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Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]


Abramelin
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Interesting thanks, it seemed to me the Romans were describing, in terms of great and magnificent, actual man made columns. If you look at how the Irminsul could be depicted, then a harbour is an appropriate context for them to have been placed, a lot of their symbolism involves binding together, whether Heaven and Earth, land and sea, male and female, North and South or East/West, winter/summer etc.

http://odinsvolk.ca/irminsul.htm

Another thing I found about those 'irminsuls' is a possible explanation of the word:

Verhandeling over het Westland, ter Opheldering der Loo- en, Woerden.- Buddingh /1844

http://books.google....epage&q&f=false

This author explains it like this: Irminsul = Irmen Zuil, or a pillar erected in the honour of Herman/Arminius.

Another possibility he mentions is that the first part of the word is "Jörmun" = earth, or a pillar erected for Earth, a kind of "Yggdrasil" (World-tree).

"Sul" is "zuil" in modern Dutch, and it means "pillar" or "column". Similar words from Old Saxon, Old High German, Old Frisian, but its origin is unknown.

And if you read the English Wiki page about "Irminsul", then you'll see Tacitus wasn't that sure about those Germanic pillars being the Pillars of Hercules.

In Tacitus' Germania, the author mentions rumors of what he describes as "Pillars of Hercules" in land inhabited by the Frisii that had yet to be explored. Tacitus adds that these pillars exist either because Hercules actually did go there or because the Romans have agreed to ascribe all marvels anywhere to Hercules' credit. Tacitus states that while Drusus Germanicus was daring in his campaigns against the Germanic tribes, he was unable to reach this region, and that subsequently no one had yet made the attempt. Connections have been proposed between these "Pillars of Hercules" and later accounts of the Irminsuls. Hercules was likely frequently identified with Thor by the Romans due to the practice of "interpretatio romana".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irminsul

.

Edited by Abramelin
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I'll tell you something else: I do think there is a possibility that Homer based his Ilias and Odyssey on something that happened in the North Sea/ Baltic area, and that the Greeks adopted those myths/stories and made them happen in the Med.

But to prove that, using only language, you will have to know and prove how people in the Baltic and North Sea area spoke 3500+ years ago.

Just for interest: The Hellespont mentioned below is the same one I think is the true one, situated East Baltic, right at the mouth of the Vistula, it has Helle. sometimes on old maps.

Plutarch's indications allow us to identify Ogygia with one of the Faroe Islands (where we also come across an island with a curiously Greek-sounding name: Mykines) and, starting from here, the route eastwards, which Ulysses follows (Book V of the Odyssey) in his voyage from Ogygia to Scheria allows us to locate the latter, i.e. the land of the Phaeacians, on the southern coast of Norway, in an area perfectly fitting the account of his arrival, where archaeological traces of the Bronze Age are plentiful. In addition, on the one hand in Old Norse "sker" means a "sea rock", on the other in the narrative of Ulysses's landing Homer introduces the reversal of the river current, which is unknown in the Mediterranean world but is typical of the Atlantic estuaries during flood tide.

From here the Phaeacians took Ulysses to Ithaca, located on the far side of an archipelago, which Homer talks about in great detail. At this point, a series of precise parallels makes it possible to identify a group of Danish islands, in the south of the Baltic Sea, which correspond exactly to all Homer's indications. Actually, the South-Fyn Archipelago includes three main islands: Langeland (the "Long Island"; which finally unveils the puzzle of the mysterious island of Dulichium), Aerø (which corresponds perfectly to Homeric Same) and Tåsinge (ancient Zacynthus). The last island in the archipelago, located westwards, "facing the night", is Ulysses's Ithaca, now known as Lyø. It is astonishing how greatly it coincides with the indications of the poet, not only as far as its position is concerned, but also its topographical and morphological characteristics: for example, one can identify the ancient "Phorcys's Harbour" and the "Crow's Rock" (which corresponds to a Neolithic dolmen standing in the west of the island). And here, amongst this group of islands, we can even identify the little island "in the strait between Ithaca and Same", where the Penelope's suitors tried to waylay Telemachus.

