Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

[The Puzzler]

Modern Frisian (Nyfrysk) is closer to English than is Oldfrisian.

But Oldfrisian is closest to

1. Dutch, then

2. German, then

3. the Scandinavian dialects, and then

4. English.

It could not be more obvious that you have never read OLB in its original language or even compared the various translations.

OK whatever. You've become too Dutch gestur.

http://web.quipo.it/...sk/language.htm

Scholars believe that at one time Frisian and Old English were mutually intelligible, but English became influenced by Norman French, and Frisian by Dutch. (Jellema xxxiv). The mechanicÕs comment about William the Conqueror can be seen as accurate to a certain extent. Old English and Old Frisian were so similar, that if it hadnÕt been for the conquering influences of other nations, the two languages would enjoy an even greater inventory of similarities than they already do.

English and Frisian are often grouped together as Anglo-Frisian (Crystal 301) however it it now believed that the hypothesis that Old English and Frisian can be derived from a single Anglo-Frisian mother tongue is an oversimplification (Tiersma 2). But even now, after centuries of language change the connection between the two languages can still be seen. Consider the following examples in which an eg in certain environments became an ei or ai in Frisian and English, but not in Dutch or German:

Frisian

English

Dutch

German

dei (F)

day (E)

dag (D)

Tag (G)

rein

rain

regen

Regen

wei

way

weg

Weg

neil

nail

nagel

Negel

Edited October 20, 2013 by The Puzzler

[Ott]

Don't worry, I know there is no spilt U's in the OLB text, there is only W - so don't waste your time, I'm miles ahead.

[Ott]

Example of Flemish (in Leuven, Belgium) who still like wordgames.

Visjes (sounds like vicious)= diminutive, plural of vis (fish).

I saw this on the window of a fish-shop.

[NO-ID-EA]

Wow.......I had not realized there was such difference of opinion between the main contributors of this thread ........no wonder there is so often what seems like bickering between you , now i understand the reason for that more , ... you are all coming from different standpoints .

i would be interested in reading the story that Knul thinks OLB is a word for word copy of . as i presume if this is the case , that will fairly wrap it up ??

[Ott]

Last week I visited Amsterdam and went to one of the biggest and most central book shops.

This is what I saw at the history department, on the mythology shelf.

When I bought my copy, in 2009, I had to order it, as no shop had it.

So why did this shop have it now?

I asked the guy from the history section.

He answered "just a coincidence", and immediately added "but ofcourse it is nonsense" (he used the word "kolder").

I asked why - if it is nonsense - it was in the history section, on the mythology shelf.

He said he refused to put it at "esoterics". (In that case I would not have seen it.)

Still, rather bizarre that it was openly displayed, not standing on its side between other books, specially if the guy from the shop who ordered it thinks it is nonsense. Why would he want to sell nonsense?

[The_Spartan]

I was going through my old posts in UM and found this post by puzzler to which i had replied too

Posted 24 May 2011 - 11:09 AM

Well, quite frankly I don't know what to think but I know I don't really even want to think about it anymore. None of it. It sends you paranoid.

Maybe that's what happened to Ottema, I don't know but with all these sorts of prophecies going on and war, etc in the world it wouldn't surprise me if some sort of pattern leads to dates of destruction, these ideas are not new.

No one wants to think that the world will end, well some do I spose. Maybe ignorance is bliss.

I'm done here, I don't really care anymore about the OLB, it's message seems to hide something no one maybe needs or wants to know.

Who knows?

that was in 2011 and she is still at it...even though she claimed that she doesnt really care about the OLB.

[Knul]

Wow.......I had not realized there was such difference of opinion between the main contributors of this thread ........no wonder there is so often what seems like bickering between you , now i understand the reason for that more , ... you are all coming from different standpoints .

i would be interested in reading the story that Knul thinks OLB is a word for word copy of . as i presume if this is the case , that will fairly wrap it up ??

