Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

[The Puzzler]

Again... the OLB "Lumka-makia" :

Lumka-mâkja bi thêre Ê-mude to Ast-flyland

Lumkamakia, near the Eemude, in Oostflyland

I think we have located this "Lumkamakia near the Eemude" in many places already (Heligoland, Lemster - Friesland, Emden - Germany), but I think I found yet another possible location:

Westeremden (Groningen)

De plaats komt in de middeleeuwen eerst voor onder de namen Emedun (944), Amuthon (10e-12e eeuw), en Emetha (of Emethe of Emutha; 13e eeuw).Mutha betekent: monding van de rivier. Later is het voorvoegsel 'wester' toegevoegd om de plaats te onderscheiden van het Oost-Friese Emden. Als zodanig komt de plaats voor het eerst voor in 1379.

English:

The place is first mentioned in the Middle Ages with the names Emedun (944), Amuthon (10th-12th century), and Emetha (or Emethe or Emutha; 13th century). [2] Mutha means mouth of the river. Later the prefix 'Wester' was added to distinguish it from the East Frisian Emden. As such, the place is mentioned for the first time in 1379.

http://nl.wikipedia....iki/Westeremden

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fivel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fivel

In Frisian:

Dat is yn de namme fan it doarp werom te finen: e-muda betsjut "mûning fan de rivier"

http://fy.wikipedia....iki/Westeremden

Interesting to notice is that the oldest known forms of this name always have an -n- at the end.

.

I can't find it in search but thought I did mention this place too, as a possible Emude mouth, it sits right near East Flyland, when we were recently going through Lumka-Makia again, not exactly sure, I'm just back after a week of no computer, it shat itself, I had to do a complete system recovery so I'm a bit behind.

Again... the OLB "Lumka-makia" :

Lumka-mâkja bi thêre Ê-mude to Ast-flyland

Lumkamakia, near the Eemude, in Oostflyland

I think we have located this "Lumkamakia near the Eemude" in many places already (Heligoland, Lemster - Friesland, Emden - Germany), but I think I found yet another possible location:

Westeremden (Groningen)

De plaats komt in de middeleeuwen eerst voor onder de namen Emedun (944), Amuthon (10e-12e eeuw), en Emetha (of Emethe of Emutha; 13e eeuw).Mutha betekent: monding van de rivier. Later is het voorvoegsel 'wester' toegevoegd om de plaats te onderscheiden van het Oost-Friese Emden. Als zodanig komt de plaats voor het eerst voor in 1379.

English:

The place is first mentioned in the Middle Ages with the names Emedun (944), Amuthon (10th-12th century), and Emetha (or Emethe or Emutha; 13th century). [2] Mutha means mouth of the river. Later the prefix 'Wester' was added to distinguish it from the East Frisian Emden. As such, the place is mentioned for the first time in 1379.

http://nl.wikipedia....iki/Westeremden

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fivel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fivel

In Frisian:

Dat is yn de namme fan it doarp werom te finen: e-muda betsjut "mûning fan de rivier"

http://fy.wikipedia....iki/Westeremden

Interesting to notice is that the oldest known forms of this name always have an -n- at the end.

.

I think it's possible that an East Flyland was in the area of the Emden. It is East and it is a flylan, it might be the true East Flyland - a sentence part says the mother gathered all the men from Denmark and East Flyland - it kinda has me thinking these 2 places are next to each other - which also explains the Wodin thing, so....it could be worth looking to see if an Eastflyland or derivative Astflylan etc, was in the area of the Emden imo.

My computer shat itself, I had to do a complete system recovery, have to catch up a bit.

[The Puzzler]

No, I don't think it was Groningen I said, but nevertheless, the possibility it could have been an East Flyland area still remains.

PS: I didn't mean to repeat myself in the post above, I didn't realise the first post still came up.

Edited June 4, 2012 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

:-)

You all find this plausible, Greeks writing about myths in the Baltic Area?

Why not the Hellespont in Greece, more likely for a Greeck no? What are those celibrated archeologiical evidences than in the 'Far North'?