Moreover, the Elis, i.e. one of the regions of Peloponnese, is described as lying to the east of Ithaca and in front of Dulichium. It is easily identifiable with a part of the large Danish island of Zealand. Therefore, the latter is the original "Peloponnese", i.e. "Pelops's Island", in the real meaning of the word "island" ("nêsos" in Greek)! On the other hand, the Greek Peloponnese (which is located in a similar position in the Aegean Sea, i.e. in its southwestern side) is not an island despite its denomination. This contradiction, which is inexplicable unless we suppose a transposition of the name, is very significant. Furthermore, the details reported in the Odyssey regarding both Telemachus's quick journey by chariot from Pylos to Lacedaemon, along "a wheat-producing plain", and the development of the war between Pylians and Epeans, as narrated by Nestor in Book XI of the Iliad, have always been considered inconsistent with Greece's uneven orography. They fit in perfectly, however, with the reality of the flat Danish island.

Now let us turn to the region of Troy. In the Iliad it is located along Hellespont which is systematically described as being a "wide" or even "boundless" sea. We can, therefore, exclude the fact that it refers to the Dardanelles, where the city found by Schliemann lies. The identification of this city with Homer's Troy continues to raise strong doubts: we only have to think of Finley's criticism in the World of Odysseus. On the other hand, the Danish Medieval historian Saxo Grammaticus in his Gesta Danorum often mentions a population known as "Hellespontians" and a region called Hellespont, which, strangely enough, seems to be located in the east of the Baltic Sea. Could it be Homer's Hellespont? We can identify it with the Gulf of Finland, which is the "geographic counterpart" of the Dardanelles (as a matter of fact, both of them lie to the Northeast in their respective seas). Since Troy, according to the Iliad, was situated Northeast of the sea (here is another reason to dispute Schliemann's location), then it seems reasonable, for the purpose of this research, to go over a region of southern Finland, where the Gulf of Finland joins the Baltic Sea. In this area, west of Helsinki, we find lots of name-places which astonishingly resemble those mentioned in the Iliad and, in particular, those given to the allies of the Trojans: Askainen (Ascanius), Reso (Rhesus), Karjaa (Caria), Nästi (Nastes, the chief of the Carians), Lyökki (Lycia), Tenala (Tenedos), Kiila (Cilla), Kiikoinen (Ciconians) etc. There is also a Padva, which reminds us of Italian Padua, which was founded, according to tradition, by the Trojan Antenor and lies in the region of Veneto (the "Eneti" or "Veneti" were allies of the Trojans). What is more, the place-names Tanttala and Sipilä (the mythical King Tantalus, famous for his torment, was buried on Mount Sipylus) indicate that this matter is not only limited to Homeric geography, but seems to extend to the whole world of Greek mythology

http://itis.volta.al...me/ep2vinc2.htm

Edited by The Puzzler
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In short, apart from the morphological characteristics of this area, the geographic position of this Finnish Troas fits the mythological directions like a glove. We finally come to understand why a "thick fog" often fell on those fighting on the Trojan plain and why Ulysses's sea was never as bright as that of the Greek islands, but always "grey" and "misty". As we travel through Homer's world, we experience the harsh weather which is typical of the Nordic world. The weather described throughout has little to do with the Mediterranean climate, with its fog, wind, rain, cold temperatures and snow (which falls on the plains and even out to sea) whilst the sun and warm temperatures are mentioned hardly ever. Most of the time we find unsettled weather, to the point that the bronze-clad fighting warriors invoke cloudless sky during the battle! We are far away from the torrid Anatolian lowlands. The way in which Homer's characters are dressed is in perfect keeping with this kind of climate. They wear tunics and "thick, heavy cloaks" which they never remove, not even during banquettes. This attire corresponds exactly to the remains of clothing found in Bronze Age Danish graves, down to details as the metal brooch which pined the cloak on the shoulder.

http://itis.volta.al...me/ep2vinc2.htm

I'll add this interesting bit while I'm here...

Next, proceeding with the sequence, we reach the Finnish coast, facing the Gulf of Bothnia, where we find Jolkka, which reminds us of Iolcus, Jason's mythical city. Further north, we are also able to identify the region of Olympus, Styx and Pieria in the Finnish Lapland (which in turn recalls the Homeric Lapithae, i.e. the sworn enemies of the Centaurs who also lived in this area). This location of Pieria north of the Arctic Circle is confirmed by an apparent astronomical anomaly, linked to the moon cycles, which is found in the Homeric Hymn to Hermes: it can only be explained by high latitude. The "Home of Hades" was even further northwards, on the icy coasts of Russian Karelia: here Ulysses arrived, whose journeys represent the last vestige of prehistoric routes in an era which was characterised by a very warmer climate than today's.