I translated word-for-word part of the first chapter, which you may compare with the Dutch translation of Ottema.

Thet [het] bok [boek] thêra [der] Adela [Adela] folstar [opvolgers].

Thrittich [dertig] jêr [jaar] aeftere [na de] dêi [dag] that [dat] thju [de] folksmoder [volksmoeder] wmbrocht [omgebracht] was [was] thrvch [door] thêne [de] vreste [overste] Mâgy [Magy] stand [stond] et [het] er [er] aerg [erg] vm [aan] to [toe]. Alle [alle] stâta [staten] thêr=er [die er[ lidsa [liggen] anda [aan de] ôre [andere] syde [zijde] thêre [der] Wrsara [Wezer], wêron [waren] fon [van] vs [ons] ofkêrth [afgekeerd]* aend [en] vnder=et [onder het] weld [geweld] thes [des] Magy [Magy] kêmen [gekomen] , aend=et [en het] stand [stond] to [te] frêsane [vrezen] , that [dat] er [hij] weldig [geweldig] skolde [zou] wertha [worden] vr=et [over het] êlle [hele] lând [land] . Vmbe [om] thaet [dat] vnluk [ongeluk] to [te] wêrane [weren] hêde [had] maen [men] êne [een] mêna âcht [gemene vergadering] bilidsen [belegd], hwêr [waar] gâdurath [vergaderd] wêron [waren] âllera [alle] maennelik [mannen], thêr [die] ann=en [in een] gode [goede] hrop [roep] stande [stonden] by [bij] tha [de] fâmna [vrouwen]. Tha [doch] nêi [na] thât=er [dat er] mâr [meer] vrlâpen [verlopen] wêron [waren] as [als] thrjv [drie] etmelda [etmalen] , was [was] al [al] go=rêd [gouwraad] anda [in de] tys [war] aend [en] al=ên [al een] sa [zo] by [bij] hjara [haar] kvmste [komst] . Thâ [toen] to [tot] tha [de] lesta [laatste ]frêge [vroeg] Adela [Adela] thaet [het] wird [word], aende [en] kêth [zei]. J [jullie] alle [allen] wêt=et [ weet het] that [dat] ik [ik] thrjv [drie] jêr [jaar] burchfàm [burchtvrouw] wêsen [geweest] sy [zij]. Ak [ook] wêt [weet] j [jullie] that [dat] ik [ik] kêren [gekozen] sy [zij] to [tot] moder [moeder] , aend [en] âk [ook], that [dat] ik [ik] nên [geen] moder [moeder] nêsa [niet zijn] navt [niet] nilde [niet wilde] , thrvchdam [doordat] ik [ik] Apol [Apol] to [tot] min [mijn] êngâ [echtgenoot] jêrde [begeerde] . Thach hwat j navt nête, thaet is, that ik alle bêrtnisa nêigvngen haew, êvin as ik en wrentlike folksmoder wêsen wêre. Ik haev al=an fon aend witherfâren to sjande hwaet=er bêrde. Thêr thrvch send my fêlo sêka bâr wrden, thêr ôra navt nête. J haeweth jester sêith, thaet vsa sibba an tha ôra syd thêre Wrsara njvt aend lâf wêre. Thâ ik mêi sedsa to jv, thaet=er Mâgy se nên yne gâ of wnnen heth thrvch thaet weld synra wêpne, men blât thrvch aergelestige renka, aend jeta mâr thrvch thaet gyrich sa thêra hyrtogum aend thêra êthelinga. Frya heth sêit wi ne skoldon nên vnfrya ljvd by vs tolêta, thâ hwat haevon hja dên? hja haevon vsa fjand nêi folged: hwand an stêd fon hjara fensenum to dêiande, jeftha fry to lêtane, haevon hja Fryas rêd minacht aend se to hjara slâfonum mâked. Thrvchdam hja sok dêdon, macht Frya navt longer wâka ovir hjam: hja haevon ynes ôtheris frydom binimen, aend thaet is êrsêke, thaet hja hjara aejn vrlêren+

Het boek van Adela's aanhangers.

