Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

[The Puzzler]

Sandbach translated KÀMPA (German kämpfen - to fight) as contend

Does that word order even make sense?

Alom en allerwege zullen list en bedrog ('afgodsbedrijf'?)

met vrijheid en recht kampen.

Everywhere craft and deception shall

contend with freedom and justice

The message is the same but you don't have to change any word order for it to make sense in my example - exactly as the Fryans wrote and said it.

All and everywhere shall(skil) deceit(lest) and the Lord(drochten) be-drive(bedrif) with freedom, struggle(kampa) and right

ALOM ÀND ALLERWÉIKES SKIL LEST ÀND DROCHTEN BIDRÍF

WITH FRYHÉD KÀMPA ÀND RJUCHT

but I won't get any more pedantic over it tonight.

Edited April 1, 2015 by The Puzzler

[Ott]

ALOM AND ALLERWÉIKES

All and everywhere

SKIL LEST AND DROCHTEN BIDRÍF

shall(skil) deceit(lest) and the Lord(drochten) be-drive(bedrif)

WITH FRYHÉD KÀMPA AND RJUCHT

with freedom, struggle(kampa) and right

What would you make of this in proper English?

[Ott]

Just some notes.

The common word for child (both singular and plural) in OLB is BÀRN or BERN. (See blog post.)

This word is still used in N-European languages:

barn (child, children) - norse, swedish, danish (plur. børn), icelandic (plur. börn)

bern (child, children) - frisian

But in one fragment the word KINDAR (children - German Kinder, Dutch kinderen) is used twice.

[126/29] Ljudgért

N.AST MIN KINDAR NAVT SJAN [...] THA.K SINA KINDAR WÉI.BROCH HÀV

Have you not seen my children? [...] because I have lost his children

In one fragment KINDLIK (kindly) is used:

[120/31] Ljudgért

AFTERNÉI KÉMER TO HIM. SÉR KINDLIK SNAKKANDE*

Later he came to him, speaking* very kindly

(* Note: snakke still means to talk in Norse. The word got lost in this meaning in Dutch and Frisian.)

[Ott]

Lord(drochten) be-drive(bedrif)

In the OLB, "DROCHTEN" mostly means idol, false god (as is clear from context).

In very few ocasions it refers to Wralda, but in the discussed sentence it's pretty obvious that (practice of) idols/ false gods is meant.

How do you interpret "be-drive"?

[The Puzzler]

What would you make of this in proper English?

(All and) everywhere shall deceit and idolatry operate with (freedom struggle) liberty and right/justice.

[The Puzzler]

In the OLB, "DROCHTEN" mostly means idol, false god (as is clear from context).

In very few ocasions it refers to Wralda, but in the discussed sentence it's pretty obvious that (practice of) idols/ false gods is meant.

How do you interpret "be-drive"?

I took into consideration very much what you said and contemplated them being God perpetrators - however I do think my translation is as valid using bedrive in the German context I have in the word order I used. drochten I think can be used as a term for idolatry.

From Middle English bidriven, from Old English bedrīfan (“to drive; beat; strike; assail; follow up; pursue; surround; cover”), equivalent to be- +‎ drive. Cognate with Dutch bedrijven (“to commit, perpetrate”), German betreiben (“to operate, conduct, pursue”), Swedish bedriva (“to manage, carry on, prosecute”).

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bedrive

'operate' could even equate to 'carry on' which might sound better.

[The Puzzler]

Just some notes.

The common word for child (both singular and plural) in OLB is BÀRN or BERN. (See blog post.)

This word is still used in N-European languages:

barn (child, children) - norse, swedish, danish (plur. børn), icelandic (plur. börn)

bern (child, children) - frisian

But in one fragment the word KINDAR (children - German Kinder, Dutch kinderen) is used twice.

[126/29] Ljudgért

N.AST MIN KINDAR NAVT SJAN [...] THA.K SINA KINDAR WÉI.BROCH HÀV

Have you not seen my children? [...] because I have lost his children

In one fragment KINDLIK (kindly) is used:

[120/31] Ljudgért

AFTERNÉI KÉMER TO HIM. SÉR KINDLIK SNAKKANDE*

Later he came to him, speaking* very kindly

(* Note: snakke still means to talk in Norse. The word got lost in this meaning in Dutch and Frisian.)

