Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

[Abramelin]

I see it: Deu Tuist/Tuisc.

"God Tuisc".

.

Edited November 30, 2012 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

That should have been:

Deutsch: Bedeutung.

A more original spelling of Dutch and Deutsch would be Diutisc or Theodisk.

~

I wonder if the French verb dire (to say) is related too: il a dit = he has said

Latin verb dictare = dictate

Dutch verb dichten = write poetry, verse

etc.

Latin "dictare" is pronounced like "dik-tah-reh", with a -K-.

And we know what a -K- becomes in Frisian: -TSH-., like the English -CH- in chocolate.

So "dictare" would sound like "ditshare" in Frisian, close to "Deutsch" or "diets".

Nice going, lol.

But it's not the other way round: the Latins didn't change the -TSH- consonant into the -K- consonant. Not that I know of, that is.

So the question is: who borrowed what from whom?

.

Edited November 30, 2012 by Abramelin

[Van Gorp]

Latin "dictare" is pronounced like "dik-tah-reh", with a -K-.

And we know what a -K- becomes in Frisian: -TSH-., like the English -CH- in chocolate.

So "dictare" would sound like "ditshare" in Frisian, close to "Deutsch" or "diets".

Nice going, lol.

But it's not the other way round: the Latins didn't change the -TSH- consonant into the -K- consonant. Not that I know of, that is.

So the question is: who borrowed what from whom?

.

Latin has had many variants in pronounciation and writing, no real standard and ever evolving (untill now).

Take 'dicere'.

I think the meaning 'uit' is central.

Toth and Duiden, Dien (Explain)

Connection Teutonen, Teuten, Tuytschen, Dietsen?

Teut, Toot (als de bek van Toth): uit-steeksel, eigenlijk uit-getrokken (t’uit als lippen tuiten, of tie’d van tie’n) -> ergens tijd voor uit-trekken

Duiden : d’uiten, be-d’euten, wat wil dat ‘zeggen’ -> uiten, uit-leg, uit-spraak, dus died is d’uit (over en uit) is dood, een punt erachter schrijven and we place the dot).

Penne-trek of uit-schrijven. Uit-treksel.

Tuytschen -> T’uutschen (volk dat uit het gebied gingen, going out), trekkers, d’uitsen, diet-sen.

D’uitelijk maken is dus diets maken. Uit-leggen, Ex-plain.

Tie’n -> trekken (ich tei em af in het dialect, ik trek erop uit) -> tiet voor uit-trekken -> tijd trekt voorbij -> alles komt terug -> tied, tide goes up and down

Rek-en-ing houdend met de juiste maat is dat goed uit-gerekend -> da’s bill-ijk :-)

[Abramelin]

Try English.

Anyway, my idea is that the tribe's name simply meant "the people".

Tuatha, Teuto, Diets.

"Tuatha De Danann", the people (Tuatha) of the goddess (De) Dana.

Many people all over the earth carried a name that, translated,. meant nothing else but 'the People'.

Tacitus' "Tuisco/Tuisto" may have meant nothing else but "The Man", and his people were "The Men", his men, his people., his followers.

.

Edited November 30, 2012 by Abramelin

[Van Gorp]

Try English.

.

You try to understand the language you try to spreak :-)

[Otharus]

Anyway, my idea is that the tribe's name simply meant "the people".

In OLB the word "THJUD" is also used in both meanings.

I already gave the quotes where it meant 'duiden' (to mean, show, explain etc.).

Here are the ones where it means people:

[039/20] Minno's Skrifta

THA FORSTA ÀND PRESTERA KÉMON BÁRJA THAT WI HJARA TJVTH OVER HÉRICH MAKAD HÉDE

ÀND THÀT FOLK KÉM TO VS VMBE HUL ÀND SKUL

[O+S p.57]

De vorsten en priesteren kwamen en gaven voor dat wij hunne onderdanen oproerig gemaakt hadden,

en het volk kwam tot ons om heul en schut te vragen.

The priests and the princes declared that we had excited their subjects to rebellion,

and the people appealed to us for aid and protection.

[097/10] Burchfám's Love

THA FÉRHÉMANDA HÉRA KÉMON HJARA THJUD ASKJA

[O+S p.135]

De uitheemsche heeren kwamen hunne lieden opeischen;

The foreign lords came to look after their people,

[113/12] Apollánja's Fárt

WI NE SKILUN NÉN BIHOF LONGER NAVT NÀVE AN THÀT WLA THJUD

[O+S p.155]

wij zullen geen behoefte langer hebben aan dat vuile volk.

we shall have no occasion to deal with those nasty people.