In conclusion, from this review of the Baltic world, we find its astonishing consistency with the Catalogue of Ships as well as the entire Greek mythology (Tab. 1). It is very unlikely that this immense set of geographical, climatic, toponymical and morphological parallels is to be ascribed to mere chance, apart from considering the glaring contradictions arising in the Mediterranean setting.

Edited by The Puzzler
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It appears to me that the oldest known names of"Medemblik" didn't use the -B- at all.

The older the map, the more you will see something like "Medemleck".

"Medea my laugh" (Mêdêa mei lakkja), but so do I, lol.

.

This book mentions about Medea too and that Medemblik is named after her.

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=c5WdgrsyTRIC&pg=PA13&lpg=PA13&dq=medea+medemblik&source=bl&ots=24oNfUfCaN&sig=rqLXvUZV_PWX8qVBhsAAZ8qE6ME&hl=en&sa=X&ei=3XS_T8T2EsndigfGi-2sCg&ved=0CE0Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=medea%20medemblik&f=false

Edited by The Puzzler
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This book mentions about Medea too and that Medemblik is named after her.

http://books.google....AEwAw#v=onepage

Yes, and no doubt the info in that modern book is based on those old Dutch sources I have been quoting from.

My point was: the oldest forms of the name for Medemblik have no -B- in them.

So the oldest name of the city has never been anything like "Medeas blik", but more like "Medem lik/lek" As I read somewhere, it's obvious the -B- between -M- and -L- in Medemblik is to make the name easier to pronounce than with only -ML- .

.

Edited by Abramelin
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Another thing I found about those 'irminsuls' is a possible explanation of the word:

Verhandeling over het Westland, ter Opheldering der Loo- en, Woerden.- Buddingh /1844

http://books.google....epage&q&f=false

This author explains it like this: Irminsul = Irmen Zuil, or a pillar erected in the honour of Herman/Arminius.

.

Yes, the most likely translation is simply great or mighty pillar/column, a term of the Ingaevones.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingaevones

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The book is also full with other names passing in OLB. Hellena not the least.

Hel and Enfer is very interesting -> Hell the under-ground (Hel is descend), that’s why the modern Hell is located underground.

Though previous connected with paradise and everlasting justice (see the place where even the death are judged for their deeds) ???

Elysée is in that view not other than Hellisch.

Hel-In -> descend in, lean towards or just the natural inclination of how things go in life (flow of water from higher to lower fe, the simple life fe, go with the flow).

I would be perhaps more interested in Nerthus and her relationship to sacred islands and water;

The sanctuary is on an island, peninsula, or connected with sea- trade; Nerthus on an island in the Ocean, Nærbjerg on the isolated peninsular “Holy-ness” in N. Jutland, 2 Nærth-owæ (“Nerthus-hills”) on the island of Funen; residence of a goddess in Hleiðrar on the isle of Sea-land, Niartherum on the isle of Sealand, islet Niærdholm near the coast of Skane, mythical residence of Niorðr in Noa-tun, “Naval town.”

http://www.northvegr...erthus/001.html

And so it goes on, till at last the goddess gets tired of the intercourse with the mortal beings and retires to her temple. Then immediately the chariot and the garments, and, if people may believe it, the goddess is washed in a secret lake. Slaves make service at the washing, and immediately after it they are swallowed by the lake. Hence is the origin of the mysterious terror and the sacred ignorance about what that may be which nobody is allowed to see unless he is sure to die."

It was seemingly nice living, governed by Roux Rhadamante (Raad-mannen, de Roe-Wisen -> Druids) with people of just behaviour and good morals.

Located in the extreme part (of the known world).

This is interesting;

GMC raidho wagon

GO raidha wagon, ride

OE radh a riding, way

ON reidh riding, chariot

rad/raed wheel/vehicle

A cosmic chariot, solar chariot, the wheel of stars

A chariot of a god or goddess

Estatic journey

Rhythm and movement are important to the concept of Raidho. The sound and dance of the estatic traveler who is carried on a circular journey. The spiral journey of the sun on it's annual course from North to South and back, as in the journey of Nerthus and Freyr's processions. It is the wheeling of stars around the cosmic axis. It can be thought of as the chariot of Thor or Freya or any other cosmic "transportation." As the chariot is primal forces controled by conscious thought.

http://www.irminsul.org/arc/017sg.html

In so much as how the chariot of Nerthus would relate to the Irminsul.