These words have always fascinated me. I once thought that child was a literal translation of kinder but it's not.

kinder means 'cheek' and 'chin' as does kind - both meaning touching of the cheek=kindness, tenderness, soft touch of baby or child became 'child'.

English child comes from:

child (n.) Old English cild "fetus, infant, unborn or newly born person," from Proto-Germanic *kiltham (cognates: Gothic kilþei "womb," inkilþo "pregnant;" Danish kuld "children of the same marriage;" Old Swedish kulder "litter;" Old English cildhama "womb," lit. "child-home"); no certain cognates outside Germanic.

Ljudgert' might just be using a more common term for child, which is kindar,(than bern variants) in his place and time.

Edited April 2, 2015 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

In another fragment, it is suggested that the Finns, who arrived in what is now Finland together with the Magyars, were also of Finda's people:

[045/24] from introduction to the alphabet page

VNDER HIRA TID HETH FINDA AK EN SKRIFT UTFVNDEN.

MEN THAT WÉRE SA HÁGFÁRANDE ÀND FVL MITH FRISLA ÀND KROLUM

THAT THA ÀFTERKVMANDA THÉROF THJU BITJVDNESE RING VRLÉREN HÀVE.

ÀFTERNÉI HÀVON HJA VS SKRIFT LÉRED

BINOMA THA FINNA. THA THYRJAR ÀND THA KRÉKA.LANDAR.

Sandbach p.65

In her time Finda also invented a mode of writing,

but that was so high-flown and full of flourishes

that her descendants have soon lost the meaning of it.

Afterwards they learned our writing—

that is, the Finns, the Thyriers, and the Krekalanders

One could believe that the ancient Finns were somewhat 'Asian', but to suppose the Tyrians (now Libanon) and Greeks were as well, makes no sense. They were more probably east-Mediterranean. Not black, not white, but somewhere in between; what Frya's people might have called GÉL ('yellow' or light brown).

Yes. Not very white like Frya, nor black like Lyda, but middle - the yellower, browner, brown hair people. Coffee coloured. "Making coffee-coloured people by the score" as the song goes.

Kashmir at the time spoken about, would have had a lot of population that wasn't all that Asiatic stereotypical looking imo - looking at a map, it's smack bang in the middle of Findasland - which I interpret as basically all the land east of Europe.

Occasionally in Middle English used of a color closer to blue-gray or gray, of frogs or hazel eyes, and to translate Latin caeruleus, glauco. Also as a noun in Old English. Meaning "light-skinned" (of blacks) first recorded 1808. Applied to Asiatics since 1787, though the first recorded reference is to Turkish words for inhabitants of India.

http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none

White is like this, white started from the term of 'not being dark'.

Its the incomers, who blended into Europeans, imo, who bought in cattle, had copper axes and wooden weapons, shamans, Gods and all the rest - its people who lived from eastern Russia, through southern Mongolia, to the whole area of the Hindu Kush - but not necessarily just Chinese type Asian - so I agree. Persians were 'Asiatics' in their day - everyone from the continent of Asia Minor and Asia.

Those that descend from Greeks have brown eyes. Olive skin could be construed as gel, it has a yellow tinge and its not white or black - but I do think it also means those who are pale skinned to an extent, such as Scythians, but they are termed gel, since they also are of an 'Asiatic yellow skin' type - simply not as fair as Fryans. Scythians obviously had an important priestly class and some of the most bloody and grotesque sacrifices of all - I can't see then NOT being included in a group who was Finda's folk.

I think there's also a connection of those who came to Babylon from the East, from the Bible. Some group of people have come from the east in these stories and have had a profound impact on everything but its hard to place the finger on the exact circumstances.

Its possible the OLB is telling us that all these people radiated out of the areas of Kashmir and Hindu Kush - which is not all that wrong from what genetics is now telling us - many common European lineages came into Europe, fairly recently, from the East.

Edited April 3, 2015 by The Puzzler

[Passing Time]

And then not a million miles from GEL , to Gael , Gaelic (Gael-lik ) Gaul , Gelt (Kelt ) or Geltic ? Kelt-lik , Keltic, Celtic.