[Otharus]

And there is this fragment, that I suspect was mistranslated by Ottema and Sandbach (as well as Jensma):

[002/20] Adela's Rede

THÉR HÉRDON HJA MITH LUSTUM NÉI THA VRDWÁLSKA FINNA SÁGUM.

THRVCHDAM HJA THJVD ÀND NÉI WÉRON.

SÁ SEND HJA VNT.FRYAST VNTHONKES THENE WALD HJARAR ALDRUM

[O+S p.7]

Daar hoorden zij met welgevallen [:lusten] naar de losbandige [:overdwaalse] sagen der Finnen,

omdat die slecht [? duidelijk, verklarend] en nieuw waren.

Zoo zijn zij ontfriesd ondanks de macht hunner ouders.

{N.B. indien THJVD hier slecht betekent - zoals in Nyfrysk -, hoort middelste regel bij laatste, niet bij eerste regel!}

There they learned with pleasure the loose ways of the Finns,

because they were bad [illustrative, explainable?] and new;

and thus they became denationalised in spite of the efforts of their parents.

{note: if THJVD has a negative meaning, like in newfrisian, the 2nd line belongs to the third}

[Abramelin]

You try to understand the language you try to spreak :-)

I do try, but I don't use my fantasies and daydreams to guide me.

In OLB the word "THJUD" is also used in both meanings.

I already gave the quotes where it meant 'duiden' (to mean, show, explain etc.).

Here are the ones where it means people:

[039/20] Minno's Skrifta

THA FORSTA ÀND PRESTERA KÉMON BÁRJA THAT WI HJARA TJVTH OVER HÉRICH MAKAD HÉDE

ÀND THÀT FOLK KÉM TO VS VMBE HUL ÀND SKUL

[O+S p.57]

De vorsten en priesteren kwamen en gaven voor dat wij hunne onderdanen oproerig gemaakt hadden,

en het volk kwam tot ons om heul en schut te vragen.

The priests and the princes declared that we had excited their subjects to rebellion,

and the people appealed to us for aid and protection.

[097/10] Burchfám's Love

THA FÉRHÉMANDA HÉRA KÉMON HJARA THJUD ASKJA

[O+S p.135]

De uitheemsche heeren kwamen hunne lieden opeischen;

The foreign lords came to look after their people,

[113/12] Apollánja's Fárt

WI NE SKILUN NÉN BIHOF LONGER NAVT NÀVE AN THÀT WLA THJUD

[O+S p.155]

wij zullen geen behoefte langer hebben aan dat vuile volk.

we shall have no occasion to deal with those nasty people.

There you go: PEOPLE.

[Abramelin]

Sometimes words with totally different origins and meanings evolve into words that look very alike.

That's what I once called "covergent etymology", similar to what happened in biology: you have canines, and you have Tasmanian Tigers: they look the same, but they are not anywhere related.

.

[Van Gorp]

Off course also used in relation to people:

Die-Uit, here you go. And specially for you: de uit-komst (can be used also as the off-spring), daar komen ze uit.

[Abramelin]

You know that is bs, right? I hope you do, lol.

Die-Uit = That-Out.

[Van Gorp]

You know that is bs, right? I hope you do, lol.

Die-Uit = That-Out.

Hi Abe, we agree talking about people right?

So for me it is more in the sense of generalised of "Those-Out" (in the example of Dana it is Die-Uit-de Dana (region) and I'm not joking :-)

In Dutch when presenting to each other, we say: "Hello nice to meat you, I'm Van Gorp uit Gorp, and you?"

Willing to learn, so what else could be a meaningfull explanation of the forming of that particular word that can mean 'People'?

[Abramelin]

"Tuatha De Dannan"....

"DE" means 'god(dess)', "DANANN" means 'Dana'.

So you think "Tuatha" means "those out"? "Those out of goddess Dana"?

Nah.

it's the People of Dana, or Dana's People.

Think Jesus' People, Followers of Jesus, and so on.

[Otharus]

Sometimes words with totally different origins and meanings evolve into words that look very alike.

And sometimes words with exactly the same origin and meaning devolve into words that seem totally different.

A recent example.

Before the thirties the word Führer had a neutral meaning. It meant the same everywhere: leader, guide.

Since Hitler got power it started to have diverging meanings; to some it sounded very positive (god-given) for others the opposite (evil-incarnate).

That's how OD, which is something good in North Europe (think 'ode'), may have got to mean the root of 'hate' in Latin.

Etymologists are not sure about THJUD either.

M. Philippa e.a. (2003-2009) Etymologisch Woordenboek van het Nederlands:

duiden ww. ‘uitleggen, vertalen; betekenen’ [...]