Edited by Kantzveldt
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Yes, the most likely translation is simply great or mighty pillar/column, a term of the Ingaevones.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Ingaevones

I assume you meant to post a link to the Irminones instead?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irminones

.

Edited by Abramelin
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Yes, and no doubt the info in that modern book is based on those old Dutch sources I have been quoting from.

My point was: the oldest forms of the name for Medemblik has no -B- in them.

So the oldest name of the city has never been anything like "Medeas blik", but more like "Medem lik/lek" As I read somewhere, it's obvious the -B- between -M- and -L- in Medemblik is to make the name easier to pronounce than with only -ML- .

Maybe. blik means look, which is kinda like leck, although leck seems to take me to leak, so I don't really know if blik and leck are connected, but I'm not out on Medemblik just yet, I'll sit on it for a while.

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I would be perhaps more interested in Nerthus and her relationship to sacred islands and water;

The sanctuary is on an island, peninsula, or connected with sea- trade; Nerthus on an island in the Ocean, Nærbjerg on the isolated peninsular “Holy-ness” in N. Jutland, 2 Nærth-owæ (“Nerthus-hills”) on the island of Funen; residence of a goddess in Hleiðrar on the isle of Sea-land, Niartherum on the isle of Sealand, islet Niærdholm near the coast of Skane, mythical residence of Niorðr in Noa-tun, “Naval town.”

http://www.northvegr...erthus/001.html

And so it goes on, till at last the goddess gets tired of the intercourse with the mortal beings and retires to her temple. Then immediately the chariot and the garments, and, if people may believe it, the goddess is washed in a secret lake. Slaves make service at the washing, and immediately after it they are swallowed by the lake. Hence is the origin of the mysterious terror and the sacred ignorance about what that may be which nobody is allowed to see unless he is sure to die."

This is interesting;

GMC raidho wagon

GO raidha wagon, ride

OE radh a riding, way

ON reidh riding, chariot

rad/raed wheel/vehicle

A cosmic chariot, solar chariot, the wheel of stars

A chariot of a god or goddess

Estatic journey

Rhythm and movement are important to the concept of Raidho. The sound and dance of the estatic traveler who is carried on a circular journey. The spiral journey of the sun on it's annual course from North to South and back, as in the journey of Nerthus and Freyr's processions. It is the wheeling of stars around the cosmic axis. It can be thought of as the chariot of Thor or Freya or any other cosmic "transportation." As the chariot is primal forces controled by conscious thought.

http://www.irminsul.org/arc/017sg.html

In so much as how the chariot of Nerthus would relate to the Irminsul.

Raidho - Wralda himself imo. Nerthus would likely be Irtha in the OLB.

Radien-attje, Jubmel, Vearalden Olmai or Waralden Olmai is the superior or celestial deity of the Sami, also called Jubmel or Ibmel, a parallel to the Finnish Jumala (God).

The superior deity is the ruler of the Cosmos. In his honour, the Sami erected a sacrificial pole every autumn, symbolizing the world-pillar, which was considered as a connection the World to the firmament. The pillar reached from the centre of the Earth to the fix point on the firmament - the Pole star. The superior deity was also the “giver of life” and was considered the god of fertility.

Radien-attje is often portrayed as the main figure in a Trinity, which besides him, consists by the Raedieahkka or Radien-akka (Maadteraahka, the superior mother) and their son Radien-pardne. There are critics who claim, that this Trinity is a consequence of the meeting with the Christian religion, and that it is a match to the God the Father, Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit. If this is the case, it is interesting, that the Sami have replaced the Holy Spirit with a wife. In some versions the heavenly family also include the daughter Rana Niejta. As superior deity, Radien-attje is more of an intellectual superior, as his son, Radien-pardne, performs the practical things

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raedie

Edited by The Puzzler
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Actually blik is like glitter, to shine, which sounds like it describes the statue - Medea blik might relate to the gold statue that is recalled in the links we have found. As you have pointed out, a name after a lake may be the first known name - but the OLB does tell us this, the name and place Medeasblik might not even exist anymore, but instead we have Medemblik or at one point Medelek.