(Besides the well understated assumption that there 'has' to have been something that Homer very likely has heard of)

It might be because the Greeks were made up of these Baltic people, some of the Mycenaeans could have come from Northern Europe, the amber found in Mycenaean graves is Baltic, Mycenaean Grave Circle B contains larger boned bodies than some of the others so trade at least was going on, ample opportunity was happening for a fusion of Northern Europeans into Greece mixed with an Asiatic element, probably Hittite, and within all this remained strands of earlier known stories, legends, Gods and knowledge of the Sun and other elements seen throughout the myths - so it may be that Homer is telling stories about the Greeks, but before they were Greeks, as the Trojan War is set c. 1200BC, in Mycenaean times, we tend to place them in that timeframe, so if we do, the men of 1200BC would surely have included Northern Europeans, as I stated above, entering Greece for various reasons - it is their history, a war possibly, that did occur back in Scandinavia or Denmark, that when the men arrived in Greece, they still had the story of the war, it was retold over and over through successive generations, much like Plato tells us old stories were, that surely with time and repetitiveness gets put into new landscapes and new environments the originals are now in. It's mind-bending but I can see how it would work.

[Otharus]

A similar exercise can be done with (for example):

SEND vs. SIND

WÉSA vs. WESEN

NW/ NVV vs. NV

KÁNING/ KÀNING vs. KENING/ KÉNING

WI vs. WY

Correction:

WÉSA and WÉSEN are not two varieties of the same word, they are different inflections of the same verb.

WÉSA = wezen, zijn (dutch) = to be = sein (german)

WÉSEN = geweest, gewezen (dutch) = been (past perfect) = gewesen (german)

[Van Gorp]

It might be because the Greeks were made up of these Baltic people, some of the Mycenaeans could have come from Northern Europe, the amber found in Mycenaean graves is Baltic, Mycenaean Grave Circle B contains larger boned bodies than some of the others so trade at least was going on, ample opportunity was happening for a fusion of Northern Europeans into Greece mixed with an Asiatic element, probably Hittite, and within all this remained strands of earlier known stories, legends, Gods and knowledge of the Sun and other elements seen throughout the myths - so it may be that Homer is telling stories about the Greeks, but before they were Greeks, as the Trojan War is set c. 1200BC, in Mycenaean times, we tend to place them in that timeframe, so if we do, the men of 1200BC would surely have included Northern Europeans, as I stated above, entering Greece for various reasons - it is their history, a war possibly, that did occur back in Scandinavia or Denmark, that when the men arrived in Greece, they still had the story of the war, it was retold over and over through successive generations, much like Plato tells us old stories were, that surely with time and repetitiveness gets put into new landscapes and new environments the originals are now in. It's mind-bending but I can see how it would work.

I see ...

But wouldn't it be then more in line with the natural cause and expectations that within this 'voyage' from the far north to Greece (into the end of the mediterranean), that there have been more traces in all the in-between lying lands and coasts of the same old stories and culture coming to us directly from the alledged passing of Baltic people?

This in stead of skipping practically whole Europe and returning there via the Greeck culture/myths coming back again from the south as it is remembered now in the collective memory?

With any more local archeoligical evidences in the Baltic of this pre-Greeck civilisation, instead of alledged Baltic presence in Greeck territory?

Just a thought.

[Van Gorp]

I can't find it in search but thought I did mention this place too, as a possible Emude mouth, it sits right near East Flyland, when we were recently going through Lumka-Makia again, not exactly sure, I'm just back after a week of no computer, it shat itself, I had to do a complete system recovery so I'm a bit behind.

I think it's possible that an East Flyland was in the area of the Emden. It is East and it is a flylan, it might be the true East Flyland - a sentence part says the mother gathered all the men from Denmark and East Flyland - it kinda has me thinking these 2 places are next to each other - which also explains the Wodin thing, so....it could be worth looking to see if an Eastflyland or derivative Astflylan etc, was in the area of the Emden imo.

My computer shat itself, I had to do a complete system recovery, have to catch up a bit.

Maybe this remains ex-cathedra, but for the sake of completeness I just want to add the mouth of the river Aa.