Het woord wordt vaak in verband gebracht met pgm. *þeuðō- ‘volk’, zie diets,

en zou dan letterlijk moeten betekenen ‘voor het volk verklaren, vertalen, duidelijk maken’.

Semantisch gezien kan het echter geen afleiding van dat woord zijn.

Daarom is vermoedelijk een ander woord secundair op *þeuðō- betrokken;

dat zou het bn. *þeuþa- ‘goed’ kunnen zijn (waaruit mnl. ge-diede ‘voorkomend, welwillend’).

Het werkwoord zal dan ‘goed, begrijpelijk maken’ betekenen. Zie ook beduiden; duidelijk.

Mnd. düden; ohd. diuten ‘verklaren, betekenen, vertalen’ (nhd. deuten);

ofri. bi-thiuda ‘verklaren’ (nfri. tsjutte);

oe. ge-ðiodan ‘vertalen’;

on. þýða ‘uitleggen, betekenen’ (nzw. tyda ‘duiden’);

< pgm. *þeuþjan- ‘begrijpelijk maken’, bij pgm. *þeuþa- ‘goed’ (EWgP 621-23).

Bij pgm. *þeuþa- ook os. githiudo ‘gepast’ en mnd. dieden ‘helpen’;

oe. geþiede ‘goed, deugdzaam’ en geþiedan ‘deelnemen; helpen’;

on. þýðr ‘vriendelijk’; got. þiuþ ‘goed’.

De homonymie met vormen die horen bij pgm. *þeuðō- ‘volk’ maakt de verdere etymologie moeilijk.

Misschien is er verband met pie. *teu- ‘vriendelijk bezien’ (IEW 1079-80).

"Semantisch gezien kan het echter geen afleiding van dat woord zijn."

=> This does not mean that both meanings can not have a shared origin.

~

Note that these names of Merovingean kings are also related:

1) Theuderik/ Diederik (c.485 - c.533), married to Suavegotha [later Diederik devolved into Dirk, Dick]

2a) son: Theudebert/ Thibert/ Théodebert (c.533 - c.547), married to Deuteria

2b) daughter: Theodechild

3) son: Theudebald/ Theudowald/ Theobald/ Thibaud (c.537 - 555), married to Waldrada

~

Possibly, this is how 'tsjoed' (also) came to mean evil, bad in the Frisian language.

yn goede en yn tsjoede dagen = in good and in bad days

Edited December 1, 2012 by Otharus

[Otharus]

I can see clearly now how THJUD (deut, duidt, diet, etc.) is even related to our very (grammatic) articles (german: Artikel/ dutch: lidwoorden) the, de, die (etc.).

In OLB and oldfrisian: THJU.

Also used in combination, for example TILTHJU = opdat, zodat.

Those words are pointers, indicators, signifiers or whatever the linguistic term is (duidwoorden, deutwörter?).

No time to explain better, I just wanted to be the first to have said this.

[The Puzzler]

In OLB the word "THJUD" is also used in both meanings.

I already gave the quotes where it meant 'duiden' (to mean, show, explain etc.).

Here are the ones where it means people:

[039/20] Minno's Skrifta

THA FORSTA ÀND PRESTERA KÉMON BÁRJA THAT WI HJARA TJVTH OVER HÉRICH MAKAD HÉDE

ÀND THÀT FOLK KÉM TO VS VMBE HUL ÀND SKUL

[O+S p.57]

De vorsten en priesteren kwamen en gaven voor dat wij hunne onderdanen oproerig gemaakt hadden,

en het volk kwam tot ons om heul en schut te vragen.

The priests and the princes declared that we had excited their subjects to rebellion,

and the people appealed to us for aid and protection.

[097/10] Burchfám's Love

THA FÉRHÉMANDA HÉRA KÉMON HJARA THJUD ASKJA

[O+S p.135]

De uitheemsche heeren kwamen hunne lieden opeischen;

The foreign lords came to look after their people,

[113/12] Apollánja's Fárt

WI NE SKILUN NÉN BIHOF LONGER NAVT NÀVE AN THÀT WLA THJUD

[O+S p.155]

wij zullen geen behoefte langer hebben aan dat vuile volk.

we shall have no occasion to deal with those nasty people.

thiæ-d

(2), afries., st. F. (æ): Vw.: s. thiõ-d

thiæ-d-a

* 1 und häufiger?, thið-d-a, afries., sw. V. (1): nhd. deuten; ne. interpret;

Vw.: s. bi-; Hw.: vgl. an. þ‘da (3), ae. *þíedan (1), ahd. diuten (1); Q.: S; E.:

germ. *þeudjan, sw. V., deuten; s. idg. *teutõ, F., Volk, Land, Pokorny 1084; vgl.

