Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

[The Puzzler]

She grabbed trêjon to build a bridge.

Would you build bridges by mere branches, or would you use trees?

She had super-human powers, that much is obvious, she grabbed trees and pulled them out of the ground, lol.

But whatever she did or was, it were tree-trunks she built the bridge with.

I think it's easily possible to build a bridge from branches, branches are big. Could be logs even, not nec. the whole tree but larger branches, like logs.

She was trying to flee, I hardly think she tore out big trees and laid tree trunks across - she would have tore off large branches and made a bridge more like a padding to run across.

Like this, but without the time to tie them together...

A common form of lashing sticks, logs, and deciduous branches together involved the use of long reeds or other harvested fibers woven together to form a connective rope capable of binding and holding together the materials used in early bridges.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridge

[The Puzzler]

OK, then it's "loof". A perfect Dutch and Frisian word meaning "foliage".

English: "leafage".

.

Probably just leaves is fine. English imo is not a very elaborate language.

All very interesting about the Krylinger Wood too. I like the map knul posted. I note it's called bosch - bush - which may mean it was not a regular wood, but lower growth as you said.

Edited March 28, 2013 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

She ran to the elder wood and got/gripped/grabbed some branches - so she really didn't have to pull anything or rip anything out.

She probably just picked the logs/branches up off the ground. She's ran over to grab some branches and logs to make the bridge so the children can escape and to me, that makes the most sense.

Edited March 28, 2013 by The Puzzler

[Apol]

About the Kreiler/Krijl Forest/Woods (OLB: Krylwod) :

"kreupelhout", English: undergrowth, underwood, brushwood

'Kreupel' (this 'kreupel') is 'crawl' or 'wriggle'in English. Here: entangled wood/braches near the ground.

Kriel is an old Dutch/Frisian word for something small, or crawling/creeping around 'near the ground'.

crawl (v.)

c.1200, creulen, from a Scandinavian source, perhaps Old Norse krafla "to claw (one's way)," from the same root as crab (n.1). If there was an Old English *craflian, it has not been recorded. Related: Crawled; crawling.

http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none

And from Old Norse 'krafla' to 'kreupel' seems to be plausible (f <<>> p).

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In fact, that's interesting.

I knew about the Kreilerbosch from beforehand, though. But I thought that kríl.wald meant 'swamp forest' and that it may not have been related to any particular forest/bosch.

Now I understand that the meaning which lies behind is another one.

Do you think if kríl.wald is a designation that could have been applied to any bosch of the 'kreupelhout' type anciently?

Or, is the word so special that it could only have been the name of that particular former bosch?

Edited March 28, 2013 by Apol

[Apol]

She grabbed trêjon to build a bridge.

Would you build bridges by mere branches, or would you use trees?

She had super-human powers, that much is obvious, she grabbed trees and pulled them out of the ground, lol.

But whatever she did or was, it were tree-trunks she built the bridge with.

Yes, trunks of small trees.

[The Puzzler]

It could mean small wood, woods with crawling shrubs I guess OR because of the shape, a curve, it crawls along. A crawl is an elongated, pushed out shape, like a babys leg when it crawls. The exact shape I see that Kreyll is, a co-incidence, maybe.

[Knul]

Yes, trunks of small trees.

Did you notice the mistake in OLB krilwald biasten Ljudwerd instead of biwesten Ljudwert ?

[The Puzzler]

Yes, trunks of small trees.

I'm going with branches as the translation has it - trêjon - takken - branches

Using the root form of 'to take'- 'to pull off' - to create a fork, a branch - tri itself could even be part of this equation, trident, trail, trek etc.

[The Puzzler]

It could mean small wood, woods with crawling shrubs I guess OR because of the shape, a curve, it crawls along. A crawl is an elongated, pushed out shape, like a babys leg when it crawls. The exact shape I see that Kreyll is, a co-incidence, maybe.

That was a bad explanation really, more the baby rather than it's leg, I don't think I convinced myself. I know what I'm thinking but can't really find anything to verify it. A curl maybe.

Edited March 28, 2013 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

Yes, it's trees and branches. I was just working out what trêjon really means and how it might mean branches - and I did.

Anda bâma a^end trêjon waxton frügda ând nochta, thêr nw vrlêren send.

So you're saying a verb became a noun?