Far fetched, I know but with a little imagination you can see it in A-muthon :-)

That there is a village Marke and the Dana's where living in the neigbourhoud of this 'French' region, I'm glad to mention.

I think we must take into account that there is a possibility for a lost Frenchman to strand on these pages.

By this way he can partake in the fun. All together now :-)

[Knul]

Amuthon is the name of the harbour of Stavoren, where the old Frisian and Dutch graves were inaugurated by lifting on a shield. s. http://images.tresoar.nl/bibl-collectie/Hermeneus/Jaargang%2059/5901/5901.pdf .

[Otharus]

'ALDLAND' in North-Holland (Den Helder)

On maps in this post, in order of appearance:

't oude Lant ~ 1657

Het Oude Landt ~ 1699

Oude Lan ~ 1750

Oude Land ~ 1792

Het Oude Land ~ 1793

fort of royal navy ~ 1867

satellite photo's

[Otharus]

[150/09]

AN BYDE SIDA THÉRE HAVES.MVDE IS ÉNE WITH.BURCH BVWED

[Ottema p.203]

dat aan beide zijden van den havenmond eene versterkte burgt gebouwd is

[sandbach p.203]

that on each side of the harbour a strong citadel has been built

[Jensma]

aan beide zijden van de havenmond is een witburcht* gebouwd

* Witburcht - onduidelijk; mogelijk afgeleid van Nieuwfries wiet = nat, dus een nat- of zeeburcht(?).

Ottema's "versterkte" (strengthened) was nothing but a wild guess. Sandbach accepted it and most later translations copied it (Overwijn, De Heer, Raubenheimer, Knul).

Jensma guessed it should be "witburcht" (water- or seaburgh), but nowhere in the whole manuscript WIT (in the meaning of water or sea) is spelled with -TH.

My guess is that it should just be "with-burgh" (annex) in Dutch "bij-burcht".

The most common spelling for "with" in OLB is "MITH": 353 times (including combinations like THÉRMITH, HWERMITH), but "WITH" is also used 16 times.

It is fascinating that the spelling with W seems to only have survived in English:

with - english

mit - german

met - dutch

med - danish, swedish, norwegian

með - icelandic

με, μετά - greek

Edited June 5, 2012 by Otharus

[Otharus]

Towards a quantitative analysis of the OLB

If OLB is authentic, it is a composition of texts by various authors, from different times and different regions.

One would expect a variety of writing style and spelling between different parts of the book.

I am testing this hypothesis and present my first results here (more detailed data available):