Dertig jaren na den dag, waarop de volksmoeder omgebracht was, door den overste Magy, stond het er erg aan toe. Alle Staten, die er liggen aan de andere zijde der Weser, waren van ons afgescheurd* en onder het geweld des Magy gekomen; en het stond te vreezen, dat hij geweldig zoude worden over het geheele land. Om dat ongeluk te weeren, had men eene algemeene volksvergadering belegd, alwaar vergaderd waren alle manspersonen, die in een goeden roep stonden bij de maagden (priesteressen). Doch nadat er meer verloopen waren dan drie etmalen, was de geheele Go=raad in de war, en alles even als bij hunne komst. Toen ten laatste vroeg Adela het woord, en sprak: Gij allen weet, dat ik drie jaren burgtmaagd geweest ben; ook weet gij, dat ik gekozen ben tot volksmoeder en dat ik niet volksmoeder wezen wilde, omdat ik Apol tot mijn echtgenoot begeerde. Doch wat gij niet weet, dat is, dat ik alle gebeurtenissen nagegaan heb, evenals of ik een wezenlijke volksmoeder was geweest. Ik heb gestadig heen en weder gereisd, toeziende wat er gebeurde. Daardoor zijn mij veele zaken openbaar geworden, die anderen niet weten. Gij hebt gisteren gezegd, dat onze stamverwanten aan de andere zijde der Wezer tam en laf waren; doch ik mag tot u zeggen, dat de Magy hun niet één dorp afgewonnen heeft door het geweld zijner wapenen, maar bloot door arglistige ranken en nog meer door de hebzucht der hertogen en edelingen. Frya heeft gezegd: wij moesten geene onvrije lieden bij ons toelaten; doch wat hebben zij gedaan? Zij hebben onze vijanden nagevolgd; want in plaats van hunne gevangenen te dooden of vrij te laten, hebben zij Fryas raad veracht en hen tot hunne slaven gemaakt. Omdat zij zulks deden, had Frya geene lust meer langer over hen te waken; zij hebben eens anders vrijheid benomen, en dat is oorzaak, dat zij hunne eigene verloren

* mistake by Ottema afgescheurd in stead of afgekeerd.

Edited October 20, 2013 by Knul

[Abramelin]

Why do I feel that seriously replying to you is an utter waste of time?

Because you are as arrogant as Otharus once was, pretending to know more than anyone else does?

[Abramelin]

However, modern standard Dutch was not used in this region in the Middle Ages, when the city was called Lintarwrde.

This is why it doesn't make sense. The end part of the word is not warden originally. The Frisians would have had therp or such a word imo. The word Leeuwarden may be a Dutch interpretation and spelling of a word that sounds the same but actually possesses a different etymology to the Frisian name of origin.

Your quote is about the first part of the name, Leu.

[Abramelin]

I was going through my old posts in UM and found this post by puzzler to which i had replied too

that was in 2011 and she is still at it...even though she claimed that she doesnt really care about the OLB.

She does care, and she knows it.

I have had the same feelings before, but then again, I return, and be as fanatic as I ever was.

Sometimes you just get tired and say things you don't really mean. I am quite sure Puzz will never really get tired of this topic.

This topic is about so many things from history, that anyone interested in history will never get tired of it.

We have talked and discussed about Phoenicians, Vikings, Germanic tribes, runes, religion, linguistics, etymology, Romans, and so on, and so on, and so on.

No other thread here encompassed that many topics.

[Abramelin]

Language is not mathematics.

Sometimes the 'double-U' was seen as one letter, sometimes as two.

Sometimes it is pronounced as in "wit", sometimes as in "ooze".

My point was that the ''double V'' was used as ONE LETTER in the OLB.

