thanks for the suns light / heat .

again he says there is only one place on earth this phenomenon could have been observed by the ancients,and added to their tradition.

could these months of half light when the dawn shines all day for months , but never turns into full daylight , also be connected to the ghoste days mentioned in OLB in some of the dates ????

....and could those who went to the Punjab already have been aware of ancient kinfolk who migrated from the arctic to India . or were they just natives of the Arctic who naturalised over the years into Indians , but wrote up their knowledge of the Arctic meteorology and astrology , which then entered Into Indian tradition.???

Edited March 27, 2015 by Passing Time

[Passing Time]

Was too late to edit the above post to J.O ..... but was also thinking that the words TO FARA , which i think usually means TO TRAVEL or TO JOURNEY , could it be used in the above context as TO SPREAD . (maybe same moving connection )

as in TO FARA THE DROCHTNE could be TO SPREAD THE DOCTRINE ?????

Edited March 27, 2015 by Passing Time

[Ott]

the ghoste days mentioned in OLB in some of the dates

PT, what do you mean with this?

[Ott]

TO FARA THE DROCHTNE could be TO SPREAD THE DOCTRINE ?

It does not say "the".

And no, doesn"t make sense in this context, imo.

The word is related to Oldsaxon drohtin (lord, god)

[Ott]

On page 72, copyist Hidde Oera Linda left four lines empty on top of the page.

The only possible explanation I can think of is that his original had an illustration there that he wanted to copy later, but in the end he never got to do it.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Jan Ott

[Ott]

Some other fragments suggest that Finda's land was situated more in the east ...

Ljudgért was a Gértman from Punjab, who came to Fryasland with Friso's fleet, ca. 300 BCE, and became friends with Fréthorik Oera Linda.

He wrote about the people of north-west India:

[163/29]:

VNDER THA HINDOS ÀND ÔTHERA UT.A LÔNDUM

SIND WELKA LJUDA MANK THÉR AN STILNISE BÍ MALKÔRUM KVMA.

SE GELÁVATH THET SE VNFORBASTERE BERN FINDA.S SIND.

SE GELÁVATH THET FINDA FONUT.ET HIMMEL.LÀJA BERTA BERN IS.

HVANÁ SE MITH HJARA BERN NÉI THA DELTA JEFTHA LÉGTE TOGEN IS. ~

WELKE VNDER THAM GELÁVATH THET SE MITH HJRA BERN

VPPET SKUM THER HÉLIGE GONGG.À DEL GONGGEN IS.

THÉRVMBE SKOLDE THI RUN.STRÁME HÉLIGE GONGG.À HÉTA.

Sandbach p.221

Among the Hindoos and others out of these countries

there are people who meet together secretly [in silence].

They believe that they are pure [unbasτardised] children of Finda,

and that Finda was born in the Himmellaia mountains,

whence she went with her children to the [delta or] lowlands.

Some of them believe that she, with her children,

floated down upon the foam of the [holy] Ganges,

and that that is the reason why the river is called the Sacred Ganges [holy 'Gongg-à'].

In Hinduism, the river Ganges is considered sacred and is personified as a goddess known as Ganga. (wiki)

The Ganges (or Ganga) indeed descends from the Himalayas.

Ljudgért (and the other people of Frya's) who had heard about this river goddess tradition may have interpreted it as being about Finda.

The Hindus themselves may never actually have used that name.

[Van Gorp]

Clear points Jan, very interesting.

I have been thinking a bit on the same subject and can't keep my eyes and thoughts from the sometimes mentionned links between the Kush/Koesj (Kash?) and Mur/Mer from ancient Nubia (connection also Egypt-Sudan-Ethiopia and Horn of Africa) and migration towards Persia/India/....

A clear link is still found in the name Abysinnia (Ethiopia) and Ab-e-sind (India). Not only in connection name, but also in genealogy there are some assumptions to be found i guess.

There are cases in much later texts where F and S (f) could be well mixed up or substituted in vocalisation. I wonder if here in some way or another can be a relation between Find and Sind.

The Abysin/Abesind, Koesj/Mur/Mer-like appearances in both places (Nubia/Persia/India) are though striking imo.

[The Puzzler]

It does not say "the".

And no, doesn"t make sense in this context, imo.

The word is related to Oldsaxon drohtin (lord, god)

I agree.

They gave these statues to simple people, and at last they said that Jessos was a god, that he had declared this himself to them, and that all those who followed his doctrine should enter his kingdom hereafter, where all was joy and happiness.

thaet Jes-us en drochten were,

and doctrine here: and that all those who followed his doctrine

, aend thaet alle thêr an him aend an sina lêra lâwa wilde, nêimels in sin kêningkrik kvme skolde,

is clearly not doctrine in Fryan.

