Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

[The Puzzler]

Ny - adjective - new

hel - noun - light, clarity

lénja - verb - provide, lend

Which part is council?

Council is an interpretation. It is not literally in the name.

HÉL in OLB is whole, very (Dutch: heel). With É, not E.

It isn't. Read my initial post about it and follow the link.

Certainly, not in her name, just interpretation of what the new and whole thing was she lent.

With the heel/hel bit I think that HEL can be the same, see below, where in particular two western Frisian languages just use HEL without the 'ee' sound or the line above the E.

hêl 27, hil, hê-l, hi-l, afries., Adj.: nhd. heil, unverletzt, unversehrt, ganz; ne. whole (Adj.); Hw.: vgl. got. hails (1), an. heill (2), ae. hāl, as. hêl (2), ahd. heil (1); Q.: H, E, W, S, B, R; E.: germ. *haila-, *hailaz, Adj., heil, gesund; idg. *kailo-, *kailu-, Adj., heil, unversehrt, Pokorny 520; s. idg. *kai- (1), *kaiu̯o-, *kaiu̯elo-, Adj., Adv., allein, Pokorny 519; W.: nfries. hel, Adj., heil, unverletzt; W.: saterl. hel, Adj.,

Ok, no wonder I couldn't find HEL.JAND.

[Passing Time]

Ny - adjective - new

hel - noun - light, clarity

lénja - verb - provide, lend

Which part is council?

Council is an interpretation. It is not literally in the name.

HÉL in OLB is whole, very (Dutch: heel). With É, not E.

It isn't. Read my initial post about it and follow the link.

hele.....from middle English ..Helen , Helien , old English Helan , helian....means Hide , cover , conceal.........an old masonic oath ends "you must hele, conceal and never reveal " so to

rhyme with reveal and conceal , it is thought to be pronounced heel.

Suterland Frisian...Hela (Conceal)......see http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hele

any good ??

Edited April 18, 2015 by Passing Time

[Passing Time]

Haran is a common name and word. (har meaning hill or mountain)

Harran the place was on the trade route to the Mediterranean, a merchant outpost even around 19th century BC, imo Haran as Abrahams brother is no connection to the place except a probable same etymology.