1. SEND / SIND = present plural of verb 'to be'

sind - german

zijn - dutch

are - english

er - danish, norwegian

är - swedish

binne - frisian

___________________________________SEND __SIND______% of exception

text before 'Ljudgert's Letter' . . 172 . . .8 . . 4%

Ljudgert's Letter (p.163-168) . . . . 0 . . 28 . 100%

text after 'Ljudgert's Letter . . . .22 . . .2 . .10%

------------------------------------------------------------------

TOTAL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 194 . . 38 . .16%

2. BERN / BÀRN = child or children

bern (s.), bern (pl.) - frisian

barn, barn - swedish, norwegian

barn, børn - danish, icelandic

kind, kinder - german

kind, kinderen - dutch

child, children - english

_________________________________BÈRN___BÀRN______%

text before 'Jon's History' . . . . 5 . . 31 . .86%

from Jon onwards (p.65) . . . . . .74 . . .1 . . 1%

---------------------------------------------------

TOTAL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .79 . . 32 . .29%

3. KÀNING (incl. 1x KÁNING) / KENING or KÉNING = king

kening - frisian

koning - dutch

könig - german

konge - danish, norwegian

kung - swedish

king - english

____________________________KENING___KANING________%

text before 'Wodin'. . . . . . .33. . . . 0 . . . 0%

Wodin to Jon (p.53-71) . . . . . 0 . . . 14 . . 100%

Jon to Gosa (p.72-142) . . . . .24 . . . .0 . . . 0%

Friso to Beden (p.144-168) . . . 0 . . . .8 . . 100%

Rika (p.189-192) . . . . . . . . 1 . . . .3 . . .75%

Black Adel (p.195-210) . . . . . 6 . . . .6 . . .50%

----------------------------------------------------

TOTAL. . . . . . . . . . . . . .64 . . . 31 . . .33%

4. NW / NV = now

nu - dutch, danish, swedish

nú - icelandic

nou - (west-) frisian

now - english

nun - german

nå - norwegian

nunc - latin

_______________________________NW___NV______%

text before 'Nyhallenja' . . . .9 . .0 . . 0%

Nyhallenja (p.33-39) . . . . . .1 . .3 . .75%

Minno to Tunis (p.39-61) . . . 18 . .0 . . 0%

Kalta-Minerva-Jon (p.61-71). . .5 . 11 . .69%

Gertmanna to Gosa (p.72-142) . 42 . .0 . . 0%

Konered to Adel (p.143-157). . .6 . .6 . .50%

Gosa's advise (p.157-163). . . .0 . .9 . 100%

Ljudgert to Rika (p.163-192) . .1 . .0 . . 0%

Black Adel (p.195-210) . . . . .3 . .5 . .63%

---------------------------------------------

TOTAL. . . . . . . . . . . . . 85 . 34 . .29%

5. WI / WY = we

wy - frisian

vi - danish, swedish, norwegian

wij, we - dutch

we - english

wir - german

við - icelandic

__________________________________WI___WY_______%

text before 'Forma Skednise' . . . 7 . .0 . . .0%

FS to Fasta (p.6-14) . . . . . . . 0 . .2 . .100%

Ewa to Horninga (p.15-44). . . . .29 . .1 . . .3%

Jolsigns (p.45-46) . . . . . . . . 1 . .2 . . 67%

Arge Tid to Formlere (p.47-99) . .61 . .4 . . .6%

Other Formler (p.100-103). . . . . 0 . .9 . .100%

Trast to Frethorik (p.104-119) . .12 . .1 . . .8%

Ljudgert's diary (p.120-130) . . .43 . .5 . . 10%

text after Ljudgert (p.130-210). .31 . .2 . . .6%

-------------------------------------------------

TOTAL. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 184 . 26 . . 12%

6. MITH / WITH = with

with - english

mit - german

met - dutch

med - danish, swedish, norwegian

með - icelandic

μετά - greek

__________________________________MITH___WITH_______%

text before rights Mother . . . . . 28 . . .0 . . .0%

Rights to Horninga (p.23-44). . . . 27 . . .4 . . 13%

Jolsigns to Tunis (p.45-61) . . . . 26 . . .0 . . .0%

Kalta-Minerva-Jon (p.62-71) . . . . 18 . . .1 . . .5%

Gertmen to Neiskrift (p.72-87). . . 31 . . .1 . . .3%

Adelbrost-Apollanja (p.87-113). . . 44 . . .1 . . .2%

Frethorik (p.113-133) . . . . . . . 54 . . .1 . . .2%

Wiljo (p.133-142) . . . . . . . . . .8 . . .3 . . 27%

Konered (p.143-157) . . . . . . . . 42 . . .1 . . .2%

Gosa to Rika (p.158-192). . . . . . 30 . . .1 . . .3%

Black Adel (p.195-210). . . . . . . 43 . . .3 . . .7%

-----------------------------------------------------

TOTAL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .351 . . 16 . . .4%

7. BURGUM / BURGA = plural of BURG; borough

burg - german

burcht - dutch

boarch - frisian

borg - danish, swedish, norwegian

borough - english

_______________________________BURGUM___BURGA_______%

text before Grevetmanna . . . . . . 3 . . . 0 . . .0%

Grevetmanna (p.5) . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . 3 . .100%

Fasta to Burg-ewa (p.14-18) . . . . 6 . . . 0 . . .0%

Horninga (p.43-44). . . . . . . . . 0 . . . 1 . .100%

Jolsigns to Wodin (p.45-60) . . . . 2 . . . 0 . . .0%

Kalta-Minerva-Jon (p.62-71) . . . . 1 . . . 1 . . 50%

Denamarka (p.79-87) . . . . . . . . 0 . . . 1 . .100%

Bruno to Gosa (p.91-118). . . . . . 4 . . . 0 . . .0%

Konered (p.143-157) . . . . . . . . 0 . . . 2 . .100%

Gosa's advise (p.158-162) . . . . . 1 . . . 0 . . .0%

Rika (p.189-192). . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . 1 . .100%