...something about teaching wild lions...

drochten 11, dro-ch-t-en, afries., st. M. (a): nhd. Herr; ne. lord;

Edited March 31, 2015 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

hi Puz.....our copyist in the 13th century , does not have to define the meaning of many words, presumably because they only have one meaning.....if he has to define FO , the mere fact he has to do it , leads you to think this is because there is more than one meaning for the word.........the fact he plumped for explaining it as faux, maybe does not prove that is what the original author intended many years before......possibly ???

Possibly - but I don't see the same as such an example as Rome - called it rum, that is, spacious. (roomy) They really didn't have to tell us rum meant spacious, but did.

Maybe we just don't know the connection from the language, yet.

There's a word - fake - like false - but it has an unknown etymology and is Germanic. feogan/fegan - Latin facere ie; to pretend it's real

Im actually thinking that it's related to this term, or maybe even feign, which would be literally 'false'. This would be so very typical of the whole text imo.

Edited March 31, 2015 by The Puzzler

[Passing Time]

Possibly - but I don't see the same as such an example as Rome - called it rum, that is, spacious. (roomy) They really didn't have to tell us rum meant spacious, but did.

Maybe we just don't know the connection from the language, yet.

There's a word - fake - like false - but it has an unknown etymology and is Germanic. feogan/fegan - Latin facere ie; to pretend it's real

Im actually thinking that it's related to this term, or maybe even feign, which would be literally 'false'. This would be so very typical of the whole text imo.

Fair enough i am OK with it not being doctrine.

interesting this other German word Fegan , according to Layamons Brut the first preacher the pope sent to Britain, his name was Fagan.

you probably already all know this , but on the reverse of Liko's letter in the OLB , they mention the Papa Kappa's trying to get rich by/and the word used is prebendne ,

umbe rika prebendne to winnande sa helath he mith tha poppa keningar

according to wiki at the time of Domesday book (1086) Canons and dignitaries of the church were supported by the produce and profits of their church estates....it says.....by the 12th century this idea of prebends became developed as an institution and gave the receiver an independant income ....the reciever was often the administrator of the churches accounts , and it was independant of the attendant Bishops , these posts therefore were quickly taken up, not by clerics but by the younger

members/families of the nobility , and more minor aristocracy.

Most prebends in England were abolished in 1547 , by the English reformation, partly if not more importantly because nearly all these posts had become filled by the nobility........obviously this was the situation in England .....not sure if this is relative to Frisia ?????

, but at least the time that wiki says this noble practice exploded into an institution is about the time Liko was writing his letter complaining about it .

Edited March 31, 2015 by Passing Time

[Passing Time]

It does not say "the".

And no, doesn"t make sense in this context, imo.

The word is related to Oldsaxon drohtin (lord, god)

from your link ......proto germanic druhtinaz......t often being exchanged for d.....looks like could be an origin

of the word druid

[The Puzzler]

from your link ......proto germanic druhtinaz......t often being exchanged for d.....looks like could be an origin

of the word druid

I must say, druid did enter my mind too.

However, the OLB gives druid this etymology:

In order to make a favourable impression, they had themselves called in our language followers of the truth; but they had better have been called abstainers from the truth, or, in short, “Triuwenden,” as our seafaring people afterwards called them.

True is actually the same etymology root as tree, which official etymology does give as the root for druid - deru/doru ~~~ this word is everywhere, from the rivers in Spain, to Mt Atlas Berber name, the trees, I actually think its the stem for Dorians also, it has a life of its own, it must be a very old word and concept. Its probably the etymology of Troy as well.

true as in faithful, reliable, long-lasting, loyal, true

triūwe (2) 18, triōwe (2), triūw-e, triōw-e (2), afries., Adj.: nhd. treu, zuverlässig, glaubwürdig; ne. faithful, reliable; Vw.: s. un-, -lik; Hw.: vgl. got. triggws, an. tryggr, ae. tréowe, anfrk. *trūwi, as. triuwi*, ahd. *triuwi?; Q.: E, W, S, B; E.: germ. *trewa-, *trewaz, *trewwa-, *trewwaz, Adj., treu; idg. *deru̯o-, *dreu̯o-, Adj., treu, Pokorny 214; s. idg. *deru-, *dōru-, *dreu, *dru-, *drou-, Sb., Baum, Pokorny 214; W.: nfries. trouw, Adj., treu, zuverlässig; W.: saterl. trjuwe, Adj., treu, zuverlässig; L.: Hh 116a, Rh 1094a

Its an interesting case where the OLB has given us the root word (true) whereby officially guessed etymology has the same root (deru) but a different aspect. (tree).

drochten as lord/god in Frisian - may actually come from the same - since Wralda/God is described as most ancient and eternal etc, words really saying he's the true, faithful, long-lasting, reliable one...