He dies in Ur before Abraham, Sarah, Terah and Haran's son Lot leave, hence why Lot goes with Abraham. I don't think Lot's mother is mentioned anywhere but even though I think it's fair to say, brothers married widowed wives, there is nothing to imply that Sarah is Lot's mother as the Bible includes references to her long period of childlessness.

~~~~~

HEL.LICHT holy light

Well they were obviously a rich well to do family , and Nahor named his village/town after himself " Nahor later continued

his travels , settling in Aram Naharaim where he founded the town of Nahor " ......would Terah not want to name a town

after his dead son ,....the idea of the brother marrying his dead brothers wife is to keep all the possesions/land in the

same family ,rather than have her re-marry , and the new husband inherit.........,... to have a son by her , who is then the

dead brothers heir. .....Also considering Abrahams position is it not possible that it was him that was firing blanks , but it got blamed on Sarah , for PC reasons.( i know about Ishmael and Isaac

eventually......but at their age.....its a bit doubtful ,maybe Sarah and Hagar got fed up waiting for Abraham , and Hagar and Ishmail got kicked out because they knew the baby could not be his ?)

anyway it was the Magian/Amorite/Jebusite/wizards possible connection to the family , and then the

later non jewish interest in Christ/Sraosha's birth , but the great interest of 3 Magi Kings which

was my main point.....and whether their burial in Cologne could be linked to OLB Magians ??

Edited April 18, 2015 by Passing Time

[Ott]

sex and fifti goste jer......what is the goste bit ????

goste is to do with gast or ghost/spirit

Sigh...

After this I give up again.

It's useless.

English is really the most degenerate of the N-European languages.

Humility to those who have that as their first and only language.

fifty:

vijftig - dutch

fünfzig - german

fimmtug - icelandic

fiftiest:

vijftigste - dutch

fünfzigste - german

fimmtugasta - icelandic

[Passing Time]

Sigh...

After this I give up again.

It's useless.

English is really the most degenerate of the N-European languages.

Humility to those who have that as their first and only language.

fifty:

vijftig - dutch

fünfzig - german

fimmtug - icelandic

fiftiest:

vijftigste - dutch

fünfzigste - german

fimmtugasta - icelandic

Ok so we are not perfick....can understand why you need fifty , and the equivalents , but there is no such English word

as fiftiest , are you saying it is the equivalent of fiftieth , sixtieth.

[The Puzzler]

Sigh...

After this I give up again.

It's useless.

English is really the most degenerate of the N-European languages.

Humility to those who have that as their first and only language.

fifty:

vijftig - dutch

fünfzig - german

fimmtug - icelandic

fiftiest:

vijftigste - dutch

fünfzigste - german

fimmtugasta - icelandic

You must have gave up too early reading the posts because that was only a first guess, didn't you see my next post about it? You haven't given any explanation, just what it says but what does it evolve from, what meaning, my post gave it. What I think it is anyway. Its all about 'cost' - it's added on as a meaning for cost which ended up equating to goste, oste, est, etc. = amount of years - year amount - year cost

Puzzler:The goste, looking at the etymology says Old Frisian fiftiCHSTA = GHSTA = GOSTE

which means this goste might actually be found within ksta/ksta words.

cost, amount - I think this could be a very old way to denote an amount (of years, of time) a fifty amount of years

Edited April 19, 2015 by The Puzzler

[Ott]

The goste, looking at the etymology says Old Frisian fiftiCHSTA = GHSTA = GOSTE

which means this goste might actually be found within ksta/ksta words.

cost, amount - I think this could be a very old way to denote an amount (of years, of time) a fifty amount of years

Nonsense.

eerste (first)

tweede

derde

vierde

vijfde

zesde

zevende

achtste

negende

tiende

elfde

twaalfde

dertiende

etc.

where is the "cost" now?

[Passing Time]

Nonsense.

eerste (first)

tweede

derde

vierde

vijfde

zesde

zevende

achtste

negende

tiende

elfde

twaalfde

dertiende

etc.

where is the "cost" now?

Hey...what is the problem Jan , i am on here to discuss with others who have been interested in OLB much longer than

i have , to learn a few things from you others , and maybe add a few ideas of my own from the book reading i do.....

which because i am a sad ba****d is quite extensive.

i have said before that i know i will be wrong on most of the things i say, or ask questions about , i have been grateful

to Puz on many occasions for answers to my questions . and even if she is as in the dark as me sometimes , at least

i get some reply from her, as everyone else seems to have lost momentum on the thread

you are right the book is not in our language , and those of us that speak English , are notorious for not speaking