Black Adel (p.195-210). . . . . . . 1 . . . 0 . . .0%

-----------------------------------------------------

TOTAL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .18 . . . 9 . . 33%

8. NIM-MAN + NIM-MER / NIN-MAN + NIN-MER / NÀM-MAN + NÀM-MER = no man (no-one) + never

This includes varieties:

NIM: -màn, -men, -merte, -merthe

NIN: -màn, -nan, -merthe

NÀM: -mar

nimmen - frisian

niemand - dutch, german

ingen - danish, swedish, norwegian

nimmer - dutch, german, frisian

never - english

aldri(g) - danish, swedish, norwegian

______________________________NAM-___NIM-___NIN-

letters Hidde & Liko . . . . . . 0 . . .2 . . .0

p.1-6 introduction . . . . . . . 2 . . .0 . . .0

p.7-14 Forma Skednise. . . . . . 4 . . .1 . . .0

p.15 burglaws. . . . . . . . . . 2 . . .1 . . .0

p.19 common laws . . . . . . . . 0 . . .4 . . .0

p.25-26 Rjuchta Aller Fryas. . . 2 . . .0 . . .0

p.29-42 Minno, 3 Weta. . . . . . 1 . . .8 . . .0

p.47-71 Arge Tid to Jon. . . . . 0 . . .1 . . .7

p.72-87 Gertmanna to Ende. . . . 0 . . .6 . . .0

p.93 Adela's death . . . . . . . 0 . . .0 . . .1

p.97 Formlere. . . . . . . . . . 0 . . .1 . . .0

p.100 Other Formler. . . . . . . 0 . . .0 . . .1

p.103 Trast. . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . .1 . . .1

p.106-117 Apollanja-Frethorik. . 0 . . .2 . . .0

p.120 Ljudgert diary . . . . . . 0 . . .5 . . .1

p.131-163 Brokmanna-Gosa . . . . 0 . . 10 . . .0

p.168 Beden. . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . .2 . . .1

p.189-210 Rika to Black Adel . . 0 . . .3 . . .0

------------------------------------------------

TOTAL . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 . . 47 . . 12

Many interesting conclusions can be drawn from these data, but for now I will limit myself to only presenting them.

I add only this:

If OLB was created in the 19th century, the (main) author must have been extremely knowledgeable, intelligent and creative, to be able to evoke this highly sophisticated 'illusion of authenticity' (term used by Jensma). If the intension was simply to make a parody of the Bible and/or Frisian 'Fantastic' history - as Jensma suggests - this effort to add spelling variety in this way was totally out of proportion.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Otharus

[lilthor]

Pssst...Abramelin...you in there?

[Otharus]

In Greek mythology, Pheme (Greek: Φήμη, Roman equivalent: Fama) was the personification of fame and renown, her favour being notability, her wrath being scandalous rumors. She was a daughter either of Gaia or of Hope, was described as "she who initiates and furthers communication" and had an altar at Athens. A tremendous gossip, Pheme was said to have pried into the affairs of mortals and gods, then repeated what she learned, starting off at first with just a dull whisper, but repeating it louder each time, until everyone knew. In art, she was usually depicted with wings and a trumpet.

In Roman mythology, Fama ("rumor") was described as having multiple tongues, eyes, ears and feathers by Virgil (in Aeneid IV line 180 and following) and other authors. She is also described as living in a home with 1000 windows so she could hear all being said in the world. Virgil wrote that she "had her feet on the ground, and her head in the clouds, making the small seem great and the great seem greater."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pheme

Once more, a name that can simply be explained through OLB-Oldfrisan, which would change the existing etymology (i.c. make it more plausible):

FÁM = lady, sometimes translated as 'priestess' (but the Fryans hated priesthoods).

It was a highly responsible and respected position.

The term is used 143 times.

The French word for woman is derived from it: Femme (Latin: Femina), and ofcourse, Feminism.