Edited April 1, 2015 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

If it is 'fake', that FO actually equates to, it could be reason why they have given us the explanation that it means 'false' (falx) - because 'fake' may not have actually been in the Frisian language - so the writer has given us the closest translation into Frisian that he could...'false'

fake of unknown origin; attested in London criminal slang as adjective (1775 "a counterfeit"), verb (1812 "to rob"), and noun (1851, "a swindle;" of persons 1888, "a swindler"), but probably older. A likely source is feague "to spruce up by artificial means," from German fegen "polish, sweep," also "to clear out, plunder" in colloquial use. ~ Or it may be from Latin facere "to do." http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none

Wikipedia

The origin is not known with certainty, although first attested in 1775 CE in British criminals' slang [1]. It is probably from feak, feague (“to give a better appearance through artificial means”); akin to Dutch veeg (“a slap”), vegen (“to sweep, wipe”); German fegen (“to sweep, to polish”). Compare Old English fācn, fācen (“deceit, fraud”). Perhaps related to Old Norse fjuka (“fade, vanquish, disappear”), feikn (“strange, scary, unnatural”) and Albanian fik (“put out, vanquish, disappear”)

http://en.wiktionary...ki/fake#English

counterfeit: Russian: подделывать (ru) impf (poddélyvat’), подделать (ru) pf (poddélat’)

to make a false/fake display out of: Dutch: voorwenden

Not really sure but might be worth another look.

Edited April 1, 2015 by The Puzzler

[Ott]

proto germanic druhtinaz

"Proto germanic" is nor was a language, although many reason as if it were.

It is a reconstruction.

[Ott]

drochten as lord/god in Frisian

"DROCHTEN" actually seems to be very much related/ associated with deception/ betrayal:

OLB words:

verb

BIDROGA - to cheat, deceive - 8

BITROGHA - to cheat, deceive - 2

(HI) BIDROGHT - (he) cheats, deceives - 1

(HI) THRJVCHDE - (he) deceived, feigned - 4

noun

BITROGNA - (the) cheated, betrayed - 3

BIDROGAR - deceivers - 10a

adjective

BIDROGLIKA WORDA - deceitful words - 9

BIDROGLIKA PRESTERA - deceitful priests - 10b

related:

DROCHT.LIK RÉDA - to reason/speak deceitfully - 5

DROCHTEN BIDRÍF/BIDRÍV - deceit, deception (-committal) - 6,7

OLB fragments:

1 [030/09] Minno

SAHWERSA THÉR KVMTH EN VRLANDISK KAP.MAN [...] ÀND HI BIDROGHT

[O-S p.45]

Wanneer een buitenlandsch koopman komt [...] en hij bedriegt

Whenever a foreign trader comes [...] if he cheats

2 [030/22] Minno

EN ÀRG MAN [...] THAM THA LJUD BITROGHA WIL

[O-S p.45]

een slecht man [...] die de menschen bedriegen wil

a bad man [...] and should try to cheat

3 [041/33] Setma and Domar

AN THA WRÉKE THÉR BITROGNA VRLÉTEN.

[O-S p.61]

aan de wraak der bedrogene overgelaten

to the vengeance of those whom he has offended [the cheated, betrayed]

4 [121/01] Ljudgért: Alexandre

THACH HI THRJVCHDE LIK HI ÉR DÉN HÉDE

[O-S p.165]

doch hij bedroog gelijk hij vroeger gedaan had

but he deceived [feigned], as he had done before.

Note: Jensma translated: "maar hij dreigde..." (but he threatened) - this could in fact be a better interpretation

5 [140/13] Hellénja

THAS LÉRE HWÉRBI THA PRESTERA NÉN ORE WITSKIP HOVA

AS DROCHT.LIK RÉDA

[O-S p.191]

Deze leer, waarbij de priesters geen andere wetenschap noodig hebben,

als bedriegelijk te redeneren

This doctrine, which requires the priests to possess no further knowledge

than to speak [reason] deceitfully

6 [142/17] Gosa

ALOM ÀND ALLERWÉIKES SKIL LEST ÀND DROCHTEN BIDRÍF

WITH FRYHÉD KÀMPA ÀND RJUCHT

[O-S p.193]

Alom en allerwege zullen list en bedrog ('afgodsbedrijf'?)

met vrijheid en recht kampen.

Everywhere craft and deception shall

contend with freedom and justice.

7 [142/30] Gosa

ALLE DROCHTEN BIDRÍV NE SKIL THÉR ÀJEN NAWET NAVT NE FORMÜGA

[O-S p.193]

alle bedrog zal niets meer daar tegen vermogen

all deceit will cease to have any more power

8 [158/21] Gosa

JEF BOSHÉD. DÜGED BIDROGA MÉI.