other languages, but at least we are endevouring to learn, a bit more patience and understanding would be helpful

Edited April 19, 2015 by Passing Time

[Ott]

what is the problem Jan ... i have been grateful to Puz

My irritation only concerns her.

Specially her utter cluelessness about HEL recently (and that after having been on this topic for some years now) and I wasting time with that again.

I'd rather have more quality rather than quantity here.

But I should just take the long break that I need.

Just moved to Norway for a while.

Guess I was a bit stressed too.

I try to take some time off now.

So apologies if I offended anyone.

I know you mean well.

See you later.

[The Puzzler]

Ok so we are not perfick....can understand why you need fifty , and the equivalents , but there is no such English word

as fiftiest , are you saying it is the equivalent of fiftieth , sixtieth.

Apparently. That was your fault lol, asking what goste was and throwing my attention from fifty being fiftig plus oste to make fiftiest, to fifti plus goste - Saxon eth must have been more predominant into English than est for the suffix.

Sorry for being a degenerate English speaker there...

Still, strange how the suffix is not actually eth.

Edited April 19, 2015 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

My irritation only concerns her.

Specially her utter cluelessness about HEL recently (and that after having been on this topic for some years now) and I wasting time with that again.

I'd rather have more quality rather than quantity here.

But I should just take the long break that I need.

Just moved to Norway for a while.

Guess I was a bit stressed too.

I try to take some time off now.

So apologies if I offended anyone.

I know you mean well.

See you later.

Go have your break if it's so exasperating for you to deal with.

Edited April 19, 2015 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

The HEL in the OLB imo is the bottom etymology, which is why it's not actually 'clear or light or bright'. It can be HEL or HEEL or HAIL and WHOLE sound and comes from assumed PIE root kailo, not KELE

The OLB has words for clear and light separately - if her name contained either these meanings it would use that word.

I doubt Nyhellenia's name contains a French introduced meaning.

clear (adj.)

late 13c., "bright," from Old French cler "clear" (of sight and hearing), "light, bright, shining; sparse" (12c., Modern French clair), from Latin clarus "clear, loud," of sounds; figuratively "manifest, plain, evident," in transferred use, of sights, "bright, distinct;" also "illustrious, famous, glorious" (source of Italian chiaro, Spanish claro), from PIE *kle-ro-, from root *kele- (2) "to shout" (see claim (v.)).

The sense evolution involves an identification of the spreading of sound and the spreading of light (compare English loud, used of colors; German hell "clear, bright, shining," of pitch, "distinct, ringing, high"). Of complexion, from c. 1300; of the weather, from late 14c.; of meanings or explanations, "manifest to the mind, comprehensible," c. 1300. (An Old English word for this was sweotol "distinct, clear, evident."

whole (adj.)

Old English hal "entire, whole; unhurt, uninjured, safe; healthy, sound; genuine, straightforward," from Proto-Germanic *haila- "undamaged" (cognates: Old Saxon hel, Old Norse heill, Old Frisian hal, Middle Dutch hiel, Dutch heel, Old High German, German heil "salvation, welfare"), from PIE *kailo- "whole, uninjured, of good omen" (cognates: Old Church Slavonic celu "whole, complete;" see health).

Edited April 19, 2015 by The Puzzler

[Ott]

The OLB has words for clear and light separately - if her name contained either these meanings it would use that word.

Why? Never heard of synonyms?

OLB has plenty of them.

[The Puzzler]

Why? Never heard of synonyms?

OLB has plenty of them.

There is no reason for it to mean anything other than 'whole' for the reasons I stated above, it's Frisian, it's a clear Germanic line rather than Latin and French and 'hell' in German really refers to pitch (of sound) whereas hel/hal in Frisian means whole and refers to all things good, safe, healthy, sound, genuine - and that's the advice she lent, new and whole. Nothing will change my mind on that one so feel free to put whatever you think is appropriate but that's what I'd have.

[Ott]

Nothing will change my mind on that one ...

A closed mind is not very helpful in this quest.

[The Puzzler]

A closed mind is not very helpful in this quest.

Its not closed, it's decided. Quite different.

It also transfers to the name Nehallenia which German 'hell' will not do.

Edited April 28, 2015 by The Puzzler

[Ott]

'hell' in German really refers to pitch (of sound)

You have no clue.

From translation Wirth (1933):

hell von Augen, klar von Verstand und licht von Geist

In einer hellen Nacht kamen sie alle

bis es hell und klar in jedwedem Herzen und Haupte wird