idg. *tÐu-, *týu-, *teøý-, *tøæ-, *tÈ-, *teøh

2-, V., schwellen, Pokorny 1080; L.: Hh

111b, Rh 1074b

thiæ-d-e

(1) 6, thiæ-th-e, afries., F.: nhd. Deutung, Auslegung; ne. interpretation;

E.: s. thiæ-d-a*; R.: to thiæ-d-e, afries., Adj.: nhd. deutsch, in der Volkssprache; ne.

in the own language; L.: Hh 111b, Hh 176, Rh 1075a

thiæ-d-isk

* 1 und häufiger?, thiæ-d-sk, afries., Adj.: nhd. deutsch; ne. German

(Adj.); Hw.: vgl. got. þiudiskæ, as. thiudisk*, ahd. diutisk*; E.: germ. *þeudiska-,

*þeudiskaz, Adj., völkisch; s. idg. *teutõ, F., Volk, Land, Pokorny 1084; vgl. idg.

*tÐu-, *týu-, *teøý-, *tøæ-, *tÈ-, *teøh

2-, V., schwellen, Pokorny 1080; L.: Hh 111b

http://www.koeblerge...h/afries-Th.pdf

Just thought I'd add that.

Also dire means bad.

--------------------------------------------------

I noticed karlis had posted this topic - English is a Scandinavian Language - Sensational new claims by linguist.

http://www.unexplain...howtopic=238381

Edited December 1, 2012 by The Puzzler

[Otharus]

The Greek words τόδε τι and τάδε

Die Form macht die Materie zu einem Einzelding, einem „Dies da“ (tode ti).

wikipedia/Metaphysik_Aristoteles

The Meaning of Tode Ti in the Categories [...]

In the latter usage, 'water' signifies a 'this something' (tode ti).

dissoiblogoi/meaning-of-tode-ti

Acts 21:11 DPro-ANP

BIB: χεῖρας εἶπεν Τάδε λέγει τὸ

NAS: and said, This is what the Holy

KJV: feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy

INT: hands said Thus says the

&

Revelation 2:1 DPro-ANP

BIB: ἐκκλησίας γράψον Τάδε λέγει ὁ

NAS: lampstands, says this:

KJV: write; These things saith

INT: church write These things says he who

(etc.)

biblesuite/tade

~

The Greek tode-ti and tade can simply be translated as dotte-die (that-which) and datte (that) from slang (oral) Dutch...

[Abramelin]

Amber - Phoenicians - the Baltic:

The Baltic Lithuanian term for amber is Gintaras and Latvian Dzintars. They, and the Slavic jantar or Hungarian gyanta ('resin'), are thought to originate from Phoenician jainitar (sea-resin). While most Slavic languages, including Russian, Slovak, and Czech, retain the old Slavic word, in the Polish and Belarusian languages, jantar, while correct, is used very rarely (even considered archaic) and was replaced by the word bursztyn, deriving from the German term, Bernstein.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amber

In Scandinavia the amber road probably gave rise to the thriving Nordic Bronze Age culture, bringing influences from the Mediterranean Sea to the northernmost countries of Europe. The Baltic Lithuanian term for amber is Gintaras and Latvian Dzintars. They and the Slavic jantar are thought to originate from Phoenician jainitar (sea-resin). However, while most Slavic languages, such as Russian and Czech, retain the old Slavic word, in the Polish language, despite still correct, it is used very rarely (even considered archaic) and was replaced by the word bursztyn deriving from the German analogue, Bernstein.

-

The amber collection is the richest from ancient world: Aquileia, in fact, was at the end of the so-called amber-route, coming from the Baltic sea through the Alps, the most important trade route from northern Europe to the Mediterranean sea. Amber was believed to have magic properties, and it was used for little statues, collars, rings, used as talismans.

http://www.allartlak...szins&Itemid=71

Acient Romans would associate amber colour with lynx`es urine – and call it lyncurium. Rubbed amber has a typical smell of ambra, which gave the Arabic name Anbar. It is also known as Jantar, coming from Lithuania and even earlier from Fenicians` Jainitar – the sea resin.

http://www.diamentum.nazwa.pl/AR2/ARObursztynieEN.swf

The material called amber has been associated with the Phoenicians for a very long time. The Greek poet named Homer has several references to the same material in the long epic poems called the Iliad and the Odyssey.