If not, explain to me why the name WRALDA was put around the Yule wheel as a word consisting of 6 letters instead of 7 letters.

[Abramelin]

The city was never called that.

Certainly not in OLB and nowhere else that I know of.

Of course it wasn't called that way. Verwijs DID call it the OLB-way because he had made a mistake translating an old Frisian text, as I have shown in part -1- of this thread. And his erroneous etymology of "Leeuwarden" (which he acknowledged to be wrong later on) showed up in the OLB as the original name of Leeuwarden.

.

Edited October 20, 2013 by Abramelin

[NO-ID-EA]

I translated word-for-word part of the first chapter, which you may compare with the Dutch translation of Ottema.

Thet [het] bok [boek] thêra [der] Adela [Adela] folstar [opvolgers].

Thrittich [dertig] jêr [jaar] aeftere [na de] dêi [dag] that [dat] thju [de] folksmoder [volksmoeder] wmbrocht [omgebracht] was [was] thrvch [door] thêne [de] vreste [overste] Mâgy [Magy] stand [stond] et [het] er [er] aerg [erg] vm [aan] to [toe]. Alle [alle] stâta [staten] thêr=er [die er[ lidsa [liggen] anda [aan de] ôre [andere] syde [zijde] thêre [der] Wrsara [Wezer], wêron [waren] fon [van] vs [ons] ofkêrth [afgekeerd]* aend [en] vnder=et [onder het] weld [geweld] thes [des] Magy [Magy] kêmen [gekomen] , aend=et [en het] stand [stond] to [te] frêsane [vrezen] , that [dat] er [hij] weldig [geweldig] skolde [zou] wertha [worden] vr=et [over het] êlle [hele] lând [land] . Vmbe [om] thaet [dat] vnluk [ongeluk] to [te] wêrane [weren] hêde [had] maen [men] êne [een] mêna âcht [gemene vergadering] bilidsen [belegd], hwêr [waar] gâdurath [vergaderd] wêron [waren] âllera [alle] maennelik [mannen], thêr [die] ann=en [in een] gode [goede] hrop [roep] stande [stonden] by [bij] tha [de] fâmna [vrouwen]. Tha [doch] nêi [na] thât=er [dat er] mâr [meer] vrlâpen [verlopen] wêron [waren] as [als] thrjv [drie] etmelda [etmalen] , was [was] al [al] go=rêd [gouwraad] anda [in de] tys [war] aend [en] al=ên [al een] sa [zo] by [bij] hjara [haar] kvmste [komst] . Thâ [toen] to [tot] tha [de] lesta [laatste ]frêge [vroeg] Adela [Adela] thaet [het] wird [word], aende [en] kêth [zei]. J [jullie] alle [allen] wêt=et [ weet het] that [dat] ik [ik] thrjv [drie] jêr [jaar] burchfàm [burchtvrouw] wêsen [geweest] sy [zij]. Ak [ook] wêt [weet] j [jullie] that [dat] ik [ik] kêren [gekozen] sy [zij] to [tot] moder [moeder] , aend [en] âk [ook], that [dat] ik [ik] nên [geen] moder [moeder] nêsa [niet zijn] navt [niet] nilde [niet wilde] , thrvchdam [doordat] ik [ik] Apol [Apol] to [tot] min [mijn] êngâ [echtgenoot] jêrde [begeerde] . Thach hwat j navt nête, thaet is, that ik alle bêrtnisa nêigvngen haew, êvin as ik en wrentlike folksmoder wêsen wêre. Ik haev al=an fon aend witherfâren to sjande hwaet=er bêrde. Thêr thrvch send my fêlo sêka bâr wrden, thêr ôra navt nête. J haeweth jester sêith, thaet vsa sibba an tha ôra syd thêre Wrsara njvt aend lâf wêre. Thâ ik mêi sedsa to jv, thaet=er Mâgy se nên yne gâ of wnnen heth thrvch thaet weld synra wêpne, men blât thrvch aergelestige renka, aend jeta mâr thrvch thaet gyrich sa thêra hyrtogum aend thêra êthelinga. Frya heth sêit wi ne skoldon nên vnfrya ljvd by vs tolêta, thâ hwat haevon hja dên? hja haevon vsa fjand nêi folged: hwand an stêd fon hjara fensenum to dêiande, jeftha fry to lêtane, haevon hja Fryas rêd minacht aend se to hjara slâfonum mâked. Thrvchdam hja sok dêdon, macht Frya navt longer wâka ovir hjam: hja haevon ynes ôtheris frydom binimen, aend thaet is êrsêke, thaet hja hjara aejn vrlêren+