Hell von Haupt und klar von Sinn

seiner blauen Augen und seines hellen Haares

[Ott]

hel - noun - light, clarity

correction:

hel - adjective - light, clear (etc.)

[The Puzzler]

You have no clue.

From translation Wirth (1933):

hell von Augen, klar von Verstand und licht von Geist

In einer hellen Nacht kamen sie alle

bis es hell und klar in jedwedem Herzen und Haupte wird

Hell von Haupt und klar von Sinn

seiner blauen Augen und seines hellen Haares

By going away from the true Frisian language you are doing the OLB an injustice.

There is no reason to use any other word than 'whole' which is exactly what the word is. Why you even want to use another word that doesn't equate to hel and hal (Nyhellenia and Nehallenia) is beyond me, but continue with your insults if you feel the need to.

I believe there is no examples in the OLB of the word HEL meaning anything other than words that associate to WHOLE. clear/klar and light/licht are used when meant.

clear (adj.)

late 13c., "bright," from Old French cler "clear" (of sight and hearing), "light, bright, shining; sparse" (12c., Modern French clair), from Latin clarus "clear, loud," of sounds; figuratively "manifest, plain, evident," in transferred use, of sights, "bright, distinct;" also "illustrious, famous, glorious" (source of Italian chiaro, Spanish claro), from PIE *kle-ro-, from root *kele- (2) "to shout" (see claim (v.)).

The sense evolution involves an identification of the spreading of sound and the spreading of light (compare English loud, used of colors; German hell "clear, bright, shining," of pitch, "distinct, ringing, high"). Of complexion, from c. 1300; of the weather, from late 14c.; of meanings or explanations, "manifest to the mind, comprehensible," c. 1300. (An Old English word for this was sweotol "distinct, clear, evident."

whole (adj.)

Old English hal "entire, whole; unhurt, uninjured, safe; healthy, sound; genuine, straightforward," from Proto-Germanic *haila- "undamaged" (cognates: Old Saxon hel, Old Norse heill, Old Frisian hal, Middle Dutch hiel, Dutch heel, Old High German, German heil "salvation, welfare"), from PIE *kailo- "whole, uninjured, of good omen" (cognates: Old Church Slavonic celu "whole, complete;" see health).

Whole: W.: nfries. hel, Adj., heil, unverletzt; W.: saterl. hel,

Edited April 29, 2015 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

correction:

hel - adjective - light, clear (etc.)

correction:

hel - adjective - whole, healthy, sound, genuine (etc.)

[Ott]

There is no reason to use any other word than 'whole' which is exactly what the word is.

So how would you translate (and please check the context of these fragments yourself):

TILTHJU THAT HEL BLIKA SKOLDE

HEL FON ÁGNUM. KLÁR FON BRYN ÀND LICHT FON GÁST

VPPEN HELLE NACHT

BI HELLE DÉI

MITH HEL BLIKANDA FARWA MÁLAD

HEL FON HAWED ÀND KLÁR FON SIN

continue with your insults if you feel the need to

You feel insulted when you are corrected?

Edited April 29, 2015 by Jan Ott

[The Puzzler]

So how would you translate (and please check the context of these fragments yourself):

TILTHJU THAT HEL BLIKA SKOLDE

HEL FON ÁGNUM. KLÁR FON BRYN ÀND LICHT FON GÁST

VPPEN HELLE NACHT

BI HELLE DÉI

MITH HEL BLIKANDA FARWA MÁLAD

HEL FON HAWED ÀND KLÁR FON SIN

You feel insulted when you are corrected?

Not at all, you can correct someone without belittling them.

Specially her utter cluelessness

You have no clue

OK Ill check and get back to you.

Edited April 29, 2015 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

Vppen helle nacht kêmon hja alla.

One bright night they all came.

Could actually be:

Upon (.a) dark/concealed night came them all.

Where helle = hell

http://www.etymonlin...x.php?term=hell

cognates: f. Old Frisian helle,

Because this is in the Frisian dictionary and translates through this context, Id be more likely to think it's been translated wrong. However, the German hell can be used to describe the range of light, so it wouldn't be unusual to have in that sentence. It's not HEL though. But since Im trying to stick to Frisian, a meaning more to dark, concealed would seem to fit. A bit rushed, back later and by no means set on that, just saying, it seems to me it would work but Id have to compare other words etc yet. Why would they come on a bright night anyway, seems bad things would happen on a dark, concealed night...

Edited April 29, 2015 by The Puzzler

[Ott]

Not at all, you can correct someone without belittling them.

Specially her utter cluelessness

You have no clue

I also gave the German fragments to demonstrate how clueless you are.

But I suppose I'd have to translate them too for you, wasting ever more time.

[Ott]

Vppen helle nacht kêmon hja alla.

One bright night they all came.

Could actually be:

Upon (.a) dark/concealed night came them all.

It would almost be funny, if it was not such mindwaste for the other readers of this thread (making this topic ever more impopular).