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Maybe. blik means look, which is kinda like leck, although leck seems to take me to leak, so I don't really know if blik and leck are connected, but I'm not out on Medemblik just yet, I'll sit on it for a while.

Yes, the word is related to the English "leak", and we still have several old rivers here called "Leek" (pronounced like 'layk'). Also think English 'lake'

English "leak" means to spill over or something, and the Dutch river "Lek" started as a branch from the river Rhine when it burst through a bank south of Wijk bij Duurstede (first it was a trickle, but gradually the branch grew in size untill it became the main stream. The original - northern - branch of the Rhine that used to end at the west coast of Zuidholland died off).

""Blik" has no connection with this 'water thing', lol. But yes, with 'look' it of course has.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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Actually blik is like glitter, to shine, which sounds like it describes the statue - Medea blik might relate to the gold statue that is recalled in the links we have found. As you have pointed out, a name after a lake may be the first known name - but the OLB does tell us this, the name and place Medeasblik might not even exist anymore, but instead we have Medemblik or at one point Medelek.

In fact the OLB cleverly sneaks in an etymology - be it an alternative one - for the original name of the city of Medem(b)lik, and that is Medea mei lacchja / Medea may laugh.

If there had been a city before Medemblik, archeologists would have found it.

Oh, and it is not "Medelek", but either "MedeMle( c )k" or "MedeNle( c )k"

.

Edited by Abramelin
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.Yes Nerthus as Irtha makes sense, as part of the cult of Nerthus was her slaves being mysteriously swallowed away into a lake or some such.

In the midst of this stillness Irtha began to tremble as if she was dying. The mountains opened to vomit forth fire and flames. Some sank into the bosom of Irtha, and in other places mountains rose out of the plain. Aldland, called Atland by the navigators, disappeared, and the wild waves rose so high over hill and dale that everything was buried in the sea. Many people were swallowed up by Irtha, and others who had escaped the fire perished in the water.

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No that they didn't find anything yet:

Grafheuvels werden in West-Friesland gevonden bij Enkhuizen, Grootebroek, Hoogkarspel, Medemblik, Oostwoud, Wervershoof, Zwaagdijk, Andijk en Opperdoes.

English:

Burial mounds (bronze age: 3/2000 - 800 BC) were found in West-Friesland in Enkhuizen, Grootebroek, Hoogkarspel, Medemblik, Oostwoud, Wervershoof, Zwaagdijk, Andijk and Opperdoes.

Burial mound:

vogelvlucht_groot_118.jpg

http://www.westfriesgenootschap.nl/geschiedschrijving/vogelvlucht/vogelvlucht_118.php

Dwellings:

post-18246-0-81182300-1337957954_thumb.j

http://karigro.media...t/bronstijd.htm

Edited by Abramelin
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In fact the OLB cleverly sneaks in an etymology - be it an alternative one - for the original name of the city of Medem(b)lik, and that is Medea mei lacchja / Medea may laugh.

If there had been a city before Medemblik, archeologists would have found it.

Oh, and it is not "Medelek", but either "MedeMle( c )k" or "MedeNle( c )k"

.

It was a typo, sorry.

By the way, the name in West Frisian is Memelik.

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Interesting timeframe on the burial mounds, I'll check it more tomorrow.

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.Yes Nerthus as Irtha makes sense, as part of the cult of Nerthus was her slaves being mysteriously swallowed away into a lake or some such.

In the midst of this stillness Irtha began to tremble as if she was dying. The mountains opened to vomit forth fire and flames. Some sank into the bosom of Irtha, and in other places mountains rose out of the plain. Aldland, called Atland by the navigators, disappeared, and the wild waves rose so high over hill and dale that everything was buried in the sea. Many people were swallowed up by Irtha, and others who had escaped the fire perished in the water.

Yeah, we've talked about Nerthus in part -1- of this thread (or was it the Doggerland thread??), but I never thought of it as connected with your quote from the OLB.

So you're suggesting that that ritual was kind of a reenactment of the events as described in the OLB?

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Interesting timeframe on the burial mounds, I'll check it more tomorrow.

Westfriesland was one of the first inhabited areas of the Netherlands.