[Abramelin]

It could mean small wood, woods with crawling shrubs I guess OR because of the shape, a curve, it crawls along. A crawl is an elongated, pushed out shape, like a babys leg when it crawls. The exact shape I see that Kreyll is, a co-incidence, maybe.

And what about the pines growing in the area?

I wouldn't call that small trees or shrubs.

They grew there because the climate wasn't as Mediterranean as the OLB suggests it must have been 'before the bad time came'.

That's why I like archeology instead of playing Lego with words.

Another source I showed you says the word "Creil" came into existence during the time of the Franks.

Saying: much of what took place in the OLB took place long after it was supposed to take place.

.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

So you're saying a verb became a noun?

Well, it appears to happen:

DU: eten = EN: to eat / food.

[Abramelin]

And what about the pines growing in the area?

I wouldn't call that small trees or shrubs.

They grew there because the climate wasn't as Mediterranean as the OLB suggests it must have been 'before the bad time came'.

That's why I like archeology instead of playing Lego with words.

Another source I showed you says the word "Creil" came into existence during the time of the Franks.

Saying: much of what took place in the OLB took place long after it was supposed to take place.

.

From a former post about archeological research done in the former (and now submerged) Kreil Wood/Forest area:

"Stamdoorsnede naaldhout 5600 jaar oud (foto: W. Walta)

Cross section pinewood, 5600 years old (photo: W.Walta).

http://www.waddenacademie.nl/fileadmin/inhoud/pdf/01-Waddenacademie/symposium_juli_2012/presentaties_4_juli_2012/Opdebeek_presentatie_4_juli_2012.pdf

The correct translation of "naaldhout" should be "spruce".

[Apol]

Did you notice the mistake in OLB krilwald biasten Ljudwerd instead of biwesten Ljudwert ?

In fact, I didn't.

Anonymous writer around year 0:

[206/10-13] In the middle of the krílwald east of Ljvdwêrde [Leeuwarden] lies our refuge or safeguard, which one can approach only by footpaths.

I can see that if krílwald here is a proper noun, the bosch should possibly have been situated west of Ljvdwêrde.

But my opinion is that this is another reason to believe that krílwald isn't necessiraly a proper name.

I've now also found - in the relation about the conditions in Pangab - that krílwald in fact is used just as a designation for a certain type of forest:

The writings of Ljudgêrt the Gêrtman, ca. 300 BC:

[167/9-17] On the west side of Pangab, from where we come and where I was born, there the same pleasures and delights flourish and grow as on the east side. Formerly were also the same reptiles found there, but our forefathers have burnt all kríl.walda, and hunted for the wild animals so long that there are only few left.

In this sentence I also think it is about just any kríl.wald:

Apollânja about her mother Adela, ca. 550 BC:

[96/28-97/1] There came Adela. “Why do you stand and hang?” she cried, “try to yield help, and Vvralda will give you forces!” There she leapt towards the kríl.wod, grabbed alder bushes, tried to make a bridge.

But in the story below I think Krílinger wald might be a proper name, because of its situation in the area of Medemblik, and because it is named Krílinger wald and not kríl.wald:

About the end of the Magus, ca. 589 BC

[85/27-87/7] The magus reached Mêdêasblik in broad daylight and shining sun; nevertheless, his people went about boldly to assault the burgh. But as all the people had landed with the boats, our steersmen came out from the creek and shot their arrows with turpentine balls upon his fleet. ... Those who did not flee were put to death, and those who fled found their end in the pools of the Krílinger wald.

Regarding p. 206/10-13 above, it's also mentioned a linden wood around Ljudgârda:

Apollânja about her burgh Ljud.gârda, ca. 550 BC:

[107/26-33] On the south side of the outer ring-dyke Ljudgârda is fenced in by the great linden wood. Its shape is three-cornered – the broad (side) outwards so that the Sun may see therein, because there are many foreign bushes and flowers brought along by the steersmen.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Apol

[The Puzzler]

So you're saying a verb became a noun?

Well, it appears to happen:

DU: eten = EN: to eat / food.

Yeah, as I look at all the PIE words, most are a verb, that becomes a noun word.

Well, I dunno about 'most' but many.

Edited March 28, 2013 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

And what about the pines growing in the area?

I wouldn't call that small trees or shrubs.

They grew there because the climate wasn't as Mediterranean as the OLB suggests it must have been 'before the bad time came'.

That's why I like archeology instead of playing Lego with words.