[O-S p.215]

als de boosheid de deugd bedriegen kan

when wickedness could overcome [deceive] virtue

9 [158/28] Gosa

THAT MÀN THÉRMITH NÉN LÉJEN SEGE.

NER BIDROGLIKA WORDA SPRÉKA NE MÉI

[O-S p.215]

dat men daarmede geen leugen zeggen,

noch bedriegelijke woorden spreken kan

that men can neither lie [with that]

nor use [speak] deceitful words

10 [159/08] Gosa

ALSA RING THÉR MONG VSA HALF SUSTERUM ÀND HALF BROTHARUM BIDROGAR VPKÉMON [...] THA BIDROGLIKA PRESTERA

[O-S p.215]

Zoodra er onder onze halfzusteren en halfbroederen bedriegers opkwamen, [...] De bedriegelijke priesters

As soon as among our half brothers and sisters deceivers arose, [...] The deceitful priests

bedrage - frisian

bedriegen - dutch

betray - english

betrügen - german

bedrag - norse, danish

bedrägeri - swedish

bedrog (bedriegerij) - dutch

(be)drieg(h)en - olddutch

(bi)driogan - oldsaxon

(bi)triogan - oldgerman

bidriaga - oldfrisian

drúhyati (he damages) - sanskrit

dróha (treachery, scorn) - sanskrit

druzaiti (he lies, cheats) avestan

draoga (a lie) - avestan

Edited April 1, 2015 by Jan Ott

[The Puzzler]

Seems relative to the priests preaching Gods word - but them being deceitful about it - which is part of the big picture in the OLB.

7 [142/30] Gosa

ALLE DROCHTEN BIDRÍV NE SKIL THÉR ÀJEN NAWET NAVT NE FORMÜGA

[O-S p.193]

alle bedrog zal niets meer daar tegen vermogen

all deceit will cease to have any more power

ALL THE LORDS COMMANDS SHALL...

bidriv = bedrog?

bidriv is in the Frisian dictionary - but by translating with bedrog (deceive) are you getting the right context?

bidriāga* 6, bi-driāg-a*, afries., st. V. (2): nhd. betrügen, trügen; ne. deceive

bidrīva* 1, bi-drī-v-a*, afries., st. V. (1): nhd. ausrichten, erreichen, zum Gehorsam bringen; ne. straighten, succeed, make (V.) obey ae. bedrīfan (obeyances/commands - invented by the priests)

bidriaga is certainly used many times but in that particular example, I don't think bidriv equates to bidriaga/bedrog - unless I'm missing something in translation.

[Ott]

I don't think bidriv equates to bidriaga/bedrog

No, BIDRIV on itself is like Dutch noun "bedrijf" from verb "bedrijven" - to do, make, commit, perpetrate.

In combination with DROCHTEN, it is litterally something like the committing of idolatry.

Ottema and Sandbach interpreted this as "bedrog" and "deception" respectively.

[The Puzzler]

No, BIDRIV on itself is like Dutch noun "bedrijf" from verb "bedrijven" - to do, make, commit, perpetrate.

In combination with DROCHTEN, it is litterally something like the committing of idolatry.

Ottema and Sandbach interpreted this as "bedrog" and "deception" respectively.

Edited April 1, 2015 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

ALOM ÀND ALLERWÉIKES SKIL LEST ÀND DROCHTEN BIDRÍF

WITH FRYHÉD KÀMPA ÀND RJUCHT

[O-S p.193]

Alom en allerwege zullen list en bedrog ('afgodsbedrijf'?)

met vrijheid en recht kampen.

Everywhere craft and deception shall

contend with freedom and justice

I wish they'd stay more literal to the text.

LEST ? lâshêd 5, lâ-s-hê-d, afries., st. F. (i): nhd. Bosheit, Falschheit, Hinterlist; ne. deceit; Q

What word is CRAFT? They have used lest as craft and drochten as deception.

skela 160 und häufiger, skila, skel-a, skil-a, afries., Prät.-Präs.: nhd. sollen; ne. should, shall

everywhere shall deceit and 'drochten bidrif' with...

everywhere shall deceit and ...? the Lord drive (from biDRIF) (alongside)/contend with freedom (free'd) struggle/fighter and/of right).

.

Old Frisian riucht "right,"

What word do you make 'contend'? It has to be BIDRIF - so it doesn't seem to form part of the 'afgodsbedrijf'?)

Old English drifan "to drive, "to drive, force, hunt, pursue; rush against"

Edited April 1, 2015 by The Puzzler

[Ott]

WITH FRYHÉD KÀMPA ÀND RJUCHT

[O-S p.193]

contend with freedom and justice

What word do you make 'contend'?

Sandbach translated KÀMPA (German kämpfen - to fight) as contend