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Say Kantzveldt,

I remember psting about the Nerthus ritual in this thread, but also (and mostly about some "Island of the Dead") in the Doggerland thread:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=179840&st=705

If you read that thread from that point on, you will see there were still traditions concerning such an island up to modern times.

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Although I personally think that the Frisian/North German/Dutch "White Island of the Dead" is what is now the "White Bank" in the North Sea (a submerged chalk cliff, like sandstone Heligoland in the east which is also submerging) - see link former post - I found something interesting concerning such an island in connection with Nerthus:

The island Tysnes on the west coast of Norway has an interesting ancient history. People call it the Goddess Island.

The old name of Tysnes is "Njardarlog", and in prehistoric time this island was the religious center of the western parts of the country. The name Njardarlog comes from Njord, god of the sea in Norse mythology, who was worshipped for luck and wealth at the sea. Njord's name is believed to originate from Nerthus.

Nerthus was an old germannic earth- and fertility Goddess, and Goddess for peace and wealth. In prehistoric Tysnes Nerthus was worshipped, and the remains of the Goddess worship can still be found today.

The Goddess Age at Tysnes started 3500 years ago, whith the immigration of a group of foreign people, probably from Denmark. They brought their own faith with them, the worship of the goddess Nerthus.

Every spring a wagon with the goddess Nerthus was brought all over the island. At the same time all weapons were put away, and peace ruled. The Goddess was taken to Lake Ve in the center of the island, and ritually cleansed.

The ritual cleansing (or bath) was performed by slaves (without any viewers), and often some slaves drowned during the ritual. This is probably why Lake Ve even today is surrounded by a veil of mystic.

Many farms and places have their names from the pagan past:

•Lake Ve; means blessed or sacred water

•Godøy; where the Gode (priest) lived

•Lunde; sacred grove

•Hovland; here used to be a hov (=temple or a sacred place)

•Tysnes; cape of the god Ty

Across Tysnes there are many ancient sights like standing stones, stone mounds and burial mounds.

The standing stone at Todneset, in the nothwestern part of Tysnes, is three metres tall, and was originally placed in the middle of a stone circle. During the passage of times the standing stone has been moved around, and no longer stands in it's original place.

At Todneset (the name means "gathering place") there is also a small stone stone monument, where rituals of sun worship used to take place. The monument was believed to be a stone mound, but archeological excavations revealed a small stone chamber with an altar. On the floor animal bones and sea shells were found.

Every year at the winter solstice the light from the sun hits right onto the stone monument for a few minutes. All the surroundings are in the shade at the same time.

http://fireairearthw...ess-island.html

.

Edited by Abramelin
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Anyone know a good english translation? Preferably for ebook?

Edited by flashman7870
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Anyone know a good english translation? Preferably for ebook?

Of what? The Oera Linda Book??

This is about the best of any translation into English available online:

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/

But it is infested with errors and wrong interpretations.

I only hope you won't read Sutton's version: he must have been living in the Twilight Zone while writing his book about the OLB, or else he lost his ability to read.

.

.

Edited by Abramelin
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Great, now you post something French to a guy with a German name (and that could mean - SURPRISE!! - that he is a German or an Austrian).

Anyway, Spanuth was 10 times more sane than De Grave.

Spanuth has been proven wrong, true, but he was not some *_*_* basing his grand theory on crap etymology.

++

EDIT:

No, wait: you are convinced that any word from any European language can be translated by using Dutch words. OK, then show us how you are going to translate this French text into your Lego-Dutch, the oldest living language on earth. And when you did, Kantzveldt will understand it, as you once claimed people would (they never did, but who cares).

You love to do it one word at a time, now try a whole page.

This will be fun.

.

I thought there was a chance posting to a Swiss :-)

Anyway, bit frustrated you’re not able to understand? Joking

It was for information, and I wonder sometimes why you have the urge to respond in quite offensive ways.

Maybe drunk again, well better get sober.

Myths are myths.

It can make you post on forums for pages without going anywhere :-)

What do you know about the sanity of that gentleman? Not very respectfull in my opinion.

You think Latin is older than our mothertongue, but you can’t even understand Latin/Greeck?

That most be the reason! Very logical.

About the Pilars and Calk Rock and White Sand

-> a totally ridiculous relation which I’m not gonna mention is Cap Blanc Nez and Wissant

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