It would totally makes sense if the Greek/ Latin Pheme/ Fame would be derived from it.

The following fragment is interesting in this context:

[154/05]

FON ALLE GRÉVA THÉR BIFÁRA HIM WÉRON. N.AS THÉR NIMMAN SÁ BIFÁMED LIK FRISO WÉST.

[Ottema and Sandbach p.209]

Van alle Graven, die voor hem waren, was er niemand zoo befaamd als Friso geweest.

Of all the counts that preceded him there was none so renowned [famous] as Friso.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Otharus

[Big Bad Voodoo]

I just read sevreal links about Oera Linda Book. Its interesting how debate is still going is this 13 century or 19 century book. Only valid doubt is so called modern language used in book. I have many questions about contest but right now Im on others thread. One day I will join this good thread.

[Otharus]

... a parody of the Bible and/or Frisian 'Fantastic' history - as Jensma suggests

More precisely:

According to Jensma, besides a parody of Frisian historiography, the OLB would be a parody of the 'denominational struggle between orthodoxy and free-thinking modernism which broke out at the end of the 1850s inside the Dutch Reformed church as well as in Dutch society as a whole'.

[Van Gorp]

Amuthon is the name of the harbour of Stavoren, where the old Frisian and Dutch graves were inaugurated by lifting on a shield. s. http://images.tresoa...9/5901/5901.pdf .

Than, should we contact the city of Muiden to clear this up? -> Guys, forget the story about Amuthon, please choosse another story on the official website and WIKI please :-)

But I'm interested to know your view about impact on Drusus and the roman castellums that are related?

Again farther to the north? Was allready very unlikely in the region of Muiden.

[Abramelin]

Than, should we contact the city of Muiden to clear this up? -> Guys, forget the story about Amuthon, please choosse another story on the official website and WIKI please :-)

But I'm interested to know your view about impact on Drusus and the roman castellums that are related?

Again farther to the north? Was allready very unlikely in the region of Muiden.

OK, I'm 'back in town' again.

As Puzz once showed the oldest name for Muiden is Amuthon.

But it is also the oldest name for Emden (Germany) or for Westeremden (province of Groningen).

And "Amuthon" means nothing more than something like "at the mouth of the river/stream".

So I expect we willl find more "Ee-mudas" which mean the same.

But we should look for one that's in East Flieland (btw, "Fly" or "Flie" is pronounced like 'flee' in English).

[Abramelin]

Pssst...Abramelin...you in there?

Not really, lol. I cannot squeeze myself through that small hole.

[Abramelin]

I just read sevreal links about Oera Linda Book. Its interesting how debate is still going is this 13 century or 19 century book. Only valid doubt is so called modern language used in book. I have many questions about contest but right now Im on others thread. One day I will join this good thread.

The L, maybe you better read that link in my signature, heh. It will take you only a month or so to wade through it...

[Abramelin]

And to Otharus: I am not going to respond to every of your latest posts for this thread will explode again, lol.

But my main point was that we should look at the syntax used in the OLB, wordorder if you like, like in Subject/Object/Verb.

Yes, I quoted Jensma, but I should have quoted either Rolf Bremmer or one of the other and older linguists who had read the OLB.

When they said that the OLB is 'too modern' or something similar, they were talking about syntax.

Like I have shown in part -1- of this thread (see my signature) the OLB uses a wordorder like we still use in Modern Dutch.

And I find it highly unlikely that that has not changed in 2600 years.

[Abramelin]

Otharus, I once showed you a link to a website (by a Heinsius) who stated that the Persian "Pharismanes" were no one else but "Friso-men".

Well, one thing is sure: this Heinsius knows about the OLB... he added the next in October 2011. My idea: he Googled "Pharismanes" and arrived at part -1- of this thread where we discussed the name and the website.

But now look what he writes about the OLB:

ABOUT THE NEEDLE, TITLE AND AUTHOR OF THE OERA LINDA BOOK

http://home.zonnet.n... linda book.htm

And look what he does with the text to 'prove' his point:

"The sentence of author "Min nôm is Frêthorik to nomath Oera Linda" is wrong. The contraction originally was tonom-ath-oer-alinda resulting in: "My name is Frederik van Adelen".