Ljudgert had just come back from Pun-jab , is it not likely that there had grown some differences

in common word use , from Bern used in Frisia , to Kinder (still Kin-folk related ) used by same

race abroad , gert-manna we think may be related to German , so german kinder should maybe

not be surprising .

what does Muge mean folks ??

Edited April 4, 2015 by Passing Time

[Passing Time]

Also Honk is another word that escapes me.... honk and hong are used in Layamons Brut as hang , but that does not seem to be the OLB useage

.

Toghater seems to have two meanings.....Daughter , and together ,have i got this right ?

and Gvng-on seems a weird way to say gone.....could this have two meanings also ? it seems to me . if it also meant Governor , or Governing , using V as a v rather than a u ( non aspirated),in some places it is used the context could still be fitting ????.

eg:- Thiv Hrop ther vr gvng wr alle Krekalanda and kem in tha ara fon Demetrius.

they of Hrop ?they were governing over all krekalanda , and came to that area from Demetrius.??

what is Hrop , and Hropa ....is this an early form of Europe ??

Edited April 4, 2015 by Passing Time

[The Puzzler]

And then not a million miles from GEL , to Gael , Gaelic (Gael-lik ) Gaul , Gelt (Kelt ) or Geltic ? Kelt-lik , Keltic, Celtic.

Ljudgert had just come back from Pun-jab , is it not likely that there had grown some differences

in common word use , from Bern used in Frisia , to Kinder (still Kin-folk related ) used by same

race abroad , gert-manna we think may be related to German , so german kinder should maybe

not be surprising .

what does Muge mean folks ??

Muge may be closest to muggy.

Drizzle, slimy, slippery, mucus...

If that context works.

Gel to Celt, I actually started a thread about just that, that they are possibly named from their hair colour, always noted by ancient writers as yellow, gel, the yellow heads, Sumerian has black heads, this doesn't seem all that unusual or uncommon for this naming to have come about in this way.

[Passing Time]

Back to the GEL Yellow.....Poss Gelt (Kelt ) connection......it has taken some time to find it again , but i was only reading this

link yesterday.....

http://www.historyfiles.co.uk/FeaturesEurope/BarbarianCelts02.htm

Celts were also known as Gaul, Caltoi , Keltoi , Galat, Galad, Wahl and Wal........a poss root word for Celt and Galad

comes from Ghladh , Ghel which means bright, brilliant, shining ......there are also l-, u-, or n-, stems such as ghela , ghle

ghlo , ghla , all mean to shine , glare , glow , or golden, yellow or other bright colours (white ?)so Kelts could be the

shining ones (like those in Sumer , Mesop )

another possibility is that Keltoi and Galat came to a place where there was no K or G , so they were called Welte or Velte ,

Valde or Walde ( interesting nearly wralda) which means great , exceedingly , intensely , strong , powerful

Walens or Valens means Strong , Powerful , healthy , able , worthwhile ,

Waleo or Valeo means To be strong , or to have power .

Walidus or Validus means strong , mighty , powerful........and therefore the Welsh , Wahla and Walish , Valha(Valhala ?) and Val

could previously been Gahla or Galish etc.

theory goes that Celt and Galad led on/from to names like Caledon-iam ,Celidon, Kaleti , Galeti , and Galatians , Galicians etc

aparently it was the Germans who used Walha for the Welsh and it has been thought it meant foreigner , but could be just

because they did not use K/G , it is not thought to mean foreigner as the Germans did not call the Fins or Magi Wahla or wal

even though they were foreigners.

[Passing Time]

In the OLB, "DROCHTEN" mostly means idol, false god (as is clear from context).

In very few ocasions it refers to Wralda, but in the discussed sentence it's pretty obvious that (practice of) idols/ false gods is meant.

How do you interpret "be-drive"?

just a guess...........BEDRIV........BE IT RIFE ???? rife as in common , widespread , universal ,

should deceit and idolatry be it( become ) rife ???

[Passing Time]

Muge may be closest to muggy.

Drizzle, slimy, slippery, mucus...

If that context works.

Gel to Celt, I actually started a thread about just that, that they are possibly named from their hair colour, always noted by ancient writers as yellow, gel, the yellow heads, Sumerian has black heads, this doesn't seem all that unusual or uncommon for this naming to have come about in this way.

thanks re Muge puz......any idea on the others that confuse me ??