Another source I showed you says the word "Creil" came into existence during the time of the Franks.

Saying: much of what took place in the OLB took place long after it was supposed to take place.

.

Yes, I like archaeology too but this OLB has led me to become a bit of an etymology nut.

I did see the part about the Franks but read it as not assurance they actually named it.

Maybe it means krall - corral, enclosure if it is a true Dutch name - which is apparently unrelated to kraal crawl, a probable English/Fryan/Norse word. This is a common theme, a different word meaning for a word that sounds the same in another language too.

Apol's above post has got me thinking that 'crawling wood' - like vines or such again now. Especially the Punjab reference. Maybe brambly growth, scrubby or vines in India - yeah I can see that.

The thing is, it might have only became known with the Franks as Creil or whatever spelling you want, but the Franks used a name in their language that it was already called by Frisians - Kril

I never said anything about trees needing to be small (recently), I just think it was actually branches she picked up, off whatever size tree.

I think crawl wood is also probably correct as it's a Proto-Germanic word - and could mean woody branches, vines, creepers, undergrowth etc.

Edited March 28, 2013 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

Yes, I like archaeology too but this OLB has led me to become a bit of an etymology nut.

I did see the part about the Franks but read it as not assurance they actually named it.

Maybe it means krall - corral, enclosure if it is a true Dutch name - which is apparently unrelated to kraal crawl, a probable English/Fryan/Norse word. This is a common theme, a different word meaning for a word that sounds the same in another language too.

Apol's above post has got me thinking that 'crawling wood' - like vines or such again now. Especially the Punjab reference. Maybe brambly growth, scrubby or vines in India - yeah I can see that.

The thing is, I also think that it might have only became known with the Franks as Creil or whatever spelling you want, but the Franks used a name in their language that it was already called by Frisians - Kril

I never said anything about trees needing to be small, I just think it was actually branches she picked up, off whatever size tree.

I think crawl wood is also probably correct as it's a Proto-Germanic word - and could mean woody branches, vines, creepers, undergrowth etc.

I didn't say the Franks gave it its name:

During the Middle Ages Creil was a hamlet on the edge of the Zuiderzee.

It also perished at this time. There was supposed to be a forest.

This Kreilerbos was probably not a forest with tall trees but

marsh overgrown with bushes. The name Creil and the naming of the streets have its origins

in the time when the Netherlands were under Frankish rule. The

At the time the Kreilerbos was owned by the noble Frisian family Galama.

And the OLB word is "Krylwod" which would be either Kreil (the -y- pronounced like -ei- in "neigh" )"or Kriel (pronounced "kreel").

"Kriel" is still a word that has to do with something small, close to the ground.

"Kraal" comes from the Portuguese language, and then from Latin.

[Abramelin]

Apollânja about her mother Adela, ca. 550 BC:

[96/28-97/1] There came Adela. “Why do you stand and hang?” she cried, “try to yield help, and Vvralda will give you forces!” There she leapt towards the kríl.wod, grabbed alder bushes, tried to make a bridge.

Apol, I have noticed that you sometimes spell the OLB -W- as -VV-.

But it really is only one letter, as you can see here:

[The Puzzler]

I didn't say the Franks gave it its name:

During the Middle Ages Creil was a hamlet on the edge of the Zuiderzee.

It also perished at this time. There was supposed to be a forest.

This Kreilerbos was probably not a forest with tall trees but

marsh overgrown with bushes. The name Creil and the naming of the streets have its origins

in the time when the Netherlands were under Frankish rule. The

At the time the Kreilerbos was owned by the noble Frisian family Galama.

And the OLB word is "Krylwod" which would be either Kreil (the -y- pronounced like -ei- in "neigh" )"or Kriel (pronounced "kreel").

"Kriel" is still a word that has to do with something small, close to the ground.

"Kraal" comes from the Portuguese language, and then from Latin.

Yes I edited my post a bit, I'm a mad editor like you - "wait for the edit". lol

No you didn't but I thought you were alluding to it.

The Kreilerbos it probably was before becoming Kryll which equalled Kylinger Wood, or Kryl bush or Kryl wood.

Crawl wood imo is probably correct. "Marsh overgrown with bushes."

Edited March 28, 2013 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

krill (n.)

1907, from Norwegian kril "small fry of fish."

http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none

Kril

Levendig, opgewonden; ook in minder gunstigen zin: ongestadig, grillig.