No, he is wrong himself as we can see here:

From:

http://images.tresoar.nl/bibl-collectie/boeken/oeralinda/groot/pagina.php?p=115&pm=212

And then this gem:

"Grounded on the name, sources that I know and constant changes of nature the inevitable conclusion follows that the vanished island Atlantis has been found. Positioned at the Abt between Terschelling and Het Bildt."

Again I refer to part-1- of this thread:

The OLB clearly states that Aldland/Atland:

-1- was the homeland of the Finda

-2- was too far away for the Fryans so they didn't have to wage war with these Finda

-3- was destroyed by earthquakes, erupting volcanoes, floods and fires.

The island he thinks was Aldland (or his 'Atlantis') was extremely close to the present Frisian coast: if you want, you can try to reach its former location by swimming...

It was also tiny, and most probably nothing but a sandbank that disappeared after centuries by shifting sea currents (like would still happen with other and larger Wadden islands if it wasn't prevented).

There are times I wonder how some people read a text: they see some word, and then totally forget the context.

[Otharus]

When they said that the OLB is 'too modern' or something similar, they were talking about syntax.

...

And I find it highly unlikely that that has not changed in 2600 years.

If syntax has not changed over the last 1000 years, why would it have changed in the last 2000 years?

I don't think Greek syntax has changed really either in the last 2000 years.

[Abramelin]

If syntax has not changed over the last 1000 years, why would it have changed in the last 2000 years?

I don't think Greek syntax has changed really either in the last 2000 years.

I said 2600 years because that was when the OLB is supposed to have been put on paper the first time.

And whatever text (in runes) they have found throughout (Northern) Europe, the syntax is always totally different from any modern Germanic language, including Frisian and Dutch.

[Otharus]

Otharus, I once showed you a link to a website (by a Heinsius) who stated that the Persian "Pharismanes" were no one else but "Friso-men".

A few months ago I read two of his penfruits at Tresoar.

It may very well be true that Pharismanes = Friso, but the way he 'proves' this (and his other theories) makes me doubt his sanity.

[Otharus]

I said 2600 years because that was when the OLB is supposed to have been put on paper the first time.

And whatever text (in runes) they have found throughout (Northern) Europe, the syntax is always totally different from any modern Germanic language, including Frisian and Dutch.

Well if it doesn't change in 2000 years, why would it change in 600 years more?

Runic inscriptions will hardly reflect spoken language, they will more be like code.

OLB is the only known source of prechristian 'Dutch'.

Appearantly syntax didn't change.

That some people find it hard to imagine, is not a valid argument against the authenticity.

Many people found it hard to imagine that Darwin's theory was right.

I have shown that almost all of my ancestors from seven generations back came from Westfriesland. For their ancestors it will mostly be the same. People would not go far from home and only marry someone that spoke the same language. I know that some people's ancestors are from all over the place. Their culture is really more 'bastardised', more confused, literally. Let's simply do a thought experiment. Texel; people have lived there for thousands of years. Why would syntax have changed dramatically? Children learn it in the first few years mostly from their mother, brothers, sisters. In areas where there have been many wars it may be different, but not on an island like that.

Anyway, I don't find it hard to imagine at all that the OLB-syntax is authentic.

We can disagree about that, but the point is, that the fact that some people find it difficult to imagine, means nothing at all.

[Abramelin]

I can imagine lots of things, lol, but I think we need at least a Germanic text of a similar age to be sure that the syntax stayed the same for more than 2000 years.

And, btw, it's of course not only about short texts written in runes.

=

The further back in time you go, the more Old English should resemble Old Frisian.

Well, read Beowulf or any other old English text of around the 8th century (or before) and you will see what I mean: you will recognize many Old Germanic words, but the syntax is very different.

Even the Gothic used in Wulfila's Bible (which is again another couple of centuries older than these Old English texts) is quite different from modern Germanic languages.

This was not a book with mere formulas or incantations or codes, although I should add that it is suggested that Wulfila tried to stay as close as possible to the Latin and/or Greek versions of the Bible he must have used.