Honk, Toghater , Gvng-on , Hrop ????

werent the egyptians called blackheads also ?

[The Puzzler]

just a guess...........BEDRIV........BE IT RIFE ???? rife as in common , widespread , universal ,

should deceit and idolatry be it( become ) rife ???

Sounds quite good - but I can't make it that because of the D in the word - BE-DRIV or BED-RIV. Jan might know if it works better.

Personally if its in the Frisian dictionary I think its generally the word that shows:

bidrīva* 1, bi-drī-v-a*, afries., st. V. (1): nhd. ausrichten, erreichen, zum Gehorsam bringen; ne. straighten, succeed, make (V.) obey; Hw.: vgl. ae. bedrīfan; E.: s. bi-, drī-v-a; L.: Hh 137a, Hh 184, Rh 633a

basically deceit and idoloarty will "succeed/drive along side" justice and right is how I read the sentence,

[The Puzzler]

Also Honk is another word that escapes me.... honk and hong are used in Layamons Brut as hang , but that does not seem to be the OLB useage

.

Toghater seems to have two meanings.....Daughter , and together ,have i got this right ?

and Gvng-on seems a weird way to say gone.....could this have two meanings also ? it seems to me . if it also meant Governor , or Governing , using V as a v rather than a u ( non aspirated),in some places it is used the context could still be fitting ????.

eg:- Thiv Hrop ther vr gvng wr alle Krekalanda and kem in tha ara fon Demetrius.

they of Hrop ?they were governing over all krekalanda , and came to that area from Demetrius.??

what is Hrop , and Hropa ....is this an early form of Europe ??

hrop may be related to cry, call, shout out, - clamour, lament, complain, cry, summons (k )hrop

daughter seems to be an ultra ancient word and concept - relative to 'being a (future) suckler' - giver of milk

I do not think together is connected - even though I once considered it.

Can you link the text pieces for gvng-on and honk, makes it a bit easier, ta.

Edited April 5, 2015 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

thâ hrop Frya fon hira wâkstaere

Frya called from her watch-star,

hja skilun wê hropa overa dêda thêra prestera

they shall cry woe to the acts of the princes and the priests.

All hrop words should align to this meaning throughout the OLB.

...maybe it is the root for Europe - the mythology has Europa's brother Cadmus going all over the place looking for her - calling, summoning her.

Edited April 5, 2015 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

Tha Dêmêtrius fornom, thaet Friso to honk wêre, sand-i en bodja to him segsande, thaet hi sina bern to him nomen hêde wmbe ra to fora to-n hâge stât vmbe to lânja him to fâra sina thjanesta.

When Demetrius heard that Friso had come home, he sent messengers to him to say that he had taken his children to raise them to high rank, and to reward him for his services.

Dutch

Etymology

From Middle Dutch honc, likely through Old Dutch from Proto-Germanic *hank-, *hunk-. Only has cognates in the Frisian languages. Possibly related to haak (“hook”) and hoek (“corner”).

honk n (plural honken, diminutive honkje n)

1. (somewhat rare) home, place where one belongs, shelter
   

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/honk

I could see it relative to a concept like "wherever I hang my hat, that's my home" or your 'hang-out'.

[The Puzzler]

Thjv hrop thêrvr gvng vvr alle Krêkalanda aend kêm in tha âra fon Dêmêtrius. Dêmêtrius wêre vvl aend vnsêdlik, aend hi thogte thaet-im ella fry stvnde. Hi lêt thju toghater avbêr skâkja.

The fame/call ie; fame is based on the concept of 'known' a person of renown, a name that is known 'called out'

gung uur - gung ur

like going

gunga 124, ganga, gu-ng-a, ga-ng-a, afries., st. V. (7)=red. V.: nhd. gehen, ergehen, übergehen (V.) (1), gelten, stattfinden, verlustig gehen; ne. go (V.), happen, be valid, lose

Their fame/call was spreading/going all over Krekaland...

Edited April 5, 2015 by The Puzzler

[Passing Time]

Thjv hrop thêrvr gvng vvr alle Krêkalanda aend kêm in tha âra fon Dêmêtrius. Dêmêtrius wêre vvl aend vnsêdlik, aend hi thogte thaet-im ella fry stvnde. Hi lêt thju toghater avbêr skâkja.