Lively, excited, also in less favorable sense: unstable, erratic.

Also connected with 'krioelen' = to swarm

http://gtb.inl.nl/iW...=WNT&id=M035543

P.A.F. van Veen en N. van der Sijs (1997), Van Dale Etymologisch woordenboek

kril* [levenslustig] {1562-1592} verwant met kriel

kril* [lively] {1562-1592} related to kriel

http://www.etymologi.../trefwoord/kril

.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Abramelin

[Apol]

I never said anything about trees needing to be small (recently), I just think it was actually branches she picked up, off whatever size tree.

In fact, it might have been branches she fetched, and threw into a heap, so that the children could walk on them.

[Apol]

Apol, I have noticed that you sometimes spell the OLB -W- as -VV-.

But it really is only one letter, as you can see here:

It is in fact written VVRALDA in this place (96/30-31), and in seven other places in the manuscript. The wrong thing may be that I wrote it Vvralda.

[Abramelin]

It is in fact written VVRALDA in this place (96/30-31), and in seven other places in the manuscript. The wrong thing may be that I wrote it Vvralda.

Can you give me a link to the site you are using?

I use Knul's transliteration here:

http://www.rodinbook...anscriptie.html

Or the original here:

http://www.oeralinda...boek/index.html

I think your page numbering is wrong.

.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

This is page 96 of the manuscript (according to the original numbering):

http://images.tresoa...php?p=98&pm=212

"It is in fact written VVRALDA in this place (96/30-31),"

[MS 096]

01 SKЄNHЄD HAGA -

02 NAVT MIÐ PÆRLUM - HWAND HJRA TUSKAR

03 SEND WITTER

04 NAVT MIÐ GOLD - HWAND HJRA HЄR IS BLIK

05 -KANDER

06 NAVT MIÐ STЄNA - WEL SEND HJRA AGON

07 SAFT AS LAMKES AGON ÐACH TOLIK SA

08 GLANDER ÐÆT MÆN ÐЄR SKRʘMLIK IN

09 SJA NE MЄI -

10 MEN HWAT KÆLT IK FON SKЄN - FRYA

11 WЄRE WIS NAVT SKЄNER .

12 [bLANCO REGEL]

13 JA AÐE - FRYA ÐЄR SJUGUN SKЄNHЄDE

14 HЄDE HWERFON HJRA TOGHATERA MEN

15 ЄNE ELK - HACHSTENS ÐRIA URVEN HÆVE -

16 MEN AL WЄRE HJU LEDLIK ÐACH SKOLDE

17 HJU VS DJŮRA WЄSA -

18 [bLANCO REGEL]

19 JEF HJU WYGANDLIK SY -

20 HARK AÐE - ADELA IS ÐET ENGE BERN

21 VSAR GRЄVET-MAN - SJUGUN JRÐ-FЄT IS

22 HJU HACH J- ETA GRATER ÐEN HJRA LICH

23 -EME IS HJRA WISHЄD ÆND HJRA MOD

24 IS LIK BЄDE TOSЄMINE -

25 LOK ÐЄR - ÐЄR WЄRE ЄNIS EN FЄN-BRʘND

26 ÐRJU BERN WЄRON VP JENSKE GRÆF-STЄN

27 SPRONGEN -WIND BLOS FEL - ALREK KRЄTA

28 ÆND ÐJU MÆM WЄRE RЄDALAS - ÐЄR KVMT

29 ADELA -HO STЄITST ÆND TЄMEÐSTE HROPÐ

30 HJU -TRAGD HELP TO LЄ [p. 134] NANDE ÆND WR

31 - ALDA SKIL JO KREFTA JЄVA - ÐЄR HIPÐ

32 HJU NЄI T KRYL-WOD - GRIPT ELSNE TRЄJON

.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Every original page of the MS (photo copies), including the two letters (not numbered), plus transliteration, plus translation into Dutch, English, and German (by Knul) :

http://www.rodinbook...ipt001-050.html

http://www.rodinbook...ipt051-100.html

http://www.rodinbook...ipt101-150.html

http://www.rodinbook...ipt151-210.html

++++

EDIT:

Knul, your links are messed up. I have edited this post 10 times now, but the links are not ok. Anyway, people can click on the tabs on your site.

.

Edited March 28, 2013 by Abramelin