Het boek van Adela's aanhangers.

Dertig jaren na den dag, waarop de volksmoeder omgebracht was, door den overste Magy, stond het er erg aan toe. Alle Staten, die er liggen aan de andere zijde der Weser, waren van ons afgescheurd* en onder het geweld des Magy gekomen; en het stond te vreezen, dat hij geweldig zoude worden over het geheele land. Om dat ongeluk te weeren, had men eene algemeene volksvergadering belegd, alwaar vergaderd waren alle manspersonen, die in een goeden roep stonden bij de maagden (priesteressen). Doch nadat er meer verloopen waren dan drie etmalen, was de geheele Go=raad in de war, en alles even als bij hunne komst. Toen ten laatste vroeg Adela het woord, en sprak: Gij allen weet, dat ik drie jaren burgtmaagd geweest ben; ook weet gij, dat ik gekozen ben tot volksmoeder en dat ik niet volksmoeder wezen wilde, omdat ik Apol tot mijn echtgenoot begeerde. Doch wat gij niet weet, dat is, dat ik alle gebeurtenissen nagegaan heb, evenals of ik een wezenlijke volksmoeder was geweest. Ik heb gestadig heen en weder gereisd, toeziende wat er gebeurde. Daardoor zijn mij veele zaken openbaar geworden, die anderen niet weten. Gij hebt gisteren gezegd, dat onze stamverwanten aan de andere zijde der Wezer tam en laf waren; doch ik mag tot u zeggen, dat de Magy hun niet één dorp afgewonnen heeft door het geweld zijner wapenen, maar bloot door arglistige ranken en nog meer door de hebzucht der hertogen en edelingen. Frya heeft gezegd: wij moesten geene onvrije lieden bij ons toelaten; doch wat hebben zij gedaan? Zij hebben onze vijanden nagevolgd; want in plaats van hunne gevangenen te dooden of vrij te laten, hebben zij Fryas raad veracht en hen tot hunne slaven gemaakt. Omdat zij zulks deden, had Frya geene lust meer langer over hen te waken; zij hebben eens anders vrijheid benomen, en dat is oorzaak, dat zij hunne eigene verloren

* mistake by Ottema afgescheurd in stead of afgekeerd.

Thank you Knul for taking the time to answer my request for the literary story..............i note gestur says that you have all had discussions on this before ,whilst i cant expect you all to go through it again ,if anyone can point me to a page where these discussions commenced , i would be interested to read them.

[Knul]

Thank you Knul for taking the time to answer my request for the literary story..............i note gestur says that you have all had discussions on this before ,whilst i cant expect you all to go through it again ,if anyone can point me to a page where these discussions commenced , i would be interested to read them.

The whole point is, that Otharus - now Gestur does not accept the evidence, that the OLB is a mid 19th century product, but still believes in the nazi ideas of Herman Wirth (1930), which in Germany has been rejected. (1934).

[Abramelin]

The whole point is, that Otharus - now Gestur does not accept the evidence, that the OLB is a mid 19th century product, but still believes in the nazi ideas of Herman Wirth (1930), which in Germany has been rejected. (1934).

I have read translated texts written in runes from the first centuries AD (Germany, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, and Frisia), and one - the Negau helmet - from a couple of centuries BC, that all use a language that doesn't resemble the OLB language one bit.