The fame/call ie; fame is based on the concept of 'known' a person of renown, a name that is known 'called out'

gung uur - gung ur

like going

gunga 124, ganga, gu-ng-a, ga-ng-a, afries., st. V. (7)=red. V.: nhd. gehen, ergehen, übergehen (V.) (1), gelten, stattfinden, verlustig gehen; ne. go (V.), happen, be valid, lose

Their fame/call was spreading/going all over Krekaland...

Thanks Puz ..thats really helpful......could you re-post the frisian dictionary again ....its one of the things i lost

when my computer got burgled .

i was thinking for a while Frya , cool heat from sun in Hrop (Europe) y = g/j so Frya = frigid area(White) warm stof

Finda medium heat from sun in India (Asia ) Gel yellow people .ut heta

Lyda of Glyand heat from sun in Lybia (Africa)

you had a chance to read Tilaks 'the Arctic home in the Vedas yet ? ....just his conclusions

in last chapter might be worth a read if you are short of time ..

Edited April 5, 2015 by Passing Time

[The Puzzler]

Thanks Puz ..thats really helpful......could you re-post the frisian dictionary again ....its one of the things i lost

when my computer got burgled .

i was thinking for a while Frya , cool heat from sun in Hrop (Europe) y = g/j so Frya = frigid area(White) warm stof

Finda medium heat from sun in India (Asia ) Gel yellow people .ut heta

Lyda of Glyand heat from sun in Lybia (Africa)

http://www.koeblergerhard.de/afrieswbhinw.html

[Passing Time]

Tunis and Inka weron sekampar and just nw bi hiara faderja anda alderga mude t-us , as tha yonga kamper nw bi ekkorum kemon , keron hja Woden to hiara herman..........Sandback translates:-

Tunis and Inka were naval warriors ,who just now were there with their father at aldergamude , as the young warriors were coming to assemble , where they chose Woden as their herman(leader )

just thinking on that word ekkorum...together with p.celtic and q.celtic language.........sandbach says they were coming to assemble....so coming to a formal meeting , bearing korum in mind p.celtic could then make this forum (p and f interchange)which was a formal meeting , and q.celtic ...a quorum , which is the required number of attendees at a meeting before any decisions taken can be binding.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Passing Time

[The Puzzler]

you had a chance to read Tilaks 'the Arctic home in the Vedas yet ? ....just his conclusions

in last chapter might be worth a read if you are short of time ..

Sounds plausible enough.

[The Puzzler]

Tunis and Inka weron sekampar and just nw bi hiara faderja anda alderga mude t-us , as tha yonga kamper nw bi ekkorum kemon , keron hja Woden to hiara herman..........Sandback translates:-

Tunis and Inka were naval warriors ,who just now were there with their father at aldergamude , as the young warriors were coming to assemble , where they chose Woden as their herman(leader )

just thinking on that word ekkorum...together with p.celtic and q.celtic language.........sandbach says they were coming to assemble....so coming to a formal meeting , bearing korum in mind p.celtic could then make this forum (p and f interchange)which was a formal meeting , and q.celtic ...a quorum , which is the required number of attendees at a meeting before any decisions taken can be binding.

Interesting co-incidence.

Im thinking of agora but not sure how it fits into the language. Maybe 'court'.

Fiftian monatha nêi thêre lerste acht

Fifteen months after the last general assembly

acht is like ek

achte 9, ach-t-e, ach-t, afries., F.: nhd. Gericht (N.) (1), Gerichtshof, Urteilsvorschlag; ne. court (N.),

kor***, afries., Sb.: nhd. Entscheidung; ne. decision;

ie; where they chose Woden

(Done editing)

Edited April 5, 2015 by The Puzzler

[Passing Time]

Interesting co-incidence.

Im thinking of agora but not sure how it fits into the language. ekko-rum is sticking in my head - lol, like a space where echoes are - like a noisy, crowded space, an assembly.

Ha-Ha not Echo beach , that song which i cant get out of my head since you mentioned echoes.

another eg. for gvngen(governing )possibly........022.01.page 22. sub para 11.

is er uppa sin tid of gvngen ief tha binna sin tid sturven sa ne mei nen sibba him up folgia ther im nei ar sy sa farde kny

is are up his time of governing , if been in his time sturven.say not may none of his siblings follow him to the fourth kin.