Homer tied this very firmly to the Phoenicians. They are treated very much as the crafty Semites still being written about in European literature by such as William Shakespeare (16 th/17 th c. English), as when he describes Shylock the Jew in Merchant of Venice. Just how early this began is uncertain but many writers want Homer to have been as early as the 10 th c. B.C. If so, this means that the Phoenicians were trading amber before that date.

Joannes Richter (Spelling Thee, U and I 2006 & online) is probably the most comprehensive and up-to-date study of the ancient European trading in amber. It is very likely that it will remain the standard work on the subject for a while to come. He demonstrates that on distributional grounds, amber and tin in west Europe can be coupled. Even if Richter's lists are a little too full, this serves to illustrate that what Herodotus says on amber plus tin coming together from Atlantic-west Europe.

That amber came by way of the coasts of Europe is surely confirmed by the Greek term of elektron seemingly applied to the Frisian Isles as the Electrides. The native name of Glessum for the same islands was apparently known to the Romans as Glessaria: presumably, the Romans were after the same material.

--

Whether it will ever prove possible to more directly connect the proven cats of Iron Age date in Britain (as at Danebury [Hants] & sites in Wiltshire & the Scillies) plus another possible in Ireland at Crannog No.1 at Ballinderry (Offaly) remains moot. However, it is worth recalling what was said by the sources cited in "Phoenicians in East in East Africa: From "the Med. To the Red" about the way the cat spread and closely this coincides with Phoenician ships. Also observe in passing, the prominent role of cats in the Brehon Code (= the law-corpus of ancient Ire. & the most comprehensive of ancient west Eur.) not just as pets but for the practical vermin-catching qualities that may have decided whether a family would survive a harsh winter or not

The direct Mediterrano/southern linkage is presumably strengthened by the find of a skull of Barbary ape (the type well known to us in Britain via those at Gibraltar) at Emain Macha (close to Armagh) as part of an apparent ritual deposit of the "wing of bat/eye of newt" more familiar to many of us from the "hubble, bubble, toil & trouble" scene attaching to the three witches in the play by Shakespeare called Macbeth.

http://phoenicia.org...ancornwall.html

http://www.eternalidol.com/?p=7849

Yes, I also saw that the Phoenician (?) word for amber closely resembles this word:

janitor (n.)

1580s, "an usher in a school," later "doorkeeper" (1620s), from L. ianitor "doorkeeper, porter," from ianua "door, entrance, gate," from ianus "arched passageway, arcade" (see Janus) + agent suffix -tor. Meaning "caretaker of a building" first recorded 1708.

So, alas... (and I already regret bringing it up, lol)

.

[Abramelin]

What I am trying to say here is that there are enough clues that Phoenicians and Miinoans/Mycenians visited the coasts of the North Sea and the Baltic.

Linguistic clues and archeological artifacts.

But what I have never posted before, and keeps bugging my mind is this:

When I was in my teens, I once read either a newspaper article or some book, that flatly stated that the typical Dutch word "dijk" ("dike" in English) came from the Phoenician language.

I have tried to find the source for that idea for many years now, but failed to find it.

And you can bet I remember that well: I have always been quite fanatic concerning ancient sailors traveling the seas.

.

Edited December 1, 2012 by Abramelin

[Otharus]

... the typical Dutch word "dijk" ("dike" in English)...

All I can add to that is the relation with ditch and the verb to dig.

[Van Gorp]

A possible explanation of Dijk.

"Dijk" is the result of De-Ijk.

Ijken: Making reliable for measurement -> being sure the boundaries are not surpassed

Related with 'dig'ing and making thick (dik).

[Abramelin]

Related with "digging", I agree, but not with the rest.

When you dig, you create a hole in the ground, and a heap of dirt alongside of the hole at the same time.

[Abramelin]

All I can add to that is the relation with ditch and the verb to dig.

"Ditch" is formed by the ending -K- consonant changing into -TSH- , Frisian style.

[Otharus]

Related with "digging", I agree, but not with the rest.

etymonline.com/ditch

ditch (n.)

O.E. dic "ditch, dike," a variant of dike (q.v.). Last ditch (1715) refers to the last line of military defenses.

edit: OK now I understand that your answer was for VG, not me.

good night

Edited December 1, 2012 by Otharus

[Van Gorp]

etymonline.com/ditch

ditch (n.)

O.E. dic "ditch, dike," a variant of dike (q.v.). Last ditch (1715) refers to the last line of military defenses.

edit: OK now I understand that your answer was for VG, not me.

good night

"Een dijk van een match" -> dik in orde -> degelijk -> dik-gelijk (deeg is dik) -> dik-wijls ... een dijk is dik en "de dijk is de ijk" (there is no denying in the word).

Where is Phoenicia in all this?