But at around the 11th to the 12th century, the Old Frisian language suddenly seems very similar to the OLB language.

And the OLB language is so much similar to 19th century Dutch that we all can read it with a little bit of effort (well, for those who speak Dutch, that is).

.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

Of course it wasn't called that way. Verwijs DID call it the OLB-way because he had made a mistake translating an old Frisian text, as I have shown in part -1- of this thread. And his erroneous etymology of "Leeuwarden" (which he acknowledged to be wrong later on) showed up in the OLB as the original name of Leeuwarden.

.

For those who can read Dutch (and yes,Puzz, I can read Dutch, lol):

[Abramelin]

I thought that the inscription on this Roman coin was kind of interesting too:

You'll see the name of the holy Roman maiden (or whatever you want to call her), "Vesta", right?

But when you read it like everyone does, you'll read "Stave":

Now who was the god that supposedly gave the name to the Frisian city of "Staveren/Stavoren"?

And then we go to "Fasta" and so on, but we have been there before.

[The Puzzler]

She does care, and she knows it.

I have had the same feelings before, but then again, I return, and be as fanatic as I ever was.

Sometimes you just get tired and say things you don't really mean. I am quite sure Puzz will never really get tired of this topic.

This topic is about so many things from history, that anyone interested in history will never get tired of it.

We have talked and discussed about Phoenicians, Vikings, Germanic tribes, runes, religion, linguistics, etymology, Romans, and so on, and so on, and so on.

No other thread here encompassed that many topics.

Well said Abe and quite right.

Quite frankly Im surprised Spartan has nothing better to do than stalk my posts from 2 years ago and make such a comment..

I'm also surprised that gestur actually 'liked' it but maybe it's not that surprising at all come to think of it...

[Van Gorp]

Another reference makes "-uurde" coming from "-voorde".

Doorwaadbare plaats aan rivier Linta®?

One example is Linter, same as unknown frisian one?

Daarom moeten we Linter eerder verbinden met Lintaruurde (uu=w), een onbekende plaats in Friesland, te verklaren als "voorde in de beek genoemd Lintara".

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linter

[The Puzzler]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-pwaVoaF1RFA/UmP3uDPNMDI/AAAAAAAAD1E/batodjscRl8/s320/%C3%BC+versus+w.jpg

I became more confused as I went along. I'm on an iPad now and will wait until I'm back at my computer to make examples later tonight.

Edited October 21, 2013 by The Puzzler

[jmccr8]

Hi Abe,

God to see you posting again I hope all is well with you.

jmccr8

[The Puzzler]

Talking of runes and making reference to rune book I have, I just found a reference to the 'old Frisian God Waldh'. This is the first time I've really read an outside source specifically refer to Wralda as a Frisian God. It also says that the Gothic rune called UL - sound UE as in ee or o with 2dots above is his rune and means a turning point.

[The_Spartan]

Well said Abe and quite right.

Quite frankly Im surprised Spartan has nothing better to do than stalk my posts from 2 years ago and make such a comment..

I'm also surprised that gestur actually 'liked' it but maybe it's not that surprising at all come to think of it...

I am not or was not stalking your posts.

What do I gain from it?

I was searching for a specific post with a map of ancient india and I happened on your post.

To say the truth, any time and every time you try to be an edo nyland, I will call your goat. for sure!

[Ott]

You've become too Dutch gestur.

Westfrisians are as Dutch as Yirrganydji people are Australian.

[NO-ID-EA]

The whole point is, that Otharus - now Gestur does not accept the evidence, that the OLB is a mid 19th century product, but still believes in the nazi ideas of Herman Wirth (1930), which in Germany has been rejected. (1934).

Knul... if OLB is a word for word copy of this "literary story" then i presume the "story" has the missing page , where it is thought the copyist turned over two pages . and will also have the missing Black Adel chapter ........is this the case ??